Houston back with new layout in Spring 2004?

[damiandoan]

Starting to think about Houston since it has been mentioned recently as a Spring 2004 race. So, I was cruising the web and came across the following graphic of the convention area post-construction. Then with cheap MSPaint in hand, I dialed in course. Much of the old remains, but overall length is added along with some character over the old one, IMO anyway.

The front straight is lengthened 2 city blocks with the extension of the Ave de Americas. Placing a open Pook-Pin I ran the course back to the original turn 1-2-3-4 areas where it pours onto the long back straight. New construction on the back side should allow this corner to be opened up. Granted not as much as Denver, but still significantly wider than before. Then on to the original 7-8 and into the esses around the new hotel and arena. Entering a long, "oval-esque" sweeper into the final new Pook-Pin. This leads the cars back up to the lengthened front/pit straight.

14 corners around 2.3-2.5 miles

http://home.austin.rr.com/damiandoan/Houston_new1.GIF

DD

My first layout thread on OC. :o :D

[RTKar]

Looks like the same old choppy, no flow course that produced sub 100 mph qualifying speeds. We need courses that show off a Champcars muscles. The stereotypical street course is not what we need to promote the series.

[Warlock!]

It's a helluva lot better than the old layout... depending on where it's gonna be held. I think DD's layout would be the only alternative to spicing up the existing track if it were limited to the existing area.

Now, if it were able to sit somewhere else, the possibilities for a truer "race course" may be greater (I don't know Houston very well, so the whole city may be a nasty grid as far as I know)

Winter Warlock!

[Turn7]

I really think that this event will be moved to Reliant Park at some point in time if it remains in Houston. There just isn't a place downtown that offers up a good layout for a race track.

I drew up something rather dumb but workable and have it hosted on Yahoo. Hopefully it will appear at some point but you can never tell if it will or won't.

I have it going through the Astrodome with a chicane on the floor of the stadium for chits and grins.


http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/5b5f9e3d/bc/Misc/Houstongp/__hr_Dumbtrack.jpg?bcNpAM.APbO24hwj

[damiandoan]

From what I understand the course will remain in the same general area. T7, can you confirm? The only good part of the old track, IMO, was the long back straight into the 5-6-7-8 complex. IN the version above, the front straight is lengthened to just a 1/2 block shorter than the back. I can envision up to 7 legit passing places on the revision above: Into new T1, Out of T1 into new T2, new T6 (old T5), new T8 (old T7), new T10 (old T9), new T13, & new 14. Also the long left from 12-13 would be awesome under acceleration, remember there will be no traction control this year or next.

Other possibilities abound, but this layout jumped out at me when I ssaw this graphic.

By the way, I forgot to credit the original image above to it's proper owner, http://www.hcchc.org/images/logo.gif (http://www.hcchc.org/map.htm). Sorry 'bout that WB. :o

DD

[Turn7]

DD,

I contacted Chris Woolwine a while back and she said that the "race" was up for sale. Chris was the public relations director for the race when Haas was the promoter.

Any way, she said that the city wants the race to be held downtown however with the World Series and the Superbowl being hosted in '05 and '04 respectively, I don't know how much attention the Harris County Sports Association is willing to dedicate to bringing champ cars back to Houston.

I feel it will be totally up to the promoter, if one is found, to re-energize this race. With all of the construction that has been going on dowtown, I don't know if the citizens are up for more street closures shortly after the scheduled completion date of many of the multi year projects that have been on going.

Those are the reasons I think the race will ultimately be moved to Reliant Park if comes back to Houston. The complex is much more than a wide open parking lot and with some work, a much better track could be designed and still have the ammenities that Houston offered such as an indoor paddock, close hotels and resturants, ect.

The city already has mass transit solutions designed and working very effectively for Reliant Park to quickly shuttle people to and from the venue.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Turn7
however with the World Series . . . being hosted in '05 and '04 respectively,

I must have missed the rule change where World Seriea are played at nuetral sites.

:)

[Turn7]

Sorry....brain fart.....All-Star Game.


I knew that didn't look right when I typed it.
Oh well, I suppose you can tell I am not a big stick and ball fan.

[Miljax]

On Sega Dreamcasts Flag to Flag Racing, this is my favorite track to drive, because the sight lines suck and the course is comical, pound the gas, slam on the brakes, repeat... In reality, it made horrible racing, until everybody started slip sliding around. Houston, I think, would be a good market, it is just that this track layout, barring my video game love for it, is weak...

