Penske to buy Indianapolis motor speedway

[devilmaster]

And it ain't April 1st.

:eek:

[devilmaster]

Seriously, if oreo or robin or anyone was writing the definitive book on the split, today is the final chapter.

[indyfan31]

I found it hard to believe . . . but


Racer (https://racer.com/2019/11/04/breaking-hulman-and-co-sells-ims-indycar-to-penske/)

[WickerBill]

Does this mean I can go back?


Haven't stepped foot in since September 1995, after basically living there every May until then...


I need some die hard splitter advice

[rabbit]

Wow. Just. Wow.

[Elmo T]

We've been waiting for "blow your socks off" news for a long time and we finally have it.

[SteveH]

damaged goods

[G.]

Is a Penske Racing League going to be better than what exists now?

[gjc2]

damaged goods

This is huge.
Damaged goods? Maybe, but if anyone can turn it around. . . . . . .

[WickerBill]

The only reason it needed selling is because it was damaged goods. If ol Cocaine Nostrils had run it like a business, IndyCar could have surpassed F1. That sounds like fantasy now - but let's not forget their individual trajectories in the early/mid 90s. CART expanding overseas, racing in places F1 raced (or making Bernie piss himself about keeping races on the calendar so IndyCar didn't pick them up and put on a much better show), getting Mansell, Senna tested (albeit for leverage), the mix of tracks was outstanding...


Damaged goods get sold. Crown jewels don't. Unfortunately, it's no longer a crown jewel.

[Al Czervik]

Is a Penske Racing League going to be better than what exists now?

Depends. If the intent is to grow the series, there may be some hope. If it stays all about Indy, nothing will change.

[Al Czervik]

Does this mean I can go back?


Haven't stepped foot in since September 1995, after basically living there every May until then...


I need some die hard splitter advice

Wait to see if you can find an org chart for Penske Entertainment. If you see the last name Hulman, George, Gunter, or Krisiloff with a title above "Assistant Groundskeeper" or "Lot Attendant" it is a good idea not to get too emotionally involved.

[Chief]

Does this mean I can go back?


Haven't stepped foot in since September 1995, after basically living there every May until then...


I need some die hard splitter advice


I was thinking the same my friend....the 24 year CIVIL WAR just ended.

As soon as the deal is inked, FIRE Brain Barnhart and all the Hulman rubes and footnote the IRL in all history books as a failed experiment. THEN, I'll make it a point to return.

We win, CART wins...may be the greatest day in auto racing history. To all our friends who have gone to heaven hoping this day would come...hallelujah! May the Hulman family choke on their new found riches and burn forever in hell.

[Napoleon]

Holy ****!!!!

[SteveH]

Holy ****!!!!

Hey Nappy nice to see you back. Stick around

[chop456]

Wait to see if you can find an org chart for Penske Entertainment. If you see the last name Hulman, George, Gunter, or Krisiloff with a title above "Assistant Groundskeeper" or "Lot Attendant" it is a good idea not to get too emotionally involved.


This.

If he intends to eviscerate the organization, jettison every idiot, dump every dog***** track and attempt to build something reminiscent in concept of what used to be, there's a chance. If anything from the current regime remains, there's little point.

[Napoleon]

Hey Nappy nice to see you back. Stick around

Thank you, and I should.

When I heard the news I thought in this order: 1, HOLY ****!!! 2, I need to text my brother this, and 3 I need to post "HOLY ****!!! on Off Camber.

[Napoleon]

So how is the Track Forum types taking this?

[opinionated ow]

This.

If he intends to eviscerate the organization, jettison every idiot, dump every dog***** track and attempt to build something reminiscent in concept of what used to be, there's a chance. If anything from the current regime remains, there's little point.

To be fair, the only IRL track on the schedule is actually Texas Motor Speedway. Hopefully means a few more decent ovals because it will get promotional support and maybe 20-25 races. That would be an improvement too.

I mean that's not to say there aren't changes i'd make. i mean I want Milwaukee back-the week after the 500. But the tracks is the least of the issues.

My question is this: will there still be hybrids? With a Penske injection is it necessary?

