Turkey Night GP

[Ziggy]

I spent a very enjoyable evening watching the Turkey Night Grand Prix
from Irwindale Speedway last night. Michael Lewis and Aaron Pierce set a
titanic duel in the Sprint Car preliminary event. This was a great race.
Pierce looked to have the field covered, motoring into the distance
while Lewis fought mightily for the second position. Upon solidifying the
position, Michael roared off using a high line and ran down Pierce like
a three legged dog. A real wing ding ensued for the final two laps, each
driver showing considerable skill and sportsmanship as the lead was
swapped three times between them. Lewis drove under Pierce with a slight
wheel bang, both cars getting a tad out of shape on exit of the corner.
Lewis went on to win a real thriller. The interviews after the event
were pure class, with Lewis speaking like a real race car driver who was
gracious in victory and appreciative of the treatment given by Mr
Pierce. After a commercial break Speed Network took the time to speak
with Pierce, and a more genuine driver could not be found on the planet.
It was very refreshing to hear drivers speak so frankly, and to give
credit where credit is due. On this night, and in this event,
competitive sportsmanship and racing craft where on display. Snicker all
you want about Sprint or Midget racing, but nobody's Grandma is driving
one of these things! Very good show.

The main event featured the USAC Midget running the 61st addition of the
"Turkey Night Grand Prix". Bobby East sat on the pole using all the
considerable might of his daddy's race team. Defending champion Michael
Lewis was on the outside while pole second row was filled by pavement
badass David Steele. USAC wonder kid JJ Yealey had some sort of handling
problem and was starting back in the field along with Tracy Hines. Jason
Leffler was making a cameo appearance in the second Tomassi entry, the
other being driven by the aforementioned Steele. As the green waved,
Steele took this as his cue to exit, stage left. David dropped the
hammer and it was really over from there. East dropped through the
field, ala Sarah Fisher, while Leffler charged toward the front only to
be taken out by a slower car in a move that is Jason's hallmark,
impatience. Steele won the event going away, with Michael Lewis a
distant second. Good interviews afterward and very reveling as too
which direction this sport has taken.

Speed did an excellent job of covering this event. Dave Argabright added
a very positive influence with his pit interviews with Roger Ward, Danny
Oaks and the winners and runners up of both events. He even coaxed the
word patience out of Mr Leffler upon his exit interview, but not before
Jason had made an ass of himself with the "jerkoff" gesture while on the
track. I know its been years, but Leffler is still the number one
graduate of the Tony Stewart charm school. I have been a critic of
Argabright's for years for his politics of the split.The irony of which
I will take the time to explain in a moment. Dave was allowed to
interview the Agajanian brothers. Carey and JC jr (who bears a very
close resemblance to his father in both appearance and mannerisms) spoke
of the events history and their family's involvement. A good piece, if
you leave your politics at the door.... Like I said, Argabright made
this broadcast excellent, Larry Rice does a nice job in the booth as
well, IMO. The coverage of the drivers and touching on the events
history where greatly appreciated and done in a flowing style as to
allow the viewer a glimpse into the racing world. Between events, a
tapped interview with Argabright and JJ Yealey was shown. JJ talked
about his record setting season and touched a little on his future plans
driving stock cars.

