RP's future plans for Indycar?

[stroker]

Anyone heard anything encouraging about what Roger might do with the series? I know with Covid and all the other associated BS we're trying to live through that renovating the series is a non-starter, but it seemed to me that he's got an opportunity.

I don't know about you guys but F1 has been leaving me pretty cold of late. I don't want to get off topic or mince this too fine, but it seems more like a series for the mfgs to find a way to amortize their R&D as advertising by way of the FIA and a contrived set of tire rules intended to fabricate "drama". I just don't see F1 has being the same product as it used to be and that, to me, translates to an opportunity.

If Roger were to develop a series that could take advantage of the continually increasing access and decreasing cost of CAD/CAM, 3D printing, etc. to focus on low-cost team participation then I think he might see dividends. Culturally, AOW has been one of the "underdog" having a chance at the brass ring with something built in a garage. I know that's a romantic version of it, but what about making that your "vision" of a series and then trying to make it real? Even if you tried it as a support series I think it would be a step in the right direction.

I think I could support a series where the tub is spec (for obvious safety reasons) but then all the other parts of the car (aside from the engine) are either home-made or supplied through approved suppliers. Limit the hell out of the aero and put an enforceable cost ceiling on it.

Thoughts?

[Gopeddle]

I miss the days of varied engines, tires and car designs. The series should be given a budget cap, a set of specs they have to follow for safety cell construction and turn them loose to see how they could best spend their dollars. I don't like the "spec" series concept, I understand the need for it but I don't like it. And the gimmicks like push to pass have to go.

[SteveH]

As much as I'd like to see multiple manufacturers and vendors, I don't think the series provides ample ROI for that to occur. I think that has to be Roger's first accomplishment, make it so the return for competing exceeds the cost to do so. Otherwise IndyCar is merely asking other entities for charitable donations to participate.

[stroker]

As much as I'd like to see multiple manufacturers and vendors, I don't think the series provides ample ROI for that to occur. I think that has to be Roger's first accomplishment, make it so the return for competing exceeds the cost to do so. Otherwise IndyCar is merely asking other entities for charitable donations to participate.

But wouldn't the A to B path to ROI be fan participation? Get rid of any residual Onion Gum and get back to what AOW fans want both emotionally and intellectually? I don't see that being met by any series right now...

[nissan gtp]

I'd actually prefer a solid spec hybrid powertrain (ICE, electric+battery, electronics), with multiple chassis makers, or as Gopeddle suggested, a common safety cell with multiple "cars" build up from it (even DIY if you want). Not likely.

So if "power unit" makers still have to be the focus (as they are the ones that bring money), keep the spec chassis. But, some series has to take the jump and "reverse" the hybrid equation in racing. Instead of ICE with electric assist, make it electric with ICE assist. Oval racing will be tough for electric cars, recharging will be a challenge, but it's more similar to interstate driving than other forms of racing. Good learning/testing opportunity for powertrain makers.

[nissan gtp]

And oh yea, change the logo and get rid of the crapwagon.

[opinionated ow]

Realistically, due to a variety of things (socialist enforcers on social media, activist shareholders, EU threats etc) I don't think mass manufacturer backing of motorsport is long for this world. For openwheel I don't think that's an issue because specialist race engine builders are out there and the end result is the cars and engines will need to be cheap. I don't really believe a single person has remained interested for as long as any particular brand is there. When it comes to GT cars and touring cars this poses a problem but for openwheel and prototypes it might end up one day being a blessing in disguise.

[datachicane]

No offense intended to any of my fellow OC'rs, but that sounds suspiciously like the rationalizations that were trotted out prior to similar moves leading to 1996. Spec chassis and/or engines, mandated suppliers (outside of maybe tires), etc., were ******** then and remain so now.

Set a technical specifcation, teams pass tech, it's not that hard. Trying to mandate cost-cutting through spec chassis and/or engines is a cure worse than the disease, IMO. I'd much rather watch CART ca. 1983 with 98% of the entries running March/Cosworth because that was the economical choice than ChampCar ca. 2005 where the spec was defined in the rules. That's gutting a huge part of the appeal for motorsports, for me, anyway. I would much rather watch F1, warts and all.

[stroker]

This thread makes me miss dancing bananas and green llamas...

[TravelGal]

This thread makes me miss dancing bananas and green llamas...

:thumbup::thumbup:

[TheGuywho]

This thread makes me miss dancing bananas and green llamas...

Noooooo...

[TheGuywho]

Back to topic. 3D Printing would be fascinating, to develop a formula car from computer to printer, it would be amazing. Roger pays attention to what manufacturers and sponsors want. But now he sits on the throne. I would hope he would pay attention to advances in Hybrid technology, with Porsche and others entering the field of all electric for consumers, the writing is on the wall. But the evil of auto racing across all forms of racing is AERO... no matter what powers racing, all series have to deal with that devil. I just wish he was 50 years younger.

[stroker]

F1 already has the "technology" market cornered. If (and that's a big "If", IMHO) Indycar wanted to stake a claim on a specific fuel technology then they should do so on renewable liquid fuel instead of electric. Either (or both) of biomass diesel or methanol could work for that.

I reiterate my position that Big $/High Tech has already been claimed by F1. Part of the lack of appeal F1 has traditionally faced in the US is that the US automotive market is, at its most fundamental, a group of gearhead hot rodders. They want to understand the technology and see what happens in the test tube experimentation of racing so they can learn from it. The US market won't embrace F1 tech because it's not applicable to their lives and it's too frikkin' expensive. Renewable fuel, on the other hand, is a different matter. IMHO Roger should abandon any serious intent to embrace recoverable energy and focus on renewable fuels because it's a more attractive technology to his core market. Furthermore, reaching for recoverable energy would almost certainly require factory involvement but renewable fuels could be implemented at the Team level.

[JoeBob]

At the end of the day, ROI is the name of the game. And the fact of the matter is that as time goes on, the percentage of the population that are "car people" declines.

It is increasingly difficult to be a gearhead these days. Modern cars just can't be tweaked the way they could generations ago. Hell, you can hardly service them yourself. With the advent of ride shares, transportation is a commodity that you can consume as needed, and we're not that far off from not even needing a driver. The only companies that get long term ROI from racing are the automakers, and the leap from "who made the engine in that race car" to what car should I buy?" is just too great these days.

People are still infatuated by "cool" cars. Elon Musk has gone the Apple route and invested in branding to the point that people pay a premium for his brand as a status symbol. Would people tune in to watch Tesla's race each other? Maybe? But he hasn't needed racing to establish his place as a premium performance product yet. And there's certainly no place for Tesla as an engine manufacturer (nor is there a need for them to compete anywhere in that sort of role.)

Because of these things, I just don't see where today's IndyCar fits into the mix. Maybe as a way to see high performance cars careening through the streets of your city, but even then, a modern TransAm or GT3 type of thing might draw more people in. Speed for the sake of speed just isn't happening - we found that limit long ago, and any faster is putting participant and spectator lives in danger.

In my mind, Roger doesn't have a business plan for this. This isn't about making money, it's about keeping his family legacy alive. Penske made his name and built his businesses off of Indy Car Racing. If you turn The Brickyard into a housing development, there goes the place that really made him who he is. So he bought it. Probably got a deal. He can keep it going and not go bankrupt, and it's a cool thing for his kids to own when he's gone. They'll have his legacy and the place he built it.

And Tony George and family can go visit, and they can sit around and chat about what could have been.

[pfc_m_drake]

In my mind, Roger doesn't have a business plan for this. This isn't about making money, it's about keeping his family legacy alive. Penske made his name and built his businesses off of Indy Car Racing. If you turn The Brickyard into a housing development, there goes the place that really made him who he is. So he bought it. Probably got a deal. He can keep it going and not go bankrupt, and it's a cool thing for his kids to own when he's gone. They'll have his legacy and the place he built it.

And Tony George and family can go visit, and they can sit around and chat about what could have been. I'm inclined to agree with you. However I look at it from a little more practical side. People forget, but Roger's a kidney patient (going on year 4 of his transplant that typically last a median of 10 years). I think the opportunity came up last year to buy the speedway, and he jumped on it, recognizing that his time for doing such things is running short.

And frankly, that time could run out any day. Ponder the idea of taking powerful anti-rejection immunosuppressants during the middle of a pandemic for a moment...

But I agree with you in that he has no long-term 'plan'. I think he wanted the speedway, knew his time was short (relatively speaking) so he bought it. As you say, probably got a good deal.

And it's a shame TG wasn't content being a track owner and making money hand over fist by hosting the biggest race in the world.

[SteveH]

IndyCar commits to separate next-gen engine, chassis rollouts (https://racer.com/2020/12/29/indycar-commits-to-separate-next-gen-engine-chassis-rollouts/)

[opinionated ow]

I'm inclined to agree with you. However I look at it from a little more practical side. People forget, but Roger's a kidney patient (going on year 4 of his transplant that typically last a median of 10 years). I think the opportunity came up last year to buy the speedway, and he jumped on it, recognizing that his time for doing such things is running short.

And frankly, that time could run out any day. Ponder the idea of taking powerful anti-rejection immunosuppressants during the middle of a pandemic for a moment...

But I agree with you in that he has no long-term 'plan'. I think he wanted the speedway, knew his time was short (relatively speaking) so he bought it. As you say, probably got a good deal.

And it's a shame TG wasn't content being a track owner and making money hand over fist by hosting the biggest race in the world.

From what has been reported, TG decided it might be time to get out. The family had already sold Clabber Girl. RP had no idea the place was even being considered for sale but TG sought a meeting with RP at Laguna Seca and basically said I want to sell, sell to you.

[pfc_m_drake]

From what has been reported, TG decided it might be time to get out. The family had already sold Clabber Girl. RP had no idea the place was even being considered for sale but TG sought a meeting with RP at Laguna Seca and basically said I want to sell, sell to you.Yep - you may be correct in that what you say is the way it cam about. But, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that RP got out of the racetrack owning business a while ago. Also, just because I want to sell you my house, it doesn't mean you have to buy it :)

Furthermore, Steve's link to the Frankencar plan in store for IndyCar in post #16 furthers my thinking that RP (and his team) really don't have any 'long term vision' for some 'destination' that they have the goal of taking the series to.

Sadly.