Race Discussion

[Hard Driver]

Bahrain was a real race. Feel bad for Charles LeClair, he had it in the bag. Ferrari choked this weekend, but interesting to see if they have the speed advantage going forward.

[SteveH]

One of the best/most entertaining races in some time. I hope the season follows suit.

[WickerBill]

Apparently he lost a cylinder. That'll do it.


If Sainz can get his luck turned around, McLaren really looks like they could challenge for 4th.

[TedN]

Agree that this a great race but oh so heartbreaking for Leclerc. Vettel will have his hands full this year. Couple of observations:

1.) Really enjoyed Karun Chandhok's explanation and demonstration of how this year's changes to car's rear wings is affecting passing. On last year's cars, the air coming off a leading car's rear wing dropped down and hit the trailing car's front wing causing disturbance and 50% loss of front downforce (I think that was the number). This year, the cars have a higher rear wing which directs the air over top of the trailing car. This should result in much more passing

2.) For the first time (I believe), TSN showed the F2 sprint race live which was fantastic. As a bonus, we had a Canadian driver, Nicholas Latifi to cheer for.

Ted

[devilmaster]

2.) For the first time (I believe), TSN showed the F2 sprint race live which was fantastic. As a bonus, we had a Canadian driver, Nicholas Latifi to cheer for.

Ted

We have a canadian in F1 to cheer for! :tony:;)

[TravelGal]

Anybody watching these? I am as homework for Monaco. Announcers sure do shout a lot. Not a lot of reason to most of the time. At least not in China. I've decided I like LeClerk. Root for the underdog. Kinda cool Hamilton won both the 900th and the 1000th though.

[WickerBill]

Yes I watch every race. There's just not a lot to report, except Tool of The Week goes to Kvyat for taking out an entire team in 100 meters.

[datachicane]

I've enjoyed the last couple of seasons, and this one's off to a great start. Not certain why there's not more discussion here. Bahrain was a heckuva race.

[TravelGal]

I've enjoyed the last couple of seasons, and this one's off to a great start. Not certain why there's not more discussion here. Bahrain was a heckuva race.

Bahrain I really liked. So at least I'm not totally crazy. Thanks.

[cameraman]

Bit of late post race news

Gasly was out with a broken drive shaft. No damage to the power unit.
Ricciardo gets a three place grid penalty at Barcelona for his brain fade.

[datachicane]

Ricciardo gets a three place grid penalty at Barcelona for his brain fade.

Apparently, those mirrors will never work. :tony:

[devilmaster]

Gotta be honest, I'm starting to have a new favorite driver.

Lando, this colt 45 is for you. :thumbup:

I love how he just saunters up at the 6th minute and signals the crew to not say anything...

Keep him away from the torpedo and he just has been driving smart so far, and getting points....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdW1mkscd4

[WickerBill]

That was great. Good personality, likes to laugh, pretty quick? I may join you...

[TravelGal]

Gotta be honest, I'm starting to have a new favorite driver.

Lando, this colt 45 is for you. :thumbup:

I love how he just saunters up at the 6th minute and signals the crew to not say anything...

Keep him away from the torpedo and he just has been driving smart so far, and getting points....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdW1mkscd4

:laugh::laugh: I agree with Matt on Kubica though. Good grief.

[devilmaster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owYsnGbpAJA

video can get a bit loud.

some background:

Lando's iracing team (lando, max verstappen, and some esports drivers) was racing the Iracing 12 hours of bathhurst. It was a big online event back in February 2019, something like a couple hundred teams iirc. His teammate Kerkhof was driving and was spun out during the race and crashed hard. that ended their race.

They decide to go have a fun race. Lando gets the lead, and around the chase corner, Verstappen does a Verstappen and dive bombs into the side of Lando, where he makes the comment "charlie isn't happy" (whiting had not passed away yet). Kerkhof and Max battle away allowing Lando to get the lead on the mountain straight where they all get 3 wide, with Lando in the middle and max is on the inside grass coming up to quarry bend.

Finally, Lando decides to try the WTF1 100% force feedback challenge. (that video below).