[stroker]

Somebody needs to find out if Defender ate a pistol.

[SteveH]

This.

If he intends to eviscerate the organization, jettison every idiot, dump every dog***** track and attempt to build something reminiscent in concept of what used to be, there's a chance. If anything from the current regime remains, there's little point.


Roger will soon be 83. It’s entirely likely that he will never live to see it return to prominence in his lifetime, no matter how successful he is. It won’t happen overnight and he’s going to age quite a bit in the next 10 years. But at least there’s a chance, the status quo was a flat line at best.

[Napoleon]

Somebody needs to find out if Defender ate a pistol.


Am I sick to have laughed at this?

[nrc]

Wow. So ten years after we lost, it turns out that we won. Well, Penske won. But the Holmans lost, which is a win in my book.

They trusted the family jewels to a moron and he lost them.

[Napoleon]

Wow. So ten years after we lost, it turns out that we won. Well, Penske won. But the Holmans lost, which is a win in my book.

They trusted the family jewels to a moron and he lost them.

I would not say that. IMS did not just fall into his lap. We have no idea what he paid. Of course, he has been on the better side of deals most of his life (though I would guess the loser on some). We will see, but at least it is out of the Holmans hands.

[Napoleon]

Does this mean I can go back?


Haven't stepped foot in since September 1995, after basically living there every May until then...


I need some die hard splitter advice

Me either, but now I am willing to go back (and any IndyCar race- I have been to none at all since CART went away)

[devilmaster]

So how is the Track Forum types taking this?

I went there today for the first time in probably almost 15 years.

Even an hour after the breaking, already 12 pages and a definite mix of every conceivable response from never going again to good for penske.



.
.
.
.
.
Then I showered.

[SteveH]

I would not say that. IMS did not just fall into his lap. We have no idea what he paid. Of course, he has been on the better side of deals most of his life (though I would guess the loser on some). We will see, but at least it is out of the Holmans hands.

According to this maybe $2 billion

https://racer.com/2019/11/04/miller-the-biggest-and-best-story-in-50-years/

:eek:

[nrc]

According to this maybe $2 billion

https://racer.com/2019/11/04/miller-the-biggest-and-best-story-in-50-years/

:eek:

Now he just needs to sell voting shares to the other team owners. :gomer:

I will admit that I did some surfing today to drink IRL fan tears. Mmmmm. Delicious.

As for going back. We’ll see. They have some work to do fixing the product. Let me know when they’ve crushed the last crapwagon.

[stroker]

Do you think somebody has told Tony George how much money he'd have if he hadn't created the IRL?

[rabbit]

This all makes me think of the old Danny Sullivan quote about RP always having a chair when the music stops. Well, it took almost 25 years, but the music finally stopped. And guess who has the chair.

[devilmaster]

Do you think somebody has told Tony George how much money he'd have if he hadn't created the IRL?

I think the sisters had that well in hand.

I wondered about clabber girl then googled and found they sold out 8 months ago for 80 million.

They were hurting big. Well, big for a family that had money galore, but big nonetheless

I'll probably pay a little more attention to this offseason, see where it goes. Maybe i'll give some cursory looks in on races next season.

But I suspect that's about as far as i'll go. The love is dead gone and buried.

I differ with Chief and Spicoli though... nobody won. Everyone lost. Even Penske - he might have bought Indy, but it isn't the Indy that was. Its a fixer upper, and maybe just a money pit. But he's the only one who could truly take this on, so good luck to him.

[Napoleon]

According to this maybe $2 billion

https://racer.com/2019/11/04/miller-the-biggest-and-best-story-in-50-years/

:eek:

Even $1B sounds high to me. At $2B you would have to clear $140m a year to get just a 7% return.

[gjc2]

I wondered about clabber girl then googled and found they sold out 8 months ago for 80 million.


Who is "clabber girl"?

[SteveH]

Do you think somebody has told Tony George how much money he'd have if he hadn't created the IRL?

Well maybe at the upcoming Thanksgiving dinner the sisters will ask that question.

[Al Czervik]

According to this maybe $2 billion

https://racer.com/2019/11/04/miller-the-biggest-and-best-story-in-50-years/

:eek:

Probably off by a factor of 5 - 10.

