View Full Version : Ford giving up on cars
http://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/2018/04/25/1q18-financials.pdf
Given declining consumer demand and product profitability, the company will not invest in next generations of traditional Ford sedans for North America. Over the next few years, the Ford car portfolio in North America will transition to two vehicles – the best-selling Mustang and the all-new Focus Active crossover coming out next year.
It's like watching one of those time travel movies where you keep going back to try to fix things but you find yourself powerless to keep people from making the same stupid mistakes over and over.
Bottom line, if someone else can make cars profitably and Ford can't then they're toast eventually anyway. You can't keep running from segments because you can't make a buck there.
And it doesn't take fuel prices to bring this little truck party to a crashing conclusion. Fashion can turn on a dime and this year's ultra-popular CUV could become next year's soccer-mom minivan.
Pretty sad because we were happy to "come home" to Ford. Me to the Mustang and Missy to a new Focus ST. No way she'll settle for the mom-van version when it comes time to re-up. Ironically she fled there from Mazda because their car lineup has strayed too far from the "zoom zoom" nature that attracted us away from Ford in the first place.
As for me, maybe I'll swap out my Ecoboost Mustang for the "Last of the V8s" memorial edition Mustang just before they toss that in the heap as well.
chop456
04-26-18, 07:00 AM
I thought the "2 vehicles" part was a news reader mistake when I heard it on the radio. Obviously they're not doing as well as I thought. Thank goodness that factory that will never be built was prevented from being not built in Mexico. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
WickerBill
04-26-18, 07:20 AM
Sad day.
Interesting this would mean they're giving up on the tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of police Tauruses also. They've owned the cop car market for so long.
nissan gtp
04-26-18, 08:20 AM
Got to think when gas goes up, this move will not seem so smart.
WickerBill
04-26-18, 01:12 PM
Got to think when gas goes up, this move will not seem so smart.
My kid has a 2014 Escape with the same 2.0T engine and transmission as my 2013 Fusion. The Escape does 1.9mpg more than the Fusion. Obviously that's mostly down to tuning, but they've done some great work with the weight and shift points of their SUVs.
It's too bad they don't have the appetite to research and create a 35mpg mid-sized non-hybrid sedan. I think it would sell like mad.
Sad day.
Interesting this would mean they're giving up on the tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of police Tauruses also. They've owned the cop car market for so long.
What is funny is that Ford doesn't make a Taurus police package OR an Explorer package. They make a Police Interceptor and a Police Interceptor Utility :rolleyes:. My truck doesn't say Explorer anywhere or on anything.
Quite a few PD departments in the area have purchased F150's.
Chevy is making inroads back into the market with the updated Tahoe and Impala police packages.
When you see Ford's latest ad slick - you get the feeling they aren't looking solely at the car anymore:
http://i65.tinypic.com/2e5tixd.png
I wondered about the Police Interceptor as well. As hoary as the Crown Vic became I think Ford got a lot of mileage (so to speak) out of being the defacto police vehicle for a long time. The Explorer based Interceptor Utility now has 50% of the police market compared to 25% for the sedan so they probably see it the same as the market at large.
I'm sure that Ford figures that fuel economy isn't different enough between CUVs and cars to cause a disastrous market shift for them. I just don't believe that's the only thing that could catch them out. Fashions change. When the next generation starts to feel nostalgic for cars of their past what will the next wave of retro styling trends generate? A tribute to the Ford Freestar?
I especially don't get why they're only bringing the Focus Active - basically a jacked up Focus with body cladding. It can't be hard to also bring the regular Focus model. That opens up an option for ST and RS models, which Ford has touted as big successes in drawing younger, more affluent buyers.
opinionated ow
04-27-18, 08:47 PM
Or is it more an acknowledgement from Ford that their engineering strengths lie overseas? The European designed Fords: Fiesta, Focus, Transit, Mondeo/Fusion, EcoSport etc are excellent products whilst the American products can't be exported because they've been pretty rubbish for a long time. Look at the quality of plastics compared to any European car or the panel gaps etc.
I was shocked and a little saddened when I heard this. I don't want to see all American-owned industry die and I think this is another nail in the coffin, frankly. Certainly in the automobile manufacturing industry.
