View Full Version : Indy Star Article on Renna's Death
sundaydriver
10-24-03, 10:44 AM
http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/3/086012-6563-037.html
Griffin said it was "impossible to describe" the extensive damage done to the tub of the G Force chassis prepared by Indianapolis-based Ganassi Racing. "And you could never imagine it," he said.
When all the facts finally come out, I hope they shut down the IRL. This should have never happened. :mad:
Originally posted by sundaydriver
http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/3/086012-6563-037.html
Griffin said it was "impossible to describe" the extensive damage done to the tub of the G Force chassis prepared by Indianapolis-based Ganassi Racing. "And you could never imagine it," he said.
When all the facts finally come out, I hope they shut down the IRL. This should have never happened. :mad:
The G forces must have been out of this world. But then again, as with most deadly accidents, it's not always how hard you hit but where you hit. Kenny's tub survived, he survived. Young Renna's tub didn't. :(
Wheel-Nut
10-24-03, 11:05 AM
Griffin said the IRL will not begin its investigation of the crash until next week because so many key officials are in Orlando, Fla., preparing for the league's season-ending banquet Saturday night at Walt Disney World.
Have they not done an investigation yet?
Napoleon
10-24-03, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Wheel-Nut
Griffin said the IRL will not begin its investigation of the crash until next week because so many key officials are in Orlando, Fla., preparing for the league's season-ending banquet Saturday night at Walt Disney World.
Have they not done an investigation yet?
:rolleyes:
It takes over a year to do a plane investigation, it took over a week here recently to complete an investigation into who a dead body that was found was (even though they already suspected they knew who it was) and determine it was a murder. Things do not happen overnight.
In addition to the crash site work they did (presumably) they now will have to begin the real hard work, hiring metallurgical material, composite material, computer and other experts to examine each piece of the wreck to see if it appears to have been the result of some kind catastrophic failure, like a collapsed “A” arm or similar cause that set off the chain reaction. They may also have these experts reassemble the car to see it some kind of failure in the structure to hold together in a wreck.
Secondarily they would have metallurgical experts examine the fencing to see if corrosion or stress fractures weakened its ability to withstand the forces it was designed to withstand.
IMO it would be prudent for them to also retain aerodynamic experts and book time at a wind tunnel, which by the way it is my understanding that most are booked 24/7/365 so they may have to wait a while to get in one, so that they can test the reaction of a similar chassis to a series of potential scenarios that may have occurred.
I am guessing it takes more then 2 days to do this type of investigation. It could easily take a couple of months.
Crash investigations can be sped up immensely if the final conclusions are already drawn up ahead of time. Then it's just a matter of shaping what little evidence you have obtained to the conclusions.
RaceGrrl
10-24-03, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Wheel-Nut
Griffin said the IRL will not begin its investigation of the crash until next week because so many key officials are in Orlando, Fla., preparing for the league's season-ending banquet Saturday night at Walt Disney World.
Have they not done an investigation yet?
Don't you know that the banquet is more important than the reason for Renna's death? :shakehead
RacinM3
10-24-03, 11:52 AM
Man, people, relax for a bit about this. The fact that the team does not have posession of the on-board electronics, and that they are being stored at the League's office show they're going to conduct an investigation. Callous as it sounds, they're not trying to save his life, they're trying to find out why he died, and trying to save others lives. Time is not of the essence, the season having just ended.
Now, if they fire up another IRL car for testing before an investigation is complete, you and I have something to get pissed about.
Methanolandbrats
10-24-03, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by sundaydriver
http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/3/086012-6563-037.html
Griffin said it was "impossible to describe" the extensive damage done to the tub of the G Force chassis prepared by Indianapolis-based Ganassi Racing. "And you could never imagine it," he said.
When all the facts finally come out, I hope they shut down the IRL. This should have never happened. :mad: Anyone remember Martin Donnelly's crash at Jerez in 1990 or so? Nothing left of the car, just a driver strapped to a seat lying on the track. I'm guessing this one was similar, only the driver did'nt survive.