The word of the day was Stockcars. It appears USAC has, in the words of
one Robert Montgomery Knight, decided to "Lay back and enjoy it" It
seems that all the powers that supported Tony's vision of taking
talented short track drivers into the big leagues has been forgotten.
Michael Lewis spoke of tests and employment by Richard Childress Racing.
In his interview, Yealey spoke of his upcoming season with Joe Gibbs
Racing. The announcers waxed poetically on how this is such a fertile
ground for drivers to move "Down South" and compete in the "fun and
lucrative" world of stock car racing. I know it was Thanksgiving, but
the interview with Yealey was tapped. Where was the questions like "what
about the IRL", or "We hear you snubbed Panther Racing"? Why did
Argabright champion the cause of the vision and its golden road to fame
upon it's inception, yet not question the moves of USAC's all time
season winner? I wonder how Cary Agajanian, who uttered those famous
words at Mickey Mouse Speedway upon Tony Stewart's debut, "There are
twenty more just like him" feels knowing that the heritage and tradition
laid down by his father is being utilized by the France family? These
guys have no vision to go along with their very short and selective
memories. Larry Rice took the time to explain how Jeff Gordon and Tony
Stewart broke down the barrier for Midget and Sprint car drivers. Hey
Larry, what about Midget and Sprint cars? When you where coming up, did
you dream about winning Rockingham? How come none of the drivers go to
the IRL? Wasn't it formed to stop the drain of talent away from the Indy
500? Didn't fans want drivers they could identify with? Why does the
Infinity Pro Series only attract the second generation talent of the has
beens? Could it be costs? Michael Lewis, JJ Yealey, Tracy Hines, Dave
Darland, Aaron Pierce, David Steele are talented American drivers. There
is no doubt that with some proper training in rear engine equipment that
they could run with anyone in an all oval series. The interviews done
last night proves that they are all articulate, thoughtful and
intelligent. If sponsors are looking for men to represent their company
in a positive light, the aforementioned group could rise to the task.

The crowd appeared to be thin, and you must have had to be fifty to buy
a ticket. There are no new, young fans. American Open Wheel Racing is
dead. The drain of talent is almost complete, in a few years I fear that
stock cars will dominate even the local weekend shows here in my home
state of Indiana. The cost of running an openwheel car is too high and
the formula for advancement is too far from what is needed to run a rear
engine car. You could combine the total weekend crowd from Gas City,
Puttnumville, Paragon and Kokomo into one section of IMS. You could fill
four more with the rest of the county's short track crowd, not even one
whole turn would be needed. These men driving in Sprints, Midgets and
Silvercrown may be short on talent by some folks standards, but they
recognize a closed road when they see one.

Ziggy

[Railbird]

Thanks for the review Zig, I've got the event on tape.


I agree with your assesment of crowd sizes at the openwheel short track events around these parts. If everyone of those folks would show up at an IRL event, which they wouldn't, their impact would be negligible imo. While the talent and skills necessary to compete at the front of a USAC event are not to be dismissed, the importance and the reach of the series itself is way over rated. As far as the average age of the folks attending those races goes, let's just say my white hair doesn't stand out nearly as much there as it does elsewhere.

[Racewriter]

Nice review, Zig. The racing was excellent, from front to back. Irwindale may be the best pavement short track in the country.

Politically speaking, the guys like Argabright and Agajanian have quietly detached themselves from the IRL. Like many of us, they recognize that the league has lost its way, but choose not to comment publicly.

[jcollins28]

Thanks for the great review! I went to the Turkey night race a few years ago when Kenny Irwin was still with us (RIP Kenny). I miss the days of the battles that Irwin/Stewart/Steel and Boat would put on. I also hate the fact that all these great young drivers are making there way off to NASCAR.

[nrc]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Why does the
Infinity Pro Series only attract the second generation talent of the has
beens? Could it be costs? Michael Lewis, JJ Yealey, Tracy Hines, Dave
Darland, Aaron Pierce, David Steele are talented American drivers. There
is no doubt that with some proper training in rear engine equipment that
they could run with anyone in an all oval series.

What a lot of the short track racers have never fully accepted is that they need an intermediate step between sprints and Indy Cars. The powers that be have failed to convince them of that and failed to provide a meaningful middle step that a driver can make it to purely on talent.

The drivers have accepted this about NASCAR. They don't go straight to Cup, they go to trucks or Busch. The difference is that they can make a living at that and it provides worthwhile training. The challenge in getting to Indy cars isn't just the rear engine, there's a world of difference between chasis dynamics and then you throw in all the aero issue on top of it.

The Nissan series is perhaps the biggest joke they could have played on prospective Indy car racers. Other than plenty of experience listening to your spotter chanting "inside, inside, inside, still inside," that series has almost no value as a training ground. When you have them droning around high bank ovals for most of the events they're not going to learn anything but how to jack up the nose, flatten out the wings and mash the pedal. But on the other hand, I suppose that's what "Indy Racing" is all about these days.