I'm really getting behind the kid. :thumbup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpTAJCW1Bbg

[devilmaster]

I'm really getting behind the kid. :thumbup:

I'm such a jinx. JHC. :irked:

[devilmaster]

:rofl::thumbup:

[Pilgrims Drop]

That's it... I'm done with F1 [/endofdiscussion]

[WickerBill]

Vettel was also given two penalty points on his license for correcting his car and keeping himself out of the wall.

Brilliant.

[Elmo T]

You can see the car yawing through the grass and there were zero ways to bring that car to a halt before it reentered the track.

A few years back we took the kids to Montreal for long weekend. Not race weekend - but it was a couple weeks after. We walked the entire circuit and TV makes that place look fairly wide. It isn't - it is crazy narrow in many places and the walls are extremely close. Given Vettel's entry speed, no control on the grass, and the wall on exit - it is amazing he kept it off the wall. And not sure Hamilton would have been able to avoid contact had Vettel clodded the wall. :saywhat:

[Hard Driver]

So according to the stewards, Vettel did regain control and glanced in his mirrors to see Hamilton, as he released the wheel angle faded out to black him. The unanimous decision by the stewards was Vettel could have made decisions that would not have violated the rules and chose poorly.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

Looks pretty close to me. I mean, if you slide off the track, you generally will lose a position. And you do see him look in his mirror and ease the wheel. But then again, does that count as one move?

[WickerBill]

Looks pretty close to me. I mean, if you slide off the track, you generally will lose a position. And you do see he look in his mirror and ease the wheel. But then again, does that count as one move?

I'll never understand it when sports legislate to the nanometer when the 10,000 foot view is clear.

What's clear is that Vettel was far enough ahead that he had a moment and retained his position. What's clear is that you pretty much have to come to a complete stop to get passed in that section of the track. What's clear is that watching it without slow motion, it's just automobile racing - you can't even call it a "racing incident" because there was no collision; in fact Hamilton didn't even have to flat spot his tires.

But when you watch a thousand slow motion replays and then *judge a driver's intent* when you've had 10 minutes with slomo and the driver had four milliseconds, you are altering the point of the sport itself.


and I can't stand Vettel. Much prefer Hamilton. But this is about the sport itself at this point.

[opinionated ow]

I'll never understand it when sports legislate to the nanometer when the 10,000 foot view is clear.

What's clear is that Vettel was far enough ahead that he had a moment and retained his position. What's clear is that you pretty much have to come to a complete stop to get passed in that section of the track. What's clear is that watching it without slow motion, it's just automobile racing - you can't even call it a "racing incident" because there was no collision; in fact Hamilton didn't even have to flat spot his tires.

But when you watch a thousand slow motion replays and then *judge a driver's intent* when you've had 10 minutes with slomo and the driver had four milliseconds, you are altering the point of the sport itself.


and I can't stand Vettel. Much prefer Hamilton. But this is about the sport itself at this point.

They've got the same crap going on with Rugby League in Australia at the moment. Whenever the onfield ref has to make a call that's slightly contentious it gets sent to Sydney where some bloke with 1,000 tv screens takes 5 minutes to decide if something was or wasn't a try or whatever other thing they're adjudicating. It's great except there's no way that the player oculd make that decision at the true speed of the incident.

[chop456]

https://youtu.be/haqpopZyvwc


https://youtu.be/BGzDkb3UW0w


No penalty. Precedent. That's Vettel's win. Period.

[Hard Driver]

https://youtu.be/haqpopZyvwc


https://youtu.be/BGzDkb3UW0w


No penalty. Precedent. That's Vettel's win. Period.

I'm convinced

[devilmaster]

Jesus H Christ. Did they hire the great Brian brainfart to be head steward?

[cameraman]

Ricciardo was completely off the track when he passed Kimi. All four wheels off on a straight section of track. Kimi was on the right edge of the track and Ricciardo passed him on the right! There's never been a more deserved track limits penalty in the history of track limits.

[WickerBill]

What are your thoughts on the McLaren chassis? Are they as good as Red Bull but down on (ironically) power? Some weekends it seems they're easily the measure of the RB except in the speed traps...

[SteveH]

What are your thoughts on the McLaren chassis? Are they as good as Red Bull but down on (ironically) power? Some weekends it seems they're easily the measure of the RB except in the speed traps...

then there is this....

