Road America's future

[Napoleon]

This doesn't sound good.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/race/jan03/111170.asp

[mapguy]

This calls for a colourful metaphor.

[mnkywrch]

This is what I see as the downside of the move towards international (outside of North America) events and street races.

CART without Elkhart Lake? :shakehead

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
CART without Elkhart Lake? :shakehead

IMO, won't happen.

[mapguy]

Originally posted by Napoleon
IMO, won't happen.

I think that you may be right. CART has to keep Elkhart. It is the last un-bastardized great road course in the world.

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by Napoleon
IMO, won't happen.

I think it will.

1) CART can't get a big sanctioning fee out of Road America
2) Elkhart Lake is "too close" to Milwaukee
3) Haas is linked to Milwaukee, so as long as he's in CART, they'll run Milwaukee.
4) Pook needs to get CART into more new markets.

I think Mid-Ohio will eventually be dropped for the same reason - they're already in Cleveland...

Weren't Mid-Ohio and Elkhart Lake linked to the "Promoter's Revolt"?

I can also see Laguna Seca dropped for a San Francisco street race.

Which leaves Portland as the only natural terrain road circuit in the United States.

[Foxman]

In my mind at least RA is the best track cart races on, it has low speed corners (a few) and many medium to high speed corners that seem to have been forgotten on many other circuits - Nothing can replace seeing a car go through the kink flat at 180.

[mapguy]

2) Elkhart Lake is "too close" to Milwaukee


I think Mid-Ohio will eventually be dropped for the same reason - they're already in Cleveland...

I don't think so. They have been running like that for over a decade now and I don't see it changing.

Heck, the wankers race at Joliet, Gateway and KY and they are similar distances to Indy.

[edit]

Quick everyone! Look at my post total! :)

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
I think it will.


3) Haas is linked to Milwaukee, so as long as he's in CART, they'll run Milwaukee.


He is linked to RA also, serving on their board. I think those tracks were related to the promoters revolt (like cleveland and a few of the street courses were) because they were on the high end of what is being paid in sanction fees. Both still draw good crowds.

[chop456]

If it happens, I'll have another free weekend during the summer.

The EARL would have to undercut them so badly for RA to profit, it would be ridiculous. That is not an "event" track. The people who attend are race fans, and don't want to see the EARL. I would be willing to bet that you could cut attendance by 50% the first year, easily.

Pook knows what's up.

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by mapguy
I don't think so. They have been running like that for over a decade now and I don't see it changing.


True, but they haven't been so anxious to expand the schedule as they are now.

They can't go to too many more races, so races have to come off the schedule.

[pchall]

I think Fred Nation or one of his minions sent another e-mail and promised a steak dinner.

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by pchall
I think Fred Nation or one of his minions sent another e-mail and promised a steak dinner.

So when does Pook get his dinner?


"That's something we have to discuss, where we are and where they want to be," Pook said Thursday. "Do they want one of our races or do they not want one of our races? We've got to work our way through that process."

Road America's contract with the series, signed in 1999, is up after this season.

The track's CART stop is set for Aug. 3 this season, two weeks earlier than its traditional position on the calendar. By changing the date after CART had announced its schedule, a presumption could be made that the track and series are headed in different directions.

"That's the message," Pook said, "isn't it?"

And the guy's article on the Milwaukee race was such a hack job (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/race/jan03/111293.asp) too, .... :rolleyes:

[Gurneyflap]

The whole idea is repugnant! Nothing is so certain as CHANGE! Some changes we like, some we don't. That one would be off the charts (for this fan). Ahhh, me...guess I'd have to make do with the Brian Redman International Challenge vintage races. It's already become my favorite race weekend of the year. The races, the concours, the parade, Siebkens...there, it worked! I've distracted myself! Nap, DESTROY this whole topic!

[pchall]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
So when does Pook get his dinner?



And the guy's article on the Milwaukee race was such a hack job (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/race/jan03/111293.asp) too, .... :rolleyes:

Owwww... the dreaded rolleyes. That really stung me. :p

The papers in Milwaukee and Madison were major centers of IRL inspired Doom and Gloom last year. I take this to be an extension of that. Pook mentioned that details of a new sanctioning agreement needed to be worked out. And the writer spun it in the worst possible light.

