The Generator Blues

[nrc]

Make me think of Gatemouth Brown's rendition of "Ventilator Blues".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFX6M0_LR_U


When your spine is cracking and your hands, they shake,
Heart is bursting and you butt's gonna break.
Your woman's cussing, you can hear her scream,
You feel like murder in the first degree.
Ain't nobody slowing down no way,
Ev'rybody's stepping on their accelerator,
Don't matter where you are,
Ev'rybody's gonna need a ventilator.

We had a wind storm Sunday that took our power out. The power company said that resolution for our neighborhood might not come until Tuesday so I dug the generator out of the garage. No start. I went through all of the troubleshooting and I'm thinking that the problem may be that only running the thing three times in eight years without oiling the cylinders as prescribed for long term storage may have done it in. It was spitting oil into the air cleaner. Or maybe it's just my old man noodle arm. In any case, I'm done with this one. I'm going to give it to my brother in law if he wants to fix it.

We ended up trashing about half the stuff in the fridge and putting the rest in a cooler out on the deck since it was around freezing anyway. Our fireplace insert managed to keep things at above 60 in the house for 24 hours even without the blower running. The good news is that power was restored earlier than expected.

A generator isn't useful if I can't count on it so my two pronged plan is to get one that has electric start and store it in the shed instead of the garage. Electric start means that I don't have to worry about noodle arm (or just being away if Missy ever needs it). Storing it in the shed means that it will be more accessible. I can use it for lighting and power tools during outdoor projects and that will help make sure that long term storage doesn't become an issue.

So I'm thinking an electric start Inverter generator around 3000/3500 Watts to run the fridge, a fan for the fireplace, a few lights and some chargers. Anyone have experience or suggestions? It looks like Honda is the reputation leader but I'm still bitter and I'd like to hear whether the price premium is really worth it.

[SteveH]

What about Generac (http://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators#?cat=37&cat=214&cat=217&cat=249)?

I don’t know anything about generators so maybe they aren’t a good choice, but they aren’t Honda so that’s a plus. Didn’t they sponsor CART, possibly at Road America.

[nrc]

Generac is what I had. Not a lot of shopping went into that one. Last one on the shelf during a power outage back in '10. I wouldn't rule it out. It worked fine until it didn't and like I said I can't be sure it's not my own fault for not following storage directions - even if I think they're a bit impractical for the average homeowner who just wants these things to work when they need them.

This looks like it's in the space I'm thinking about.

http://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/portable-generators/iq-series/iq3500

[gjc2]

I believe Generac makes some propane powered units. In the days after Hurricane Sandy back in 2012 gasoline was hard to come by, but propane was available (as was diesel). Also, I think the propane units are easier to start and quieter.

[nrc]

Good point. I've seen some models that are duel fuel and it also looks like they're run longer on 20 pound propane tank than a tank of gas.

Champion brand seems to get good reviews but I'm not familiar with them.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champion-Power-Equipment-Dual-Fuel-3400-Watt-Electric-Start-Portable-Inverter-Generator-with-192cc-Engine-100263/206842512

[TravelGal]

A friend lives in Northern New Jersey. Power goes out several times a year for various reasons. She has a propane generator. I just left her a message to find out the make the model.

Seeing the "still bitter" comment brought back pages of posts from 7th gear. Yes, Honda leaving was the death knell but do remember that TravelGuy was a Honda exec. I heard the story from their side daily. "CART changes engine specs with not enough lead time" was how they saw it, as did Pook. He went back to the owners. He begged them to reconsider. They didn't budge. He went back to Honda to ask for flexibility. Honda felt they had a signed a contract and shortening development time would not allow them to produce a quality product. They were not about to go racing with an inferior effort. Pook went back to the owners. He said Honda would have no choice but to leave. They didn't budge. Honda left. It was like death in Torrance that day. CART had betrayed them. They were devastated. Not only that they endured the blame and vitriol. As you saw, it took many years before HPD would produce another engine for the series. Even then, there was no facility-wide celebration after a Honda win as there had been in the CART days because the spirit of cooperation was gone. Now it was just business. And that, dear friends, explains why IndyCar is so different from CART. The spirit is gone. Now it's just business. My apologies to Richard for the massive thread hijack.

