Courthouse Updates

[JoeBob]

Here's what seems to be the latest:

OWRS, CART and the creditors committee objected to the IRL bid.

The judge said the IRL bid was fine, and is actually higher than the original OWRS bid.

Both sides have some time to reformulate their offers.

The judge wants this over today, and as much cash as possible for the creditors.

[racer2c]

So CART's recommendation to the court that OWRS takes over is moot? It's now bidding war? Hmm.

Thanks for the info JoeBob. I've been on the edge of my seat all morning! :thumbup:

[Dirty Sanchez]

someone better check the judge's robes for yen. :saywhat:

[JoeBob]

Court will be back in session at 1:30PM Gomer Standard Time.

[JoeBob]

Here's speedtv.com's take: http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/9562/


The federal bankruptcy court that will determine whether the Indy Racing League or the Open Wheel Racing Series will purchase the assets of CART, the bankrupt organizers of the Champ Car World Series, is expected to rule Wednesdayon the merits of the competing bids.

Following lengthy representations of bids by both the IRL and OWRS, Judge Frank Otte called a recess and said, "We are going to take a break now and, when we return, we will determine who buys it."

This followed a dramatic morning in court, when the head of the CART creditors' committee told the court that the OWRS bid was "substantially better" than the IRL's. The OWRS also revealed that it has increased its bid to match the IRL's $3.26m, and set aside $500,000 to settle the outstanding claim made by California Speedway, which wanted its sanctioning fee returned for the canceled 2003 finale.

It was also agreed that if the OWRS bid is successful, the $63m loan from CART's parent company to its operating company would be waived. It was also estimated that $10-30m in lawsuits could result from the cancellation of the 11-race contracts that are currently held.

Under its revised plan, the OWRS plan boasts a best-case scenario of 100 percent payback for CART's creditors (and a worse case of 62 percent), while the IRL's best-case scenario was 4.7 percent (worst case 4.3 percent).

Of the OWRS bid, CART's lawyer told the court, "That's a pretty good offer. The committee was enthused by it."

The attorney for the OWRS even called for a motion that the auction should be called off, but Judge Otte denied it. "That's not how we conduct business here,” he said.

The IRL has also withdrawn its bid for CART's 100 Cosworth engines, which would have left the series powerless in 2004.

[racer2c]

Good find. I looked over there earlier and didn't see anything so I read that piece about how excited the IRL boys are about going road racing. I though it was funny that ther were referring to Tony's bidding on CART as a done deal. Well, don't hold your breath boys.
L1P1 over on Seventh Beer has given a great update having just left the courtroom at the recess.

[racer2c]

I'm concerned that the judge is going to send it to liquidation. According to L1P1's update, he was impressed with OWRS overall presentation. Let's hope that helps.

If OWRS wins, will we have a year long battle over venues? Will this mean Champ Car will turn their back on oval racing and build a better road racer? That way, when the IRL are lumbering around RA, the smaller, lighter and more powerful Champ Cars can boast road racing superiority and the media will follow suit. If Tony wins in court, will Reynard and Lola build crapwagons?

[racer2c]

Ok, Brian R. over on SG is on site at the court house and said that the judge said this will be resolved today, no chapter 7.

[Cam]

I just tried to call the reptillian one, who is also down there. No answer! :gomer:

[WickerBill]

Updates in just a few minutes, I'm told...

[sadams]

This place seems to be the only one still working. Crappies and 7g both down.

[cart7]

Other site just stated TG made a re-bid and it's big. OWRS talking it over.

[WickerBill]

If you're browsing as a guest and wish to post, I am at the helm and will be validating new users pronto for the next few hours.....

WB

[slashman]

Other site just stated TG made a re-bid and it's big. OWRS talking it over.


:flame: :flame: :thumdown: :thumdown:

This waiting is just killing me!! I can't get any work done!!!

[JoeBob]

The IndyStar is reporting only that the IRL submitted a new bid at 1:30, and that the creditors are reviewing it: http://www.indystar.com/articles/3/115570-5723-110.html

Terms were not revealed, although you'd have to assume they'd think their new bid would be bigger than the OWRS bid. (Then again, they thought their previous one was too - something the CART attorneys did not agree with.)