[rabbit]

Dave Kallmann is not a D&Ger, trust me.

[TrueBrit]

Originally posted by mapguy
Quick everyone! Look at my post total! :)

Mapguy you are a goof!!!:rofl:

On Topic...CART without RA would a terrible shame..It is w/out doubt on of the best road courses in the world IMO..

TB

[Warlock!]

Originally posted by mapguy
Quick everyone! Look at my post total! :)

Yeah baybee... YEAH!!!

Winter Warlock!

[Peter Venkman]

"Heck, the wankers race at Joliet, Gateway and KY and they are similar distances to Indy."

Yeah, but you don't know what Indy means....

Just ask Al Drunkard Junior.

[Gurneyflap]

Peter, please...that's why we're HERE.

[RTKar]

Anything is possible, after all F1 won't be racing at Spa but it seems to me I've heard this argument before from RA and CART a couple of other times when the contract has been up for renewal. I certainly wouldn't be happy if CART didn't race their and I don't want to think of that possibility.

[RARules]

IMO...

Road America is the epitome of road racing circuits in the US.
CART is the epitome of road racing in the US.
Need I say more?

Champ cars going up the hill to the start finish line are great, as they are going into turn 5.

Road America has become the soul of CART - to many of us at least. It would be very sad if they didn't work together and continue to race there for a long time!

[rocket]

I'll worry about it next year:( . As far as this year goes, the plans have been made and are in the book already. I think they wil continue up at RA in the future, if not, I will only pay to see the ALMS series up there.

[nrc]

I've said it before. The tilt is already too far toward street races. If CART throws out their classic American natural terrain road courses they will be lost. Those venues are the heart of CART's most loyal fan base.

Remember all the hoopla about the Columbus town meeting? That was provided by Mid-Ohio fans. At that event Pook seemed to clearly understand the importance of Mid-Ohio and Road America.


I think there's a real delicate balance here. We have to respect the permanent courses we have left in this country. We've really got to work around these issues. It's important to do street racing, but it's equally as important to make sure our permanent courses remain healthy, because that's where the bulk of the testing takes place. We have to have places for these teams to test. We've got to keep them healthy. That's really critical to us.

So either Pook's perception of this has changed, or the pressure is coming from the other side. Road America playing hard to get, potentially because of a sweet sponsorship offer from Honda or Toyota.

Road America needs to understand that if CART fans see them as throwing CART out they'll get the same cold shoulder from most CART fans as all the other defectors.

[cart7]

Here's the things I see as troubling.
1. Pook talking about bringing races back to metro area's closer to the fans.

2. Looking at a map and, w/o needing a major in geography, realizing that R/A, M/O and Laguna aren't near the major metro area's.

3. All three races have seen declining attendance.

4. Pook saying they're re-accessing ALL their venues.

Hmmm... I'll hope for the best but Pook's posturing on R/A doesn't feel right.

[Gurneyflap]

Keep some road courses so CART has a place to TEST!!? That's rich! The direction of this whole thing sickens me.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Gurneyflap
The direction of this whole thing sickens me.

This was just some article from someone who has his own spin. Don't get your undies in a bunch over it. I really do not see it happening.

[Turn7]

Road American needs to produce one of two things to stay on the schedule.

People at the race. The race will have to draw a significantly larger race attendance in the future.

or

People watching on TV. Last year the practice session drew a larger audience than the race. It was the first year on Speed and the network surely is experienceing a growing audience. Hopefully, the numbers will improve for RA.


If you look at the race from a business perspective, it clearly shows that the majority of the race fans don't care for RA.


Don't get me wrong, I really enjot RA. It is the only race that I have traveled across the country to attend and I will do it again this year.

The facts are talking and the facts need to change for it to remain on the schedule. This is why CART going public really sucks.

[Napoleon]

more fuel for the fire

http://www.wisinfo.com/sheboyganpress/news/archive/local_8195425.shtml

[mnkywrch]

Is it the fault of the track that CART doesn't draw as many as it used to at RA... despite the problems CART has had in the past few seasons?

Is some of it the track's fault? Probably.

Is some of it CART's fault? Probably.

