View Full Version : Used car prices
Used car prices are insane. I'm driving my Mustang so little that I'm tempted to sell it and pocket the money until the market gets back to normal. I did a Carvana quote and it was about $4000 above KBB private party sale value. :saywhat:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/hot-market-for-used-cars-is-sending-prices-to-bizarre-levels/ar-BB1gHw2y
nissan gtp
05-17-21, 12:59 PM
I just sold my Boxster for what I paid for it going on 4 years ago
datachicane
05-20-21, 11:05 PM
Just sold my '55 Ford wagon for well over twice what I paid for it 2.5 years ago. Because I'm an idiot I immediately turned around and bought a '58 Ford wagon.
Just sold my '55 Ford wagon for well over twice what I paid for it 2.5 years ago. Because I'm an idiot I immediately turned around and bought a '58 Ford wagon.
Is that another ambulance?
pfc_m_drake
05-21-21, 06:01 PM
Was looking at used trucks today.
Came here to say, "Can confirm - used car prices are nuts."
datachicane
05-22-21, 01:23 AM
Is that another ambulance?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dZH-hjOP9_Jve61y3e6RIdA-y9UVELq3M283lLwCQPtfrHscq5P6bEgW7uFPlV4iR98llz2DYI B0cZSr2up68DqEEKEOGmb92IO7j6rCqtdaB6SYrQL8Do7qoQbA HjG0ID3OzjDF-W3dFpAKRlNFlPig=w1221-h915-no?authuser=0
No, plain old 9-passenger wagon, just back on the road after a couple of decades sitting next to a barn in Alfalfa, Oregon. I’d assumed it was ex-Forest Service given the color scheme and the ground-off logos on the doors, but it’s a higher trim and option level than they generally go for, so I suspect it probably belonged to a big ranch. This is the dirtiest car I've ever owned, with fine dirt having blown through every possible crevice, coating everything- I must have vacuumed 50lbs of Eastern Oregon topsoil out of this thing.
WickerBill
05-22-21, 08:37 AM
data, that is so cool. Did you have to replace the front glass or was that somehow intact after the downtime?
Car dealers are buying almost every vehicle that comes back off lease.
pfc_m_drake
05-23-21, 10:47 AM
Car dealers are buying almost every vehicle that comes back off lease.
What's weird is that I expected exactly the opposite. With the pandemic, travel has been limited, and the rental car companies have struggled (like all travel related business).
I expected a flood of used cars on the market as rental companies dumped their inventory...but that (seemingly) hasn't happened.
Anybody have any insight?
datachicane
05-23-21, 06:05 PM
data, that is so cool. Did you have to replace the front glass or was that somehow intact after the downtime?
No, all of the glass was intact, with the exception of the passenger's front window which was cracked (since replaced). Other than the filth it's in pretty fair shape, although the upholstery is brittle from sun rot. Zero rust in the rear quarters, edges of doors, tailgate, all the usual trouble spots, which was why I couldn't pass it up. Heck, even the weatherstrip is soft and supple, which I don't understand. Turns out it's not the neglected field car I thought I was buying- I got it from a non-car guy who acquired it as part of an estate clean out, it must have been the old guy's project back in the '80s. All new balljoints, shocks and various suspension bits, a nice upgraded tranny (toploader 3.03 in place of the original BW, properly set up through the factory shifter), a fresh 390 with what looks like a brand new Autolite 4100 off of a '64 T-Bird, exactly the sort of things I would have done. I can't believe how nice it drives compared to the farm-truck vibe it gives off.
TravelGal
05-24-21, 01:13 PM
What's weird is that I expected exactly the opposite. With the pandemic, travel has been limited, and the rental car companies have struggled (like all travel related business).
I expected a flood of used cars on the market as rental companies dumped their inventory...but that (seemingly) hasn't happened.
Anybody have any insight?
There are fewer new cars to buy. Some causes are chip and parts shortages and cargo difficulties due to reduced air and sea traffic from other countries. For example, Japan for some models of Honda. Anything assembled in Canada. All that sends buyers to used cars. Plus, the dumping by the rental car companies goes to CarMax and those types of dealerships and that happened a year ago.
Car dealers are buying almost every vehicle that comes back off lease.
I leased my current Subie - never leased before but changes in domestic situations and budgets made that most practical at the time. Wasn't ideal - but nothing was ideal then. :rolleyes:
A few months later, my daughter got accepted to University of TN Knoxville... "Go Vols".
In short, I've overrun the mileage limits by like 20K :saywhat::rolleyes:. The plan from the start was always to keep the car.
I love my car and have every intention of keeping it. The dealer has reached out several times expressing an interest in the car. Each time I actually speak with them - before even the mileage talk - I hear "people want cars with new technology - sorry we aren't interested". I have a 2018 Impreza Sport and seemingly all someone who wants a solid daily driver would like.
I'll make one more run at other options before I finally close it all out on the lease.