Of course, after OWRS gets a chance to look at the IRL bid, they'd get a chance to go back and revise their own.

I suspect this will not be the last of these delays.

[KLang]

Other site just stated TG made a re-bid and it's big. OWRS talking it over.

If you mean Velocity at TF, his updates seem spun a bit.

[Turn7]

Recess until 2:50 GomerTime.

[KLang]

Recess until 2:50 GomerTime.

Shoot, guess I'll have to work for a little while. ;)

[cart7]

At this rate, this could go on awhile.

[Racewriter]

Crapwagon and Trackforum are both having difficulty. CW was down earlier today. It's back up now, but slow. TF was fine earlier, but is slowing down. Must be quite a few people looking for updates.

Here's my gut, just from what I'm reading: I think OWRS walks away with this, but I think they'll pay up for it. I'd bet they're wishing they had bought it at their earlier offer (pre-bankruptcy) before it's all over.

[RichK]

If you mean Velocity at TF, his updates seem spun a bit.

That's for sure. I wonder how he knows an undisclosed sum (as reported by the IndyStar) is "big".

[CART T. Katz]

Crapwagon and Trackforum are both having difficulty. CW was down earlier today. It's back up now, but slow. TF was fine earlier, but is slowing down. Must be quite a few people looking for updates.

Here's my gut, just from what I'm reading: I think OWRS walks away with this, but I think they'll pay up for it. I'd bet they're wishing they had bought it at their earlier offer (pre-bankruptcy) before it's all over.

from all the information i had read, if they did go through with the initial offer, the sale would not have gone through.

[Chief]

Care to venture a guess how much? That's a pretty big $63M hurdle TG's got to get over....

[KLang]

New record for online users, 66!

[JoeBob]

There's scattered reports of Gentilozzi and TG discussing things in the hallway. That kind of talk makes me wonder about the "Robin Miller Scenario." (IMS buys the whole thing, hires OWRS to run it in 2004, merges everything into one series (possibly with new cars) in 2005.)

[Racing Truth]

Gonna be a long, yet either way historic day.

I've now read at TF (Brick) that PG and TG were talking during a recess. Could be nothing, could be a joke, could be a compromise.

Curiouser and Curiouser.

[WickerBill]

PG: "Tony, let's work this out."

TG: "uhh"

PG: "Tony?"

TG: "uhh... I need my notes."

[G.]

This sux!

Is Gomer time zone in sync with Central right now, or off an hour?

[cartcanuck]

Simple math on this would assume that TG's next offer would have to be in the $66million range :eek: .....3.3 million from his initial offer, and $63million to cover the CART loan.

Does anyone actually think he's throw out that kind of a number?

[Racing Truth]

PG: "Tony, let's work this out."

TG: "uhh"

PG: "Tony?"

TG: "uhh... I need my notes."

:laugh: You forgot one thing.

"I don't know."

That said, I'll be glad, whatever the outcome, when this ends.

[WickerBill]

As the self-proclaimed inventor of Gomer Standard Time, I can tell you it's currently 2:31 here... in the winter, we're East Coast.

[Racing Truth]

Simple math on this would assume that TG's next offer would have to be in the $66million range :eek: .....3.3 million from his initial offer, and $63million to cover the CART loan.

Does anyone actually think he's throw out that kind of a number?

Sure. Even if he loses, he makes OWRS put up a huge wad of $ themselves; $ they would need to run the series.

[Tall1]

If TG runs short of $$$, would/could Pimpske & Fatnassi dig in to their pockets to help TG? This almost sounds like it may be an out-of-court settlement, and durn I hate that. The bad guy (TG) wins, the good guy (OWRS) loses, and the victim (us) is still the victim.

[WickerBill]

It would seem a more opportune time for the manufacturers to gain more control by loaning money than the car owners. But TG has *plenty* of money...

[Joe in LA]

Sure. Even if he loses, he makes OWRS put up a huge wad of $ themselves; $ they would need to run the series.

That is a risk. When bidding at an auction, it is satisfying to win, but if you can't/won't the second most satisfying thing is to see the guy who outbid you overpay.