However, my first and only car was a 1982 Ford Mustang that I bought new at the end of the model year. I still lived in Cleveland then, I was 5-6 years into my working life (no college and I was 25 years old in 1982). I did not make much money, even by Cleveland standards, but it was enough to have my own apartment and buy a car, etc. Well, this car was a lemon from hell. In those days I would have never even thought to buy a foreign car even if I'd have the money. I was buy American all the way. However, something was broken on the car when I drove it off the bleepin' lot and I had to take it back 4-5 times before they fixed it. This was time off the clock from work, BTW. The first two years were okay; the second two years were spent repairing one thing after another. I'd kept up with the scheduled maintenance, this was additional stuff that broke.
I had 48 payments of $186.87/month (imagine that today) after I made the last payment (all on time and it was hard for me at the salary I earned then) the bleepin' engine blew. Seriously. Ford would have to PAY ME to ever buy another one of their cars. This incident changed my life. I called my brother to come to the dealership and pick me up (I'd taken the car there to get the bad news) and it was during the ride home I told him I was moving to NYC. I am sure he though I was joking, but six months later I was gone and I've been here ever since. I do not own a car and have never owned once since then. I did not want to be yoked to a car the rest of my life. Occasionally, I miss the convenience of having one, but I get over it.
Even with all that, I was genuinely pulling for Ford after the economy collapsed in 2008, and proud that they didn't have to take the bailout. Didn't want one of their cars, but I truly hoped they'd make it (along with Chrysler & GM). However, obviously they haven't learned a damned thing. I don't care if they frack the world, the price of oil will eventually go up again.
I keep reading that millennials don't really like or crave cars the way previous generations did. Still, most of them will probably eventually become owners. Somehow I don't think this move is going to attract them. Sad.
Mary
What is funny is that Ford doesn't make a Taurus police package OR an Explorer package. They make a Police Interceptor and a Police Interceptor Utility :rolleyes:. My truck doesn't say Explorer anywhere or on anything.
Quite a few PD departments in the area have purchased F150's.
Chevy is making inroads back into the market with the updated Tahoe and Impala police packages.
When you see Ford's latest ad slick - you get the feeling they aren't looking solely at the car anymore:
The Tahoe police package took it on the chin tonight on Live PD. A sheriff in a Tahoe tried to pull over a Civic Si for reckless operation and the guy took him on a crazy chase through neighborhoods. The guy seemed to figure out that the Tahoe lost ground on every corner and was weaving through neighborhoods until he finally lost him. The chase probably should have been ended for unsafe speeds in residential areas. They already had the license plate.
When he finally gave up he said "Piece of **** Tahoe." They cut off his sound as he appeared to add a few more choice profanities ending with Tahoe.
The Tahoe police package took it on the chin tonight on Live PD. A sheriff in a Tahoe tried to pull over a Civic Si for reckless operation and the guy took him on a crazy chase through neighborhoods. The guy seemed to figure out that the Tahoe lost ground on every corner and was weaving through neighborhoods until he finally lost him. The chase probably should have been ended for unsafe speeds in residential areas. They already had the license plate.
When he finally gave up he said "Piece of **** Tahoe." They cut off his sound as he appeared to add a few more choice profanities ending with Tahoe.
I don’t think the officer was being reasonable expecting his Tahoe to be able to stay with a Civic Si through tight neighborhood streets. How about if he was in his Tahoe trying to catch a current spec Ferrari or Lamborghini on the interstate? He would have been just a frustrated.
I don’t think the officer was being reasonable expecting his Tahoe to be able to stay with a Civic Si through tight neighborhood streets. How about if he was in his Tahoe trying to catch a current spec Ferrari or Lamborghini on the interstate? He would have been just a frustrated.
Absolutely. But that's kind of the point. There are very few scenarios that I can think of where a Tahoe is suited to be a patrol vehicle, let alone pursuit. Officer comfort and maximum utility are about it. I wonder how many departments that are choosing it are still hung up on having a body on frame vehicle.
Meanwhile it's like deja vu all over again at Ford. The Taurus is dead. Again.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-ends-taurus-production-in-chicago-as-it-prepares-to-launch-new-suvs
The Focus has been dead since last summer. There are 36 Focus ST and 10 Focus RS still on dealer lots. Then we're back to wondering why American small car buyers can't have anything nice.
Tahoe has the Police Pursuit Vehicle (PPV) and the Special Service Vehicle (SSV). Not all police packages are "pursuit" rated - and even a Tahoe PPV isn't going to match up to car when it comes to turns. I don't think they make a pursuit rated pick-up. Ford is making one - the F150 Police Responder.
That seems to be the trade off - durability and comfort VS actual performance. And most police supervisors are frowning on pursuits anymore. The cars/trucks all carry laptops of some sort. Ours also have printers for citations. Add in the video license plate readers, rear partitions, cage if a K9 unit, tactical gear bags, mounts for long guns, first aid kits, defibrillators, spike strips, portable scales for the "truck check" guys, and so on. Those Ford Interceptors get small quick.
I saw this on the Tahoe PPV spec sheet:
STABILITRAK - The stability system is capable of recognizing high performance driving with a Track Detect Mode. When continuous high performance driving occurs in 2WD, the stability system will automatically enter Competition Mode. When engaged, the message "Competition Mode" will appear in the DIC and the Traction Control OFF and StabiliTrak OFF lights will illuminate
Tahoe PPV (https://www.gmfleet.com/content/dam/gmfleet/global/master/nscwebsite/en/Home/Vehicle_Search/Specialty_Vehicles/SpecialityVehicles/02_pdfs/NewerPDFs/2019_Tahoe_PPV_2WD1.pdf)
Competition Mode sounds like a video game option.
I've also heard some liability speculations about using a non-pursuit rated car/truck for pursuits - should it somehow end badly. Not sure if it is just an abundance of caution - but I know some agencies prohibit officers assigned to some of the larger trucks from engaging in a pursuit. The concern even extends to parts - I had trouble convincing some higher ups that putting non-pursuit rated snow tires on my fire marshal SUV was acceptable. The truck is an Ford Interceptor SUV with OEM pursuit rated tires - but I don't pursue anyone. :rolleyes:
Competition Mode sounds like a video game option.
I've also heard some liability speculations about using a non-pursuit rated car/truck for pursuits - should it somehow end badly. Not sure if it is just an abundance of caution - but I know some agencies prohibit officers assigned to some of the larger trucks from engaging in a pursuit. The concern even extends to parts - I had trouble convincing some higher ups that putting non-pursuit rated snow tires on my fire marshal SUV was acceptable. The truck is an Ford Interceptor SUV with OEM pursuit rated tires - but I don't pursue anyone. :rolleyes:
I'm surprised that they turn stability control completely off. I would think that rollover would be a big enough concern in those full sized SUVs that they'd maintain some level of stability control.
I'm always interested to read the MSP police vehicle evaluations.
https://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123--16274--,00.html
I notice that the '18 model Tahoe in their test went into partial power mode after seven laps due to transmission overheating. Wonder if that's what the deputy experienced.
Pursuit or not; body on frame; SUV or sedan - those don't seem to be the big issues on patrol cars.
I think the Michigan review shows what I've seen - most departments won't look at an "import" or "foreign" car. It is always Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Even for trucks. They rarely look at them even for unmarked or detective cars. Motorcycles - yes.... patrol cars - no.
Our Water Department purchased a Toyota Tundra and even that raised some eyebrows. :saywhat:
I suppose there are some exceptions - I think Connecticut SP have used Mazdas.
There are other options:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ubR6hzYT04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbPxa0NnCow
WickerBill
03-06-19, 10:01 AM
But don't you think if England could make a decent domestic car, the police forces there would use them nearly exclusively?
But don't you think if England could make a decent domestic car, the police forces there would use them nearly exclusively?
Well there is the...:confused: I see your point. :D
Perhaps, but they don't seem to stick with any one model. BMV, Volvo, Merecedes, Skoda, Range Rover, Fiat - see them all.
