View Full Version : The nice part is the end game is apon us
Moto-Guzzi
08-14-03, 02:10 PM
It's finally time to lay the cards on the table. What an ardous journey it has been! The ups and downs of CART since it's peak in the mid 90's has been anything but dull.
But now most agree it's now or never. David Phillips says we will all know by Labor day if CART has a future is some form. I am very glad of that. This fretting over CARTS future has gotten to be to much for me. I have tried many times to not let it bother me, and many have offered a shoulder to cry on. But atlast we will know soon, a buyer rides in to go private, or she's shuts down and gets sold off in pieaces. Either way it was fun racing. I raise my glass to years more to come!!:)
racer2c
08-14-03, 02:18 PM
Cheers! I wrote a similar thread but I think I'm on everyones ignore list. ;)
The IRL will never gain a fan in me upon CARTs demise. Neither will NAPCAR.
It's been a fabulous ride and as they say, all things must end. CART lasted longer than they predicted and gave us the best racing on the planet.
Time to order my JPM Williams hat...
Is this thing on? (knock, knock, knock)
DjDrOmusic
08-14-03, 02:36 PM
Yes it's on racer2c! I guess I'm just in denial, but I still believe strongly that CART is going on for years to come with new owners who will do all the right things, but if it does go away, I'll devote more time to F1 again, and try to figure out what to do on weekends, kind of like when the Browns were carpetbagged and I didn't watch football for 3 years.
It's been a great ride and we'll always be able to say we saw auto racing at it's pinnacle. As for me, I'll concentrate more on F1 and ALMS, perhaps become involved in SCCA.
I wonder what will become of these forums? :confused:
'Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.
racer2c
08-14-03, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by rabbit
'Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.
That's beautiful man. :(
Dr. Corkski
08-14-03, 05:50 PM
Labor Day of what? 2010?
Lizzerd
08-14-03, 06:51 PM
Bluto:What?! Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: It ain't over now! For when the goin' gets tough,..............the tough get going! Who's with me!? LET'S GO! C'MON! OOOOOOOOOOOO!
Classic Apex
08-14-03, 07:17 PM
NEVER doubt a true genius . . .
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/151/3101.jpg
I survived the last baseball strike and haven't resumed attending 30-40 games a year like I once did, most of them in the bleachers at Wrigley...I survived by focussing more on racing. If it's the end. I'll probably focus more on F1( maybe a trip to Europe) and possibly ALMS and start fishing more than I have in the last few years. I'll surely save some money without Champcar...I've always wanted to do Skip Barber too...:p
JohnHKart
08-14-03, 08:11 PM
I am starting to get so depressed about all of this.
JH
Railbird
08-14-03, 10:32 PM
The CART that I really enjoyed died a few years back.
If the rumored new owners provide a decent mix of road and streets it will still be the most important road racing series in North America.
I could get into details but I don't want to break up the pity party.
Originally posted by Railbird
I could get into details but I don't want to break up the pity party.
Well your in deep kaka 'bird. We got one going here and they got one going in Trackforum.
I say screw it and let the playas handle it. I can't do nothing but enjoy it while its here. So, that is all I am going to do.
RaceGrrl
08-14-03, 10:57 PM
I'm not worrying. I'm not D&Ging either. More racing yet this season. I'll worry about later, well... later.
A picture is worth a thousand words: :gomer: :p :laugh:
I'm with Railbird. The CART I knew and followed since the beginning died a few years ago. Maybe it'll be a Phoenix, maybe not. But for me there is always F1 and ALMS. Haven't cared about NAPCAR since they stopped being STOCK and NEVER cared about Tony's vision. It's been quite a ride. Going public was the beginning of the end since the ONLY reason was so the founders could ca$h out.
Wolverine
08-15-03, 07:29 AM
John Wayne said it best, and he must have been talking about CART - "Life's hard, but it's even harder when you're stupid."
Moto-Guzzi
08-15-03, 09:44 AM
Ok you guys, give me a break with the, "the CART I know and loved died a few years ago" stuff!!
CART Still runs very cool, very poewerfull cars with a variety of talented drivers from multipal places on earth. They still run on a variety of tracks. They still run 2.65 turbos. We still managed to run 3 ovals this year.
I'll give you they only have one common engine, but thats not much diffrent than the first few years of CART. And unless you like to root for a particular engine company there's little diffrence, except far fewer engine failurs. A Chassie freez, you have it there, that's new but temporary. And alot of the big money is not there.
However if you step back and don't micro examine the series, the on track product looks remarkably simmilar to it's past. Sure the racing is quite a bit better this year than in the last couple but overall it's much the same.
If you want to hang your hat on this "the real CART died" then go ahead. I'm sure you can respond with lots of reasons to support your point of view. But I can still sit down on a CART weekend and watch the coolest race cars on earth, race with cool dudes driving them and it takes me away to a better place. So for me CART is still alive.
Warlock!