[Brickman]

Gonna be a long, yet either way historic day.

I've now read at TF (Brick) that PG and TG were talking during a recess. Could be nothing, could be a joke, could be a compromise.

Curiouser and Curiouser.

It was small talk, so I have been told.

Court resumes at 2:50+

[RichK]

I'd bet there's a current cellphone connection from the courthouse to Toyota headquarters, too. Deep pockets.

[edit - WB beat me to it]

[Racing Truth]

That is a risk. When bidding at an auction, it is satisfying to win, but if you can't/won't the second most satisfying thing is to see the guy who outbid you overpay.

Yep, and as WB said, whether you like it or not, Tony George isn't lacking for money to work with.

[pfc_m_drake]

It's funny though...I figured that final price would be much greater than the initial offers, but I didn't expect it to get into the $60+ million range. That's a lot of dough, but as others have said, none of the participants are lacking in that department.

Also, the idea of manufacturer involvement/backing of the bidding process is an interesting one. I guess we'll know in a little while.

[Brickman]

e-mail

"The IRL has put in a bid for 13.5 million dollars. Within that, they are offering to run each of the Mexico races, each of the Toronto races and the Long Beach race over the next five years.

However, the creditors committee is still saying that is not enough, and the two parties are arguing back and forth."

[JoeBob]

I'm assuming whoever wrote that meant Canada races, not Toronto races.

And here we were thinking that sponsors want to be in the US, not International, and IMS didn't want street races.

[KLang]

This seems like a good place for an FTG.

How the heck would they run those races this year?

[racer2c]

Could it be that OWRS was simply a player in the conspiracy to get the most money out of TG, who was sure to join the bidding?

[Joe in LA]

This seems like a good place for an FTG.

How the heck would they run those races this year?

Although it wouldn't be pretty, they could run them with a little schedule tweaking. They may not be "ready" for road races, but there is no reason they couldn't run the cars in short oval trim if they had to. I would guess that some of the teams would be pretty upset about adding races if they don't have the budget for them.

[WickerBill]

This seems like a good place for an FTG.

How the heck would they run those races this year?


By farming it out to OWRS.

[RichK]

Monterrey is May 23, not sure how they propose to do that.

[racer2c]

It wasn't long ago that Paul said "Tony is a friend."

I'll be upset if Tony wins the assets, but there will also be a sense of closure to this and that will be somewhat satisfying in it's own right.

[Joe in LA]

By farming it out to OWRS.


That could happen, but OWRS would have to agree--unless that's what they chatted about in the hall, I can't see how they could bid based on the assumption that teams would show up and run the CART equipment.

[KLang]

By farming it out to OWRS.

I really hope you're wrong.

[Brickman]

By farming it out to OWRS.

I agree.

Running a short schedule in 04' and sliding the races into their schedule in 2005.


Just another series under their umbrella, but just for one year.

[L1P1]

Wow, the interest in this case has taken out two message boards. I'll try here. For any who care I'll post my other post below. I just got back from the courthouse again and saw two recesses. It looks like that's how this thing is going to play out. One side updates their bid and then the other side asks for time to update theirs. It could go on for quite some time (or maybe it will be over sooner). They should be back in session again. Perhaps another recess? Or could this be it.

------

I just got back from the courthouse. The judge left for his chambers while the two sides bid agaiunst each other - which appears to be through private consultation with each other. I presume that they will bid each other up until they don't want to go higher and then both will present their final offer to the judge. That's just a guess by me. But the judge basically said "I'm going to my chambers and will be available there. You two will stay here and complete the bidding. I waited around a bit and finally decided I couldn't know if I'd be there for 30min. or 10 hours. Basically people were just milling about. So I decided I didn't want to spend the rest of my day off sitting around waiting.

This ain't no hog auction. The judge seemed to want to maintain the ambiguity regarding the value of claims. The creditors committee presented best and worst case scenarios of each bid. This took most of the first session. Of course, there is a wide degree of uncertainty because of trying to judge the value of claims not yet made.