Originally posted by RaceGrrl
Don't you know that the banquet is more important than the reason for Renna's death? :shakehead
Was Greg Moore's death investigated before the CART banquet? I thought it was held the very next day..........:confused:
Lizzerd
10-24-03, 02:23 PM
I don't remember for sure, but didn't CART cancel their banquet in '99?
devilmaster
10-24-03, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by spook
Was Greg Moore's death investigated before the CART banquet? I thought it was held the very next day..........:confused:
Apples and Oranges spook, and you know that.
Greg Moore died while the entire series was racing at California. People were there to start an investigation.
The problem here is that, most everyone needed was away from Indy, as the race league had finished (as i'm sure you are aware). And the announcement by Griffin that they will wait because most officials are preparing for the banquet.... is definitely a questionable action.
If these investigators need to see the area of the accident, waiting a week isn't going to help their cause. Can only hope the people that were there that day took a ton of photos and cataloged where every bit of info was found.
Steve
Originally posted by spook
Was Greg Moore's death investigated before the CART banquet? I thought it was held the very next day..........:confused:
Considering there was video evidence of what happened to Greg what was there to investigate? It was obvious what happened was a fluke. Unlike crapwagons getting airborne. That has happened 6 times this year.
But, of course, that doesn't suit your agenda.
:rolleyes:
devilmaster
10-24-03, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Lizzerd
I don't remember for sure, but didn't CART cancel their banquet in '99?
At the request of Ric Moore, the banquet continued on as scheduled, with respect given to the two drivers who died that year.
Steve
Originally posted by devilmaster
At the request of Ric Moore, the banquet continued on as scheduled, with respect given to the two drivers who died that year.
Steve Yes, and the IRL banquet is continuing at the request of Joe Renna, who said Tony would have wanted Scott to have his night in the spotlight.
Originally posted by rabbit
Yes, and the IRL banquet is continuing at the request of Joe Renna, who said Tony would have wanted Scott to have his night in the spotlight.
With all due respect rabbit, the key 'officials' who are supposed to conduct the investigation don't really need to be at the banquet.
Originally posted by mapguy
With all due respect rabbit, the key 'officials' who are supposed to conduct the investigation don't really need to be at the banquet. I never said they did.
Originally posted by rabbit
I never said they did.
So what you are saying is that my point is moot?
:D
Originally posted by mapguy
So what you are saying is that my point is moot?
:D So they say. :saywhat: ;)
RaceGrrl
10-24-03, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by spook
Was Greg Moore's death investigated before the CART banquet? I thought it was held the very next day..........:confused:
You know that mine was a rhetorical question.
I do agree with Mapguy. The officials needed to start the investigation are likely not needed at a banquet. If nothing else, NOT going back to Indianapolis to get right on this is stupid from a PR perspective.
A sad irony to all of this: Ganassi's Hull (I believe) was part of an ESPN News feature that ran all last Sunday about the integrity of the IRL chassis, explaining in the feature the tub was designed to withstand impacts like Kenny had at Texas. Unbelievable...
Originally posted by RaceGrrl
You know that mine was a rhetorical question.
I do agree with Mapguy. The officials needed to start the investigation are likely not needed at a banquet. If nothing else, NOT going back to Indianapolis to get right on this is stupid from a PR perspective.
From a PR perspective I agree. But just for internet PR. The real world understands that time is needed to download the black boxes and to carefully look over the data. No doubt even the tub manufacturer wants to know what broke and what force was generated to break it.
I disagree with Mapguys characterization of the Moore accident. "Considering there was video evidence of what happened to Greg what was there to investigate?" What led to Moore losing control? Hanford device bad air? Brushing the wall? His injured hand? It was such a terrible loss of such young talent. :(
RaceGrrl
10-24-03, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by FRANKY
From a PR perspective I agree. But just for internet PR. The real world understands that time is needed to download the black boxes and to carefully look over the data. No doubt even the tub manufacturer wants to know what broke and what force was generated to break it.
"The real world?" I do live in the real world. In the real world, accidents are investigated by experts- immediately investigated. In the real world, an investigation is certainly not delayed for the sake of an awards banquet.
I don't think that the cause of the accident is something that will be determined immediately. I never said anything like that. I do not agree that any delay in the investigation is acceptable. A young man is dead. We need to know why.
Originally posted by RaceGrrl
I don't think that the cause of the accident is something that will be determined immediately. I never said anything like that. I do not agree that any delay in the investigation is acceptable. A young man is dead. We need to know why.
Do you honestly think we will ever get told the real story? The world as a whole does not officially know what killed Dale Sr. :shakehead
Hey Spook,
I can get you seats at TMS next year down close to the fence. They're yours if you want them.
Meanwhile, the local snapper wrapper reports:
Enquirer news sources
Renna: The investigation into the crash that killed Indy Racing League driver Tony Renna at the Indianapolis Motors speedway will be hindered by a lack of visual evidence, and IRL spokesman said Thursday.
***
Gee, was that the "visual evidence" that the WTHR helicopter showed being cleaned up and washed away within a few hours of the incident?
RaceGrrl
10-24-03, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Cam
Do you honestly think we will ever get told the real story?
Do I honestly believe that we'll know? I don't think so, but I'd like to think that Tony Renna didn't die in vain.
Perhaps this time, the pressure to resolve the flying car problem will result in a real investigation. But I'm being optimistic today.
Originally posted by pchall
Meanwhile, the local snapper wrapper reports:
Enquirer news sources
Renna: The investigation into the crash that killed Indy Racing League driver Tony Renna at the Indianapolis Motors speedway will be hindered by a lack of visual evidence, and IRL spokesman said Thursday.
***
Gee, was that the "visual evidence" that the WTHR helicopter showed being cleaned up and washed away?
Blood.
Happy now? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by FRANKY
Blood.
Happy now? :rolleyes:
You say that as if it were insignificant.
Geez, don't you watch CSI?
Napoleon
10-24-03, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by RaceGrrl
The officials needed to start the investigation are likely not needed at a banquet.
Who would be making the decision on what types of experts need to be retained and what firms to provide those services need to be hired? The IRL is a small buisness and I can not imagine that it would be anyone other then TG, with the advise of Barnhart or whoever their technical director is and the imput of their staff who would have to assemble names and quotes from suppliers.
Originally posted by pchall
Meanwhile, the local snapper wrapper reports:
Enquirer news sources
Renna: The investigation into the crash that killed Indy Racing League driver Tony Renna at the Indianapolis Motors speedway will be hindered by a lack of visual evidence, and IRL spokesman said Thursday.
***
Gee, was that the "visual evidence" that the WTHR helicopter showed being cleaned up and washed away within a few hours of the incident?
Come on, you must know that the quote was a reference to eyewitnesses or video of the wreck. This quote is all over 7G and it has been clearly tied to the fact that being a test day not many people were there and no cameras were running. All they have to rely on is forensics.
Originally posted by Turn7
You say that as if it were insignificant.
Geez, don't you watch CSI?
No ;) ?
It was only significant to young Renna, his family and friends.
I suppose someone could find a way to weave some sort of importance to blood on the asphalt. That cleaning it up was obstructing an investigation. Tampering with evidence.
No one who is level headed would buy into that sort of nonsense.
(There's a wonderful CART race at 12:30 AM tomorrow night to help take my mind off this week's events. Pray for no rain. Go PT wrap this up!)
RaceChic
10-24-03, 07:37 PM
That's twice in two days. :(
trubritz
10-26-03, 07:59 PM
I have heard a rumour, and its just that at the moment, that Tony's seat came out of the tub after the initial impact.
Anyone else heard this?
Originally posted by FRANKY
I disagree with Mapguys characterization of the Moore accident. "Considering there was video evidence of what happened to Greg what was there to investigate?" What led to Moore losing control? Hanford device bad air? Brushing the wall? His injured hand? It was such a terrible loss of such young talent. :(
Cold tires were the #1 culprit, but the restricted use of his right hand wouldn't have been much help in correcting the oversteer. And of course, the grassy infield and the approach road caused the flip. A sad day indeed. :(
And as far as the people required to conduct the investigation being at the banquet is concerned, I have a question.
How much rubber chicken would be left for them after Chip was done anyway?