Most successful private businesses sell for 2 - 3x earnings. Add in a premium for the unique-ness of the opportunity. Subtract a little if it is an all cash deal. My generous estimate is between 200 - 400 million (400,000 tickets x $100, 35 million in TV revenue are the biggies)

For a data point, Clabber Girl is expected to generate 70 - 75 million in revenue and sold for 80 million.

[devilmaster]

Who is "clabber girl"?

The baking powder company that was the source of the hulman fortune. They owned that for 100 years or more give or take.

And what was said to nappy earlier goes to you all. Nice to see a few names again. Please all come back now, you hear?

[Napoleon]

Probably off by a factor of 5 - 10.

Most successful private businesses sell for 2 - 3x earnings. Add in a premium for the unique-ness of the opportunity. Subtract a little if it is an all cash deal. My generous estimate is between 200 - 400 million (400,000 tickets x $100, 35 million in TV revenue are the biggies)

For a data point, Clabber Girl is expected to generate 70 - 75 million in revenue and sold for 80 million.

This was along the lines of what I was thinking

[KLang]

Gave up years ago. Not sure if I can bring myself to care again. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Penske has in mind.

[Elmo T]

Interesting photo from breakfast today - just posting link and not fiddling with getting the photo to show...

IMS Instagram Photo - Breakfast Meeting (https://www.instagram.com/p/B4fNUZPAYAU/?utm_source=ig_web_options_share_sheet)

[TravelGal]

Here's an article from Hemmings. It's a bit of a digression from the thread but the pictures will knock your socks off. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/11/04/the-last-time-the-indianapolis-motor-speedway-changed-hands-it-was-a-dilapidated-wreck/

[Mary]

I'm speechless. Not really surprised that Penske bought it, rather that the Hulman-George family sold it. Mary Hulman-George died about a year ago, I'd bet they started seriously thinking about finally cutting their losses then.

I actually watched some Indycar races this year; it wasn't horrible and I genuinely enjoyed the 500 (only the second one I watched since 1995) but I'm just not really that interested. I've stuck with F1 and after an away period of 5-6 years after Earnhardt died caught up with NASCAR again but the TG connection just kept me away from Indycar, even after the indy wars were over.

I remember seeing Carl Icahn on CNBC once talking about IIRC, Chrysler or some other auto mfg., and saying that if he bought it he'd hire someone like Roger Penske to run it because Icahn thought The Captain was a great manager (while admitting that management was not one of his strengths). The Indy 500 is still Indy and even though I think the IRL races were worthless, that really doesn't matter to the people whose faces are on the trophy. It won't matter to posterity, either--they will still be Indy 500 winners. Penske may increase the value of the 500 if he makes the series worth something too, but I'm not sure that they'll ever get back to where they were pre-split. Society is different now and Penske is too old (not dissing old people; I'm gonna retire in 2020, but lets be real--he doesn't have 25 years to make this right again). This probably needs a Roger Penske a couple of generations younger that the real one (RP in 1975, for instance). Even 1995 RP would be better.

I rambled on a lot for someone who was speechless. :confused:

Mary

[SteveH]

https://mobile.twitter.com/A_S12/status/1191758471772946433

[Ankf00]

I differ with Chief and Spicoli though... nobody won. Everyone lost. Even Penske - he might have bought Indy, but it isn't the Indy that was. Its a fixer upper, and maybe just a money pit. But he's the only one who could truly take this on, so good luck to him.

will never return to what was possible in the early 90's unfortunately, but depending on the terms he got could be a nice get

also, I'm kind of sad it's over. b/c screw them.

