There could be standing starts in CART!

[Twisty Bits]

TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?ID=47466&hubName=auto_racing)

Great news!!!:thumbup:

[RaceGrrl]

I don't want standing starts in CART. Let F1 have them.

[Twisty Bits]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?????????? ???????? :saywhat:

I thought I knew you.

[RaceChic]

I don't want standing starts either, Twisty Bits. They are really exciting to watch, but I don't want CART to try and be like another series. I don't want to loose the turbos either. CART is not F1. They need to spend their efforts in marketing not trying to be someone else. :)

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by Twisty Bits
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?????????? ???????? :saywhat:

I thought I knew you.

That's what you get for thinking. :p

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by Twisty Bits
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?????????? ???????? :saywhat:

I thought I knew you.

Twisty, do you think maybe Fermi II is getting to you? just a little? I mean no offense, but lets keep rolling starts... just do them right.

Here's my opinion on how to make it better....

Each track should have an acceleration marker before the start/finish. On starts, the pole position for starts or the leader on restarts cannot accelerate before that marker. If he fails to do so, knock a 5 second penalty on the next pit stop. If the guy in second or anyone behind sits back and jumps early to cheat the leader, he gets knocked with a 5 second penalty. If there is no pit stops left near the end of the race, and since you cannot wreck an entire race for a small infraction, if someone tries to cheat after the last pit stop, threaten something like losing their fastest lap in qualifying next race.

i don't claim to have all the answers, but this should take care of some of the problems we seem to have every other race or so. Be strict and to the point, and drivers and teams won't have a loophole to jump through.

I remember old Indy 500 races where every car was ready to go on the front straight as they came around for the flag. Nowadays, the pacecar gets off the track an entire lap before the green (at most tracks) leaving the leader to pick and choose.... On some tracks, the leader brake checks the field, then guns it while still on the backstretch! Pure garbage, and the IRL allows it for the most part. At least CART is throwing the yellow from time to time. But still, some get away with it. Lay down the law, and make it stop.

Just my 2 bits.

Steve

[Warlock!]

Originally posted by RaceChic
...I don't want CART to try and be like another series.
CART used to use standing starts in the beginning...

Warlock!

[racer2c]

Originally posted by devilmaster


I remember old Indy 500 races where every car was ready to go on the front straight as they came around for the flag. Nowadays, the pacecar gets off the track an entire lap before the green (at most tracks) leaving the leader to pick and choose.... On some tracks, the leader brake checks the field, then guns it. Pure garbage, and the IRL allows it for the most part. At least CART is throwing the yellow from time to time. But still, some get away with it. Lay down the law, and make it stop.

Just my 2 bits.

Steve

I agree. It's really bad in the IRL because if you can brakecheck the guy behind you, he can't push his pedal anymore than it already is. It doesn't 'go to 11'. Momentum racing is so fun. :rolleyes:

My concern is familiarity with the Champ Car guys. I don't want a bunch of fiasco starts until they get 'used' to it. CART can't afford it.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by racer2c
I agree. It's really bad in the IRL because if you can brakecheck the guy behind you, he can't push his pedal anymore than it already is. It doesn't 'go to 11'. Momentum racing is so fun. :rolleyes:

My concern is familiarity with the Champ Car guys. I don't want a bunch of fiasco starts until they get 'used' to it. CART can't afford it.

Exactly. The problem that faces both series is, with only 19-22 drivers per race, you can't have the big disasterous starting crash a'la Kevin Cogan at Indy or the big one at Australia last year.

Steve

[Dirty Sanchez]

Standing starts. :thumbup: The most exciting few seconds in motorsports. I like the idea of CART having an actual grid before the race too, instead of the cars parallel parked in pit lane.

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by racer2c
My concern is familiarity with the Champ Car guys. I don't want a bunch of fiasco starts until they get 'used' to it. CART can't afford it.

CART already has identity issues. Even though they used standing starts long ago, people identify standing starts with F1 and CART doesn't need the confusion right now.

[JoeBob]

I'm not a huge fan of being baby F1. We've got F3000 for that. I'd much rather see (as Mario Andretti has called it) Formula One and a half. Make it F1, with a North American twist. Part of that would be rolling starts. Standing starts scream "F1-Lite."

CART's starting issues could be easily fixed by instructing the drivers not to accelerate until the green flag is waved. They should be at pace car speeds, and in alignment until the green flag is waved. The starter should keep the green flag hidden until the field is through the final turn, and in alignment for the start.

It isn't rocket science. Right now, the drivers start themselves, and the flagger decides if they were close enough. A simple "do not accelerate until the green flag is displayed" rule should do it.

[pchall]

Originally posted by JoeBob


It isn't rocket science. Right now, the drivers start themselves, and the flagger decides if they were close enough. A simple "do not accelerate until the green flag is displayed" rule should do it.

Or programming a "start speed" into the ECU and requiring the drivers hold the button until they are under the green flag.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Crapus
Standing starts. :thumbup: The most exciting few seconds in motorsports. I like the idea of CART having an actual grid before the race too, instead of the cars parallel parked in pit lane.

You bring up a good point. Even if standing starts are not implemented. Car prep on the grid would be great for the fans. It adds drama to the start.

Wouldn't tire warmers come into play with standing starts? I mean 19 cars doing smokey 30 second burnouts would be quite a spectacle, but hardly a good start for a race.

[Ankf00]

bikes do standing starts too, CART can be like AMA and FIM instead, where's the shame in that ;)

[racer2c]

Originally posted by pchall
Or programming a "start speed" into the ECU and requiring the drivers hold the button until they are under the green flag.