Newsletter: Want to sell your car? Prices are amazing now (https://www.latimes.com/business/newsletter/2021-05-18/used-car-prices-high-shortage-covid-19-pandemic-business)
My son and his wife just bought a new Telluride. About 5 months before the lease was out on their Chevy Terrain. The Kia dealer gladly bought out the lease and gave them a good trade in on the Telluride. I'm sure to get a used car to put on their lot. Interesting strategy if someone has a few months left on a lease. I'm sitting tight for another year. Probably only drove 5k in the last year.
pfc_m_drake
05-25-21, 07:33 PM
There are fewer new cars to buy. Some causes are chip and parts shortages and cargo difficulties due to reduced air and sea traffic from other countries. For example, Japan for some models of Honda. Anything assembled in Canada. All that sends buyers to used cars. Plus, the dumping by the rental car companies goes to CarMax and those types of dealerships and that happened a year ago.Good point re: fewer new cars due to chip shortages sending everybody over to the used market.
Holy cow
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
pfc_m_drake
06-07-21, 07:11 PM
Holy cow
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
I legit priced a new Toyota Tundra pickup and I could get a brand-new model cheaper than anything used that I could find. Legit.
Just for kicks I checked Carvana for a price to purchase my 2015 Infiniti Q50S. It’s 40% of the original sticker price. All things considered that’s very good. I’d like to get that much for it next spring when I’ll be ready to get something else.
WickerBill
06-08-21, 08:34 AM
There's also the interesting case of the Ford Fusion, whose last model year was 2020. Because it was the last year, and because it was 2020 and nobody was going anywhere, they had a huge glut. You can find $33,000 top trim level models with hardly any miles on them for $22-23k.
Considering my 2013 Fusion is suddenly worth $12k... that's a tempting offer - 8.5 years for 10k
There's also the interesting case of the Ford Fusion, whose last model year was 2020. Because it was the last year, and because it was 2020 and nobody was going anywhere, they had a huge glut. You can find $33,000 top trim level models with hardly any miles on them for $22-23k.
Considering my 2013 Fusion is suddenly worth $12k... that's a tempting offer - 8.5 years for 10k
You trying to set me off on another rant about Ford's stupidity? :mad:
datachicane
06-08-21, 07:18 PM
You trying to set me off on another rant about Ford's stupidity? :mad:
No more cars, other than the Mustang. :saywhat: Ford's been torturing us car guys for years, selling all of this cool stuff in Europe that we can't get, and this seems like the ultimate expression of that particular dynamic.
I'd rented a few Fusions over the years, surprisingly nice cars, I'd definitely choose one over a Camry or Altima. A hot SVT Fusion wagon would have been tough to resist.
WickerBill
06-08-21, 08:27 PM
My Fusion Titanium (2.0 EcoBoost) was the "sportiest" package they offered at the time, 19" and wider tires, paddle shifters, tuned up just a touch from the regular 2.0.
It ain't a sports car, but it is really, really enjoyable to drive - both very connected to the road and comfortable at the same time. And it gets 26mpg.
Well... mine gets 20mpg, but :D
I'm ready for a Mustang GT500, now that my kids are all gone. But my wallet is not, sadly.
RaceGrrl
06-09-21, 06:30 PM
Every once in a while I get a call from the Ford dealership about buying my 2017 Ford Focus ST. Not selling. Besides the fact that it's yellow (!) it's just a lot of fun to drive. I don't even know what's on the market now that I might be interested in. Getting old, I guess. And get offa my lawn.
WickerBill
06-09-21, 08:56 PM
Every once in a while I get a call from the Ford dealership about buying my 2017 Ford Focus ST. Not selling. Besides the fact that it's yellow (!) it's just a lot of fun to drive. I don't even know what's on the market now that I might be interested in. Getting old, I guess. And get offa my lawn.
Did anyone else see that, or was it just me? Did RaceGrrl just post??
WickerBill
06-09-21, 08:57 PM
That's your first post in five years.
WickerBill
06-09-21, 08:57 PM
That makes me happy!!
RaceGrrl
06-09-21, 10:12 PM
That's your first post in five years.
I know. Hiya. :)
Used car and truck prices up 7.3% in May alone.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm
pfc_m_drake
06-10-21, 07:59 PM
I'm in the market for a new truck (not the one I'm about to link!)
Anyhow
As of the time of this writing, this fine vehicle (https://www.wayneakersford.com/inventory/new-2021-ford-f-250sd-tuscany-black-ops-4wd-4d-crew-cab-1ft8w2bt6mec44006/)can be had for the ultra low price of $122,995.
Sticker price is $77,955.
Don't ask me what warrants a vehicle being worth $50,000 over sticker price :eek::eek::eek::(
I'm in the market for a new truck (not the one I'm about to link!)
Anyhow
As of the time of this writing, this fine vehicle (https://www.wayneakersford.com/inventory/new-2021-ford-f-250sd-tuscany-black-ops-4wd-4d-crew-cab-1ft8w2bt6mec44006/)can be had for the ultra low price of $122,995.
Sticker price is $77,955.
Don't ask me what warrants a vehicle being worth $50,000 over sticker price :eek::eek::eek::(
Well, it's gotta be the "Black Ops" emblems, right? I mean, you can spend years on rigorous training and risking your life as an death dealing soldier of fortune and international man of mystery, or you can just buy the truck. Seems like a bargain.
