Top 20 CART/IRL raceday attendances for 2003?

[ChrisB]

I already posted this on TF and 7G, but I thought I'd try it here too (OC likes to keep a lower profile). Does anyone have a list of the top 20 CART/IRL races for 2003 ranked by raceday attendance? I guess the top 4 would be:

1. Indy
2. Mexico City
3. LBGP
4. Toronto

....but what's the rest? Anyone know?

And why am I asking? If we get to (cough) "one series" then on what basis are events decided? The network TV ratings usually all turn out about the same (except Indy) but there's a LOT of variance between raceday attendance numbers.

[Ziggy]

Well, I guess if we go to one series, and that series is the IRL, than its a moot point.

Here's hoping that some super Lemming nincompoop on "another" message board give you HIS answer.

Ziggy

[Railbird]

Hell Zig, I'll give you mine right here on good ol' OC.

Just the races I attended:

Indy, this is the one that pisses me off. "Protect and preserve" indeed, the old speedplant was a ghost town all month with a paltry crowd on "Fast Friday" and a concert/pitstop contest pumping up Carb day as highlites. Race day was still the biggest openwheel deal in the world, but the fact the BY400 has surpassed it in local enthusiasm and interest reflects the results of the ill-timed split on the sport itself.

Texas I, nice crowd for any openwheel oval, but, 92,000?

Please :shakehead

Nashville, full stands, kinda small but full. The big sister put on a pre-race concert that drew a healthy crowd and the local promotion was evident. Probably the best IRL promotion I have ever seen.

Michigan, judge for yourself

Kentucky, continues to dwindle

Chicagoland, a decreasing number of lost NASCAR ticket holders.

[Robstar]

Surfer's '03 - around 128,000 on race day...
Over 320,000 for the four days...
:cool:

[jonovision_man]

Toronto Molson Indy - 3 days - 167,000
Montreal - 172,000 (2002)
Vancouver - 161,000 (2002)

Any schedule should include all 3 Molson Indys. Established events, well attended, and a fantastic promoter who is commited to racing.

jono

[rabbit]

It would be nice if someone would do a meaningful, accurate count of raceday attendance. I have a hunch Mexico City would give Indy a run for its money as the "largest single-day sporting event in the world."

[cartmanoz]

Fact is, CART owns the IRL when it comes to attendance. The only large attendance the Crapwagons get is at Indy, but considering that race is but a shadow of it's former self, who really cares about that.

Mexico City, Surfers, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Long Beach, Miami all get large crowds, while places like Road America always have the loyal followers...

[Dirty Sanchez]

Don't forget Monterrey, Mexico... they had the largest attendance in CART history before the Mexico City race was added.

[jonovision_man]

What U.S. races are attendance wins?

We all know the Mexican(x2), Canadian(x3) and Aussie races are successful.

Most of the U.S. races are far from their former glory, though. There's a lot of rebulding to do, especially when you look at the attendance at places like Road America or Leguna. Great circuits, slipping attendance.

jono

[mapguy]

Originally posted by jonovision_man
What U.S. races are attendance wins?

We all know the Mexican(x2), Canadian(x3) and Aussie races are successful.

Most of the U.S. races are far from their former glory, though. There's a lot of rebulding to do, especially when you look at the attendance at places like Road America or Leguna. Great circuits, slipping attendance.

jono

Got two words for ya.

Long Beach.

[jonovision_man]

Originally posted by mapguy
Got two words for ya.

Long Beach.

Yes, yes, we all know about Long Beach, it was already mentionned earlier in the thread, but that's really the only one that touches the "foreign" races.

The provisional schedule included these U.S. races:

Long Beach
Las Vegas
Milwaukee
Portland
Cleveland
Road America
Denver
St. Pete's
Miami
Fontana

Other than Long Beach, I don't think any of the others made money last year, attendance was a tough slog at most of them.

If you have one series, which do you pick, if any?

My vote would be Miami, LB, Road America, maybe Cleveland.

jono

[Ziggy]

Maybe Cleveland?????

This is the best track they run on IMO. Guys actually pass each other, there are several different lines, plenty of room, City gets into it, plenty to do when not at the track.

Yeah, maybe Cleveland, but.....
Does Iowa City need a race? Cornpone Festivial or something?

Ziggy

[jonovision_man]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Maybe Cleveland?????

This is the best track they run on IMO. Guys actually pass each other, there are several different lines, plenty of room, City gets into it, plenty to do when not at the track.

Yeah, maybe Cleveland, but.....
Does Iowa City need a race? Cornpone Festivial or something?

Ziggy

I like Cleveland too. :)

I also like Laguna, but from what I understand it's not been well attended. Too bad.

jono

[racer2c]

All things considered, Cleveland attendance has remained consistent over the years with a big boost in local interest with the shift to after dark this year. I don't know for sure, but I would hesitate categorizing Cleveland as one of the money losers.

Great race.

[Robstar]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Maybe Cleveland?????

This is the best track they run on IMO.

I'm with you Zig...
:thumbup:

[Dirty Sanchez]

From a fan's perspective, Cleveland is much better on TV... sightlines are crap, can't get close enough to the action (don't even bother bringing a camera) and there is next to zero information provided to the fans. It was like being at Road America without the kickass roadcourse. :thumdown:

That doesn't take anything away from the challenge it presents to the drivers. Its one of the better ones for racing. :thumbup:

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by jonovision_man
I like Cleveland too. :)

I also like Laguna, but from what I understand it's not been well attended.

You've been paying too much attention to Reiniger's attendance counts. :p

{edit} Ok, I misread your comment. I thought you were saying that Cleveland was poorly attended. Nevermind. :o

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Crapus
From a fan's perspective, Cleveland is much better on TV... sightlines are crap, can't get close enough to the action (don't even bother bringing a camera) and there is next to zero information provided to the fans. It was like being at Road America without the kickass roadcourse. :thumdown:

That doesn't take anything away from the challenge it presents to the drivers. Its one of the better ones for racing. :thumbup:

I like the fact that you can see the cars all the way around the track. A rarity in road course racing.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by Crapus
From a fan's perspective, Cleveland is much better on TV... sightlines are crap, can't get close enough to the action (don't even bother bringing a camera) and there is next to zero information provided to the fans. It was like being at Road America without the kickass roadcourse. :thumdown:

That doesn't take anything away from the challenge it presents to the drivers. Its one of the better ones for racing. :thumbup:

The sightlines and closeness doesn't bother me, I like the fact that I can see the whole track. The biggest complaint is that since the cars aren't that close, the sounds aren't as good as they are at Mid-Ohio or Road America.

[Ziggy]

Newsflash, ALL races are better on TV.

Ziggy

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Newsflash, ALL races are better on TV.

Ziggy

The races are, but to stand in the pits when a Champ car lights them up is something I wish everyone could experience in person. My wifes first Champ Car race was Cleveland '97. We're strolling along the pits during the first few minutes of Friday warmup and Vasser lets it rip with us five feet away. My wife freaked out (in a good way). It gets you deep inside and she was hooked ever since. Like they say, take someone to a Champ Car race, they're a fan for life.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Yeah, what racer2c said... and... sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a cleveland bash, because it was a fun event and every champcar fan should see it at least once in person. I just feel like I get a better bang for my buck at other tracks.

The lack of information (a big screen, a running tote board, hell... I would have been happy with smoke signals) really disappointed me.
The entire crowd is facing the lake basically... seems like an easy fix.

[Lizzerd]

I didn't think you were bashing Cleveland, Crapus. What you say is pretty much true. It depends where you sit if your sight lines are good to see the WHOLE track. And yeah, you aren't really close to the track during the race. But if you had any idea who was driving which car, and paid attention to the cars as they went around the track, do you really need a tote board???? :) :) :)

P.S. This season was my first Cleveland race, and I was thouroughly entertained. Loved it. The Labatts beer wagon probably helped.

[Electrocuted]

The top 20 races based on race day attendance?
I dont know. But here's some very close by country numbers.

CART
USA race day gets 325,000 fans.
Mexico gets around 400,000 on race day?
Canada, I think, gets around 350,000 on race day?
Oz is something like 125,000??

IRL
USA race day maybe 800,000??
Japan, 75,000???

You guys remember all the remarks of Marlboro/Kool, Kmart, Target, etc. that said they get None/Zip/Nadda ROI from going to foreign countries? Thats still a problem. The corporations have split marketing money to the different country division offices to use more effectively locally. (As in Office Depot Mexico, Quaker State Mexico)A top 20 list may need to go with what is smart from a buisness point of view, by attracting sponsors, and by keeping attendance in mind but not only by attendance decision.

[Turn7]

I don't buy that load of crapola.

I know for a fact that an computing company that sponsors a F1 team has the entire budget paid for by the European, Middle East, Asian Division. They don't complain about F1 coming to the US, Canada, Brazil or Australia. None of wich are serviced by thier division. No longer are things so localized that advertising in another country won't give you a return on your investment.

Even though Office Depot of Mexico pays for sponsorship in CART the company in whole gains. When a parent company sees a wise move that is good for the division as well as the company as a whole, the marketing purse strings loosen a bit and more money is allowed to cover the added charge. Just because the marketing money is channeled through one country or division doesn't mean that the parent company doesn't realize the value of the sponsorship and that the money should be rat holed away where only the local target will see the ads. If you can get your local audience engaged as well as encompass an outside audience, that is money well spent. More bang for the buck, global audiences are just that.

[jonovision_man]

Originally posted by Turn7
I don't buy that load of crapola.

I know for a fact that an computing company that sponsors a F1 team has the entire budget paid for by the European, Middle East, Asian Division. They don't complain about F1 coming to the US, Canada, Brazil or Australia. None of wich are serviced by thier division. No longer are things so localized that advertising in another country won't give you a return on your investment.

Even though Office Depot of Mexico pays for sponsorship in CART the company in whole gains. When a parent company sees a wise move that is good for the division as well as the company as a whole, the marketing purse strings loosen a bit and more money is allowed to cover the added charge. Just because the marketing money is channeled through one country or division doesn't mean that the parent company doesn't realize the value of the sponsorship and that the money should be rat holed away where only the local target will see the ads. If you can get your local audience engaged as well as encompass an outside audience, that is money well spent. More bang for the buck, global audiences are just that.

I tend to agree.

Budweiser, for instance, is sponsoring the Williams F1 team. It's not the U.S. advertising wing technically, it's the international (or European) one. Even so, it doesn't hurt that they race in the U.S. and Canada, more like icing on the cake.

How they manage to sell that pig-swill to Europeans, who make wonderful beer, is beyond me, though... :)

Companies who do international business tend to be pretty aware of opportunities to market their brand in multiple markets. The beauty of autoracing is that even if the race is abroad, it's televised everywhere. Part of the reason the TV package has to be there, though.

jono

[Electrocuted]

Shucks Turn7, I throw some numbers up to offer as information to make better opinions. And I offer the challenges of different country/division budgets as info. And you go and hit me in the gut??? :p

As T7 said, it could be true that the main office probably take's a few dollars from other Divisions and add's it to Mexico's "Office Depot" checkbook. IF they think it helps the Corporation overall. But, with the attendance and tv numbers as they are, would HQ think it's an effective program with ROI?? Or would they see it as a "Mexican sponsoring a Mexican" with no benefit other than in Mexico?? Tough to say?