question about greg ray's indy lights...

[devilmaster]

So saw a facebook post about a guy selling a tub on facebook marketplace.

it says its greg ray's 1996 nazareth crash car. Now one of the pics shows an id plate and it does say T94/20 which is lola's indy lights car, and greg ray did run indy lights in 96, ending 18th.

So real curious to see if anyone might remember / have pics or such. I'm just shocked at the level of front damage and just wondered what happened.

[devilmaster]

ok.... further searching found it. damn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbFS-_saSc4

41 seconds in. :eek::eek::eek:

[opinionated ow]

That was a bloody solid hit. Also, Nazareth was one hell of a racy place. According to wikipedia there is a non-compete clause built into the land sale. Is it possible to get those removed if you happened to have several million dollars sitting around to get the place back in action? As far as I'm aware that kind of clause isn't allowed in freehold land purchases in Common Law jurisdictions so it comes across as a really strange thing to be attached to land you have purchased

[pfc_m_drake]

I guess my first question woud be: Why did this guy have a busted IndyLights chassis sitting in his garage for almost 30 years (and what was he hoping to do with it)? Maybe he got it in a locker on 'Storage Wars'...

@opinionated ow - I think the short answer to your question is that money solves all problems, but someone would have to have incentive to do it.

My observation would be that there were more fans in the stands that day for that IndyLights race than there are at pretty much every IndyCar race today (Long Beach and the Indy500 aside).

[SteveH]

Wish the video would have discussed what caused the crash. He hit a ton.

I think the Pikes Peak oval also has a sale restriction against future races.

[Elmo T]

Also, Nazareth was one hell of a racy place. According to wikipedia there is a non-compete clause built into the land sale. Is it possible to get those removed if you happened to have several million dollars sitting around to get the place back in action?

It has been a few years since I've been up that way, but as far as I know it still sits vacant. They cut trenches across the track I assume to prevent attempts at a hot lap. The stands were all removed and shipped off to other tracks. At least one building suffered an arson fire.

I did some poking around online and found this article from 2016:

https://www.mcall.com/business/mc-nazareth-speedway-jaindl-plans-20160415-story.html


LOWER NAZARETH TOWNSHIP — While Lehigh Valley developer David Jaindl has said he has no solid plans for the former Nazareth Speedway he recently purchased, he knows what it won't be: a racetrack.

The Orefield turkey farmer and real estate developer said in a news release Friday that a "competition clause" from the former property owner, International Speedway Corp. of Daytona Beach, Fla., precludes him from reopening the site for future racing. The condition of sale is a legally binding "restriction on all motor sports entertainment activity."

Nazareth Speedway, at Routes 191 and 248, near Nazareth Borough, closed in 2004, but during its prime had been the home track of Nazareth-area racing legend Mario Andretti and his son, Michael. Its history dates more than 100 years and evolved from a dirt track into an Indy Racing League track.

When the track's gates were shut for good, Nazareth Speedway and local officials cited a blase attitude by the community as one of the contributing factors.

I found a reference from 2017 where Jaindl presented a proposal to the Township. That is typically the very first step here in a long and sometimes cumbersome approval process (planning commission, zoning, etc). I didn't follow the trail after that other than a mention that Martin Guitar backed out.

https://lowernazareth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/082317-BOS-Minutes.pdf

[pfc_m_drake]

It has been a few years since I've been up that way, but as far as I know it still sits vacant. They cut trenches across the track I assume to prevent attempts at a hot lap. The stands were all removed and shipped off to other tracks. At least one building suffered an arson fire.

I did some poking around online and found this article from 2016:

https://www.mcall.com/business/mc-nazareth-speedway-jaindl-plans-20160415-story.html



I found a reference from 2017 where Jaindl presented a proposal to the Township. That is typically the very first step here in a long and sometimes cumbersome approval process (planning commission, zoning, etc). I didn't follow the trail after that other than a mention that Martin Guitar backed out.

https://lowernazareth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/082317-BOS-Minutes.pdf
I have a longer answer I can give you if you like...but here's the bottom line: It's going to take 9 to 10 figures to refurbish Nazareth. If I showed up with a billion dollars and told the city council, "Hey...I want to spend all this money here but there's this yellow post-it note that says I can't hold a race on this site anymore..." you really think they're going to tell me 'No.'?

Seriously? Think about it.

No piece of paper from 2017 is keeping a race from being held in Nazareth. Trust me. I mean...good for you and your Google-Fu to dig up notes from a turkey farmer from 6 years ago about a site that still sits decrepit.