[cameraman]

Our generator is a diesel the size of a semi and it can power a small town. So it was highly ironic when the relay in the basement decided to explode. It only destroyed the power feed to the emergency circuits. So the lights were on but everything on the emergency circuits was ****ed....

:flaming:

[TravelGal]

Reply via email from NoJersey friend, "Generac is the brand. It’s a whole house one, and depending on what you want to run in an outage decides the wattage you need. I do not have my stove, AC, or microwave, washer or dryer connected to it. Everything else is connected.
$7500. " Bought a couple of years ago. She loves it.

[nrc]

Thanks, TG. I've eyed those Generac whole home systems as an investment for for a future place that we're planning/hoping for down the road. For now I'm just sticking with a smallish portable generator.

Sorry, I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to TravelGuy. I've got plenty of bitterness to go around for all the manufacturers and owners in that debacle.

[Elmo T]

Thanks, TG. I've eyed those Generac whole home systems as an investment for for a future place that we're planning/hoping for down the road. For now I'm just sticking with a smallish portable generator.


A few thoughts between what I've seen from the emergency services and thru the Building Department at work:

1. The Honda inverters are really nice - we $$ have a variety $$ of them we use $$ with our $$ Hazmat Team. They $$ are reliable $$ and quiet.

2. We see lots of the Generac whole house generators installed in the area. Where available, they tie into natural gas. We aren't San Fransisco, so it is unlikely we lose gas service. There is a transfer switch so it is a seamless transition and you don't have to be home. A friend who installs them said to NOT look at it like a hot water heater or something else permanently tied to the house. If you move, you can just break it down and haul it away. Minus of course the transfer switch.

If you go portable - think about what all you really need to power. When the power goes out, you'll probably want to power more than you think now. And do it safely - run cords around judiciously.

Location is also an issue. You need to have a safe area where exhaust fumes don't blow in - garages are bad of course.

Also - and I found this the hard way - remember if you put it in the shed, you'll have to get out of there in 12" of snow.

Lastly, make sure the generator will run long enough. I bought a cheap Sears unit - only has a 2 or so gallon tank. You don't want to be up 3 times during the night.

[nrc]

Excellent points, Elmo. The haul back from the shed in a snow or ice storm would be no fun. Thinking about it, it kind of makes sense - I'll keep it in the shed during the summer months where I can get use of it for outdoor projects and keep it running regularly. I usually stuff the shed with yard stuff during the winter anyway so it would make sense to bring it back to the garage for winter.

On capacity, the 3250 unit we have/had did fine for the critical stuff. Biggest lesson I learned there was that extension cords have to be sized properly to get full capacity. A 100 foot 16 gauge extension cord will not power a 1200 watt microwave. It's funny when you find out that stuff you learned back in school actually applies in the real world.

[TravelGal]

Sorry, I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to TravelGuy. I've got plenty of bitterness to go around for all the manufacturers and owners in that debacle.

No worries, mate. I didn't see disrespect at all. Maybe I'm the only person left that doesn't take offense at every word uttered by everyone else. It's just that once a decade or so, I try to set the record straight, even though no one will believe me. Anyway, I totally agree that there is plenty of bitterness to go around. I haven't forgiven Kevin Kalkhoven! Even though I could see on his face at Long Beach the year before he sold that he was "done" with the series.

[nrc]

Well, well, well. I had this foolish notion that I would take my time and shop for just the right thing but Mother Nature had other plans. Last week a line of thunderstorms came through and the power went out again. I gave the old generator a few pulls just to see if warmer weather might have cured it but no such luck.

The power company was calling for power to be back in eight hours but we were looking at the same scenario as last time around, thunderstorms followed by winds that made repairs difficult or unsafe. So I thew my plans in the trash and checked to see if anyone had something in stock that would meet my minimum requirements - plenty of capacity and electric start. Home Depot had one 7k watt Dewalt with electric start in start. So I ran out and grabbed it. Or rather pushed, pulled, and dragged it.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-7-000-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Electric-Start-Portable-Generator-DXGNR7000/206069299

As I enter our neighborhood I hear a notification on my phone and I know what it must be - Missy texting to let me know that the lights are on.

Sigh. Ok, so I don't mind the rushed purchase too much. It turns out that it is a Dewalt branded Generac product. This doesn't bother me too much because as mentioned, I think my Generac problem is that I didn't follow the long term storage instructions.

This checks the main boxes: electric start, plenty of power, and plenty of run time. It's probably more power than I'll need unless I get a transfer switch installed. 11 hours at half load is plenty since I doubt that we'll use half load overnight.

The only downside is that an inverter model would have cut the noise down a bit. This has an "idle control" option that reduces to idle when there's no load, but it's really for work site applications where there's no load when tools aren't running.

So far the only thing about it that I don't care for is the fact that you have to actually connect a wall wart charger to it to charge the starter battery. I suppose the plus side to this is that you can connect it and charge from grid power when it's not running. But there's no guidance on how long to charge it to top it off after a start, only a warning not to charge it for more than 48 hours.

It sure is sweet just pushing a button and hearing it start. I plan to store it in the shed during the summer with a sheet to track last start date to make sure that I keep running it regularly. I'll haul it up to the garage as part of my Fall/Winter routine. It has nice big wheels so it's not too bad to move around even though it's a beast. Hopefully I can get by with starting it up and putting it away with some fuel stabilizer in December and pulling it out in March if I haven't had to use it.

[chop456]

I wouldn't let a string trimmer sit for any length of time with gas in it, let alone a sparkly new generator. Assuming you're able to buy ethanol-free gas somewhere near you (we have to leave the county), use it. It's better for your lawnmowers, etc., anyway. At the end of the season (is there a generator season? :D ), run a can of the super-duper shelf stable gas through it, and let it run dry. Start it up using the magical gas, too. See what the manual says, but I always remove the spark plug and put a squirt of Marvel Mystery Oil or similar into the cylinder then manually turn the engine over a few times to coat it before replacing the plug. Nice thing about the canned gas is that you can store it inside without the stank.

[nrc]

Good points. I use the pre-mixed canned gas/oil mix in my chainsaw. It's pricey but worth it to not worry about fuel quality or mix accuracy. Sounds like a good idea to run the generator empty and then run some of the 4 cycle canned/stabilized gasoline through it before the winter and keep some on hand for startups.

[nrc]

We had a live test already. Power went out again earlier this week. When we first moved into this house we had these frequent power outages and then power company went on a big tree trimming binge and it got a lot get better. Seems like they need to get the chain saws out again. At this pace the generator will pay for itself in one summer just from avoiding spoiled food.

It powered the fridge and all the lights I cared to plug into it and was only at a quarter load on the meter. The only puzzler is that our 1250W microwave would only run for 15 seconds and then shut off. I'm not sure if the problem is that the power isn't clean enough or if there's too much voltage drop over the extension cord. It's listed as using 12.3 amps. I tried it on a 25ft cord rated at 13 amps and a 100ft cord rated at 15 amps with the same result.

Next time I'm running it I'll probably carry the microwave out and plug it in directly to eliminate the extension cord from the equation. I figure I'll want to get a power conditioner before I plug the TV into it, but I don't want to get one that will handle the microwave if it's the extension cord.

[nrc]

Well, we're certainly getting our money's worth on this purchase. I don't know what happened. It's like someone flipped a switch and our grid went to hell. My old generator died because it went unused for a couple of years and now this one is getting exercise practically monthly. Every time the wind blows we're out.

Can I just say that a day long power outage projected to go through Thanksgiving is very inconvenient? :mad:

Oh, and following up on the microwave - no go. It does the exact same thing even plugged directly into the generator. So it's not that the load is too high for the cord. It's that the microwave is evidently not satisfied with the dirty power from our generator. From what I've read cheap, stupid, microwaves work fine. It's the fancy ones that are picky about their power diet.

[WickerBill]

The wind you're getting was pretty crazy here yesterday. My power blipped but a friend a couple minutes down the road was out for hours on end. Good thing it was 50 degrees and not 5.