08-15-03, 10:19 AM
Ya know... last year about this time, Anita told me, "All things change... it's inevitable". Maybe she was right ;).
That said, I gotta agree w/ Moto-Guzzi. He gets it!
Warlock!
Mike Kellner
08-15-03, 11:25 AM
My feeling is, if it makes it, great, if it doesn't, so it goes. There will be some other form of high level road racing in the US. The experiment where the road and oval fans joined and had one series which was stronger and better than either could be alone was working till Tony ruined it. Because of that, I will never follow his series, even if it becomes all road and street races except Indy. I am enjoying the heck out of this year's F1 season. I really do not need IndyCar racing the way I used to.
To paraphrase the Lemi, I got over it.
ó«
Eagle104
08-15-03, 12:05 PM
(paraphrase)"...we were ready to take on the world, then the grandson did this..."
Btw: my WRC hat arrived in the mail yesterday...........
I'm over it and have been for a while.
I was a bigger NASCAR fan (yeah, that's right I said it) than CART before around 1993 and this year I'm back where I was in the early 90s. If CART goes under I'll turn my attention back to NASCAR full-time.
Originally posted by Eagle104
Btw: my WRC hat arrived in the mail yesterday...........
My WilliamsBMW F1 hat is on the way, and will join my Orange Arrows hat. I'm really getting into F1 more than ever this year!
Unfortunately, the hat that fits the best is my orange 7G hat! Is that so wrong? :)
Mike Kellner
08-15-03, 01:26 PM
There still is a market for top level road racing in the USA and Canada, if not all of North and South America. If CART folds, someone will fill that need. It may be open wheel, it may be sports cars. I doubt it will be the Hapless IRL. Apparently, the old CART teams don't like to have to change wings, and setups anymore, and the original IRL teams can barely afford one set of equipment. They all seem happy just to run Indy and a bunch of worthless races in the middle of nowhere, in front of no one.
There are a dozen or more good road races on the CART schedule that will need race cars next year. People waving money will find someone who will provide for their desires.
It ain't over, no matter what happens. It is just a change.
mk
FCYTravis
08-15-03, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by RichK
My WilliamsBMW F1 hat is on the way, and will join my Orange Arrows hat. I'm really getting into F1 more than ever this year!
Unfortunately, the hat that fits the best is my orange 7G hat! Is that so wrong? :) Hey, it matches your car. ;)
Peter Venkman
08-15-03, 03:37 PM
I go along with both Railbird and Kellner.
And like DaveL, I'm over it.
F1, SWC, WRC and ALMS... I'm happy with it.
There is no IRL in my future, period.
Originally posted by Mike Kellner
My feeling is, if it makes it, great, if it doesn't, so it goes. There will be some other form of high level road racing in the US. The experiment where the road and oval fans joined and had one series which was stronger and better than either could be alone was working till Tony ruined it. Because of that, I will never follow his series, even if it becomes all road and street races except Indy. I am enjoying the heck out of this year's F1 season. I really do not need IndyCar racing the way I used to.
To paraphrase the Lemi, I got over it.
ó«
Mike (and also DaveL) nails it. Tony can pound sand for all I care. And for all the lemmings who think that all the C^RT fans will flock to the irl when it folds? Eff U.
wow,,, thats some real cheery stuff. great rationalizations, its over anyway? oh well,, this is like 1965 when a full scale change hit indy. It was over for those guys when jack brabham showed up. This post is a very deja vuhhoooy reminder of that sad lament from many many cheif mechanics. I picture refugees walking away with boxes of cart souvenirs on their heads... YUP thats right ,, I dont think its over.. and I got nothing to lose. If it isnt I think you all should come to st pete in 04. It would make you all feel so much better.....paper
All this has me stumped! All the people who are said to be buying CART are very successful, smart people. Also heavily involved in racing. Passionatly involved in racing! Why this makes some people think that CART will not be around anymore, or will morph into something that race fans will not like is beyond me. If I am missing something here and CART,in fact,does bite the big one, than I will still have World Super Bikes, Moto GP, F1 and ALMS. Not to mention Trans Am. I think I can get by;).
Originally posted by RichK
My WilliamsBMW F1 hat is on the way, and will join my Orange Arrows hat. I'm really getting into F1 more than ever this year!
Unfortunately, the hat that fits the best is my orange 7G hat! Is that so wrong? :)
have had the BMW.Williams.F1 hat, have had the Subaru WRC hat and have on my Totti giallorossi #10, think I'll be busy enough :)
Forza Roma!
Merda Lazio!
pinniped
08-17-03, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Mike Kellner
My feeling is, if it makes it, great, if it doesn't, so it goes. There will be some other form of high level road racing in the US. The experiment where the road and oval fans joined and had one series which was stronger and better than either could be alone was working till Tony ruined it. Because of that, I will never follow his series, even if it becomes all road and street races except Indy. I am enjoying the heck out of this year's F1 season. I really do not need IndyCar racing the way I used to.