What you see here is everyone buys the same car or package - then everyone has the same problem at the same time. Latest for the Ford Interceptor SUV recall is "rear suspension toe link fracture may result in noise, unusual vehicle handling characteristics, or difficulty controlling the vehicle" :thumbup::thumbup:
Pursuit or not; body on frame; SUV or sedan - those don't seem to be the big issues on patrol cars.
I think the Michigan review shows what I've seen - most departments won't look at an "import" or "foreign" car. It is always Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Even for trucks. They rarely look at them even for unmarked or detective cars. Motorcycles - yes.... patrol cars - no.
Our Water Department purchased a Toyota Tundra and even that raised some eyebrows. :saywhat:
I suppose there are some exceptions - I think Connecticut SP have used Mazdas.
There are other options:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ubR6hzYT04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbPxa0NnCow
One of the few disappointments on our UK trip was that all the police cars had ordinary sirens instead of the old two-tone horn sound that I grew up hearing on UK TV shows.
I think most politicians and local administrators know that anything not built in the US would bring major backlash. Even a Toyota built in the US would probably have to have a big "Made in America" sign on the side of it.
Looking at the vehicles eligible on that criteria it seems like the Highlander could be a contender. But to be competitive in that market it seems like Toyota would have to put the effort into a special police vehicle package and be ready to accept thin margins on it. I'm guessing that Toyota doesn't see enough potential in that market to be worthwhile at this stage. Maybe in five years.
One of the few disappointments on our UK trip was that all the police cars had ordinary sirens instead of the old two-tone horn sound that I grew up hearing on UK TV shows.
Perhaps a visit to NYC in the future?
Could the sound of sirens for emergency vehicles in NYC change? (https://pix11.com/2019/02/13/could-the-sound-of-sirens-for-emergency-vehicles-in-nyc-change/)
A bill before the New York City Council would require that all sirens transition over a two-year period to alternating high and low, two-toned signals. It would be similar to those in use in many European locations. Mount Sinai ambulances already use the new siren.
Perhaps a visit to NYC in the future?
Could the sound of sirens for emergency vehicles in NYC change? (https://pix11.com/2019/02/13/could-the-sound-of-sirens-for-emergency-vehicles-in-nyc-change/)
Sounds like another political yahoo dreaming up solutions based on a very limited understanding. Maybe make them put pillows over the sirens after 10PM.
I don't know if there's any research showing that the old hi-low horn creates any less noise pollution. I have seen claims that when you switch to something people aren't accustomed to they get confused and don't know how to react.
Maybe they could study reducing the volume of the siren but making it much more directional so that the volume in the path is the same. And then add the mother of all air horns to get the problem traffic out of the way. Not sure if police vehicles have room for a much more directional siren, though.
The Rumbler sirens are an attempt to create a more noticeable signal - it is at a lower decibel and a lower frequency which generates a "feel" for it more than the high pitched wail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93vN8AS4jHY
There are so many different siren sounds available now - and everyone has their own preference. I've read different studies - but those are just as varied.
Personally - I think the train horns are effective. :rofl::rofl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt647-VV8vY
Maybe a train horn and the giant car plow from Mythbusters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djlLrKhyNrU
Holy crap. They've actually gone and done it.
Back story because I don't think I mentioned this in a thread here. A while back Ford said that they were going to introduce a new "Mustang inspired" SUV to be called the "Mach 1". Mustang purists were outraged because even a fast electric SUV still has no business being associated with Ford's seminal pony car. "Ok, then we'll call the the Mach E," says Ford. "Whew, that's a relief," said Mustang purists.
But what Ford didn't say is that they're actually going to call this electric Explorer with Mustang taillights the "Mustang Mach E" complete with pony emblem. :eek: :cry: :shakehead:
1012
I have nothing against the concept of an electric Mustang if it's a pony car. But there is no intersection between the sets "SUV" and "pony car."
The sad truth is that Ford ruins every brand that they create. This is really a modern Thunderbird but they already ruined that one. So now we have a "Mustang" that is an electric mom-van.
TravelGal
11-15-19, 10:57 AM
Holy crap. They've actually gone and done it.
The sad truth is that Ford ruins every brand that they create. This is really a modern Thunderbird but they already ruined that one. So now we have a "Mustang" that is an electric mom-van.
Yep. :cry:
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