View Full Version : Jeddah
Do not like this track. A high speed Monaco. But nicely lighted in blue, so it has that going for it. In fact, I don’t care for any of the Arabian tracks. But what are you going to do, they aren’t going away.
Max was on a purple flyer. He could have not pushed as much towards the end of the lap and still held pole. But that wouldn’t have been Max to do that. If HAM wins the final two races he is WDC. Epic finish to the season.
https://twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1467196374458458114?s=20
https://i.redd.it/2i3kdh4qgk381.jpg
https://streamja.com/30qlq
devilmaster
12-04-21, 04:31 PM
I'm home, so race chat tomorrow...
opinionated ow
12-05-21, 12:48 AM
Good luck to Martin Brundle trying to identify any corner from another when doing the commentary.
It's possibly the worst F1 street circuit in the last 30 years
pfc_m_drake
12-05-21, 08:28 AM
I'm home, so race chat tomorrow...This is a bugger because I have a friend/former co-worker that's in town for the weekend. He wanted to get together tonight...but now it's 1pm my time (e.g. right as the lights for the start of the race go out).
:flaming:
I might be able to pop in for the 2nd half of the race. Does jitsi have an app? Maybe I can stream from my phone for a couple of minutes.
I'm going to try...
Watching the F2 race which is under red flag. A car failed to leave the line when the lights went out and got absolutely drilled. I believe there also was a collision in the first set of turns. But the announcers’ attention is all on the start crash. Possibly the scheduled F1 start will be delayed.
Fan video of start crash
https://streamable.com/sovh2a
Drivers involved
https://twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1467512034346606592?s=20
Emmo’s grandson
BTW the start of this race was delayed due to repairs to barriers from an earlier incident
https://twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1467512034346606592?s=20
No gearbox change for Max
https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1467468280843714565?t=_2BKvxJBWNOqUP8sWSUlEA&s=19
Start of F2 from telecast
https://streamable.com/vn7zit
Pourchaire seems to be fine, no word on Fittipaldi
https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/1467514880332816387?s=20
Fittipaldi taken by ambulance to helicopter to hospital
Different angle of start crash
https://twitter.com/hardypanda619/status/1467513502038474756?s=20
Gives a sense of speed not apparent in the other videos
Saw a report that Fittipaldi’s injuries are not life threatening but transported to the hospital due to loss of blood from leg injuries.
pfc_m_drake
12-05-21, 11:45 AM
Pretty scary.
Looks like maybe the car started to go, but got 'hung' in an anti-stall mode (?) Hard to say.
Hopefully Fittipaldi is ok.
Race will not be resumed. 5 laps.
Pretty scary.
Looks like maybe the car started to go, but got 'hung' in an anti-stall mode (?) Hard to say.
Hopefully Fittipaldi is ok.
It was a 72g impact :eek:
Well done F1
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1467531007498854401?t=avd7cwdwKl7duvGSf53TDQ&s=19
I believe the reason the F2 race was red flagged for the second time was not due to the severity of the crash but because the cranes had to enter the track to remove the crashed cars. Which does not bode well for F1. The track design is ridiculous.
This track is trash. Absolute trash.
devilmaster
12-05-21, 03:33 PM
This will be talked about for years.
And next year the stewards will rule with an iron fist. to the detriment of f1.
https://twitter.com/LandoNorris/status/1467604000782491649?s=20
Enzo’s ok, relatively speaking
https://twitter.com/PiFitti/status/1467657280279781381?s=20
WickerBill
12-05-21, 09:22 PM
Hey pfc, I was genuinely happy to see Bottas get around Daniel and Esteban on what was a difficult track.
The track is... it's a street race. They ALL have the propensity to be like this, but we got to see a lot of (IMO) first-year lunges and attempts that won't happen as much in the future. But goodness, I wish F1 would grow some scruples and tell SA to pound sand... so to speak. "Human Rights Violations Grand Prix" has a terrible ring to it.