Verstappen tells Honda: Red Bull need more power (https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/41294/verstappen-tells-honda-red-bull-need-more-power/)

[SteveH]

Marko on Honda power (https://mobile.twitter.com/tgruener/status/1143910171342753792?s=21)

[cameraman]

No further action from the stewards. Max wins.

a very good race

[TravelGal]

No further action from the stewards. Max wins.

a very good race

:thumbup::thumbup: I just finished watching it and I knew I'd get the answer if I came to OC. Thanks cm. I was on the edge of my seat for the last 15 laps. I thought he had no chance. Could hardly believe my eyes as the intervals fell. Best race (and the qualifying as well) that I've seen this year.

[Gopeddle]

I think the drive of the day was by Sainz. Even though he wasn't on the tube you could watch his progress on the leader board listing and his pace was remarkable. From 19th to 8th was a great showing. I know it's a British broadcast and all, but the announcers do seem to give Lando a lot more credit and respect than they do Carlos. They're both doing a great job, I'd just like to see Sainz get a bit more credit for the job he's doing. Any credit he does get from Crofty and the lot seems to be an afterthought. Although I must say that Brundle is a fan. Maybe I'm just being a bit sensitive because I like Carlos and think he got a raw deal from Red Bull. He was the equal of Max when they raced together at Toro Roso. I think he's better than is perceived by listening to the talking heads.

Even though I really don't like Zak Brown, I worked with him and saw some very unsavory aspects of his personality, I think the McLaren turn-around is solid and the credit must go to Brown. With their drivers and the car performing well the future is look up for the team.

[WickerBill]

As a McLaren fan, it is pretty much amazing to see the cars actually passing others on the track for the first time in a few years.

- I'm sure people think McLaren is upset about the switch from Honda right now, but I'm not positive they are. That split exposed that McLaren was a disaster even without Honda, and that's what they've been fixing. At this point though, Ron Dennis is right - you can't win the title as a customer team anymore. I'd love to be proven wrong...

- Red Bull must be sick to their stomach about picking Gasly instead of Sainz. Gasly looks completely lost. Either that or Gasly is pretty normal, and Verstappen is superman, and Ricciardo was almost superhuman to mostly keep up with him.

[Hard Driver]

Dang,, F1 finally had a great race. I guess Mercedes not dominating makes for better racing. Good job to Max.

[devilmaster]

Yep. I'll sit back and watch an F1 driver practice on his home rig while he streams to twitch.... :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2vj6_McAK8

[TravelGal]

Not much F1 discussion going on but I have to chime in to say that I thought Hockenheim was maybe not the "best" race ever, from the obliterated start to 7 cars retiring but certainly held my interest. Kvyat called it a nightmare with some black humor thrown in. You never knew what was going to happen next. :eek:

[opinionated ow]

Not much F1 discussion going on but I have to chime in to say that I thought Hockenheim was maybe not the "best" race ever, from the obliterated start to 7 cars retiring but certainly held my interest. Kvyat called it a nightmare with some black humor thrown in. You never knew what was going to happen next. :eek:

I tried to watch the highlights package which is all we get now (after F1 being on free to air television for 40 years it's now only on pay tv, something that pretty much nobody in this country has). It was impossible to work out what was going on.

[indyfan31]

Not much F1 discussion going on but I have to chime in to say that I thought Hockenheim was maybe not the "best" race ever, from the obliterated start to 7 cars retiring but certainly held my interest. Kvyat called it a nightmare with some black humor thrown in. You never knew what was going to happen next. :eek:

I have to agree, it was certainly the most entertaining race of the year. 3 drivers with a chance to win the race throw it away in almost the same way. :eek:

[WickerBill]

Am I the only one who absolutely loved the oily wet drag strip penalizing mistakes?

Drench all runoff areas past the kerbs from now on.

[gerhard911]

Am I the only one who absolutely loved the oily wet drag strip penalizing mistakes?

Drench all runoff areas past the kerbs from now on.

This an excellent idea and points to why I think so many drivers crashed out Sunday. They have become used to throwing their cars off track with basically zero consequence. Sunday's conditions imposed very severe consequences that I wish were there all of the time.