Methanolandbrats
10-26-03, 09:04 PM
Sliding across the grass with the car exactly parallel to the escape road was the problem. Very, very unlikely, but it happened.
a friend of mine from indy was feeding me bs today
"there was a 60mph gust through t3, that would flip any car, even a sprinter"
"it turned him sideways"
"what about krosnoff fernandez patrick rodriguez"
"mario ran over brack's rear wing, any car would fly then"
etc etc
bs bs bs
:rolleyes:
I expected more from a purdue ME, silly me.
Originally posted by trubritz
I have heard a rumour, and its just that at the moment, that Tony's seat came out of the tub after the initial impact.
Anyone else heard this?
The driver is seat belted to the tub, the seat is really just extra padding. The seat is really just padding.
That said, I've also heard he was thrown from the car. (Likely due to the tub discintigrating.) If you remember Jeff Krosnoff's crash, the engine broke off behind the seat, and also broke mid cockpit. (The front of the car looking similar to Stan Fox's crash.)
It wouldn't shock me if Renna's car did much of the same, with the driver strapped to his seat, but nothing left around him.
Mariofan
10-27-03, 01:09 AM
The Yahoo account of the accident made it sound that the tub and Tony were hung up in the fence. To hear the seat was ejected wouln't suprise me. We will never really know what happened I'm afraid.
Methanolandbrats
10-27-03, 07:59 AM
I will repeat for those who did not read page one. This is the most likely scenario.
Anyone remember Martin Donnelly's crash at Jerez in 1990 or so? Nothing left of the car, just a driver strapped to a seat lying on the track. I'm guessing this one was similar, only the driver did'nt survive.
Originally posted by FRANKY
Blood.
Happy now? :rolleyes:
Oh, ye of little imagination.
I suppose an oblique reference to Pontius Pilate is too much for you to process...
Methanolandbrats
10-27-03, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by pchall
Oh, ye of little imagination.
I suppose an oblique reference to Pontius Pilate is too much for you to process... Who did he drive for?:confused:
Originally posted by Methanolandbrats
I will repeat for those who did not read page one. This is the most likely scenario.
Anyone remember Martin Donnelly's crash at Jerez in 1990 or so? Nothing left of the car, just a driver strapped to a seat lying on the track. I'm guessing this one was similar, only the driver did'nt survive.
That would be consistant with how the aftermath was described to me.
Originally posted by pchall
Oh, ye of little imagination.
I suppose an oblique reference to Pontius Pilate is too much for you to process...
Very oblique.
RaceGrrl
10-27-03, 11:55 AM
It's not that oblique- I saw the Pilate connection.
Originally posted by FRANKY
Very oblique.
Not that oblique. Perhaps just obtusely read?
Originally posted by pchall
Not that oblique. Perhaps just obtusely read?
A different O word comes to mind. Obnoxiously posted.
devilmaster
10-27-03, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by FRANKY
A different O word comes to mind. Obnoxiously posted.
Its amazing how many posters this label could be placed on, eh Franky? :rolleyes:
Steve
WickerBill
10-27-03, 05:15 PM
And everyone was acting like *such* an adult.
Grow up and talk about the subject or the thread goes away.
trubritz
10-27-03, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by JoeBob
That would be consistant with how the aftermath was described to me.
It sounds like we have heard similar reports - the aftermath was told to me as well :( ,
Railbird
10-27-03, 10:16 PM
the cause of the accident won't be found in broken posts or blood stains and it damn sure won't be found by Tony or Brian.
The cause lies in the wind tunnel.
Originally posted by RaceGrrl
It's not that oblique- I saw the Pilate connection.
Is that the NEW video? I was thinking about ordering the Winsor Pilate video.
Those babes are SMOKIN'
And is Pontius any relation to the Pilate broad in the 1st one? ;)
lone_groover
10-28-03, 12:00 AM
:DHA HA! :thumbup:
RaceGrrl
10-28-03, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by Railbird
the cause of the accident won't be found in broken posts or blood stains and it damn sure won't be found by Tony or Brian.
That may be true, but they sure as hell ain't gonna find it if they don't look for it!
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