Halle-fricken-lujah. surprise, surprise, Its all Renna's fault.

[devilmaster]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/103693-1605-037.html

I'm still trying to figure out how it compares to Moore's crash. Moore did flip because of the grass, but stayed low to the ground and went roll hoop first into the wall. Renna launched over the wall and went into the catch fencing.

:shakehead
Steve

[DjDrOmusic]

Originally posted by devilmaster
http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/103693-1605-037.html

I'm still trying to figure out how it compares to Moore's crash. Moore did flip because of the grass, but stayed low to the ground and went roll hoop first into the wall. Renna launched over the wall and went into the catch fencing.

:shakehead
Steve

You have to use Gomer logic Steve. Both cars had four wheels, a rear wing, a driver with a helmet, and the sun had risen both days. See? A perfect comparison! :rolleyes: :shakehead

[chop456]

And almost NO debris made it through the fence. That's impressive.

Well, except for whatever smashed in the wheelchair platform. Other than that, things are perfect!

Renna deserves better.

[cart7]

Typical rookie aviator mistake. Flaps should have been up to avoid lift off in the turns.

So I guess now, if you're in the NE vista, J stand or E stand and a car goes low and clips the grass it's every man, woman or child for themselves.. :eek: :shakehead

[Ziggy]

Note to Fred

Having seen several cars "get around" at the Speedway, You might want to look into why it took off? Getting backwards should not include a short, deadly flight.

Ziggy

[RTKar]

Like NASCAR's excuses before Big E biffed, let's blame our inherent problems on driver inexperience and error,it's cost effective..... They're all just a bunch of self serving liars.

[FTG]

Well, it is a mistake to get into a crapwagon.

[rabbit]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

- Didn't the aprons of the turns used to be paved?

- Wasn't it Tony George who decided grass was better back in like '92?

- Didn't the grass apron, err, "driver error" cause Stan Fox's crash?

After Moore's crash, everyone else that owned a track was paving the infield. Wouldn't that be negligence on the part of IMS to ignore this obvious danger? Or woud it just be SOP? :shakehead

[Warlock!]

Anyone have any links to the pics from the chopper video after the wreck?

Warlock!

[chop456]

Originally posted by Warlock!
Anyone have any links to the pics from the chopper video after the wreck?

Warlock!

http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/2572971/detail.html

[Racewriter]

A complete whitewash. Not surprising, but disheartening.:flame: :flame:

[stymie]

The cause of the accident was from the get go driver error or mechanical failure, no argument there. The tragic events were set forth by something. However there should be a vigorous review as to why the car became airborne, as this has been a tendency of the cars over the past year. The IRL's lack of public concern is disappointing, if they are investigating it then hopefully soon mention of changes directly associated to this problem will be announced

As for the comparison with Greg Moore that would have to be asked of Cavin and why he would include it as it appears to be his comments, not that of an IRL spokesman.

[cartcanuck]

I don't have any trouble with them calling the cause of the accident "driver error" because from all reports, it was. He put a wheel wrong and went for a spin. HOWEVER, this is usually harmless and he should have walked away with nothing more than a few bruises or at worst some broken bones. But no, not this time. The crapwagon turns it's ass to the wind and takes flight like a pre-roof-flap stock car.

So the report is mixing things up. Cause of accident is driver error. Cause of death is blunt force to head and chest. In between these two "causes" is the real truth. The crapwagon should not have left the ground, at least not enough to jump a 4 foot fence! Hopping off the grass didn't cause him to go airborne. In the article they state clearly that it was lift under the butt of the car. So I'd like to see the writer and the IRL address the real issue here.....why the car got so far airborne that it resulted in a much bigger and more tragic wreck than a typical "driver error" would normally result in. That's the point they are missing.

[devilmaster]

Originally posted by stymie
As for the comparison with Greg Moore that would have to be asked of Cavin and why he would include it as it appears to be his comments, not that of an IRL spokesman.

Curt Cave-in is, for all intense purposes, an IRL spokesman.

Whether or not the IRL is officially comparing it to Greg's accident is pointless, in the grand scheme of things.

The real question here, is how, after rolling through the grass, did the car launch higher than the wall. Before someone says its only 4 feet, remember the car would have had to launch higher than the 4 foot height of the concrete retaining wall, and then some.

Since the car, according to irl officials(ahem) went through the grass, one has to calculate the height of the outside retaining wall, relative to the inside of the turn. Since the track is banked 9 degrees in the turns (less in the short chute, but not sure how much) that raises the final height of the wall.

Someone give me the width of the track and the angle of the bank, and there might be enough info to guestimate what the true height of the wall is.

I hope to read the report in its entirety.

And oh yeah, if you check IMS's webpage, there is an article on how the speedway has alot of comparisons to the first 100 years of flight.

Steve

[jonovision_man]

As it is, they will no doubt be sued by Renna's family.

If they had admitted blame, they might as well cut the cheque right now. There was no chance they would declare this anything but Renna's fault.

Question to Americans (I assume that's most of you!):

When would American law enforcment get involved in an investigation? I mean, if this were CSI they would be all over it, but the reality seems to be quite different. I would think where there's a chance there was neglicence by the series, there would have been more of a criminal investigation. In all likelihood it wouldn't have resulted in charges, but at least we'd be satisfied that an impartial third party had looked at it and made a report one way or the other.

jono

[mapguy]

Would you prefer the Dubin Inquiry? :D

[jonovision_man]

Originally posted by mapguy
Would you prefer the Dubin Inquiry? :D

Almost... :)

I wouldn't go too far - ie. the Senna trials.

But there should be some scrutiny by law enforcement, did that happen in this case? I guess they probably decided it wasn't a homocide so they were done?

jono

[mapguy]

Originally posted by jonovision_man
Almost... :)

I wouldn't go too far - ie. the Senna trials.

But there should be some scrutiny by law enforcement, did that happen in this case? I guess they probably decided it wasn't a homocide so they were done?

jono

Good point.

Should there be one?

Yes. Because crapwagons are flying any chance they get. There is an inherent problem with the design.

Will there be one?

Nope. Because Fred Nation says there is no problem.

[DaveL]

Idiots.

Driver error is the cause of a lot of wrecks. Bad car design causes them to go into low earth orbit and kill drivers.

Oh and Curt, Moore barely got 12" off the ground. The car was perpendicular to wall on impact. It's not as if he took off for Ontario.

[Kahauna Dreamer]

http://home.comcast.net/~kahauna_dreamer/barnhart_copy.jpg