I think Max is getting off easy, *if* the telemetry shows what appeared to happen... Hamilton gets under his wing and Max taps the brakes then immediately takes off.
Can't gather why Hamilton slowed down behind him. Just can't get my head around that.
Can't believe it's tied going to the final race.
devilmaster
12-06-21, 12:19 AM
I think Max is getting off easy, *if* the telemetry shows what appeared to happen... Hamilton gets under his wing and Max taps the brakes then immediately takes off.
Can't gather why Hamilton slowed down behind him. Just can't get my head around that.
Looking at the replay of the 2 hitting each other and then what Max did 2 laps later its obvious. They both were trying not to be the first over the DRS line. They both slowed. Max was trying to force Lewis into crossing the line first, so he could get DRS. I think Lewis knew this, and slowed as well.
To me, this isn't a Max 100% thing as it was gamesmanship and one-upmanship between both of them. When Max let him pass 2 laps later pretty much under the same circumstances and then re-passed Lewis going into 1, that showed me what they were both trying to do when they collided.
This track so much reminded me of Surfers in the old days.. it really did. And the accidents in the back of the pack reminded me of those races as well. They really needed to make it a rolling restart instead of standing starts. Seriously, if there was a safety team with trucks instead of having marshalls running out on track (again, what in the absolute f#^k), this would have been a good ol champcar race from back in time.
Jeddah was almost as long as Road America. And its here to stay, because money will always triumph over human rights records, unfortunately. But they really need to figure out how to run a champcar-style street race.
I can't imagine Masi being around after this season. But I still believe that stewards will be allowed to rule alot harder next year, and they will overdo it and rule with an iron fist, and everyone will go from complaining about wishy washy stewarding this year to over-stewarding and wreck the new season and debut of the new car in 2022.
WickerBill
12-06-21, 08:18 AM
Can we all agree that the ability to change tires during a red flag is the most ridiculous loophole in all of racing?
opinionated ow
12-06-21, 10:28 AM
Can we all agree that the ability to change tires during a red flag is the most ridiculous loophole in all of racing?
yep. 100%. Everything about that race was wrong. The circuit, the driving standards, the officiating, the human rights record and the regulations.
The average lap speed for that track is 151 mph which (to me) seems a bit high for a street circuit. Throwing a chicane or two in the mix won't change much as so many of the corners are high speed. The entire circuit is too fast for a street circuit. Layer on everything else, this is a poor choice of venue.
https://twitter.com/enzofitti/status/1467839349614067722?s=20
agree
https://twitter.com/alex_wurz/status/1467784950720212992?s=20
devilmaster
12-06-21, 01:34 PM
agree
https://twitter.com/alex_wurz/status/1467784950720212992?s=20
100% agree.
TravelGal
12-06-21, 01:44 PM
I need a nap!
That's what I thought when I finished watching it. Geez. :shakehead: Interesting to hear Toto Wolff say they had a good doctor who would provide him with product. I posted here a couple of months ago that his demeanor had changed completely. I suspected prozac or the like. Now we know for sure.
The average lap speed for that track is 151 mph which (to me) seems a bit high for a street circuit. Throwing a chicane or two in the mix won't change much as so many of the corners are high speed. The entire circuit is too fast for a street circuit. Layer on everything else, this is a poor choice of venue.
During the race commentary the broadcast crew mentioned that this circuit was the second fastest, next to Monza. Crazy
pfc_m_drake
12-06-21, 08:47 PM
Hey pfc, I was genuinely happy to see Bottas get around Daniel and Esteban on what was a difficult track.
Can't believe it's tied going to the final race.Two of my favorite Bottas moments: Azerbaijan 2017 and Jeddah 2021 (passes for podium finishes at the checkered flag. I appreciate your comments.
Can we all agree that the ability to change tires during a red flag is the most ridiculous loophole in all of racing?
100% agree.I don't actually have a problem with tire changes under red flag. BUT (and this is a big BUT): The way to do it 'properly' is to *immediately* call for VSC with pits *closed* after an incident such as the Schumacher one. If the conditions dictate (e.g. a barrier needs repaired) then you go red-flag for the entire field. This way nobody is at a disadvantage due to the red-flag (since pits were closed) and everybody can repair their cars/change tires/etc. equally under the red-flag. This requires Race Control to be 'on their game'...something that has NOT been true lately.
Should be a fun last race. Looking forward to it!
pfc_m_drake
12-06-21, 08:52 PM
I can't imagine Masi being around after this season. But I still believe that stewards will be allowed to rule alot harder next year, and they will overdo it and rule with an iron fist, and everyone will go from complaining about wishy washy stewarding this year to over-stewarding and wreck the new season and debut of the new car in 2022.The problem (from my view) has been the inconsistency of RC. They went from being super-lax at the beginning, to being super strict in the middle (wasn't Bottas given a 3-place grid penalty at Monaco for spinning in the pits during *practice*!!!) to now being super lax again.
You can live with almost any rule as long as it's enforced consistently. RC has been very inconsistent.
Think about it...a spin...during practice...resulting in a penalty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiNdUXhGeX4
devilmaster
12-06-21, 09:27 PM
My 100% agree comment was WB's post of a tweet that says if you're ordered to give up a spot, you can't get DRS when you give it up.
There shouldn't have been red flags at all yesterday during the F1 race. (F2, yes absolutely). IF they had safety trucks and team it would have went just like a champcar yellow.
pfc_m_drake
12-07-21, 06:53 AM
That's ok...I'll just put words in your mouth as necessary to fit my narriative. :D:rofl:
I'll try to put my reading comprehension hat on next time!
WickerBill
12-07-21, 09:25 AM
Well, for what it's worth, I thought you were agreeing with the tire changes during red flags comments too.
pfc, I get your point about let them change tires but make it equal, but it sure seems that a red flag should mean "stop" - everything is frozen in carbonite. When a race is red flagged, it just seems weird that materially different cars can come out of the pits than went into it.
Since I'm on a "can we all agree" binge, can we all agree that the instant the race director saw Schumacher had damaged the wall, he should have thrown a red flag? Obviously without safety trucks (which will *never* happen due to Jules Bianchi), they were going to have to red flag the race - what in the world took two laps to make that call? Did someone have to go out there and radio back "Yep, it looks exactly like it does on TV"??
(I think that's what pfc is saying also, except with VSC)
Masi says Jeddah only needs "fine-tuning" despite F1 drivers' concerns (https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/masi-says-only-fine-tuning-needed-at-jeddah-despite-f1-drivers-concerns/6859810/)
Well, there you go
pfc_m_drake
12-07-21, 08:27 PM
Well, for what it's worth, I thought you were agreeing with the tire changes during red flags comments too.
pfc, I get your point about let them change tires but make it equal, but it sure seems that a red flag should mean "stop" - everything is frozen in carbonite. When a race is red flagged, it just seems weird that materially different cars can come out of the pits than went into it.
Since I'm on a "can we all agree" binge, can we all agree that the instant the race director saw Schumacher had damaged the wall, he should have thrown a red flag? Obviously without safety trucks (which will *never* happen due to Jules Bianchi), they were going to have to red flag the race - what in the world took two laps to make that call? Did someone have to go out there and radio back "Yep, it looks exactly like it does on TV"??
(I think that's what pfc is saying also, except with VSC)You can call me Drake :)
But yes, you represented what I was saying quite well.
The bottom line is this: It's not so much the particulars of 'no tire changes under red flag' as much as it is 'nobody should gain an advantage as a result of a red flag'. Of course, I absolutely agree with those sentiments. From an 'entertainment' standpoint I don't hate the current red flag rules...but agree that advantages shouldn't be gained through the pure luck of when a red-flag happens.
Should be a fun and exciting finish to the year!
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