It feels like a lot of bad financial decisions are being in the pandemic hang-over.
pfc_m_drake
06-11-21, 07:12 PM
Well, it's gotta be the "Black Ops" emblems, right? I mean, you can spend years on rigorous training and risking your life as an death dealing soldier of fortune and international man of mystery, or you can just buy the truck. Seems like a bargain.
It feels like a lot of bad financial decisions are being in the pandemic hang-over.I just about fell out of my chair at the price of that truck. I will NOT be making that bad decision...my current truck will last several more years with a little TLC. Now is a CRAZY time to be in the market for a vehicle.
Car prices are soaring, and they're not going to stop (https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/11/business/car-prices-record-high-short-supply/index.html)
I'm in fleet leasing. Every vehicle coming off lease is worth much more than the residual value.
Many cars that had been very heavily discounted are selling for sticker or more (sometimes a lot more)
Used Car Prices Explode To New Record High (https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/used-car-prices-continue-historic-vertical-ascent-new-record-high)
datachicane
11-23-21, 11:49 PM
The wife's Mazda is preparing to shuffle off this mortal coil, and she's fairly adamant that we should own at least one automobile made since Dylan plugged in. She may have a point, I suppose, and it'd be nice to buy a car that already had seatbelts for a change, but man, prices are crazy. My timing could certainly be better.
Coincidentally, my father picked up his new Model Y this week, and offered me his pristine 2008 MKX for the nutty low trade-in price that Tesla offered him, so it looks like I'll be roadtripping it home from Arizona next month. Not a big SUV fan, but he's liked the MKX more than pretty much any car he's ever owned, surprisingly. It's been rock-solid, with the few issues outside of normal maintenance being picked up under warranty.
Hard Driver
12-01-21, 07:13 PM
Traded in at the Mazda dealer my 2018 MX-5 Miata RF with 40k miles for 2/3rds of the original price, for a new 2012 Mazda MX-5 Miata RF at MSRP and a loyalty discount.
Trade in price seemed ridiculously high, and the new model has an upgraded engine, suspension, limited slip differential and a new warranty. Could not pass it up.
The local Mazda dealer has 2 new vehicles on their lot. 2! Bet they aren’t dealing on those. Why should they? Their used car inventory is substantially reduced as well. They usually have very nice used cars for sale. I hope they can keep the lights in from service related activities.
pfc_m_drake
12-01-21, 08:29 PM
Luckily (and it was questionable at the time, but in hindsight...) my GF's head gasket failed on her '06 Scion TC back in November of 2019 - so we purchased a Mazda 3 Sport hatchback at the time. Great deal in retrospect.
I was not so lucky...purchased a '21 Toyota Tundra on 10/31 of this year. I did, however, get a good value on the trade-in for my '09 Silverado.
No complaints...but it's a strange world we're living in.
The big used car chains are paying stupid money for cars (and turning around and selling them at huge markups and even higher interest rates.)
My father passed away earlier this year, and I inherited his car. I decided to keep his car and ditch mine, so I brought my my 2012 Ford Focus Titanium with 112k miles to a local dealership and to CarMax to see what they'd pay.
The local dealer offered a little over 3 grand. CarMax offered $5500. The local dealer flat out said to take the CarMax offer - because they'd never be able to sell it for that much and feel good about it. Too much history of transmission trouble for their liking, they'd just send it to auction. It took less than 30 minutes from the time I told CarMax I'd sell to them until I walked out of their dealership with a bank draft.
Walking around CarMax was an eye opener. Every car has a sticker that shows the price in terms of monthly payments at 3 interest rates - always a 72 month term. The interest rates ranged from 5% for "very good credit" to 20% with poor credit. Their "no haggling" price is also consistently higher than anywhere else (look at what they're paying for cars)
That they'd sell a 9 year old car with over 100k miles with payments over 6 years at 20% interest to anyone should be criminal. But that's their business model. And why it's super expensive to be poor.
I love the Mustang but I'm missing something small and light. I think I'll end up back in a Miata eventually but in the mean time I considered trying to cash in on these crazy prices by trading down to a Fiesta ST. Trouble is, the bottom end is just as inflated as the rest of the market so the net profit isn't what I'd like - particularly for a low mileage car.
This low monthly payments for life mindset is going to come back to bite this generation when they're ready to retire. Not just for cars, but for everything. I think I'm done financing cars.
devilmaster
12-02-21, 07:05 PM
I think I'm done financing cars.
My Aspen, a few years ago I said I'd drive it into the ground, and it looks like that time has come upon me. Problem is what the current market is like I may have to just throw more money at it to give it a couple more years hopefully.
I have been looking but to be honest, if I can't afford to buy it outright or heavily down payment it and pay it off within 1 year, i'm not going to bite.
The years of society living off credit is over. Time to pay the piper.
WickerBill
12-03-21, 09:48 AM
I'm still driving my '13 Fusion, 70k miles, pretty much zero issues. It would be very good for me to have a truck of some sort as a second vehicle, but resale on trucks has always been crazy and right now, as pfc saw, it's really bananas, even on 10+ year old trucks.
Had my eyes on a new Maverick, as they're sub-$30k and big enough for the occasional stuff I need to do (and 40mpg). Then I saw one in person and was kind of shocked the thing is only as tall as my chest. Not sure why, but it made me balk. Every SUV my family has ever owned is taller than that truck - afraid I'd feel like I was in a miniature.
Just for kicks I had Carvana give me a price on my 2015 Infiniti Q50 maybe 6 months ago. Then it was something more than 40% of sticker. I thought that was decent. They pestered me via email for about 3 months, even updating the value once. I wonder how much it has increased since then.
WickerBill
12-03-21, 10:13 PM
THAT'S the car.
A month or so ago, I was thinking that someone posted this really voluptuous Japanese luxury car a couple (!!) years ago on here, and I couldn't find it or remember it. But that's it. It was you. That's a good looking car.
THAT'S the car.
A month or so ago, I was thinking that someone posted this really voluptuous Japanese luxury car a couple (!!) years ago on here, and I couldn't find it or remember it. But that's it. It was you. That's a good looking car.
I’ve been extremely pleased with it. Only 70k miles on it. I’d get another just like it but that would look identical to what I have now. So why trade? Went to the Chicago auto show in Feb 2020 thinking I was in the market. But then the realities of the pandemic took over and I decided to wait. Glad I did, I would have burnt the first year’s warranty while it sat in my garage. Now I probably won’t do anything until 2023. 3 years after I thought I would trade.
I'm still driving my '13 Fusion, 70k miles, pretty much zero issues. It would be very good for me to have a truck of some sort as a second vehicle, but resale on trucks has always been crazy and right now, as pfc saw, it's really bananas, even on 10+ year old trucks.
Had my eyes on a new Maverick, as they're sub-$30k and big enough for the occasional stuff I need to do (and 40mpg). Then I saw one in person and was kind of shocked the thing is only as tall as my chest. Not sure why, but it made me balk. Every SUV my family has ever owned is taller than that truck - afraid I'd feel like I was in a miniature.
We've gotten by with a 5x8 utility trailer that we tow with the CX5. It has done remarkably well. It's only rated to tow 2000lbs but that's the same as the Mavrick. Plenty for moving our lawn tractor around, small loads of firewood, trips to the dump, etc. That four banger has heaps of torque and has no problem moving out from a stop. Just don't expect much on the highway.
Long term we'll want something with more towing capacity. Building materials and a camper are probably in our future. 5k is probably enough so once prices settle down we'll probably look at a second hand Ridgeline or a Tacoma. Tacoma is more trucky but has a manual available if you can find one.
nissan gtp
12-04-21, 09:33 AM
We've gotten by with a 5x8 utility trailer that we tow with the CX5. It has done remarkably well. It's only rated to tow 2000lbs but that's the same as the Mavrick. Plenty for moving our lawn tractor around, small loads of firewood, trips to the dump, etc. That four banger has heaps of torque and has no problem moving out from a stop. Just don't expect much on the highway.
Long term we'll want something with more towing capacity. Building materials and a camper are probably in our future. 5k is probably enough so once prices settle down we'll probably look at a second hand Ridgeline or a Tacoma. Tacoma is more trucky but has a manual available if you can find one.
We have a Taco (2011) , it’s a good truck, but the towing capacity is pretty low. Maybe the new ones are better, they seem a bit bigger.
We have a Taco (2011) , it’s a good truck, but the towing capacity is pretty low. Maybe the new ones are better, they seem a bit bigger.
Yeah, I don't need a huge capacity. 5-7k would be enough and I think the Taco and Ridgeline fall in there. Enough for a cozy camper or a small car hauler.
nissan gtp
12-04-21, 10:04 PM
Yeah, I don't need a huge capacity. 5-7k would be enough and I think the Taco and Ridgeline fall in there. Enough for a cozy camper or a small car hauler.
ours is something like 2,500, but it’s the 4 door
ours is something like 2,500, but it’s the 4 door
I think the '16 and later had a jump in towing capacity, especially with the towing package. Definitely a bigger vehicle.
pfc_m_drake
12-09-21, 08:07 PM
The big used car chains are paying stupid money for cars (and turning around and selling them at huge markups and even higher interest rates.)
My father passed away earlier this year, and I inherited his car. I decided to keep his car and ditch mine, so I brought my my 2012 Ford Focus Titanium with 112k miles to a local dealership and to CarMax to see what they'd pay.
The local dealer offered a little over 3 grand. CarMax offered $5500. The local dealer flat out said to take the CarMax offer - because they'd never be able to sell it for that much and feel good about it. Too much history of transmission trouble for their liking, they'd just send it to auction. It took less than 30 minutes from the time I told CarMax I'd sell to them until I walked out of their dealership with a bank draft.
Walking around CarMax was an eye opener. Every car has a sticker that shows the price in terms of monthly payments at 3 interest rates - always a 72 month term. The interest rates ranged from 5% for "very good credit" to 20% with poor credit. Their "no haggling" price is also consistently higher than anywhere else (look at what they're paying for cars)
That they'd sell a 9 year old car with over 100k miles with payments over 6 years at 20% interest to anyone should be criminal. But that's their business model. And why it's super expensive to be poor.In hindsight I'm thinking I should have sold my '09 Silverado at CarMax rather than trade it. But, as I said, I paid sticker for the Tundra and they gave me a fair trade - can't complain in this market.
Sorry about your dad, by the way.
Mr. Vengeance
12-10-21, 12:45 AM
Looking for my mid-life crisis car... This is insane: https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/dodge/challenger/bc/?rcp=15&rcs=30&srt=3&prx=-2&prv=British%20Columbia&loc=BC&hprc=True&wcp=True&inMarket=advancedSearch
devilmaster
12-11-21, 03:26 PM
Looking for my mid-life crisis car... This is insane: https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/dodge/challenger/bc/?rcp=15&rcs=30&srt=3&prx=-2&prv=British%20Columbia&loc=BC&hprc=True&wcp=True&inMarket=advancedSearch
A brand new hellcat Durango (yes, SUV durango) is 131000 canadian rupees. Granted, thats Calgary pricing which is always a bit higher.
according to the autotrader website, over 8 years/96 months at 5.99%, your interest owing would be another 35000 dollars.
Used car prices could crash - will they? (https://advisory.kpmg.us/articles/2021/used-car-prices-could-crash.html)
stroker
12-26-21, 09:15 AM
Used car prices could crash - will they? (https://advisory.kpmg.us/articles/2021/used-car-prices-could-crash.html)
Bottom line, plan for at least two years for supply/demand alignment and possibly a glut of people upside down on their auto loans.
Got it. :)
‘Bubblicious’ used car prices are rising faster than bitcoin, market researcher Jim Bianco warns (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/26/bubblicious-used-car-prices-rising-faster-than-bitcoin-jim-bianco-warns-.html)
devilmaster
12-28-21, 04:07 AM
annnd i'm pretty much going to put the money into my Aspen for anouther year or two I think.
I bought my fully loaded 2008 aspen 8 years old for $10000 back in 2016.
I am now looking at 8 year old fully loaded 2013 Durangos (basically the same vehicle) going for 25000-30000.
nope.
pfc_m_drake
12-28-21, 08:21 AM
The good news is that you can sell the Aspen for a couple bucks more than you paid for it.
The bad news is that you then have to buy something else...
WickerBill
12-28-21, 09:36 AM
The good news is that you can sell the Aspen for a couple bucks more than you paid for it.
The bad news is that you then have to buy something else...
That sounds like the Indy housing market. Got divorced last year, I kept the house, everyone was saying "the market is so hot, why don't you sell it?" Because, Nancy, I can sell this one for more than it's worth but then have to buy another for more than it's worth.
I suspect some people are going to be in for an unpleasant surprise when they go to trade these cars in three to five years from now. Inflated prices are probably being hidden by ridiculous loan terms. The average *used* car loan was already over 60 months before all this.
devilmaster
12-29-21, 03:32 AM
That sounds like the Indy housing market. Got divorced last year, I kept the house, everyone was saying "the market is so hot, why don't you sell it?" Because, Nancy, I can sell this one for more than it's worth but then have to buy another for more than it's worth.
Once the folks passed away back in 2014, we sold their house for about 100000. 2 bed bungalow, detached garage, large yard. guy who bought it replaced the indoor back porch into a florida room, big deck out back and hot tub outside. When the housing market jumped during covid, he put it on the market for 230000. Sold in feb over for 240ish I hear. Flippers bought it, gutted dining room and kitchen, turned florida room into 'bedroom' and added a 2nd bath right next to 1st. My sister went for a viewing to see it. Left alot of old things while slapping lipstick on a pig.
Heard that it went for 360000. That will sooo be an upside down mortgage. No regrets that we didn't keep it. I know what that house truly has for issues and i'm quite sure nobody dealt with it in the upgrades.
Back on the car market - I am noticing a definite 2 tier pricing here. Cars that have sat on lots seem to not be overpriced while the used cars just put on the market have the updated pricing.
I'll probably still wait it out unless I see something that makes alot of sense. Not expecting that though.
devilmaster
12-30-21, 02:33 AM
I'll probably still wait it out unless I see something that makes alot of sense..
Makes alot of sense except in one very important way....
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/aston%20martin/v8%20vantage/edmonton/alberta/5_52887366_20080409075005281/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=4_8_8&pc=T6W%202C3&sprx=-2
pfc_m_drake
12-30-21, 04:43 PM
Makes alot of sense except in one very important way....
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/aston%20martin/v8%20vantage/edmonton/alberta/5_52887366_20080409075005281/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=4_8_8&pc=T6W%202C3&sprx=-2Wonder how it does in the snow...
datachicane
12-30-21, 08:47 PM
Wonder how it does in the snow...
My brother says that his 2014 Vantage convertible sucks in the snow. Dodged that bullet! :rofl:
devilmaster
01-02-22, 09:05 PM
In Canadaland, this is kinda where we are going now...
2012 Land Rover LR4--------------------------------------2015 Dodge Durango R/T
1122
pfc_m_drake
01-03-22, 08:53 AM
It's really crazy that a 6-year old Durango with 70,000 miles is going for $32k...even if it's Canadian Pesos.
https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-01-03/29-000-for-an-average-used-car-would-be-buyers-are-aghast$29,000 for an Average Used Car? Would-Be Buyers Are Aghast
pfc_m_drake
01-03-22, 07:41 PM
Yep. First sub-title tells it all:
Prices for used cars are soaring so high, so fast, that buyers are being increasingly priced out of the market.
nrc made an excellent point about 60-month financing on used cars a few posts back as well.
devilmaster
01-03-22, 09:28 PM
nrc made an excellent point about 60-month financing on used cars a few posts back as well.
There are some dealers on autotrader offering in house 72 month financing at a standard 6.99% (O.A.C.) on used vehicles...
pfc_m_drake
01-04-22, 07:52 AM
There are some dealers on autotrader offering in house 72 month financing at a standard 6.99% (O.A.C.) on used vehicles...When this bubble bursts (as it almost certainly will) there's going to be a lot of people underwater on their used-car purchase for a long time, unfortunately.
When this bubble bursts (as it almost certainly will) there's going to be a lot of people underwater on their used-car purchase for a long time, unfortunately.
One thing that may prevent the bubble from bursting is the increasingly mandated transition to BEVs. This is going to cause a significant escalation of new car prices and disruption of supply as automakers struggle to make that transition. That's going to continue to keep some buyers in the used market who would normally buy new. That will keep pressure on used supply and demand.
I expect to see the COVID disruptions used as a smoke screen for all of that.
pfc_m_drake
01-04-22, 04:46 PM
One thing that may prevent the bubble from bursting is the increasingly mandated transition to BEVs. This is going to cause a significant escalation of new car prices and disruption of supply as automakers struggle to make that transition. That's going to continue to keep some buyers in the used market who would normally buy new. That will keep pressure on used supply and demand.
I expect to see the COVID disruptions used as a smoke screen for all of that.You could be right - but I (think) I recently saw a statement from Toyota that they only expected 5% of the Latin American market to be EV by 2030 (maybe it was even 2040). It almost read to me like a cautionary statement about just how gradual a transition to EV is going to be. I know there's government directives, but I can't help but think realities are going to start getting in the way.
Time will tell.
You could be right - but I (think) I recently saw a statement from Toyota that they only expected 5% of the Latin American market to be EV by 2030 (maybe it was even 2040). It almost read to me like a cautionary statement about just how gradual a transition to EV is going to be. I know there's government directives, but I can't help but think realities are going to start getting in the way.
Time will tell.
Oh, I agree that it won't be based on consumer demand. Toyota and companies that are pumping the brakes on the EV hype can afford to maintain separate ICE/Hybrid/BEV platforms and programs. Less well run companies are being forced to move money from ICE platforms to EV platforms. That will mean fewer affordable ICE vehicles available to meet that demand.
This bubble is going to be used to hide the fact that it's regulations that are helping drive the transition and the associated costs. Some consumers will fall out of the new market into the used market. Some lower income people will be driven out of car ownership entirely. For some factions that's a desired outcome.
Serfdom is good. Let the Nobles worry about what's good for you.
pfc_m_drake
01-05-22, 01:32 AM
it's a very strange world and very strange times that we are living in.
Going back to my CarMax post - every car on that lot has pricing in terms of monthly payments over 72 months, regardless of the age of the vehicle. With interest rates as high as 20%.
pfc_m_drake
01-06-22, 10:25 AM
I have to confess that I didn't initially process the 72 months. 60 was immediately recognizible as 5 years...but you're right. Your CarMax example covers the situation nicely.
Someone Paid $55,500 For A 22-Year-Old Chassis Cab On Bring A Trailer (https://jalopnik.com/someone-paid-55-500-for-a-22-year-old-chassis-cab-on-b-1848348033)
pfc_m_drake
01-15-22, 08:56 AM
Someone Paid $55,500 For A 22-Year-Old Chassis Cab On Bring A Trailer (https://jalopnik.com/someone-paid-55-500-for-a-22-year-old-chassis-cab-on-b-1848348033)
In the not-too-distant future I can see cars/trucks from the 2009-2012/2014ish era becoming popular for a variety of reasons (cars of that era lack of driver assist features that you cannot permanently disable being the first thing that comes to mind).
But that doesn't seem to be the driving factor (no pun intended) for the high price in your link.
Strange times.
Please Do Not Pay $49,000 For A 14-Year-Old Dodge Challenger (https://jalopnik.com/please-do-not-pay-49-000-for-a-14-year-old-dodge-chall-1848362600)
stroker
01-16-22, 09:46 AM
A good friend of mine (sorta) has convinced himself his next car will be a 66-68 Mustang with a 200cid six and an automatic transmission. His logic is:
1. He used to own one and he loved it all year round
2. virtually every part for that car can be sourced from restoration suppliers
3. parts are comparatively cheap and easily installed compared to current cars
4. insurance would be cheap
5. it gets reasonably decent gas mileage
6. it's not fast enough to get into serious trouble
7. people still think they're cool
I'm having a tough time beating most of his argument. I don't know what my version of that concept would be, (maybe an A-body Mopar sedan) but a Mustang would not be my choice for a similar buy.
