View Full Version : Streaming TV options
Any thoughts on TV streaming providers. It looks like WOW has quietly stopped promoting cable TV service for new customers, directing people to streaming partners instead. This makes sense for a smaller carrier that can't continue to fight the carriage fee battles. I suspect it's the way of the future for many cable companies.
So any experiences or thoughts to share with streaming TV services?
AT&T TV appears to be the full cable experience ported to a streaming service. Contracts, bait and switch rates, the whole nine yards. The upside is that they have the most complete lineup.
YoutubeTV? Don't get me started on Google again. I would only go there as a last resort.
Fubo TV? They appear to have transitioned from a sports-centric offering to a pretty full lineup in a short time. Good compromise of value and channels.
Sling TV? Looks like the best value if the channels fit. Locals are antenna only which adds a level of hassle.
Device experience? Roku looks to be the safest bet. I really wanted the TiVo Stream to be a thing but it's full Android with all the Google baggage. Amazon Fire - same thing with a different evil overlord. Apple TV? Just seems over-priced with fewer features unless you're all in on Apple devices.
On the device, the Roku has been rock solid for me. I use it for Hulu, Disney+, Amazon, Netflix, etc. (The kids each have a favorite so we end up with them all.) We have a bunch of lesser viewed and smaller channels as well. I use the Roku for the NHL app and viewing is seamless and equal to "regular" TV.
I had Apple TV before and the only upside was integrating with my iTunes account. Compared to the Roku, the channel selection was limited.
YMMV
Be careful which Roku you look at. I don't think that they make any versions that use IR-only for control, but if they do, get that one!
I grabbed 2 on a black Friday deal, and I love them. Except...
The remotes for the "Roku Premier+" mess up your home's Wi-Fi. The box and the remote have this neat interference feature [/S] that finds the strongest, best Wi-Fi signal it can find, and it sets the box and the remote frequency to THAT Wi-Fi channel. That particular channel will of course be your own home Wi-Fi channel. It does it for 2.4 as well as the 5 GHz bands.
You can use the "secret" menus to mitigate this, and park the devices on another channel, but every so often something turns the "stomp-on-G.'s-Wi-Fi-channel" back on.
When my Wi-Fi slows down, I first check the ISP speed, then I check the spectrum and see if the Rokus are stomping on me again.
Thankfully, one off the kids sat on my Premier remote, and I got a cheaper IR-only remote. That removes one of the 4 devices that jump on my channel. (The box still sends out it's signal, even if you are using an Infrared remote. There is no way to just TURN OFF Wi-Fi.)
There is probably a newer collection than this. (https://lifehacker.com/all-the-roku-secret-commands-and-menus-in-one-graphic-1779010902)
(I haven't researched this in a while. I would have thought that they had fixed this by now. They haven't. https://www.reddit.com/r/Roku/comments/i2n2hh/have_5_roku_4k_ultras_at_home_now_my_wifi_is/)
They haven't moved onto my channel in a long time (maybe a year or so), so perhaps they stopped resetting the frequencies when they send updates. Or something.
Otherwise, they're great. Your neighbors may disagree.
I went full streaming just about a year ago. I buy 200 Mb/s from the cable company and I use YouTube TV as my streaming service for $50/month. I have two TVs, one smart TV and one “dumb” TV with an Amazon Fire Stick. I also can access TV on my phone, iPad or any computer. It works for me.
WickerBill
08-03-20, 08:15 PM
Interested in the carrier talk. Devices? I'm sold on Roku.
But let's talk about the next frontier of carriage disputes.... HBO isn't allowing its new HBO Max app on Roku or Fire until they pay HBO more. :shakehead:
Be careful which Roku you look at. I don't think that they make any versions that use IR-only for control, but if they do, get that one!
I grabbed 2 on a black Friday deal, and I love them. Except...
Great info, thanks. Argh. This is doubly annoying for me because I have a religious aversion to streaming media over wifi. It looks like only the Ultra has a wired port right now. Of course that comes with the wifi noise maker remote. :irked: I suppose if that's the choice I'll get one of IR remotes and see what happens.
From a convenience standpoint it would be nice if Sling were acceptable since there's an app for that on the TV and we could avoid another device and remote. Still would have to switch to Tivo for OTA, however.
On the HBO Max App, one good thing with Fubo would be that you can add HBO in the service at the same cost. I assume that content is then within the Fubo app.