[SteveH]

Thanks Zig. An interesting post script to this can be found here
http://espn.go.com/rpm/wc/2003/1128/1673063.html

There's more, but this will give you an idea.......

Yeley's jump to NASCAR is a move that some open-wheel purists see as part of a disturbing trend. Since 1991 the sanctioning body, which had traditionally been a breeding ground for Indy Car drivers, has lost Jeff Gordon, Ryan Newman, Jason Leffler, Mike Bliss, Stewart and now Yeley to the stock-car ranks.

"Right now I think stock cars are the best fit for a guy coming from USAC," explained Yeley. "You know a lot of people think that because you run open wheel you should go Indy Car racing. And 50 years ago that might have been the case, but technology has surpassed what we do in USAC racing and to make that jump (to stock cars) now is a lot easier."

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by nrc
What a lot of the short track racers have never fully accepted is that they need an intermediate step between sprints and Indy Cars. The powers that be have failed to convince them of that and failed to provide a meaningful middle step that a driver can make it to purely on talent.

The drivers have accepted this about NASCAR. They don't go straight to Cup, they go to trucks or Busch. The difference is that they can make a living at that and it provides worthwhile training. The challenge in getting to Indy cars isn't just the rear engine, there's a world of difference between chasis dynamics and then you throw in all the aero issue on top of it.

The Nissan series is perhaps the biggest joke they could have played on prospective Indy car racers. Other than plenty of experience listening to your spotter chanting "inside, inside, inside, still inside," that series has almost no value as a training ground. When you have them droning around high bank ovals for most of the events they're not going to learn anything but how to jack up the nose, flatten out the wings and mash the pedal. But on the other hand, I suppose that's what "Indy Racing" is all about these days.

There is one major thing you are forgetting. There are opportunities for moving up the ranks in NASCAR, no such opportunities exist for short trackers.

Suppose the IRL did come out with a serious training ground that was the step between short track racing and Indy cars, there is still reason to expect that they are going to get a ride in this series without a huge check. That is not the case with NASCAR.

[nrc]

Originally posted by SOG35
There is one major thing you are forgetting. There are opportunities for moving up the ranks in NASCAR, no such opportunities exist for short trackers.


Forgetting? I thought that's what I said. Ah well, agreement never stopped you from arguing. :)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by nrc
Forgetting? I thought that's what I said. Ah well, agreement never stopped you from arguing. :)

:D

Actually, there must've been some confusion somewhere along the lines...I thought you were saying that short trackers were avoiding the IPS as if they actually had a choice between the two.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Oops, rereading your post, I see now that I really missed your point. :o

Oh well, thats what I get for posting at work. :)

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by SOG35
There is one major thing you are forgetting. There are opportunities for moving up the ranks in NASCAR, no such opportunities exist for short trackers.

Suppose the IRL did come out with a serious training ground that was the step between short track racing and Indy cars, there is still reason to expect that they are going to get a ride in this series without a huge check. That is not the case with NASCAR.

That's the point. Winning races can take you to the top in NASCAR. It can't in the IRL. Even on TF's IPS board, participants in that worthless series are saying that it takes a bare minimum of half a million bucks to run a year. For that kind of money, you could do a competitive ARCA program, a competitive part-time CTS program, or a best-of-everything fulltime ASA program. In any of those instances, they'll run against full fields of competitive drivers in front of actual paying customers, and on live TV with actual viewers.

Or, you can go to the meat grinder IPS, run against tiny fields of nobodies who have never won a race in their lives (for the most part), in a series where driver skill matters much less than how recent your rebuild is (engines drop off 40HP by the third race), and take a huge risk of turning your vertebra into jello. Such a deal, right?

The kicker is this: If you dominate the IPS, IRL owners will want to run you - as long as you can fund the car. If you win in ARCA, ASA, or CTS, Busch and Cup owners will find you and offer you money.

[BigIrlFan]

ZIggy, YOu sucK. I CAint WaIT tO POUnd KNots ON yer haId.