So I wonder what IS keeping another race from being held at Nazareth???
A good hint would be to take a look at the IndyLights race that DM posted...guestimate the attendance...then guestimate the attendance for the 2022 IndyCar race at Texas (as just one example).

Let me know if you want to discuss further.

[SteveH]

So I wonder what IS keeping another race from being held at Nazareth???

There is no demand for ovals. Once that is accepted, then a lot of other decisions make sense, like Milwaukee, MIS and Fontana.

[Elmo T]

I have a longer answer I can give you if you like...

No piece of paper from 2017 is keeping a race from being held in Nazareth. Trust me. I mean...good for you and your Google-Fu to dig up notes from a turkey farmer from 6 years ago about a site that still sits decrepit.


No need.

I am not attributing some agreement for a closed (or not reopening) racetrack. I saw the mention of that agreement and thought "well no way anyone actually said that". Checked it out and was surprised to see that early on it was being waved around and made the news.

And that article actually noted the obvious which seemed to catch less press: "When the track's gates were shut for good, Nazareth Speedway and local officials cited a blase attitude by the community as one of the contributing factors"

That dude may have started as a turkey farmer - and likes to play that up :rolleyes: - but they are very serious & well funded developers in the Lehigh Valley. If there was money to be made in running an oval racetrack there it would be happening.

[pfc_m_drake]

No need.

I am not attributing some agreement for a closed (or not reopening) racetrack. I saw the mention of that agreement and thought "well no way anyone actually said that". Checked it out and was surprised to see that early on it was being waved around and made the news.

And that article actually noted the obvious which seemed to catch less press: "When the track's gates were shut for good, Nazareth Speedway and local officials cited a blase attitude by the community as one of the contributing factors"

That dude may have started as a turkey farmer - and likes to play that up :rolleyes: - but they are very serious & well funded developers in the Lehigh Valley. If there was money to be made in running an oval racetrack there it would be happening.
I mean, let's be fair: You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in that there is a non-compete clause that was drawn up in 2004 that said any developer may not use Nazareth Speedway for racing events anymore. But that non-compete was done in the 'Golden Age' of NASCAR to be yet another nail in the coffin of Open-Wheeled Racing (Nazareth's grandstands were moved to Watkins Glen - and I know the thinking was to try and eliminate all racing competition to NASCAR in those days).

So the non-compete exists...but that was almost 20 years ago...that was then and this is now, if you will. It wasn't so much Nazareth Community Apathy as it was ISC looking to destroy the competition through any means available...in this case a non-compete. Turkey Farmers aside :rofl:

See next post also.

[pfc_m_drake]

There is no demand for ovals. Once that is accepted, then a lot of other decisions make sense, like Milwaukee, MIS and Fontana.
I hear you but I disagree a little bit. Nazareth is too far gone BUT

In a revitalized IndyCar series (with non-spec rules and a change to the old philosophy of 'a test of man AND machine') a mix of Oval, road, and street works very well. Or at least I think it could. Three 500-mile events at Indy. Michigan, and Fontana coupled with other events at Milwaukee, Homestead, and maybe Richmond I think would go very well.

I think it goes terribly with 45-year old Scott Dixon, a 10-year old DW-12 with a spec UAK...but I think it COULD go well.

My opinion only.

[SteveH]

I hear you but I disagree a little bit. Nazareth is too far gone BUT

In a revitalized IndyCar series (with non-spec rules and a change to the old philosophy of 'a test of man AND machine') a mix of Oval, road, and street works very well. Or at least I think it could. Three 500-mile events at Indy. Michigan, and Fontana coupled with other events at Milwaukee, Homestead, and maybe Richmond I think would go very well.

I think it goes terribly with 45-year old Scott Dixon, a 10-year old DW-12 with a spec UAK...but I think it COULD go well.

My opinion only.

I would love for you to be right. There is nothing better than watching open wheel racing at MIS. That track was built specifically for that. However, there needs to be a regime change in the leadership of the series, a mindset change from the team owners and competitors and an acceptance by the public that **** happens on oval tracks. Plus feeder series absolutely must run on ovals. Without a doubt. I’m afraid it’s too easy and accept the way it is and watch the series slowly erode. A big race in May and not more than that.

[TravelGal]

A big race in May and not more than that.

The Tony George vision. Turns my stomach. And the owners went along. What a **(*^%%&*()* show if it actually comes down to that.