WickerBill
08-04-20, 07:40 AM
I forgot to mention - I use the Roku app on my phone quite a bit instead of the remote (of course that requires either your Roku to be on wifi or your wired and wireless networks to have unobstructed connectivity)
Someone directed me to suppose.tv - super useful tool. Select your channels and see your options. Prioritize and weight by channels versus price.
The Fubo TV lineup is a little out of date in their tool but it's still on the list. Hulu with Live TV enters the fray. Upside is that they have an app on my TV (need to verify it works w/Live). Downside is AMC is missing. Not too big a deal right now since there's nothing we're watching on there now. But they've had enough good stuff in the past that it gives me pause. If they ever stop beating TWD to death something good might come back.
https://www.suppose.tv/
I got a Roku Express just to try out since it was dirt cheap and the IR remote avoids any WiFi issues. The super basic Roku remote seems less than ideal for Live TV apps. It's a game of "guess which button to push."
This is going to be tough. TiVo is just such a great user interface for watching TV that every little compromise in these streaming services is a barrier. Something as basic as fast forwarding through commercials is just much more annoying - slow clunky and difficult to time correctly.
Watching live TV and switching to another channel on a different tuner while a commercial is on, knowing that your program is buffering and will be ready to resume when you come back to it is just part of the way we've been watching TV for 20 years now. It seems like the only way to reproduce this in most streaming TV apps would be to start recording anything you're watching. This is starting to look like a tough sell, even saving over $100 a month.
WickerBill
08-12-20, 01:08 PM
100% agree. I'll tell everyone who asks that I have DirecTV because of Sunday Ticket so I can watch my Broncos.
In truth, DVR controls are just so much better when the device is local. Seeing where I am during FF, having 30 second skip, as you said dual tuner control, is just years ahead of any "cloud DVR experience".
100% agree. I'll tell everyone who asks that I have DirecTV because of Sunday Ticket so I can watch my Broncos.
In truth, DVR controls are just so much better when the device is local. Seeing where I am during FF, having 30 second skip, as you said dual tuner control, is just years ahead of any "cloud DVR experience".
How is it that Apple built an empire around user experience but nobody cares when it comes to watching video? It's amazing how much hassle "these kids today" will tolerate to avoid paying for content. Fortunately I will still be recording broadcast channels and that will get most of my football in a quality that no cable company delivers anyway.
The situation with DirecTV is going to get interesting. It sounds like AT&T has decided that they're not going to keep throwing money at new subscribers so the churn is melting their subscriber base. With margins pinched by content providers and competition coming from satellite broadband, proprietary direct satellite systems seem unlikely to remain competitive long term.
What will this mean for NFL Sunday Ticket when that comes up in 2022? I would be surprised if the NFL doesn't end up having to spread that offering out across more providers to make their money.
So we have a nominee. Fubo TV is the choice. Now I just need to get executive approval which will involve smoothing out the video switching and remote processes.
I was enthused about the Hulu Live package on paper. They have a good selection of channels with a nice client interface. The DVR seemed ok but I didn't get very far before I hit a complete show stopper. Unskippable commercials.
Unskippable commercials are everywhere in Hulu live TV. It's something that I hadn't even considered. People actually pay for programming and then tolerate being forced to sit through commercials? It's horrible. They're like little black holes with no escape scattered throughout the programs. :irked:
Sling also looked promising. No locals but really good value. But now I knew that the first thing I needed to look for was unskippable commercials. Yep. Not quite as bad as Hulu but they're in there. Pass. Another downside I noticed with Sling is that their DVR is limited to 50 hours of recording, and that's the upgraded version. It's not adequate if you like to accumulate programs the way we do.
So I didn't have high hopes looking at Fubo TV. Fubo has been heavily sports focused but has built out their entertainment channels pretty well. Most information about them outside of their site is stale since they just added a set of channels including ESPN. In the process they dropped Turner channels including CNN. They do have MSNBC so it's not a political thing. TBS and TNN seem pretty worthless to me so no big deal.
If you pay for the DVR upgrade they have a really good DVR package - 500 hours of storage with no time limit. They have a nice feature where if you start recording a program from Live TV it will start from the beginning. For some reason you can't access that cached video while watching live, but if you start the recording and go start watching the DVR recording you can start from the beginning.