[datachicane]

Ca. 1996 datachicane would be absolutely thrilled.
Ca. 2019 datachicane feels like he just got the very best possible autopsy results following the surprise exhumation of a long-dead friend, who is still long dead.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5_toSk-UN6gwPYaS16-GXQFzqHWwJJ0sDpKEJ7XBJheFWYUUuHuDepeiYRog903lxHric 3Mg56ZqNJe5fF0zTX_xVpXuFqMkJ16nauD2icZGgB1kg_SAjx0 Tz3KMEo6bneRIsIzA7zwLIUxhVVh-Yc0jwsdNII3rRiLXP2D0SeDPO-73xU5es1ljgIqG50p0liz6IPtpqHc_RAqSgnHWKw7CVGgx41c9 L1pt4KT6jlZ5ruWzQquwj-oJSTUz-QWNdzqi9Vc4TLOBliF9yB1VbXYez0liGakDnDHkg_7bdAw7QUE Sxue1XPxM2SrkwoTUANqjjPYlA-RVUY3LkfSjNJwxNnHHM1Xyz7pHCZ4g3vS-lbT1pICTlkYvzKozoE07j_8v3kK_XNZuqbqm_IIbeUtO01DfqO b8jof8aZLVlvYlswYmfoX-XJDmIWHyFpjSbAQj8B-X5KukuRTrtpKLUyOitGE3vtayiHYZQ17_bIdMa-fN9yYcxnYqw6YkWY1LxOoRy5U4J6-8feQVRfD4bEEklVjDCqqfZjl6mKvlp_qND_7eOIcoXjKHgaxDw Ymi_8APBgQa_yregYpsZ-OhUttWGM2R9RQFgI4NKMOmJjDWrQ7vV3rEyZ0cj-oT4TwvORO7GGHyuS9y2b3u66zbonSi1PU-cPOD9QHp9BJ3Nna7lQYJnSIE_PaE=w300-h326-no
Still dead, just like this guy.

[Wheel-Nut]

Roger will soon be 83. It’s entirely likely that he will never live to see it return to prominence in his lifetime, no matter how successful he is. It won’t happen overnight and he’s going to age quite a bit in the next 10 years. But at least there’s a chance, the status quo was a flat line at best.

Maybe he is going to "will it" to Foyt.?!

[stroker]

Maybe he is going to "will it" to Foyt.?!

I'm thinking he's giving his kids a "dynasty" opportunity as a last gift before he's gone--a challenge for them to see what they can do to repair the damage done to AOW in the 90's.

[chop456]

Ca. 1996 datachicane would be absolutely thrilled.
Ca. 2019 datachicane feels like he just got the very best possible autopsy results following the surprise exhumation of a long-dead friend, who is still long dead.


Yep. :thumbup:

[nrc]

Do you think somebody has told Tony George how much money he'd have if he hadn't created the IRL?

I hope he finds out when the sisters deduct the difference from his share.

[nrc]

But I suspect that's about as far as i'll go. The love is dead gone and buried.

I differ with Chief and Spicoli though... nobody won. Everyone lost. Even Penske - he might have bought Indy, but it isn't the Indy that was. Its a fixer upper, and maybe just a money pit. But he's the only one who could truly take this on, so good luck to him.

Exactly. I had a naive view of it as "real racing, real sport" - something about passion and competition and winning. Yeah, I knew that they were competing for a sponsors and an audience but I thought they were sportsmen trying to sell the sport. In the split it was all laid bare as businessmen playing power games and making business decisions. And then I could only see motorsport as little more than that.

[WickerBill]

will never return to what was possible in the early 90's unfortunately, but depending on the terms he got could be a nice get

also, I'm kind of sad it's over. b/c screw them.

f00000000000000000!

[WickerBill]

After a day to digest, here's my completely unrealistic view of what should happen.

- Someone should apologize to fans - of both sides - for the split. That's not happened, and it won't mean anything to most of us, but I firmly believe in people willing to admit fault, even on behalf of an entity.

- Ovals should occupy no more than 1/3rd of the schedule, and no less than 1/3rd of the schedule.

- IMS should host one IndyCar race, not two. *Certainly* not two in one month. Indy was always about a month of focus on the big race, and now it's about a couple days of focus. Let the event breathe. Give time for deals to get done. T-cars to be filled on bump day. Nobody is forced to run, but if the track is open, they will. Make the Indianapolis 500 an event again, not a weekend and a half.

- Bring back F1, place it close to Montreal timing. The tires can be figured out now that there isn't a tire war. Bernie and Tony are both gone, double hallelujah... get this done.

- Perhaps a third motor manufacturer would be good, but what is needed is chassis competition. Spec chassis and spec aero kits are for junior series, not a series that wants to be a frontrunner. Everyone seems to think bringing in Toyota or Ford would bring spectators in, but really? Maybe a few, but wouldn't more intrigue re: setups, chassis/motor packages, and strategies get actual race fans interested?

- Expand the calendar. I don't even care if there are more races or not (probably should be), but don't end the season in what is basically summertime. Avoiding the NFL is a small-minded, meek approach that leaves a ridiculously long off-season.

- Don't leave anyone in any position of power that was associated with the vitriol of the split. Don't care how good they are at their job. Cleanse.

[SteveH]

As far as apologies Penske did say a few years ago that the US 500 was a big mistake. So there’s that ::rolleyes:

[SteveH]

Inside the blockbuster IMS, IndyCar sale (https://www.ibj.com/articles/inside-the-blockbuster-ims-indycar-sale)


Industry insiders estimate Penske got it all for roughly $300 million, plus promised additional capital improvements to the speedway. Penske and Miles declined repeated requests from AP to discuss financials.

[chop456]

$300MM? :laugh:

[Napoleon]

$300MM? :laugh:

If they can park that in some investment that yields 5%, that is $15,000,000 to the family every year until the end of time without ever touching the principal. (and that is on top of the Clabber Girl money)

[SteveH]

Don’t they have to pay taxes on the sale? Capital gains, maybe? I would be surprised if the sale price would pass through free and clear of taxes.

[Napoleon]

Don’t they have to pay taxes on the sale? Capital gains, maybe? I would be surprised if the sale price would pass through free and clear of taxes.

I love this question because I don't think most people realize how truly weighted the tax system can be to the rich. If Mom owned all the stock in the company that just sold to Roger, and say Roger is buying that stock, then the day she died her tax basis in the stock (and lets just say it was $1,000,000) "steps up" to market value on death (which I am sure they are going to argue is $300,000,000, which happens to match what they sold it for). Like magic, the entire appreciation escapes tax. I think that may work with gifted property as well (someone else could weigh in on that).

Now, $300,000,000 is a big number, bigger then the outrageously large gift tax exemption of around $11,000,000. They likely have been gifting assets all along to take advantage of annual gifting limits, and I would guess they have some kind that shelters some or, who knows, all of it. If not that could take a healthy bite out of it (up to 40% at the highest marginal rate).

Fair enough though, I really hadn't thought about that $300,000,000 shrinking via taxes.


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stepupinbasis.asp

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/which-states-have-estate-inheritance-taxes/

[Napoleon]

Something else occurred to me, I was also assuming they were not carrying debt, a really huge assumption. One thing I will give to the Holman's, they did plow money back into the facility. Even if they were pretty conservative about debt, it still would not surprise me if they had something like $50,000,000 outstanding for improvements they did not have cash in pocket to pay for.

[SteveH]

The federal estate tax exemption was 11.18 million in 2018, the year that Mari died. However any gomer worth his salt would have protected those assets somehow. Although these are special gomers, so who knows? I would think the estate tax would have been paid on the value as of date of her death. Which also includes Clabber Girl. However much the property increased in value since date of transfer would be subject to capital gains. Just spitballing here.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-federal-estate-tax-3505647

[gjc2]

The federal estate tax exemption was 11.18 million in 2018, the year that Mari died. However any gomer worth his salt would have protected those assets somehow. Although these are special gomers, so who knows? I would think the estate tax would have been paid on the value as of date of her death. Which also includes Clabber Girl. However much the property increased in value since date of transfer would be subject to capital gains. Just spitballing here.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-federal-estate-tax-3505647

It's very possible they sold due to the inheritance tax.

[devilmaster]

Something else occurred to me, I was also assuming they were not carrying debt, a really huge assumption. One thing I will give to the Holman's, they did plow money back into the facility. Even if they were pretty conservative about debt, it still would not surprise me if they had something like $50,000,000 outstanding for improvements they did not have cash in pocket to pay for.

