View Full Version : Real Racing (this time with voting)
r2c's thread got me to thinking, we all agree CCWS is "Real Racing." (otherwise, why would we be here?) But what other series do we consider "Real Racing?"
Don Quixote
11-19-03, 12:57 PM
Great poll rabbit! I notice a trend in the results.
RacinM3
11-19-03, 01:06 PM
The only ones I didn't vote for were IRL and NASCAR.
I'm surprised I was the only one who voted for Grand Am. DSP's aside, there IS real racing going on in the other classes of Grand Am, undoubtedly.
:thumbup: Great poll rabbit. I'm adding a write in vote on top of the ones I picked above.
http://www.letsmow.com/images/bitterman_miller.jpg
I can't believe you left this one out.
lone_groover
11-19-03, 01:23 PM
Write-in:
CCS/WERA club racing.
:thumbup:
RacinM3
11-19-03, 01:33 PM
Another write-in: SCCA SPEED World Challenge
I'd say there is some legit racing going on in the underranks of GrandAm, but the current state of DSP's causes me to not vote for the series.
No to the earl and Nascar as well.
Another write in. V8 Supercars.:D
Dirty Sanchez
11-19-03, 02:21 PM
F-3000 :thumbup:
nz_climber
11-19-03, 03:15 PM
another vote for the V8 Super, the Porsche GT3 cup(s)
Steve99
11-19-03, 06:57 PM
Another write-in for World Challange.
I can't vote for Grand-Am with the DSPs stinkin' up the field and the other classes being neutered so they can't beat the DSPs.
Originally posted by RacinM3
Another write-in: SCCA SPEED World Challenge
O Yea, those guys are fun to watch. They were great at MO. Another vote for F3000 and Atlantics.
Sean O'Gorman
11-19-03, 07:47 PM
It is ALL real racing in my opinion. Yes some do have wierd gimmicks, but getting around them is still part of the equation to win the race.
However, that doesn't mean all racing is interesting. I don't find the IRL to be that appealing, and some of NASCAR's rules irritate me to no end. But its still real racing.
Robstar
11-19-03, 08:13 PM
another vote for V8 Supercars (http://www.v8supercar.com.au)...
:cool: :cool:
Railbird
11-19-03, 08:52 PM
there hasn't been a "real racing" since the the invention of the helmet.
;)
Hot Rod Otis
11-19-03, 09:17 PM
A write in vote for Chariot racin', BEN-HUR style. Now thats REAL racin'.:)
Railbird
11-19-03, 09:44 PM
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/images/french7a.jpg
Jimmy Murphy is ready for some "real racing"
When Jimmy Murphy was driving 130mph on wooden tracks, often the wood would break up during the race and drivers would have splinters in their faces after 5 hours of racing. Larger chunks would knock them out.
A blown tire or mechanical failure of the spindly steering gear often meant death for the driver and/or riding mechanic.
He was definitely a real racer.
But I don't think real racing has anything to do with bravery or the lack of safety equipment.
Railbird
11-19-03, 10:58 PM
Bravery doesn't figure in the mix?
In that case "real racing" might include the cone dodgers in a church parking lot or a bunch of dork couch potatoes playing GPL.
While danger is certainly not the only measuring point of the reality of racing, the lack of it renders the sport as nothing more than a personal hobby.
Maybe I put too much into the fact that Gurney just about broke into tears talking about Jimmy Clark and how tough that era was a few minutes ago.
If you want to speak of the purity of the sport IMO you have to go back to the times when F1 contested their events with no pit stops, no safety cars, no full course yellows and of course no freakin' traction control.
Originally posted by Railbird
Bravery doesn't figure in the mix.
Maybe I put too much into the fact that Gurney just about broke into tears talking about Jimmy Clark and how tough that era was a few minutes ago.
Wasn't that something?.... 40 some years later......."Real Racing", when there were few barriers between you and the trees....
JLMannin
11-20-03, 12:37 PM
I voted for all but IRL, NASCAR, and GrandAm.
Originally posted by Railbird
Bravery doesn't figure in the mix?
To me it doesn't. It's a personal viewpoint, but when I'm racing, I'm not thinking about danger. When I'm attempting a pass on someone, I'm not thinking about which wall is where if we make contact, but only about if that contact will put me out of the race or drop me back.
It's all about the competition, in cars that require skill to drive, against drivers that are difficult to beat. Whether or not I'm wearing a carbon-kevlar helmet or a leather one, it doesn't figure in the mix.
Having said that, I look back in awe at Jim Clark's or Jimmy Murphy's achievements, for instance, when the week after burying a friend for the XXth time, they were racing. The fear & anxiety they felt outside the racecar must have been intense, and it took bravery to jump back in. I'd be willing to bet, however, that when they got in the car, they weren't thinking about anything but winning. The actual act of real racing, IMO, is independent of bravery.
racer2c
11-20-03, 12:52 PM
I'm rather surprised at the number of votes that the Trans Am series received. While it's good racing, the tube frame technology has always turned me off.
Originally posted by mapguy
:thumbup: Great poll rabbit. I'm adding a write in vote on top of the ones I picked above.
http://www.letsmow.com/images/bitterman_miller.jpg
I can't believe you left this one out.