Sports was their original attraction and it's still a big draw. I'm impressed with how easy they make it all to find - even relative to my Tivo which used to be the gold standard. Lots of racing. Evidently there's even some Indy car race coming up. :gomer:
I'm hoping we can make this work. I'll be able to upgrade Internet speeds and still save $100 a month if it flies. Not a huge sum but significant when you consider how little we actually watch TV these days.
Shameless referral link in case you're interested: https://refer.fubo.tv/x/V1nXps
Is YouTubeTV as good as it seems? Yeah, Google, but still.
Unlimited DVR, and it appears that you can pause Live TV, then FF to catch up (sounds like channel-skipping to me...).
One caveat is that if you have a movie on DVR, and that channel offers it On-Demand, you might get the OD version with commercials.
So we have a nominee. Fubo TV is the choice. Now I just need to get executive approval which will involve smoothing out the video switching and remote processes.
I was enthused about the Hulu Live package on paper. They have a good selection of channels with a nice client interface. The DVR seemed ok but I didn't get very far before I hit a complete show stopper. Unskippable commercials.
Unskippable commercials are everywhere in Hulu live TV. It's something that I hadn't even considered. People actually pay for programming and then tolerate being forced to sit through commercials? It's horrible. They're like little black holes with no escape scattered throughout the programs. :irked:
Sling also looked promising. No locals but really good value. But now I knew that the first thing I needed to look for was unskippable commercials. Yep. Not quite as bad as Hulu but they're in there. Pass. Another downside I noticed with Sling is that their DVR is limited to 50 hours of recording, and that's the upgraded version. It's not adequate if you like to accumulate programs the way we do.
So I didn't have high hopes looking at Fubo TV. Fubo has been heavily sports focused but has built out their entertainment channels pretty well. Most information about them outside of their site is stale since they just added a set of channels including ESPN. In the process they dropped Turner channels including CNN. They do have MSNBC so it's not a political thing. TBS and TNN seem pretty worthless to me so no big deal.
If you pay for the DVR upgrade they have a really good DVR package - 500 hours of storage with no time limit. They have a nice feature where if you start recording a program from Live TV it will start from the beginning. For some reason you can't access that cached video while watching live, but if you start the recording and go start watching the DVR recording you can start from the beginning.
Sports was their original attraction and it's still a big draw. I'm impressed with how easy they make it all to find - even relative to my Tivo which used to be the gold standard. Lots of racing. Evidently there's even some Indy car race coming up. :gomer:
I'm hoping we can make this work. I'll be able to upgrade Internet speeds and still save $100 a month if it flies. Not a huge sum but significant when you consider how little we actually watch TV these days.
Shameless referral link in case you're interested: https://refer.fubo.tv/x/V1nXps
WickerBill
08-18-20, 09:17 AM
Is YouTubeTV as good as it seems? Yeah, Google, but still.
Unlimited DVR, and it appears that you can pause Live TV, then FF to catch up (sounds like channel-skipping to me...).
One caveat is that if you have a movie on DVR, and that channel offers it On-Demand, you might get the OD version with commercials.
The complaint I've heard about YTTV is (other than it being Goog) that they keep adding channels and hiking the price, to where you're basically back in cable TV territory.
The complaint I've heard about YTTV is (other than it being Goog) that they keep adding channels and hiking the price, to where you're basically back in cable TV territory.
I keep hearing that but pretty much all of the providers are around $65 for a fairly complete package with DVR. Maybe that's comparable to the cable introductory bait and switch prices but the typical price for that kind of package on cable is closer to $120 (on top of the Internet service).
I don't think the demand for super skinny packages is as great as people think it is - including the YTTV complainers. Why not Philo for $20 or Sling for $30? Because they want a the channels that those services don't have because they're expensive and they bring other unwanted channels along with them.
For me, Google was out from the start based on tinfoil hat factors. But also, they're lacking History and A&E which I want. Also I'm hearing they have some unskippable commercials but I can't verify.
I did encounter one circumstance where Fubo has unskippable commercials. Some On Demand content won't let you skip commercials. Generally you can DVR the same content (unless you missed it) and view without commercials.
I keep seeing that the number of streaming video options will be reduced as time goes by. Too many now for the demand as we know it.
Then this pops up in my feed this morning.
The SVOD Shakeout Report (https://store.businessinsider.com/products/the-svod-shakeout-report?IR=T&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BII20200819SVODShakeoutReport&utm_term=BII%20Marketing%20%28Engaged%2C%20Active% 2C%20Passive%2C%20Disengaged%2C%20New%29%20Active% 20Suppression)
$495 :eek:
cameraman
08-23-20, 09:39 PM
The complaint I've heard about YTTV is (other than it being Goog) that they keep adding channels and hiking the price, to where you're basically back in cable TV territory.
YouTube TV also has an awful user interface. I do not understand why this is so hard for these people to wrap their brains around but the interface just sucks.
YouTube TV also has an awful user interface. I do not understand why this is so hard for these people to wrap their brains around but the interface just sucks.
None of the interfaces that I have tested have been great. I wonder if it has something to do with the really minimal remotes that are fashionable now. A handful of buttons with no obvious function.
One of the big challenges will be giving up controlling everything with our TiVo remote - which is hands down the best remote design ever. This process is making me bitter that TiVo never managed to cultivate a streaming video option. It seemed like an obvious direction. They were too busy trying to wedge their way into the cable provider market and didn't want to compete with them.
WickerBill
08-24-20, 03:36 PM
This process is making me bitter that TiVo never managed to cultivate a streaming video option. It seemed like an obvious direction.
They pretty clearly have an aversion to being a content carrier - and honestly, when you see the continual, stupid, petty "fights" carriers have with broadcasting companies (some current ones: HBOMax vs. Roku, Scripps vs. Dish), they probably thought they should stick to what they know.
But if an ad popped up that said "Sling, now with Tivo technology", you're right, I'd be learning all about that with haste.
So the final answer is Fubo TV. For us it's the best combo of price, channels, DVR, and skippable commercials. 108 channels, 500 hours of DVR, and three screens for $69.
I ended up getting a Roku Ultra in order to have a wired connection. That seems to have avoided any Wifi interference issues. Originally I was going to use a universal remote to try and keep a single remote, but the Roku buttons weren't obvious enough in that configuration. Instead I ordered a Roku-like remote that adds TV volume and input buttons to make things smoother. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CQQKJS3
I'll still use our Tivo to record local channels for sports - nothing beats the OTA picture for live sports. I did watch the NFL kick-off on Fubo to make sure that the picture for cable sports would be acceptable. It was at least as good as our cable picture which has been declining for sports and anything with action due to excessive compression.
My cable company was downright enthusiastic about cancelling our TV package. They offered to send a free Chromecast stick to support whatever streaming services I wanted to use.
Net result: $115 for faster Internet and programming per month vs previous $215 per month.
Net result: $115 for faster Internet and programming per month vs previous $215 per month.
I guess that's about the market.
I pay $65 for YouTube TV + $90 for 200 Mb/s compared to the $220ish I had been paying for two boxes + home phone.
I never used the home phone, I get good cell service. I don't need any of the premium movie channels or DVR.
I use Ooma for phone service just to keep the number that we've had for ages. I pay for the premium service at $10 a month but the basic service is available free except for required taxes and fees.
How are the Amazon Fire sticks?
I need a cheap one that I can use with an ethernet adapter. HD is fine, but not opposed to 4k for the future...
Stupid, cheap Roku Express has crap Wi-Fi coverage in my garage, which needs to get live IMSA races. :irked:
I can't believe that Roku doesn't offer an ethernet "injector" like Amazon and Chromecast. I just bought 2 Roku Expresseseses to round out my streaming.
I like Roku, but they are a stupid company. I doubt they keep very many engineers around after a product gets launched.
Yeah, I don't understand why Roku doesn't offer more options for wired ethernet. Even good wireless can get a little wonky from time to time and that's just not a good experience. I just solved it by getting a Roku Ultra which does have a wired connection. I agree that it would be nice if they would offer a wired adapter for the Express.
TravelGal
10-23-20, 02:30 PM
Hope no one is using Quibi.
We can never have anything nice. FuboTV has dropped A&E Networks. :(
https://thestreamable.com/news/fubotv-drops-a-e-history-lifetime-from-channel-line-up
Oh well, I guess I'll have to add Philo to get those channels back. If we end up watching most of our entertainment through Philo, Sling TV may become a viable option for sports since skipping commercials isn't as big a deal with live sports.
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