[Miljax]

Originally posted by Napoleon
I must have missed the rule change where World Seriea are played at nuetral sites.

:)

Being that I am from Milwaukee, and probably will never get the pleasure of having a World Series game played in my home town under the current rules, I am all for playing Series games at nuetral sites... Bring it on!!!;)

[Gurneyflap]

Yeah, I've been thinking about this one for over a year. Let's make sure we pick up Houston so we can dump Road America. Gotta love those concrete canyon EVENTS. I have no expectation that the track will prove any better than Denver or Miami...I'm still praying St. Pete works out!

[Dr. Corkski]

Hey, maybe they will have an ENRON one-off car!

[Turn7]

Originally posted by Gurneyflap
Yeah, I've been thinking about this one for over a year. Let's make sure we pick up Houston so we can dump Road America. Gotta love those concrete canyon EVENTS. I have no expectation that the track will prove any better than Denver or Miami...I'm still praying St. Pete works out!


I don't think you will ever have to worry about Houston replacing RA for one simple fact. RA's date is in August. Nobody in their right mind would touch an event that is based outdoors in Ausgust targeting the Houston area. If RA goes away, it won't be Houston picking up an August date for sure. Maybe Denver or a European event but not Houston.

Additionally, I wouldn't want to pick an event to cancel to make room for a new one but, you have to admit that the midwest has more than their share of events. If CART is really serious about breaking away from Indy, then it needs to grow its market out of the area and establish new relationships that are not interested in Indy. To do that you are going to have to take CART to the public and get them hooked.

I think that CART knows this as well....that is why the mid west has lost 3 race dates in the last 2 years without any one really screaming for them to come back.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Turn7
. . . you have to admit that the midwest has more than their share of events. If CART is really serious about breaking away from Indy, then it needs to grow its market out of the area and establish new relationships that are not interested in Indy.

Yeah but consistently when it comes up on any fan board where the fans live there is always a heavy Midwestern tilt (and I mean really heavy). In the past 6 months or so both 7G and CW ran were do you live polls and Ohio won both, and there were quit a few others from Ill, IN, WI. Thats CART's biggest market.

[Turn7]

Exactly my point. If CART truly wants to break away from Indycentric people they will have to establish a fan base outside of the midwest. To do this they are going to have to do exactly what they are doing. Put the product right under peoples noses so close to home that they have to take notice.

Do these methods make for the finest racing product? Hell no. Does it do its job of marketing CART and its sponsors products? Well hell yes.

The key to this plan is going to be when the transition the series back to traditional road courses and ovals. If they do it to soon, they will not have picked up a loyal fan base across the nation. If they do it to late, then the fan base will erode more than it has built up being forced to watch street parades.

It is going to have to be a timing thing and it is going to have to be done with precision.

All I know is that I am glad I don't have to be the one that has the responsibility of when to pull the trigger on the transition. Whoever it is, Pook most likely, is either going to come out smelling like a rose or a goat.

[Napoleon]

I agree that you have to expand the fan base, what I disagree with is doing it in a way to PO the existing fan base. Just because the existing fan base is heavily tilted to the Midwest doesn't mean they are indycentric (and quite frankly even if they are, so what, so long as they keep attending the events. CART cuts anymore midwest events they really are spitting in the eye of the people who have supported them all these years.

[Turn7]

I see your point. However, if the midwest remains not only the the largest sector of fans but the most predominate section of fans then that limits the sponsors audience and attracts regional sponsorship instead of national or international companies.

If the sponsoring companies are only interested in reaching the mid western demographic then you run into resistance for racing in places they don't service or sale and more than likely will want you to run the biggest event in the midwest, the Indy 500. That is why I am saying it is going to be difficult to keep what they have and grow new fans. It is going to be tough for loyal fans to watch Houston, Miami and Denver when all the while they know they could be watching Michigan, Belle Isle, RA, MO, ect, ect. I think CART knows they are going to lose some fans in the midwest in this process but, they are gambling that they will gain just as many fans and more in the process.

I think there are going to be growing pains felt by all of the fans. It just remains to be seen if the pains will be bearable.

[Dr. Corkski]

Pook must destroy open-wheel road racing in the US in order to save it. Sounds familiar. :D

[Turn7]

I think that is stretching what I am trying to say way out of proportion. If that is the way it is coming across then, Im sorry.

No present or past race has to disappear to make way for a new one. There is a ton of room in the schedule to add races without dropping any. Houston could very easily become one of the early spring races instead of a fall race. It would only make sense to have the transporters stop in Houston between St. Pete and Monterrey.