[nrc]

From now on the curbs will be painted red and white with ketchup and mayonnaise.

[chop456]

From now on the curbs will be painted red and white with ketchup and mayonnaise.

Completely on board if we can go with Sriracha instead of ketchup.

[Elmo T]

This an excellent idea and points to why I think so many drivers crashed out Sunday. They have become used to throwing their cars off track with basically zero consequence. Sunday's conditions imposed very severe consequences that I wish were there all of the time.

Didn't we have a track sprinkler thread years back?

We've had some entertaining races this year. The cars may not be equal, but changing conditions and other factors even things out and let new talent shine.

[dirtyboy]

Didn't we have a track sprinkler thread years back?

We've had some entertaining races this year. The cars may not be equal, but changing conditions and other factors even things out and let new talent shine.

Doesn't Formula E have some type of fan vote? Lets do the same with the sprinklers. I bet they'd be on at every race.

[devilmaster]

Didn't we have a track sprinkler thread years back?

We've had some entertaining races this year. The cars may not be equal, but changing conditions and other factors even things out and let new talent shine.

Bernie had said a few years ago that he wanted something to this effect to liven things up a bit.

But this will always be the battle - the 'sport' of it, vs the entertainment factor. Gawd, think of all the things CART did over the years to try and make it more 'interesting' or 'eggciting'.

F1 will have new regs in 2021, but then someone will figure it out better than the others, and dominate again. People have forgotten about the Ferrari years, or when races could & would only have 6-8 finishers, with cars 5 to 10 laps down.

Technology is better, the cars last now, and except for a bum year for williams, almost all of the cars remain on the lead lap or 1 lap down. There is still disparity, but I see comparisons to this year's Merc to Brawn's dominance in 2009. They ran roughshod over the pack in the first few races, but other teams are catching up - notably red bull.

[Lux Interior]

Great race and that point Williams scored is huge.

[TravelGal]

That one (Hungary) reminded me of a lot of IndyCar races I've seen. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[devilmaster]

That one (Hungary) reminded me of a lot of IndyCar races I've seen. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

It was a decent race imo. That leaders battle was a chess match, and there were battles down the order but of course they weren't shown. The bulls are coming....

[WickerBill]

No, the bulls are not coming. One of them is coming. One of them is dazed and confused and can't pass a Racing Point.

[devilmaster]

No, the bulls are not coming. One of them is coming. One of them is dazed and confused and can't pass a Racing Point.

Although they've tried to keep the rumours at bay by saying he's safe till the end of season, I'm betting against that...

[Rus'L]

Although they've tried to keep the rumours at bay by saying he's safe till the end of season, I'm betting against that...

The only thing that might save him is they have nobody else in the pipeline.

[devilmaster]

The only thing that might save him is they have nobody else in the pipeline.

I can see another Kvyat/Gasly swap like a couple years ago, and both Helmut and Christian have now come out and said he needs to pick it up.

On another topic of silly season, Bottas said that he has been working on a plan B and plan C, just in case Ocon takes his spot.

[nissan gtp]

Bottas to RBR maybe. Wouldn't be a terrible move for him or RB.

[TravelGal]

It was a decent race imo. That leaders battle was a chess match, and there were battles down the order but of course they weren't shown. The bulls are coming....

I agree about the chess match. That was fun to watch. The only thing that kept me from fast forwarding through the second half.

[devilmaster]

Gasly swapped with Albon from Toro Rosso.

[cameraman]

It is a week out but the forecast is for rain all weekend at Spa...

[datachicane]

Criminy- Verstappen breaks his front suspension and then promptly stands on it up Eau Rouge. Judging by his hand motion, surely he realized he'd lost his steering? :eek::confused:

[TravelGal]

Criminy- Verstappen breaks his front suspension and then promptly stands on it up Eau Rouge. Judging by his hand motion, surely he realized he'd lost his steering? :eek::confused:

Red mist changing to orange fog?

[WickerBill]

It was a pretty happy lap 1 for this observer. :)

[pfc_m_drake]

Bottas to RBR maybe. Wouldn't be a terrible move for him or RB.
I was actually hoping for this. When Mercedes wouldn't even let Bottas have fastest lap at Silverstone after getting screwed by the safety car earlier in the race, it was clear to me that Bottas is to Mercedes and Hamilton as Barrichello was to Ferrari and Schumacher.

