spec chassis

[Ankf00]

ASSUMING this is the route CART is going in, for the sake of discussion, how do they keep a maker from gouging prices the way swift does for atlantics chassis?

[ChrisB]

I would guess that as part of the bidding process, the chassis price and a breakdown of the major parts costs must be provided up front.


(BTW... nothing personal against Lola or Reynard... but I would LOVE to see AAR win the contract!)

[Chaos]

ChrisB, are they still in the chassis business?

[ChrisB]

Well, the facilities are described here (http://www.allamericanracers.com/brochure1.html) and I guess they're still functional. But if it's gonna be a spec series, the notion of it being a field full of Cosworth-Eagles would be VERY cool!

[Ankf00]

but then we're doing IRL style price ceilings, so who's to say we don't get a totally sh***y product for that low price?

[Dr. Corkski]

Don't let Carl Haas be the sole distributor of the chassis.

[JT265]

Originally posted by Ankf00
but then we're doing IRL style price ceilings, so who's to say we don't get a totally sh***y product for that low price?

Good point. Like Doc says, DON'T let Carl mess with the distribution, but 1st off, put it out to tender to your specs and see who submits a proposal.

There isn't a manufacturer on the planet that does high volume, (insert IRL joke here if you choose ;) ), so the prospect should be enticing to anyone with an R&D facility and an autoclave.

Once the molds are made and the corners are machined to your specs, it's just a matter of pumping them out. The entire Swift Atlantic deal is a study on how NOT to do it, making 'king Hiro, and Carl richer in the process.

An example of that is, when we ran the old .008 chassis, we had an autoclave in Montreal that could turn out sidepods for $800 a pair. when Carl got wind of it, they had Swift bury a microchip in their pods, which sold for the low low bargain basement price of $2800 EACH. If tech couldn't read a chip in your pods or wing assemblies, you didn't pass tech. Then they wonder why car counts are at an all time low.

And Chris, while the idea of a revival Eagle is way cool, I don't know whether Dan has the stomach for another kick at the can, nor how much development the chassis would need.

Would be fun tho'.

[oddlycalm]

Regarding the comment on AAR producing enough chassis for the series, they would have to make a substantial investement (read get a substantial loan) in order to do that kind of volume. The facilities they have were intended to produce a very finite number of rolling chassis. It could be done in a pinch, but they would need a lot of lead time.

oc

[ChrisB]

Here's reduced pics of the Premier1 and Lola F3000 spec chassis. Both are intended to have very similar dimensions as F1 cars. The Premier1 was intended to be run with 750hp... so maybe the turbo Cosworth would work in it. I guess F3000 are designed for 450hp, but apparently some F1 engines really have been run in F3000 chassis, but only for testing.

http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/Premier1ReynardHi_reduced.jpg

http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/big_01_800_reduced.jpg

Nice looking chassis! And apparently they cost less than Champcar chassis. I'm curious to see what they would look like w/o airboxes.

[nz_climber]

That Premier1 chassis looks like it could be made to work (with out the stupid air thingy at the top!)

Btw:
Did Premier1 ever get off the ground? or did it die before they even turned a wheel??

[Jag_Warrior]

It died an unmerciful death, Climber. Never turned a competitive wheel.

Hey JT, something I don't understand. Why did the cars fail tech when they didn't activate the chip detector? Did Carl have some sort of exclusive deal on parts? Was it a patent problem? And how did Penske get away with his development of the Reynard? Was Reynard less greedy... or did CART simply have a wink-wink-nod-nod thing going with Carl?

Sounds like in terms of greed, Carl is second only to Cap Liverspots.

[JT265]

Originally posted by Jag_Warrior
It died an unmerciful death, Climber. Never turned a competitive wheel.

Hey JT, something I don't understand. Why did the cars fail tech when they didn't activate the chip detector? Did Carl have some sort of exclusive deal on parts? Was it a patent problem? And how did Penske get away with his development of the Reynard? Was Reynard less greedy... or did CART simply have a wink-wink-nod-nod thing going with Carl?

Sounds like in terms of greed, Carl is second only to Cap Liverspots.

J_W, in '98 and early '99, most people realized that the "exclusivity" of the Swift chassis, which was a 1st class POS compared to the Ralt that it replaced, was simply a ploy to fatten Carl and 'king Hiro's wallets. The replacement parts, such as pods, noses, wing assemblies and uprights were in some cases as expensive as the current Reynards. So, most teams (and certainly ours) looked into jobbers that could fabricate to the same tolerances, (which really wasn't that hard to do, trust me ;) ) but at a fraction of the cost.

When Carl realized that the big truck that shows up at all the events was leaving on Sunday night with the cash bags only half full, they invoked the "exclusivity" rule, and a faxed amendment to the rulebook showed up in every shop, making "genuine Swift components" mandatory.

Penskes deal with Adrian was less clear, and although I have no 1st hand info, I would guess that Adrian is more of a racer than a bidnezzman, and welcomed development of his chassis.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well, I'll be a three-legged dog with an itch.

Thanks, JT. I didn't know that sort of thing had gone on.

[nz_climber]

Thanks for that jt and jag, I learn something everyday :)

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Jag_Warrior
Well, I'll be a three-legged dog with an itch.


LOL!!!!

[JT265]

No prob guys. Remember, soap operas are a mirror of real life. And racing mirrors real life soap operas to a "T".

Oh, and I'd rather be a four legged dog with a b itch. :D

[jonovision_man]

Premier 1:
http://www.premier1grandprix.com/

"Premier1 Grand Prix has revised and confirms its start date as 2004."

:rolleyes: I'll believe it when I see it!

The F3000 is basically a dumbed down F1 chassis, same dimensions.

I would like to see a new chassis for CART, the current one is too heavy IMO. Especially if there aren't any ovals left. Those premier 1 chassis look really cool.

jono