Original-Owner 12k-Mile 2004 BMW M3 Coupe 6-Speed (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-bmw-m3-coupe-110/)
Winning Bid USD $85,000 by grp09
Auction Ended Wednesday, January 12 at 2:25pm
Bids 12
datachicane
01-16-22, 08:26 PM
A good friend of mine (sorta) has convinced himself his next car will be a 66-68 Mustang with a 200cid six and an automatic transmission. His logic is:
1. He used to own one and he loved it all year round
2. virtually every part for that car can be sourced from restoration suppliers
3. parts are comparatively cheap and easily installed compared to current cars
4. insurance would be cheap
5. it gets reasonably decent gas mileage
6. it's not fast enough to get into serious trouble
7. people still think they're cool
I'm having a tough time beating most of his argument. I don't know what my version of that concept would be, (maybe an A-body Mopar sedan) but a Mustang would not be my choice for a similar buy.
I've daily driven a '65 Mustang with a 200ci since the mid '80s. From a practical standpoint, he's absolutely correct- this is by far the cheapest car per mile that I've ever owned. Parts are cheap and readily available (much more readily available than much late model iron), it's simple and reliable, it does absolutely nothing as well as a modern car, and you won't care one whit. A sensor and a coil pack for the wife's Mazda costs more in parts than I spent swapping the 3-sp for a new WC T-5 built with custom gearing to my specifications, complete with all adapter plates, clutch and pressure plate. A complete new interior is less than a set of tires. There's not much that you can't fix with a 9/16" combo wrench and a Leatherman.
It'll beat you up a bit on long trips vs. modern stuff, but it's well worth it. The big advantage of the Mustang vs. an early A-body. Camaro, or pretty much any other car you can name is the price and availability of parts, especially for '65-66 cars, since Ford built well over a million Mustangs through the '66 model year. That's a huge market for parts, dwarfing any other candidates with the possible exception of vintage VWs. Pick up a parts catalog and compare the prices and the impact couldn't be more stark.
nissan gtp
01-17-22, 08:55 AM
The other disadvantage of an old car, it’s not at all safe in accidents compared to new cars.
datachicane
01-17-22, 04:36 PM
The other disadvantage of an old car, it’s not at all safe in accidents compared to new cars.
Yep, there's nothing they do as well as even the crappiest newer car except run cheap and give you a smile. Motorcycles aren't exactly safe, either, but that doesn't mean a grisly death is the inevitable outcome.
Speaking of which...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-ford-mustang-349/
BAT market is inflated with everything else but early coupes with I6 have been less so.
I test drove one '66 many years ago but the manual steering was too slow and vague to tolerate. The PS on my '69 was still vague but much better. Have you done anything to the steering, DC?
datachicane
01-17-22, 07:48 PM
Speaking of which...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-ford-mustang-349/
BAT market is inflated with everything else but early coupes with I6 have been less so.
I test drove one '66 many years ago but the manual steering was too slow and vague to tolerate. The PS on my '69 was still vague but much better. Have you done anything to the steering, DC?
Pretty much all steering complaints with old cars are either poor mechanical repair or, more often, poor tire choices. Our 90lb grandmothers had no problem wheeling around without power steering back in the day. Make sure the suspension and steering gear are in good condition, idler arms, tie rod ends, etc., all of which are available and dirt cheap, and you're almost certainly there. I have the original recirculating ball steering box on my '65, well north of 300k miles now, and it doesn't even need an adjustment. These cars were engineered for relatively narrow rubber, and putting monster meats on them significantly increases the amount of friction with the road surface and will cause headaches with steering, and, as you note, PS back in the day wasn't exactly noted for communicating road feel back to the driver. Stick with something fairly close to the factory rubber and you'll have no problems at all. My stock steering setup does just fine, even with some autocross duty thrown in.
Also, since most of them are used as weekend drivers, it's incredibly common to find nice old cars for sale with absolutely ancient tires fitted. Just because there's plenty of tread left doesn't mean they don't need replacing like yesterday. Run the DOT date codes, and if they're more than five years old replace them. More than once I've been on the edge of replacing shocks and springs in an old car only to check the date codes and find 20 year old rubber- new tires, and they drive like a new(er) car. Tires more than a decade old will make anything drive like a farm truck.
Update on the Focus that CarMax gave me $5,500 for. Looks like it went to auction, and made its way from Minneapolis to Sioux Falls: https://www.empireautosf.com/details/used-2012-ford-focus/81835379
pfc_m_drake
01-31-22, 06:35 PM
9 grand for a 2012 focus with 106k miles :eek:
edit: The only think that would make that deal a little sweeter would be to finance it at 18% over 6 years...
9 grand for a 2012 focus with 106k miles :eek:
edit: The only think that would make that deal a little sweeter would be to finance it at 18% over 6 years...
I mean, I did take pretty good care of it.
I'd be very curious as to how much CarMax got from Empire for it at auction. As much as that's a lot for my old Focus, at some point the margins become pretty thin.
pfc_m_drake
02-02-22, 09:14 PM
I mean, I did take pretty good care of it.
I'd be very curious as to how much CarMax got from Empire for it at auction. As much as that's a lot for my old Focus, at some point the margins become pretty thin.Well, my GF and I have split a nice bottle of Merlot tonight...so take the following for what it's worth in that respect...
1) There's the 'velocity of money' argument in the used car market.
2) Additionally, I've always wondered how many used cars met their ultimate demise (through collision or otherwise) within a year of purchase
Presumably nobody is losing money in this transaction (other than you and I). My old neighbor (when I lived in WNY) owned a used-car lot and he used to tell me that he'd rather sell 4 cars at $250/a piece profit than 1 car at $1000 profit. I'm sure he was making good money in service...but there's probably a fundamental argument there.
Bottom line: We're certainly living in different times right now. I wonder how long it lasts? We'll see...
Chevy Blazer, Ford Mustang, Plymouth GTX: The Biggest Suckers On Bring A Trailer This Week (https://jalopnik.com/chevy-blazer-ford-mustang-plymouth-gtx-the-biggest-s-1848481410)
https://twitter.com/dougs_cars/status/1493991863568769025?s=20&t=hlltm_kvi3yTkU9JQjEqxw
pfc_m_drake
02-17-22, 07:37 AM
https://twitter.com/dougs_cars/status/1493991863568769025?s=20&t=hlltm_kvi3yTkU9JQjEqxw
That was kind of where I was back in October when I decided it was time to replace my 2009 Silverado.
There's a popular used car place here in Florida called OffLeaseOnly..com I would price out used Toyota Tundras and OffLease would routinenly have 2016-2020 models with 15k-120k miles, and they'd be in the $38,000-$44,000 range depending on options/etc. Just for giggles I pulled up a local Toyota Dealer's website and they had a brand new 2021 Tundra with SR5 trim package (e.. basically 'loaded') for $36,499. So I bought it.
Crazy crazy times.
Thinking again about a future truck, I went back and did a search for 4 door Tacomas and Ridgelines under $30k. Nothing at that price point under 100k miles.
Even if you say that a Taco is good for 200k easy, you're still paying 100% of MSRP for a truck with half it's useful life gone. Of course, I have no idea what kind of chicanery is happening in the new showrooms.
pfc_m_drake
02-17-22, 06:19 PM
Thinking again about a future truck, I went back and did a search for 4 door Tacomas and Ridgelines under $30k. Nothing at that price point under 100k miles.
Even if you say that a Taco is good for 200k easy, you're still paying 100% of MSRP for a truck with half it's useful life gone. Of course, I have no idea what kind of chicanery is happening in the new showrooms.You might be pleasantly surprised on the new market. Depending on when you look. Depends on your budget also. If you can hold out, you're probably better off.
For me, I got tired of repairing the '09 Silverado (it wasn't just wear items like shocks and brakes - but things like power window switches and airbag sensors that should have had more useful life than they did).
Luckily I'm pretty mechanically adept, but for me I got tired of spending the time to make the repairs (so it became a 'time is money' trade for me). Used didn't make sense in the full-size market that I was in, but I don't know about the Tacoma/Colorado/S-10/whatever market.
TravelGal
02-18-22, 04:57 PM
For anyone looking in the West, my car broker said this morning that manufacturing is ramping up but vehicles are stuck at the port of Los Angeles waiting for electronics. She sweeps the dealers west of the Pecos (er, Mississippi) and can often find what you need at a smaller dealership without have to 100% over sticker.
272-Mile 1993 GMC Typhoon (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-gmc-typhoon-15/?fbclid=IwAR2KWLDFrkg_b90NAhu4IOuTnTOL4OdK-WGbIWsq7gC0sWtcSzTXtOw8mgA)
Winning Bid USD $175,000
Seems to be an outlier :rofl:
https://bringatrailer.com/gmc/typhoon/
Some people are really ga-ga for low mileage garage queens. Same seller sold a 250-Mile 1991 GMC Syclone for $108k.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-gmc-syclone-37/
I guess this is why some folks buy these cars and let them sit for decades. Because "it'll be worth something some day." For some cars I can see it because they're like art. They have meaning and value as an object beyond the sum of their parts.
But this is just a box of GM parts cobbled together. And $30k in an index fund in 1991 would net you $300k today. So I hope someone enjoyed their boxy garage sculptures.
And as for the buyer... Is this just the result of the fact that the next generation of people with more money than they know what to do with didn't grow up with anything better to pine after?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/business/car-buyers-sticker-shock/index.htmlSticker shock: 80% of car buyers now paying above suggested retail price
stroker
02-20-22, 09:15 AM
And as for the buyer... Is this just the result of the fact that the next generation of people with more money than they know what to do with didn't grow up with anything better to pine after?
I'm pretty confident the buyer thinks he's purchased the four-wheeled equivalent of a Monet or a Van Gogh or a Rembrandt and that it will do nothing but appreciate in value over time, even after GM has done a Daihatsu...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.