F3000 chassis + 750hp: would it work?

[ChrisB]

If CART gets through these trying times, they'll end up with some kind of 750hp motor, maybe a V10, or the old turbo V8. And if they don't make it, maybe some group (hopefully with SCCA-Pro sanction) will put together a new North American formula road-racing series... perhaps they could even use modified IRL V8's running on gasoline and tweaked for road-racing... those could probably get close to 750hp. Whatever.

There's 2 things I've been saying all along that go somewhat against the grain here: CART should drop the ovals, and they should go to a single-supplier spec chassis (but hopefully mulitiple engine badges). The reason for dropping ovals is to do away with the bulkier speedway chassis and lower power requirements of oval racing... thus making for a better road-race car. The reason for going to a spec chassis is to cut costs and improve parity. IMHO, the majority of fans don't really care that much about competition between chassis makers. (or, if CART dies, hopefully a replacement formula series would do these things)

I found the F3000 specs here (http://f3000.flagworld.com/en/info/2003/2003_infocarspecs/2003_infocarspecs.spy)

If I did the metric conversions right, they have about a 118" wheelbase (about 6" shorter than current Champcars) and weigh about 1200 lbs without driver and fuel (about 350lbs lighter than Champcars). They currently use 460Hp 3.0L motors. But think about it: what if a 750hp motor could be safely adapted into the F3000 chassis? 1200lbs + 750hp would make a heck of a great hp/wt ratio for road-racing! It would likely even be faster on road/street than the current heavy Champcars.

And remember, these are built by Lola, which CART/SCCA folks already have a long business relationship with. I'm sure Lola would be happy to sell a modified version of the F3000 chassis to suit a 750hp motor. Maybe even a version without an airbox :) It doesn't have to be exactly like F3000, just something that uses most of the existing tooling for favorable costs and availability.

F3000 chassis + 750hp: would it work? Thoughts anyone?


http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/big_01_800_reduced.jpg


This pic is a reduced version, the original is here (http://www.f3000.com/2002/img/big_01_800.jpg) )

[JT265]

Wait!!!! NOT AGAIN!!!!!! :D

In a word, why not? (ok, two words then);)

IIRC, this chassis is built to the same dimensions as an F1 chassis, they already fit a 3 Liter engine, so I say bring it on.

Besides, if we are gonna be American Grand Prix, or F1 lite, F2, or some such, we may as well go for broke, in my view. And at the risk of getting hammered by the faithful, depending on what happens with ISC re: Fontana, I wouldn't be overly morose at the loss of the ovals.

Seriously, a common chassis with multiple engine mfg. on board would make a ton of sense at this stage.

[nrc]

I don't know if an F3000 chasis would be safe enough at the speeds that you would see with a 750 hp engine. When they ran them in Indy Lights they used minimum rear wing angles to keep the speeds around 170 at Fontana and Michigan. Even without those tracks on the schedule you could easily have high speed wall impacts in places like Long Beach, Toronto or Vancouver.

The size sounds about right so you might be able to get Lola to do a beefed up version of the same design.

And lose the airbox, of course. :)

[Ankf00]

mandate a price cap if you must and let whoever wants to make chassis make em.

[Climber]

A common chassis with multiple engine manufacturers would make sense in the short term. Competition among all manufactures - chassis and engines - with the ability of the teams to choose and engineer as they see fit is the obvious pereference, but maybe not the practical one for the next year or so. Obviously, these cars can run road courses, but with a proper wing package, couldn't a F3000 chassis run ovals?

[Dr. Corkski]

Why not use the SWS Dallaras? AFAIK they are far cheaper, produce much better races than F3000, and are pretty similar in terms of speed, with the SWS cars being less powerful but having more downforce.

[mapguy]

Tube frames.

[Ankf00]

Originally posted by mapguy
Tube frames.

lets just bring back the 935 and tear off the wheel wells so as to expose the tires ;) I mean, tube frame, big honkin rear wing, exposed wheels, yeehaw. hehe

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Ankf00
mandate a price cap if you must and let whoever wants to make chassis make em.

I think implementing price caps and allowing multiple constructors is not feasible, unless the chassis regulations are extremely restricting, thus, negating the need (and therefore cost) of chassis development throughout the season.

What is the IRL's policy on mid-season chassis development?

[mapguy]

Originally posted by Ankf00
lets just bring back the 935 and tear off the wheel wells so as to expose the tires ;) I mean, tube frame, big honkin rear wing, exposed wheels, yeehaw. hehe

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

http://www.fast-autos.net/porsche/935md.jpg



http://www.endurancesportscar.com/photo/seb8308t.jpg

[Ankf00]

whale tail baby :cool:



Originally posted by Chaos
I think implementing price caps and allowing multiple constructors is not feasible, unless the chassis regulations are extremely restricting, thus, negating the need (and therefore cost) of chassis development throughout the season.

What is the IRL's policy on mid-season chassis development?

if you're going spec, you have a price cap anyways, let whoever wants to build under this price build under this price, you're going to get spec car quality with some innovation, but if it's spec car prices, it's spec car quality in the end...

[cartcanuck]

If you do that, then why not just create an F2-America with 750 horses, and an F2-Europe with their cars. Take two races each year and let the opposing contintent's drivers come over, and race on the other tracks with the other F2's cars. No tranportation, just a little cross-training :)

I dunno, I still like the idea of a screaming turbo. And wouldn't it be cheaper than a wound up V10 running over 14,000 RPM?

And would these F3000/F2/Fwhatever chassis actually be any less expensive than running the current Champ Car Lola's? What is the current cost comparison...anyone know?

BTW, I'd miss ovals, but would love to see a better road racing car in North American OW racing.

[JT265]

Originally posted by Chaos
What is the IRL's policy on mid-season chassis development?

Which day of the week?

[nz_climber]

Originally posted by JT265
Originally posted by Chaos
What is the IRL's policy on mid-season chassis development?
Which day of the week?

I thinks it also depends on the manufacturer :rolleyes:

[ChrisB]

I've been away this week, so this is my first chance to respond. Another possibile alternative to the Lola F3000 chassis could also be a modified version of the Reynard Premier1 chassis. I can't find any page with Reynard Premier1 specs, but this page (http://www.racinglines.com/article/articleview/1760/1/58) says it was to have a 4.0L 750hp V10 and this page (http://www.premier1grandprix.com/news_reynardquestions.html) says they wanted it to have as close to F1 performace as possible, but without many of the electronic driver aids. Here's a pic of the chassis (reduced from original to fit the forum).

http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/Premier1ReynardHi_reduced.jpg