OWRS played a couple of interesting aces. First was the disclosure that Championship had loaded CART $63M thus making them a creditor and giving them claim to the settlement money. However, they were willing to subordinate their claim (let other creditors get in line ahead of them) if OWRS wins the bid. The reasoning behind this is that Championship has people under contract that get jobs with OWRS if the series continues.

Their other ace was an offer sweeten the deal 3.3 Million plus a $500K guarantee to pay off 88 Corp should they prevail. What this meant was that the creditors would be paid off 100%. But this deal was only good if the case didn't go to auction. Basically, they argued that since everyone was happy, there was no need to have an auction.

The judge ruled against that in favor of maximizing the bids.

The courtroom appeared to hold about 60 spectators and it was SRO with people out in the halls. Of those people I recognized that were there were Kalkhoven and Gentilozzi, Emerson Fittipaldi, TG - and later I saw Chris Pook. Oh yeah, Robin Miller of course.

KK and PG seemed generally upbeat and animated while TG was sitting quietly and generally emotionless.

I'll add more as I think of it.

[mapguy]

By farming it out to OWRS.

I hope to hell that doesn't happen. Because if they do, and I am sure I speak for more than just a few people here, I will not watch anything that is run by Tony George. If the idiotGrandson thinks that if he, effectively, kills C^RT all his problems are going to go away he is dead wrong. If the coke-addled moron actually pulls this off he is going to lose a majority of C^RT fans and he will lose quite a few irl fans too.

FTG!

[WickerBill]

KK and PG seemed generally upbeat and animated while TG was sitting quietly and generally emotionless.


Wow. That's not a surprise.

Thanks very much, L1P1.

[racer2c]

Tony George - The Great Unificator. :shakehead

[mapguy]

Tony George - The Great Unificator. :shakehead

More like the Great Mo-Fornicator.


(Sorry WB, I had to do it.)

[RedLine]

What two other boards has all the interest taken out? :confused:

[mapguy]

What two other boards has all the interest taken out? :confused:

7G and CW.

[Wally]

As mentioned before where is Mr Forsythe? Is he not the promo of one of the Mexico races?
Is Molstar not on record, OWRS/ Champ Cars or nothing?

What is that smell?

[cartcanuck]

Seventh gear and crapwagon have been up and down all day. Last I checked, seventhgear forums are still down.

[L1P1]

One other important thing I forgot. The creditors committee felt that damages claimed by Ford could anywhere from $1.5M to 15M(?). 1.5 being the amount CART should pay them with the rest being support contracts to the teams.

[racer2c]

7G and CW.

That's because the great WB who owns OC knows his PHP, baby!

[L1P1]

And now I have an error on TF's page.

[mapguy]

And now I have an error on TF's page.

Dog-Ring must have dropped his tenderloin on his keyboard....

[WickerBill]

That's because the great WB who owns OC knows his PHP, baby!


That's it... things should begin to crumble any second now that 2c hexed me.


I do know how to spell PHP, though!

[cartcanuck]

Isn't TF an error in and of itself??? :rofl:

[nrc]

As mentioned before where is Mr Forsythe? Is he not the promo of one of the Mexico races?
Is Molstar not on record, OWRS/ Champ Cars or nothing?

What is that smell?

Forsythe has always prefered to work quietly behind the scenes. He is on record and behind OWRS. Hietzler is his front man for the Mexican races and he has reportedly threatened to sue the IRL if their bid goes through.

[RedLine]

I know about 7G.

What is "TF" and "CW"?

[JoeBob]

Shouldn't they be back in session now?

[mapguy]

I know about 7G.

What is "TF" and "CW"?

TrackForum and Crapwagon.com

[racer2c]

Hey, what's that about Ford's damages? That is the first I've heard of any claim by them.

[TrueBrit]

If that arsehole TG gets anything close to control of OWRS I am SOOOOOO done with OW in the USA.......


FTG!!!!! :flame: :mad:

[pfc_m_drake]

Hey, what's that about Ford's damages? That is the first I've heard of any claim by them.

Not 100% sure, but I think the contract with Cosworth stipulated that CART buy the engines for $4 million amortized over two years. That's probably some of it. Also, Cosworth has the contract for engine rebuilds, which is likely most of the rest.