To paraphrase the Lemi, I got over it.
ó«
I agree entirely, but especially with the first part of your post! The worst that can happen will still leave a lot of racing talent and a lot of lucrative venues out there to snapped up by some kind of series. We've seen Can-Am, the f5000, then CART reign as the leading U.S. roadracing series...there will always be one. The future will look brighter to all once the whole mess settles.
RR. RS.
08-17-03, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by paper
I dont think its over.. and I got nothing to lose. If it isnt I think you all should come to st pete in 04. It would make you all feel so much better.....paper
Just made my hotel reservations for St. Pete last week. It will be another great week and start to the 2004 season!
Originally posted by paper
wow,,, thats some real cheery stuff. great rationalizations, its over anyway? oh well,, this is like 1965 when a full scale change hit indy. It was over for those guys when jack brabham showed up. This post is a very deja vuhhoooy reminder of that sad lament from many many cheif mechanics. I picture refugees walking away with boxes of cart souvenirs on their heads... YUP thats right ,, I dont think its over.. and I got nothing to lose. If it isnt I think you all should come to st pete in 04. It would make you all feel so much better.....paper
The things that drew me to Cart years ago have been fading the last couple years. Whatever comes out of this and whatever it's called, won't be the Cart I came to become the big fan of. I'm like a lot of Cart fans, the diversity of venues, drivers, teams, manufacturers, etc. is what kept me on the edge of my seat from race to race. If that's not there anymore, I don't have as much interest. I'll satisfy my interest watching other series that fulfill that. I'm not going to hang onto a series that's calling itself Cart when that series barely resembles what it was in it's heyday. That's definitely something the future owners of Cart need to keep in mind when they take the series over and start mucking up whats left of a rather successful formula.
Championship Auto Racing Teams was formed to break the hold that IMS had over the sport and turn it into a profitable venture for the participants. They succeeded, yet, in it's time of trial, failed because the individual members wouldn't show solidarity to the original idea. What's left are tatters of the "White paper" to work from. I'm not sure I'm really going to be that interested in a series that runs "urban" events only, regardless of the reason. No more than I'm interested in a series running manipulated races on ovals only.
What's going to happen, regardless of what CART turns into is some self described racing expert will declare in a newspaper article that TG has won the war. Not hardly. TG hasn't won me, nor will he. And that is the only war that matters to me.
My choice of open wheel series to support doesn't have to be domestic and my choice of domestic series to support doesn't have to be openwheel.
There are plenty of flavors of ice cream available, I don't have to choose lemming.
Originally posted by SteveH
My choice of open wheel series to support doesn't have to be domestic and my choice of domestic series to support doesn't have to be openwheel.
That's beautiful. :thumbup: My nomination for post of the month.
oddlycalm
08-20-03, 05:26 PM
I've supported CART, and will continue to in the event it survives and continues to make sense. I have no interst in Motorock festivals. I will work tirelessly with our event organizers and community leaders to block any IRL event from ever appearing on our local track schedule. As ours is a track owned by the city, and within the city limits, there are a lot of ways to goof up the process for those that are knowledgable of both racing and the civic process.
As far as TV viewing is concerned, MotoGP absolutely eclipses any other form of road racing currnently IMO. F1 has recently improved dramatically. As for attending races, I will adjust according to the changes as they are made.
I do have one observation to make. When World Superbike outdraws CART or ALMS by large multiples at Laguna, and when MotoGP is outdrawing F1 at European venues, it is safe to say that professional road racing could stand to stand having some of the excitement put back in. Speed World Challenge is also much more exciting than Trans Am. While safety should never be compromised, safety procedures are sufficiently established that auto racing sanctioning bodies should be able to achieve both exciting racing and safety. CART and F1 have both made strides this season, but much more needs to be done, and done right away.
Organizing bodies need to rethink a lot of the 'accepted safety wisdom' that has turned out to be dead wrong. Get rid of the stupid chicanes that cause more wrecks than they save. Lose the big wings and rely rather on undertray downforce. Go to wider tires as well. CART was smart to dump traction control, and F1 nearly made that move, as well they should have.
oc
pinniped
08-25-03, 02:15 AM
I'll continue to support CART or whatever comes of it...would be nice if it includes a couple of ovals...Fontana last year was awesome...I used to not care so much about the IRL, but the hammer comment, and their "put CART out of business" approach will prevent me from being a fan...I will go follow NASCAR first...sprint cars even...maybe motogp...but not hIRL
Napoleon
08-26-03, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by pinniped
I'll continue to support CART or whatever comes of it...would be nice if it includes a couple of ovals...Fontana last year was awesome...I used to not care so much about the IRL, but the hammer comment, and their "put CART out of business" approach will prevent me from being a fan...I will go follow NASCAR first...sprint cars even...maybe motogp...but not hIRL
:thumbup:
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