Would have loved to have seen Bottas at RBR next year, but alas.

[TravelGal]

I was actually hoping for this. When Mercedes wouldn't even let Bottas have fastest lap at Silverstone after getting screwed by the safety car earlier in the race, it was clear to me that Bottas is to Mercedes and Hamilton as Barrichello was to Ferrari and Schumacher.

Would have loved to have seen Bottas at RBR next year, but alas.

Agreed. I'm sure he thinks so also. There was a certain resignation in his voice when interviewed after Spa. I felt sorry for him.

[WickerBill]

Personally can't imagine why RBR or anyone would give him a shot. Nothing personal, I really like the guy, but I think he's in the bottom half of drivers as far as skill/quality goes. I didn't even understand how he got the Mercedes drive to begin with - because he was better than Bruno Senna and equal to an old, never-quite-the-same Massa at Williams?


Upper tier:
Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Vettel, LeClerc

Good tier:
Sainz, Hulkenberg, Norris, Russell, Perez

So-so tier:
Bottas, Magnussen, Kvyat, Albon, Raikkonen

Peter Principle tier:
Stroll, Kubica, Gasly, Giovinazzi, Grosjean


I just don't think you can convince me that Bottas would regularly outperform anyone in the upper two tiers.

(For the record, I think movement is possible in this list - I think Sainz, Norris, Russell, Albon, and even Gasly could move upwards, and I think anyone, over time, can move down)

[indyfan31]

Well, that took a little longer than I thought it would:

Haas part ways with title sponsors (https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.haas-part-ways-with-title-sponsors.2prgGDi2hL6JTYo1OnkLvY.html)

[devilmaster]

Well, that took a little longer than I thought it would:

Haas part ways with title sponsors (https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.haas-part-ways-with-title-sponsors.2prgGDi2hL6JTYo1OnkLvY.html)

Haas was probably waiting for some of the last missed payment.

[pfc_m_drake]

Agreed. I'm sure he thinks so also. There was a certain resignation in his voice when interviewed after Spa. I felt sorry for him.It gets worse. After undercutting Lewis in Singapore, Bottas just told to slow down while running in clean air in order to make sure that he stays behind after Hamilton's pit stop.

Slow down in clean air :shakehead:

[pfc_m_drake]

Personally can't imagine why RBR or anyone would give him a shot. Nothing personal, I really like the guy, but I think he's in the bottom half of drivers as far as skill/quality goes. I didn't even understand how he got the Mercedes drive to begin with - because he was better than Bruno Senna and equal to an old, never-quite-the-same Massa at Williams?


Upper tier:
Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Vettel, LeClerc

Good tier:
Sainz, Hulkenberg, Norris, Russell, Perez

So-so tier:
Bottas, Magnussen, Kvyat, Albon, Raikkonen

Peter Principle tier:
Stroll, Kubica, Gasly, Giovinazzi, Grosjean


I just don't think you can convince me that Bottas would regularly outperform anyone in the upper two tiers.

(For the record, I think movement is possible in this list - I think Sainz, Norris, Russell, Albon, and even Gasly could move upwards, and I think anyone, over time, can move down)Too long of a discussion to have on a message board, but I put your entire so-so tier above most of the drivers in your upper two tiers.

Hamilton and Verstappen are excellent.
I don't get the love-lust for Ricciardo. Vettle's always been overrated for my money (as was Schumacher).
Evidently nobody thinks much of Hulkenberg at this point (though I like him a lot).

As a side comment, I also don't get the love affair with Ocon either, but maybe next year he'll show me that he's worthy of the absolute-world-beater title that everybody has hung on him.

[Hard Driver]

It gets worse. After undercutting Lewis in Singapore, Bottas just told to slow down while running in clean air in order to make sure that he stays behind after Hamilton's pit stop.

Slow down in clean air :shakehead:

Because they had poor pit strategy and Ferrari undercut them. But that was such an incredibly boring race. I found it funny they spent most of the broadcast covering cars not even in the points because it was the only place anything interesting was going on.