I did remember seeing in one article that Penske did pick up the tab for outstanding debts.

[G.]

I did remember seeing in one article that Penske did pick up the tab for outstanding debts.

That's too bad.
I'm having Vishuns of Tony getting surprised when the debt collectors and taxmen come knocking on the door.

"Is someone repo-ing my car?"

[Rus'L]

It's very possiblethey sold due to the inheritance tax.

That's what happens to a lot of sports franchise owners. The heirs are forced to sell the team because of the inheritance tax.

[Rus'L]

Probably off by a factor of 5 - 10.

Most successful private businesses sell for 2 - 3x earnings. Add in a premium for the unique-ness of the opportunity. Subtract a little if it is an all cash deal. My generous estimate is between 200 - 400 million (400,000 tickets x $100, 35 million in TV revenue are the biggies)

For a data point, Clabber Girl is expected to generate 70 - 75 million in revenue and sold for 80 million.

Sounds like you were right on. Around $300 mil appears to be the best guess of insiders.

[Hard Driver]

Hallelujah!!! I'm thrilled. I tried to moved on from the split when the "merge" meant that the IRL name was dead. It was called IndyCar and made back up of road courses (Long Beach), street courses and some ovals. Last couple of years has been decent racing. I certainly harbor grudges against Tony George for what he did and knowing he was in the background somewhere was always a bit annoying, even though basically CART ate the IRL from the inside out. Well the last bite is final and any stench of the IRL is finally wiped away.

I'm not saying it is CART in it's heyday, but it is certainly an entertaining product as is. I see the value and potential Roger sees in the track and series. Already talking bigger engines in 2021 or something, certainly something they need.

I do think Roger will take the series in the right direction. There is more competition now. Don't see it going to a bunch of different chassis manufacturers soon, but I bet Penske can make engine deals with a 3rd manufacturer.

[WickerBill]

I hope they just go with higher revs. Put the engines on the limit a little bit, make them sound way better...

[gerhard911]

That's too bad.
I'm having Vishuns of Tony getting surprised when the debt collectors and taxmen come knocking on the door.

"Is someone repo-ing my car?"

:rofl:

[Hard Driver]

I was thinking the same my friend....the 24 year CIVIL WAR just ended.

As soon as the deal is inked, FIRE Brain Barnhart and all the Hulman rubes and footnote the IRL in all history books as a failed experiment. THEN, I'll make it a point to return.

We win, CART wins...may be the greatest day in auto racing history. To all our friends who have gone to heaven hoping this day would come...hallelujah! May the Hulman family choke on their new found riches and burn forever in hell.

Thinking about it, it resolves a 40 year civil war from the foundation of CART in 1979. That is when CART split with the USAC sanctioned Indy 500, but continued to race there. Then the IRL split. That original 1979 split has been resolved. Truthfully it is no longer team owner run like CART. But Penske running it makes it the son of CART.

[stroker]

Maybe I'm delusional, but I sure would like to see Lakefront airport back on the schedule...

[devilmaster]

Maybe I'm delusional, but I sure would like to see Lakefront airport back on the schedule...

indystar article says that he hinted in the press conference about another race in canada.

[opinionated ow]

indystar article says that he hinted in the press conference about another race in canada.

Apart from maybe Mont Tremblant or Montreal the only other options realistically is Mosport and I can't see that if the Toronto race is still viable. Jukasa Motor Speedway is probably a touch too small. I think it's only 5/8 of a mile.

[TedN]

Before considering a second event in Canada, Penske and his team need to sort out the Canadian TV rights. This past season's debacle with a last minute deal with Sportsnet World was an abomination. Hard to build momentum with potential viewers when they are forced to pay $20/month.

Ted

[Rus'L]

I certainly harbor grudges against Tony George for what he did and knowing he was in the background somewhere was always a bit annoying, even though basically CART ate the IRL from the inside out. Well the last bite is final and any stench of the IRL is finally wiped away.

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...

[Rus'L]

Before considering a second event in Canada, Penske and his team need to sort out the Canadian TV rights. This past season's debacle with a last minute deal with Sportsnet World was an abomination. Hard to build momentum with potential viewers when they are forced to pay $20/month.

Ted

I was talking to a reporter from Canada over the weekend, and he just ripped on the idiocy of the Indy car TV rights situation in Canada. He did mention he expects Penske to fix that quite quickly.

[KLang]

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...

I had no intention of following this sport again but that just seals it for me. :thumbdown:

[TravelGal]

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...


I had no intention of following this sport again but that just seals it for me. :thumbdown:

I have to admit, my heart sank to my shoes when I read what Rus'L wrote. :(

[nissan gtp]

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...

I don’t care about FTG anymore.

[gerhard911]

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...

There you go.

FRP

[SteveH]

What are Penske's plans for IndyCar? (https://racer.com/2019/11/11/what-are-penskes-plans-for-indycar/)



“Well, number one, when I look back, the biggest mistake I made is when we decided to start Championship Auto Racing Teams,” he said. “We were in conflict. I think today, hopefully, smarter minds would have kept it together. But, you can’t bring history back and change it.”

:rolleyes:

[nrc]

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...

Maybe he liked the irony that a seat on the board was one of the things that wasn't good enough to keep Tony satisfied with CART. Plus it's an olive branch to the Indy moron brigade. For the first board meeting they should have his seat all ready with a coloring book, some crayons, and a juice box. :tony:

[Duroc]

Maybe he liked the irony that a seat on the board was one of the things that wasn't good enough to keep Tony satisfied with CART. Plus it's an olive branch to the Indy moron brigade. For the first board meeting they should have his seat all ready with a coloring book, some crayons, and a juice box. :tony:

The cynic in me says it's all about the Benjamins. I sure there are other H-G's getting (or keeping) slots without much job responsibility.

[Duroc]

The tobacco money is gone. Ford, MB and Toyota ain't coming back. They destroyed most of their fan, team, sponsor, track and b2b capital. In the online age, motorsports' utility in reaching 24-54 y.o. males has passed, and sports entertainment startups have a significant cash burn rate.

What's not to like?

[Lux Interior]

Maybe I'm delusional, but I sure would like to see Lakefront airport back on the schedule...

Cleveland GP was well-supported over it's 25-year run. Roger liked that race. Hope to see it back along with Milwaukee.

[Napoleon]

Cleveland GP was well-supported over it's 25-year run. Roger liked that race. Hope to see it back along with Milwaukee.

He was actually the promoter of the race in some of the early years.

[Napoleon]

What are Penske's plans for IndyCar? (https://racer.com/2019/11/11/what-are-penskes-plans-for-indycar/)




:rolleyes:

I actually don't have any big issue with that quote from Roger. If you essentially consider the formation of CART through its termination, one big event, and you are looking back at it knowing what the result is (a greatly weakened sport) it is easy to support what he is saying. Note though, there is a lot left unsaid, like amybe "but I think CART's vision would have been better if implemented unmolested by IMS" or "I think by working within the system we would have had a better chance of implementing what we wanted to see happen then what ultimately happened".

[nrc]

What are Penske's plans for IndyCar? (https://racer.com/2019/11/11/what-are-penskes-plans-for-indycar/)




:rolleyes:


It's easy to love the kingdom when you're the king. Of course Penske is going to say this now. Does he want owners forming a union if they're not happy with the way he runs things?

Penske is suffering from selective amnesia. USAC wasn't going to change the way they ran their two-bit support series for the Indy 500 and they flatly refused to allow the teams to have a voice under their regime. I'd like to hear Penske say specifically how he thinks any of the good things that CART achieved during the '80s and '90s would have come to pass under USAC stewardship. The early years of the IRL demonstrated that they learned very little over all those years.

Maybe Penske figures now that he should have just spent truckloads of money to cram every stupid rule back down their throats the way he did with the pushrod engine rules. In retrospect he'd have been happy to feast on their stupidity and leave the scraps for the rest.

[nissan gtp]

It may be nothing more than being a gracious winner.

[Napoleon]

It may be nothing more than being a gracious winner.

I really think this is right.

[TravelGal]

It may be nothing more than being a gracious winner.


I really think this is right.