But, yeah, it's the F1 equivalent of dropping Spa...

[Gurneyflap]

Well, PERFECT! How does all this fit in with our "2 new in-town" markets for '04? All I'll say is Pook is doing nothing other than what he said he would, so I shouldn't be surprised. Houston in, RA out. Man, the prospect of another 1.6 mile concrete canyon of a track with a 78mph lap speed just FILLS me with anticipation! Yes, undies bunched, cheeks clenched and that line in the sand I drew across the main gate at RA is still there. So, when do you think Penske will test a car up there with a new gearbox?

[Gurneyflap]

PS-That... "the majority of race fans don't care for RA" certainly includes all the old fat people who want to sit on their asses like they're watching TV or something! I assume you include NASCAB fans? Then of COURSE you are correct. Hell, the majority of race fans don't like CART, Paul Tracy OR open wheel single seaters, either. How many of you have even SEEN "The Kink"? I have never seen more than 3-4 other people when I hike down there, ('cause ya really can't SEE crap, it's a SOUND experience!)...and watching from up in the Carousel doesn't count! Pete Rozelle? Major markets? SOME race fans are SCREWED! Don't bother to write me from Texas, I'll be watching old Can Am cars blow through Hurry Downs!

[Gurneyflap]

And PPS- Of course I am NOT looking at it from a business perspective and never will. For me it's all about the senses, the racing, and the atmosphere...and I can "party" just as well in a green Wisconsin field as I can in some damn yuppie bar telling lies about all the money I make!...NOW, If a lakefront festival of a race in CHICAGO centered around the "New" Soldier Field ends up being the replacement venue...THEN we have something to talk about!

[RTKar]

Originally posted by Gurneyflap
Houston in, RA out. Man, the prospect of another 1.6 mile concrete canyon of a track with a 78mph lap speed just FILLS me with anticipation! Yes, undies bunched, cheeks clenched and that line in the sand I drew across the main gate at RA is still there.

I have to agree. Do you just throw race dates at major cities simply because sponsors think they'll get ROI from them or do you you cultivate a true RACING series that challenges the participants, venues that test the competition in the truest sense of the word? Have we simply changed which fox is watching the hen house from the manufacturers to the remaining sponsors. If CART is going down, I'd rather see it at 200 mph versus 78!

[nrc]

You can't just count the attendance to measure the value of an event to the series. And TV ratings have much more to do with weather and programming conflicts than any particular venue.

Road America and Mid-Ohio are at the very heart of CART's American fan support. They provide critical balance to the schedule. CART needs to be careful that they don't become so focused on individual markets that they produce a product that nobody cares to watch when it's outside their market.

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by nrc
CART needs to be careful that they don't become so focused on individual markets that they produce a product that nobody cares to watch when it's outside their market.

It's not only about watching televised races. If CART leaves my favorite venues, I'll be less interested in watching the series on tv and I'll also be less likely to spend money going to CART races.

I'm happy to support the series that makes me happy, but if they kill the joy, they don't get my money.

[RaceChic]

PLEEEEEEEEEASE NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! :cry: :mad: :mad: :confused:

[RaceGrrl]

I have to believe that Pook is smart enough to do whatever it takes to keep CART racing at RA. I also have to believe that the people at RA want to keep fans coming through the gates there. Now maybe they don't care if they're CART fans or IRL fans, but the reality is that CART has well attended races, and the IRL does not. The other reality is that money talks, and we know Toyota doesn't mind throwing around the cash.

I just could not, as a CART fan, continue to support my favorite tracks if the ChampCars were replaced by crapwagons. The racing at MidOhio hasn't historically been the best, but I love that place and feel connected to it because it was where I saw my first race. I haven't been to RA yet, but it is arguably the best race on the schedule, and I'm sure I'd feel the same way about RA.

I'm just hoping for the best and trying to trust that this is just run-of-the-mill press release business speak.

[RaceChic]

Originally posted by RaceGrrl
I have to believe that Pook is smart enough to do whatever it takes to keep CART racing at RA.

I just could not, as a CART fan, continue to support my favorite tracks if the ChampCars were replaced by crapwagons.


:saywhat: Ditto!!!!:mad: