Abu Dhabi Grand Prix (SPOILERS!)

[devilmaster]

Felt this needed a new thread for the day. Don't want to surprise anyone going to the old thread.

Stewarding and Masi will probably be revamped (the nice way of putting it)

When you basically ensure the courts will have to decide this....

I think we all remember the bad old days of sh*^#y stewards...

[pfc_m_drake]

I hope it doesn't goto court.
But I agree with everything you said.

Stewarding has been abysmal this year.
That said, Mercedes strategy has been the only thing worse than the stewarding.

A lot of pieces to pick up after this one, and as I said in chat - Honda is once again leaving at seemingly the exact wrong time.

[devilmaster]

On twitter, people are already putting up the rule that basically was broken to get the last lap in.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGaqhKzWQAcMdKl?format=jpg&name=900x900

[devilmaster]

have fun! The piece of paper that will now be scrutinized ad nauseum for the next 3 months....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGasdqYXIAEfz7d?format=jpg&name=large

[devilmaster]

1119

[pfc_m_drake]

As we discussed, my first thought (and Swifty's also) when we saw Latifi against the barrier was *red flag* before anyone had the chance to pit. Then everybody comes in for the red, you can order the field however you want (without the pressure of having race laps ticking away under the SC) and then do a rolling start for a 5-lap shootout.

The cards fall where they will in that scenario, and nobody feels like they were cheated in the end.

Now, that's Swifty and my view in-the-heat-of-the-moment as Joe Average fans. So of course the professionals (e.g. Massi and the Stewards) pretty much maximize the screw-up guaranting it ends up in litigation.

Still doesn't excuse Mercedes strategy calls...

[devilmaster]

Still doesn't excuse Mercedes strategy calls...

No and the fact that earlier while under green they asked Lewis what tyre he wanted if a FCY came out.

Latifi's crash was only 2 corners from the main straight and pit in. They showed him driving by Latifi's crash.

Lewis had the chance to get fresh tyres as well.

[pfc_m_drake]

No and the fact that earlier while under green they asked Lewis what tyre he wanted if a FCY came out.

Latifi's crash was only 2 corners from the main straight and pit in. They showed him driving by Latifi's crash.

Lewis had the chance to get fresh tyres as well.100% agreed.

[devilmaster]

2 protests lodged by Mercedes.

Apparently one with Max passing lewis while under yellow (the gamesmanship again)

And the 2nd based on rules not being followed under the safety car.

[pfc_m_drake]

They'll throw out the Gamesmship one (or fine Max $10,000 just to say they did something...)

I'm glad I don't have to make a judgement on the 'rulebook' protest.
Assumig no clarification bullitens had been released that might usurp the rulebook on the restart procedure, Mercedes has a legitimate complaint.

Hopefully this isn't decided 'in the courts'

[devilmaster]

Damn, just thought of this.

Even Barnfart can't claim to be the best at terrible stewarding anymore. The guy just can't catch a break.... :rofl:

[devilmaster]

According to Chris Medland (racer's f1 reporter) the first protest meeting is done, and the 2nd was just about to start.

They're doing this quick.

[pfc_m_drake]

As I recal from back in the late days of CART, Chris Kneifel was so bad that they had to haul Wally Dallenbach out of retirement to give him a hand. But even the Knifeman didn't have anything on Massi and the Circus today.

[pfc_m_drake]

According to Chris Medland (racer's f1 reporter) the first protest meeting is done, and the 2nd was just about to start.

They're doing this quick.Wow.

[devilmaster]

Protest for passing during safety car dismissed.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021%20Abu%20Dhabi%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Decision%20-%20Mercedes%20Protest%20Art.%2048.8.pdf

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[devilmaster]

2nd protest denied.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021%20Abu%20Dhabi%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Decision%20-%20Mercedes%20Protest%20Art.%2048.12.pdf

Max Verstappen is your WDC.

hi-ho, hi-ho, its off to court we go....

[pfc_m_drake]

Reading the decision right now...

It's interesting that one of the conclusions is the following:


That notwithstanding Mercedes’ request that the Stewards remediate the matter by amending the
classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the
Stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.

Feels weasel-wordish. I agree - it probably ends up in appeal...

[devilmaster]

I agree - it probably ends up in appeal...

Mercedes has already announced it will.

[gjc2]

Mercedes has already announced it will.

That's a bad decision.

[WickerBill]

I'm sure they wanted the season to not end behind the safety car...

but what it LOOKS like (to many people, at least) is that they wanted a new WDC. That's not great.


Bring on next year; I hope both these teams have mediocre cars for 2-3 years.

[opinionated ow]

Reading the decision right now...

It's interesting that one of the conclusions is the following:



Feels weasel-wordish. I agree - it probably ends up in appeal...

In the same way that if the chequered is flown incorrectly from the starters stand, the race ends when the flag comes out, I don't see how the race can be retrospectively shortened when cars were still rolling on the circuit. Safety car or otherwise.

[pfc_m_drake]

In the same way that if the chequered is flown incorrectly from the starters stand, the race ends when the flag comes out, I don't see how the race can be retrospectively shortened when cars were still rolling on the circuit. Safety car or otherwise.The way it read to me was, 'Well Mercedes, you might be correct about your pace car claims (we'll leave that for the courts to decide) but since we the Stewards don't agree with your suggested remedy, your protest is dismissed.'

In other wods, 'You're not necessairly wrong Mercedes...' But obviously I wasn't in the hearing and I might be reading too much into that statement.

FWIW, you'll find all sorts of crazy rulings over the years. The Indy 500 used to revert to the running order on the previous lap if there was a last lap incident (if you listen to Paul Paige's call of the 2002 race, Paul gets it wrong because they had changed the rule...but during the Tracy/Castroveves craziness following the Laziew/Redon crash Paul says 'It goes back to the last lap...' meaning Castroveves is the clear winner).

Perhaps even crazier, this year in a MotoGP Support race at COTA, Izan Guevara was declared the winner of the race following a second red flag incident (https://us.motorsport.com/moto3/news/austin-Guevara-wins-aspar-red-flags/6680526/). This was notable for 2 reasons:

1) They were on the 2nd race lap following the restart when the race was red-flagged fo a 2nd time
2) Guevara's bike was damaged in the 2nd incident, meaning he certainly could not continue if there was a 3rd restart (and was NOT leading at the time of the 2nd red flag).

Regardless, the MotoGP Stewards elected to throw out the ~2 laps following the restart and declare Guevara the winner since he lead after the first red flag.

TL;DR - Stewards can basically do whatever they want.

[TravelGal]

In the same way that if the chequered is flown incorrectly from the starters stand, the race ends when the flag comes out, I don't see how the race can be retrospectively shortened when cars were still rolling on the circuit. Safety car or otherwise.

Thank you! Geez. So much for, "We want to win it on the track, not in the gravel traps (or with the stewards)." I call BS of the stinkiest. On so many fronts. :irked:

[opinionated ow]

TL;DR - Stewards can basically do whatever they want.

I'm not au fait with the Moto2/3 regulations now but there was a time in Grand Prix Motorcycling where the two elements were added together and the rider with the lowest combined time was declared the winner in the event of a race stoppage.

[pfc_m_drake]

Yeah - and hey, how I think this should play out is the following:

The FIA and the Stewards should come out and have a press conference. Tell the world that mistakes were made and we screwed up bad. However, despite our screw-up, nothing is changing with respect to the Driver's Championship. That's Racing.

I think if they did that, it's the best way out for all. Own it and move on.

[Hard Driver]

Late to the party here, but that was just horrible officiating. Masi should be fired already.

If you didn't let the lapped cars through, and went green, OK.

If you let all the lapped cars through and went green,OK.

But only let 4 lapped cars through, Max gets all the cars removed between him and Hamilton, and yet if you are in 4th fighting for 3rd, the lapped cars don't get removed. That is messed up.

[TravelGal]

Late to the party here, but that was just horrible officiating. Masi should be fired already.

If you didn't let the lapped cars through, and went green, OK.

If you let all the lapped cars through and went green,OK.

But only let 4 lapped cars through, Max gets all the cars removed between him and Hamilton, and yet if you are in 4th fighting for 3rd, the lapped cars don't get removed. That is messed up.

:thumbup:

[datachicane]

Yep. Finishing under yellow would be infinitely preferable to this goat rodeo. Minimizing yellow finishes is one thing, but this level of arbitrary, manipulative goofiness in the avoidance of something that really is an unavoidable part of racing is downright pathological.

[stroker]

Time for Penske to commission a new white paper.

[WickerBill]

Time for Penske to commission a new white paper.

holysh you really went there. :rofl:

[stroker]

Abso-effing-lutely right I did. F1's been an administrative/rule joke for decades to me... Somebody needs to start off with a completely clean sheet of paper and design a new series.

[WickerBill]

Well, it might be one way to catapult IndyCar to the pinnacle while F1 eats itself, so maybe Roger will.