Hey, isn't the guy on the left running an illegal deck height?
Originally posted by pchall
Hey, isn't he guy on the left running an illegal deck height?
Alot of negative camber too. I thought aftermarket camber plates were illegal? Damn.
Sean O'Gorman
11-20-03, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by racer2c
I'm rather surprised at the number of votes that the Trans Am series received. While it's good racing, the tube frame technology has always turned me off.
I thought the question was if it is real racing, not if you like it or not. I think alot of people misinterpreted it, theres no way that more than 10 people can think that MotoGP is not real racing!
IMO, if Trans-Am isn't real racing, its because of the things like the "competition" yellows, not the tube frames.
The first rule of "real" racing to me is that all the cars are manfactured to the same specifications.
Therefore, all the series' that attempt to equalize the competion through differing, engine sizes, weight requirements, and the like fail the test. In addition, the IRL didn't make it because...well you know why the IRL didn't make it.
The one that kind of surprised me with the number of votes it has received so far is USAC/WoO, which I also voted for. I didn't think that many people here really appreciated the level of racing on America's short tracks. I think a lot of the negative perception comes from the IRL connection. But if you've ever seen a race in person, you'd have a whole new appreciation for what those guys do. It's a whole different set of skills from what many of us are used to seeing, and is most definitely real racing. A lot more real than the IRL, that's for sure.
Lizzerd
11-20-03, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by rabbit
The one that kind of surprised me with the number of votes it has received so far is USAC/WoO, which I also voted for. I didn't think that many people here really appreciated the level of racing on America's short tracks. I think a lot of the negative perception comes from the IRL connection. But if you've ever seen a race in person, you'd have a whole new appreciation for what those guys do. It's a whole different set of skills from what many of us are used to seeing, and is most definitely real racing. A lot more real than the IRL, that's for sure.
I agree, rabbit. If you can forget about the wishful thinking of the lemmings that these guys should be "given a shot" at the irl and go see a race, I guarantee you will come away with a different perception. I usually make it to 3 to 5 races at IRP and/or Terre Haute to see races, and always enjoy the show. The USAC sprints and midgets (never been to a WoO race) really are fun to watch. Maybe it's just my Hoosierness showing through.
Railbird
11-20-03, 05:19 PM
The fear & anxiety they felt outside the racecar must have been intense, and it took bravery to jump back in.
There lies the catch now doesn't it? To wake up to rainy day in the Ardennes with visions of Eu Rouge dancing in your head is enough to make the mere act of pulling on the gloves an act of bravery.
I'd be willing to bet, however, that when they got in the car, they weren't thinking about anything but winning. The actual act of real racing, IMO, is independent of bravery.
quoting the great Chris Amon:
"I was chasing Pedro Rodriguez, and the BRM was streets quicker on the top end than my March. On the last lap I made a decision to take the Masta Kink flat, something I had never tried, even in qualifying, and I don't think anyone else had either. I made it through somehow and took about 50 yards off him. Tell you what though, it wasn't something I'd likely have the nerve to do too often."
Now let me drag one of my personal favorite quotes from back in my younger days. The always raucous Bill Vukovich II, sitting in on a beer soaked converstion at the White Front in May of '72, said of the speeds generated by the 1000hp Offies and barn door wings "if you're gonna get scared do it in the pits, it won't do you any good going into one"
Bravery plays a part, the meek will never inherit the part of the world occupied by the racers.
Dirty Sanchez
11-20-03, 05:38 PM
I dig WoO... he makes bitchin' action flicks. :gomer:
Seriously, they are great fun to watch in person. Just make sure you have some goggles and make sure you keep a hand over your beer or you'll be drinking track. :D
FCYTravis
11-20-03, 06:02 PM
Taking Masta flat...
ahh, that reminds me of countless battles in Grand Prix Legends, wrestling those beasts around the real Spa-Francorchamps course... my oh my, weren't those the days.
As for me, SCCA Club Racing is as real as it gets. Two of note...
A fiberglass-n-tube-frame FContinental, a couple quickjacks, a set of rains and some spare slicks... and the all-important EZ-up. Oh, and the ability to keep from bouncing off the myriad Formula Rotary Tanks built of armor-plate.
An open trailer, a hotted-up-slightly-beyond-the-rules ITB Volvo, some Hoosier-daddy R-compounds and the willingness to make that Swedish refrigerator go where no designer ever thought it would.
That's real racing, real sport, real people here in San Francisco Region.
And hoo boy, when it rains, they don't wimp out like the CART boys did at Road America. No whining. No bitching. Just slap on the rains. Or don't - just run around on slicks and go for broke.
RacinM3
11-20-03, 06:37 PM
Funny you mention that, Travis. I just did a 3 hour enduro at Buttonwillow last weekend.
At Night.
In the wet.
On slicks.
FCYTravis
11-20-03, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by RacinM3
Funny you mention that, Travis. I just did a 3 hour enduro at Buttonwillow last weekend.
At Night.
In the wet.
On slicks.
Getting ready for the 25 at Thunderhill, eh?
We'll see you there :thumbup:
For a write in: Don't forget the boats!
Originally posted by FCYTravis
As for me, SCCA Club Racing is as real as it gets.
:thumbup:
I'd like to add Formula Vee to your two.
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