THe REst OF yoU LOOsers, beTTer FOrget yOU reaD thIS anD CaLL FReddy NAtion foR YOur penTance

BiF# THe IRLs boUt ATTitude anD ALtitude

[cart7]

Had TG been happy to just put together a ladder series that promoted USACers by providing a competant formula for them to make the transition between FE to RE aero, things might be different now. Cart could have ladders coming from both road racing AND oval disciplines now. Of course, promoting American USAC stars was never the purpose of the earl in the first place according to Tony now. He was simply misunderstood by a growing legion of short track fans who are now dialing out the earl. :shakehead

[Lizzerd]

Good review, Ziggy. I wish I could have been able to watch more of it than I did. I was stuck in a full house of stick and ball fans for four days, with one of my brothers being the only other racing fan. The TV in the kitchen was for the women, the one in the living room was for the nephew's and niece's Playstation, and the one in the family room was for us guys and it stayed stuck on football.

[Racewriter]

Hulmanista Faithful Spin (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35621)

[Ziggy]

Once and for all for these dip****s that lurk on this board. John Barnes made a comment in the media about a "breakfast" with JJ. Yealey never heard mention of it, so its kind of hard to show up for a "meeting" when said meeting is never set up.

To take anything said by John Barnes as gospel should be chased with a grain of sand...

Ziggy

[DaveL]

Originally posted by Racewriter
The kicker is this: If you dominate the IPS, IRL owners will want to run you - as long as you can fund the car. If you win in ARCA, ASA, or CTS, Busch and Cup owners will find you and offer you money.

The same holds true for Atlantics, although Lites champs in the heyday of that series typically only had to bring their helmets to CART rides.

When I say that "NASCAR is about the drivers", the above proves this. A stock car fan knows that the guy they saw wow everyone in one of the series R-Dub listed will get a shot at Cup. Once there he will succeed or fail on his own merits (and many lower level champs wash out of Cup), but the chance will be there unless the driver is a retread veteran who already had his chances in Cup (the Greens, Musgrave, Hornaday, etc). Our sport would be so much stronger if the top level made the same use of its feeders but it doesn't.

[RacinM3]

Ziggy, that was a great post.

To answer your question, for the 1,629,567,395,647th time, it was about power and control, not American asses in race-car seats. (But I know you already knew that. ;))

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by DaveL
The same holds true for Atlantics, although Lites champs in the heyday of that series typically only had to bring their helmets to CART rides.

When I say that "NASCAR is about the drivers", the above proves this. A stock car fan knows that the guy they saw wow everyone in one of the series R-Dub listed will get a shot at Cup. Once there he will succeed or fail on his own merits (and many lower level champs wash out of Cup), but the chance will be there unless the driver is a retread veteran who already had his chances in Cup (the Greens, Musgrave, Hornaday, etc). Our sport would be so much stronger if the top level made the same use of its feeders but it doesn't.

Yep. Incidentally, IIRC, didn't Lites champs in the 'heyday' have a new chassis to bring with them? I seem to remember that got Herta a ride at Foyt.:eek:

Another neat deal I saw this year was at Nashville, in October. They had a Saturday/Sunday show, the Southern All Stars late models on Saturday for the Patriot 200, and the ASA on Sunday for the Nashville 300. The deal was this: Win the 200, and you start 21st on Sunday in a Steve Dale ASA car. Brian Hoppe won the 200, and finished 12th (lead lap) on Sunday in his first ever ASA start.

There's really nothing preventing the IRL from doing that kind of thing, other than a lack of creativity and intelligence. And caring.

One other note: Even the vets who wash out of Cup (Musgrave, Green, Hornaday) end up strengthening NASCAR because they can still make a good living and be very competitive in Trucks or BGN. Guys like that can battle-harden an up and comer pretty quickly, in the way a Cory Witherill can't dream of.

[JoeBob]

Yep, RW. In the heyday of Indy Lights, the series champion got a free chassis from Lola. Herta did indeed "buy" his ride with Foyt by bringing that car to the team. (He ended up having a big crash in the last corner at Toronto fracturing his pelvis, and as a result missing quite a bit of the season.)

Baseball works much the same way as NASCAR. There are guys who spend their entire careers in the minors, and are quite okay with it. There's worse ways to spend your life than playing AAA baseball, and they serve the same purpose - the kids on the way up won't get away with anything when they play 'em, as they've seen it all before.