[indyfan31]

Because they had poor pit strategy and Ferrari undercut them. But that was such an incredibly boring race. I found it funny they spent most of the broadcast covering cars not even in the points because it was the only place anything interesting was going on.

Made even worse was the fact that Hamilton did nothing after being gifted the position. Bottas stayed within a second or two of him the rest of the race.
That said, the fights going on in the mid-field were pretty entertaining.

[TravelGal]

It gets worse. After undercutting Lewis in Singapore, Bottas just told to slow down while running in clean air in order to make sure that he stays behind after Hamilton's pit stop.

Slow down in clean air :shakehead:

To our point, pfc, I thought it was pretty obvious at the first turn in Monza that Bottas made sure Hamilton could get past him. Honestly, I slept through most of this race. One loses motivation to watch when team orders are so obvious and, yeah, it was pretty boring.

[WickerBill]

Things I don't understand about the Russian GP:

1. Why did Ferrari meddle? Whatever happened to "whoever leads lap 1"?
2. Why is Vettel such an insufferable Multi-21 jerk?
3. Why aren't the pits closed during a VSC?
4. Is McLaren switching back to Mercedes right as Mercedes isn't dominant anymore the most McLaren thing ever?

[Pilgrims Drop]

Things I don't understand about the Russian GP:

1. Why did Ferrari meddle? Whatever happened to "whoever leads lap 1"?
There was an agreement in place for Lec to let Vet use his slipstream to come up and pass if possible in order to ensure that the Mercs were at best 3-4 going into turn 1. They were supposed to switch back soon after. As far as I understand it from VETs standpoint was that
a. LEC didn't keep up with VET
b. HAM kept pace a little too well
c. But who knows what the agreement really was... this is just the rumours...

2. Why is Vettel such an insufferable Multi-21 jerk?
The Multi-21 jerk is actually WEB, at least according to Christian Horner who has said in several interviews that VET said it was payback for WEB pushing VET towards the wall at the start of the previous years final race at Brazil forcing VET to brake, loose positions and later spin after being punted by Senna the lesser.

3. Why aren't the pits closed during a VSC?
No idea but as the VSC is meant to keep things as near status quo as possible it's not a bad idea and I think it's coming with the exception for clear visual damage such as a flat or broken front wing... but it's the FIA so who knows...

4. Is McLaren switching back to Mercedes right as Mercedes isn't dominant anymore the most McLaren thing ever?
Yep... if there is foot of their own they can shoot, they'll do it

[cameraman]

Is McLaren switching back to Mercedes right as Mercedes isn't dominant anymore the most McLaren thing ever? Even a slightly down on power Merc is vastly better than a Renault especially as Renault isn't to keen on competition from its customer teams.

[WickerBill]

Even a slightly down on power Merc is vastly better than a Renault especially as Renault isn't to keen on competition from its customer teams.

Well, considering they haven't beaten a customer team since the days of Fernando, and everyone assumed jettisoning Red Bull would make that happen this year, but it isn't... I kind of understand why.

[TravelGal]

At least I didn't fall asleep this weekend. All that shouting at the beginning set the tone for an interesting race. :laugh: I rather like LeClerk but I was glad he got his *** handed to him by the stewards. Hard to believe they were going to consider that shunt a racing incident.

From the F1 site: "They deemed Leclerc to be “predominantly” at fault for the incident and handed him a five-second time penalty as well as two penalty points on his license." What does "on his license" mean? Off the year's championship points or??

[SteveH]

At least I didn't fall asleep this weekend. All that shouting at the beginning set the tone for an interesting race. :laugh: I rather like LeClerk but I was glad he got his *** handed to him by the stewards. Hard to believe they were going to consider that shunt a racing incident.

From the F1 site: "They deemed Leclerc to be “predominantly” at fault for the incident and handed him a five-second time penalty as well as two penalty points on his license." What does "on his license" mean? Off the year's championship points or??


https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/Penalty_points

[TravelGal]

https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/Penalty_points

:eek::eek: Serious though punishment deferred unless there are a lot more points, so not serious. Except I did notice this: Sergio Pérez and Marcus Ericsson are so far the only drivers to incur penalty points in all five seasons since they were introduced.