This is what I was hoping. Roger knows the politics of the game and he's good at it.

[Hard Driver]

Penske has already offered FTG a seat on the new board...

Well that stings a bit. I still say FTG. But at the same time, he still lost, sold the IMS and now is reduced to a board member. So I would still much prefer that. And truthfully, it sounds like Tony sought out Roger for the sale, so a reconciliation is maybe for the best. Tony can no longer take his ball and go home now, because it isn't his ball anymore. So overall this is still very good news.

[JoeBob]

NASCAR/The France Family took ISC private on October 19th.

Funny thing is that Roger weighed in on that a year ago, saying he thought it was a great idea. https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/motor/2018/11/10/penske-supports-nascars-bid-buy-into-international-speedway-corp/1962129002/


In today’s world, having a public company and not being able grow it at the level that shareholders have expectations (for) ... I think it de-complicates the relationship between NASCAR and the public (company) ISC. Overall, I applaud them for making the move.

We know the Hulmans would never sell the track to NASCAR.

But Roger? Remember back when he owned all those tracks? He had no problem selling them to the France Family. A decade later, he still thinks it's a great idea for the France Family to own all those tracks.

If all of a sudden everything in the town of Brickyard starts getting painted "house flipper beige" remember the immortal words of some website nerd of the past... YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

[devilmaster]

The tobacco money is gone.

Is it though? McLaren this week announced a deal with British American Tobacco. Ferrari has that 'Mission Winnow' logo which is Phillip Morris sponsorship (marlboro).

It sounds like the McLaren team will have some sponsorship on the pods from BAT, for both F1 and Indycar. Are they testing the waters for vaping sponsorship?

It is all very racing - show us the rules, we'll figure out how to bend them.....

https://jalopnik.com/what-the-****-is-mission-winnow-explained-1832730465

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/partners/british-american-tobacco/british-american-tobacco-announces-enhanced-partnership-mclaren-racing/

[TravelGal]

It is all very racing - show us the rules, we'll figure out how to bend them.....



I loved this approach in Ford v Ferrari re: the brakes.

[opinionated ow]

Is it though? McLaren this week announced a deal with British American Tobacco. Ferrari has that 'Mission Winnow' logo which is Phillip Morris sponsorship (marlboro).

It sounds like the McLaren team will have some sponsorship on the pods from BAT, for both F1 and Indycar. Are they testing the waters for vaping sponsorship?

It is all very racing - show us the rules, we'll figure out how to bend them.....

https://jalopnik.com/what-the-****-is-mission-winnow-explained-1832730465

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/partners/british-american-tobacco/british-american-tobacco-announces-enhanced-partnership-mclaren-racing/

I'm sure Alonson's car at Indy this year that failed to qualify had vaping sponsors on it.

[JoeBob]

Mission Winnow will be a first ballot inductee into the Unintentional Comedy Hall of Fame.

https://www.missionwinnow.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

[BigIrlFan]

HAHahahahah TONey GOrge got you again. SOld the track before the coronavirus set in. JUst how smart is that? YOU guys better hope OLD man PEnsky dont catch it an die hahahahaha TOney has to be the smartest man ever in racing. HOw many times can he beat you guys? He hammerd CARt into the ground and put CHAmpCAr to its knees. THey came crawling back. THen before the virus hits he sells. it. SEll high baby. TOney aint no dope. TAke the money and run hahahahaha AInt his worry now.

[G.]

HAHahahahah TONey GOrge got you again. SOld the track before the coronavirus set in. JUst how smart is that? YOU guys better hope OLD man PEnsky dont catch it an die hahahahaha TOney has to be the smartest man ever in racing. HOw many times can he beat you guys? He hammerd CARt into the ground and put CHAmpCAr to its knees. THey came crawling back. THen before the virus hits he sells. it. SEll high baby. TOney aint no dope. TAke the money and run hahahahaha AInt his worry now.

#FTGinventedCOVID-19

MAke iT tRend, babby!

[nrc]

:rofl:

[TravelGal]

:rofl:

Always good to have BigIrlFan back in the house. :rofl::rofl:

[Elmo T]

:laugh::rofl::)