Or let race control handle via remote ala corner go-kart fun parks. (I used via and ala in the same sentence. Weird.):gomer:

[RaceChic]

Originally posted by Warlock!
CART used to use standing starts in the beginning...

But now it is more commonly associated with F1. I want CART's marketing to step up to the plate and give them a recognizable presence of their own. :)

[Dr. Corkski]

With CART seemingly more and more obssessed with ultra-narrow street circuits a stalled car at the front or the grid could mean an unsuspecting backmarker plowing in and flying into the fence.

[Ziggy]

Standing starts are for Formula One

and I agree with the liability statement. With so many narrow street races, this would lead to another black eye.

Here is a novel idea, why dont they enforce the rules they have for rolling starts? or is it easier to change than make the current crop of drivers learn how to do a rolling start properly?

Ziggy

(I bet if they put a few of the idiots in the back a couple of times, the rolling starts would get alot better. In the drivers defense, the new flagman seems to be a bit of a tool)

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Standing starts are for Formula One



(I bet if they put a few of the idiots in the back a couple of times, the rolling starts would get alot better. In the drivers defense, the new flagman seems to be a bit of a tool)

Come on, this is supposed to be the big time, not amateur hour at the local kart track.

[RaceGrrl]

That's his point, racer2c. There's no reason why these professional drivers shouldn't have good rolling starts.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by RaceGrrl
That's his point, racer2c. There's no reason why these professional drivers shouldn't have good rolling starts.

I don't think so. I'm sorry I even replied to this thread. :gomer:

[Railbird]

Kind of strange considering CART was the reason F/A dropped their tradition of standing starts.

[nrc]

Originally posted by racer2c
Come on, this is supposed to be the big time, not amateur hour at the local kart track.

And yet week after week the big time drivers of CART can't seem to form up as well as a typical Barber Dodge field.

Unfortunately CART fans want two different things. They want well ordered, tightly bunched starts and they want everyone to get through turn one. Those two things goals are at odds with one another and I really don't think standing starts will help with the latter.

I don't like the idea of standing starts for the same reasons mentioned above. If they do come about I'm going to enjoy complaining about them everytime the field fails to make it through turn one intact.

[RTKar]

Standing starts would be unique in North America. With three series competing for attention, standing starts in CART would help the cause of differentiating our series from all the rest. Having standing starts on road and street courses with rolling starts on ovals would also further showcase CART'S diversity.

[FRANKY]

I think standing starts would be a mistake. If they want to prove me wrong do it preseason instead of Miami.

[Turn7]

I wouldn't mind standing starts being an option. There are some circuits that a standing start would make sense and some that wouldn't.

If it was an option on the menu, it may make for a better race at some places.

Standing starts will need a light bar stretching across the track which means they will have to predetermine what venues to have a standing star way ahead of time.

[Napoleon]

I am against standing starts since I do not beleive it will make the starts any cleaner, for the reasons well stated by others above, and because I do not care for the F-1 lites aspect of it.

[JT265]

I can think of a whole lot WORSE things to be called than F1-lite.

That being said, and as Railbird mentioned, TA lost standing starts when CART took over, and a lot of the reason is cost.

Standing starts are infreakincredibly hard on CV joints, diffs, and clutches.

[Turn7]

Originally posted by JT265

Standing starts are infreakincredibly hard on CV joints, diffs, and clutches.


Why would it be any harder than doing a pit stop? Cars that are having mechanical or handling problems make several more pitstops than the others during a race, I can't imagine that adding one standing start could be anyworse than what the cars already experience.

[JT265]

Originally posted by Turn7
Why would it be any harder than doing a pit stop?


1st off, on a standing start, you have built heat into the tires, either with warmers or burnouts on the pace lap, so when you side-step the clutch at the drop of the green, you shock load the driveline BIG TIME.

Also, when a car leaves the pits after a stop, the tires are cold, break traction really easy, and the driveline is hot and oiled, much like a SoCal beach bunny. :D

When we done standing starts in Atlantic, CV joints and diffs were replaced every race, wheras when we went to rolling starts you could get quite a few more sessions out of the same stuff.

Glad you asked, T7, and thanks for writing in. :D

[JSR]

Part of me would like to see this done. I really love the start of the F1 races. But wouldn't it cost more to make this happen? I'm not so sure that making the teams spend more money is such a good idea right now.

[ChrisB]

CART used to use standing starts in the beginning...

It goes back a lot further than that too. The Vanderbilt Cup races as well as the early Indy 500's had standing starts.

F1 did NOT invent standing starts!

[Ankf00]

if BE buys CART, it'll be f1-lite anyways

[RaceChic]

I know that F1 did not invent standing starts, but that seems to be the series that it is associated with these days. I want CART to have it's own identity. :)

[Lizzerd]

There was a time when I advocated standing starts in CART, but it's time to change my tune. I've been watching this thread since the beginning and have wanted to chime in in favor of the standing starts, but the people who know far more than me about the inner workings of a race car have convinced me that it isn't a good idea. The cons in this thread have made far more compelling arguements than the pros. I thereby flip flop. Keep the rolling starts, but take better control over the spacing, alignment, and acceleration points at the time the green waves.

[Peter Venkman]

Not only do I support "standing starts", but I would also eliminate as many chicanes as possible.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Peter Venkman
Not only do I support "standing starts", but I would also eliminate as many chicanes as possible.

Hey ,that could be the differentiation between Champ Car and F1!