[L1P1]

Hey, what's that about Ford's damages? That is the first I've heard of any claim by them.

They haven't made any claim, but the creditors committee figures they could.

[L1P1]

They haven't made any claim, but the creditors committee figures they could.

It may have been Cosworth, and not Ford.

[SID]

Hey, I've got an idea.....

If FTG wins, can we have those crapwagons grounded by the FAA?

[lone_groover]

.....or get Sarah quarantined by the USDA!

:gomer:

[Racing Truth]

FYI: TF and 7G are both down. Watch out WB. This place could get realllll busy.

BTW: Wouldn't surprise me if the IRL farms out '04 to OWRS, and then integrates it into one.

[L1P1]

Hmmm, from piecing together comments on other boards, it looks like TG has upped his bid to $13M, will run both Mexico races and Toronto. Creditors Committee apparently didn't like it.

This might jive with what I witnessed after the first recess. The OWRS team asked for more time, saying that the IRL had submitted a proposal that complicated things, but they'd only need 20 minutes. Then the judge said something about seeing if others were interested (?).

[Ed_Severson]

".....or get Sarah quarantined by the USDA!"

If we end up with one series, she'll definitely be one mad cow when she ends up rideless.

[Steve99]

FYI: TF and 7G are both down. Watch out WB. This place could get realllll busy.


Probably too many people hitting REFRESH every minute for the live updates.

[WickerBill]

I'm already waiting with anticipation for "the email" from my webhost.

But party on while it lasts folks :)

[cartcanuck]

Yup, just like the rest of us. At least we have OC and PT to keep us informed!! :) Thank goodness there are good programmers out there!!! :thumbup:

[RedLine]

At least ratemyrack.com is getting some relief from its usual high traffic.

[cartcanuck]

"the email"??? Exceeding bandwidth you mean??

If it happens, let us all know, I'm sure a few of us would pitch in a nice shiney Canadian twoonie or two :D

[JoeBob]

"the email"??? Exceeding bandwidth you mean??

If it happens, let us all know, I'm sure a few of us would pitch in a nice shiney Canadian twoonie or two :D

And even more of us would contribute real money ;)

[WickerBill]

Wabbit, you signed up but your email host is refusing the forum's confirmation email. Email me wickerbill@offcamber.net

[Brickman]

Well...

"The creditors committee chairman is currently on the stand, and being cross examined by both parties lawyers. The chairman is testifying that he has not saw a TV contract or contracts with the teams yet.

However, OWRS is stating that they can't possibly have a TV contract to show, because they essentially do not own anything."

[Steve99]

Who is the creditors committee chairperson?

[Turn7]

OK...plan #12. If OC gets the bandwidth police after it and the site goes down.

Everybody meet over at Paddocktalk.com and continue. We should be able to milly nilly around and get through the day....

[Racing Truth]

Well...

"The creditors committee chairman is currently on the stand, and being cross examined by both parties lawyers. The chairman is testifying that he has not saw a TV contract or contracts with the teams yet.

However, OWRS is stating that they can't possibly have a TV contract to show, because they essentially do not own anything."

Well, for one, "saw a contract????" Nice grammar for whoever wrote that e-mail. :shakehead

Isn't known that there will be a deal with CBS/Spike or not?

[RedLine]

"The chairman is testifying that he has not saw..."

Thank you for wording this so the visiting Gomers can understand what's happening. :gomer:

[WickerBill]

It's an Indianer courthouse! Get used to it...

The BW police shouldn't be coming. We're doing fine.

[Racewriter]

At least ratemyrack.com is getting some relief from its usual high traffic.

Hey, thanks for reminding me...:D:D:D

[RedLine]

It's an Indianer courthouse! Get used to it...

The BW police shouldn't be coming. We're doing fine.

Wicker, if you're a little light today, don't worry. I found an AMEX card in the Orvis parking lot today at lunch. ;)

[G.]

crack for'em is down now also. Get ready WickerBill... Here they come!!!

[cart7]

Latest forum server check:
7G - still down
CW - 350 est on line and slow
TF - still down
Paddock Talk - 300 on line and OK
OC -
:thumbup: Way to go boss. :D

[L1P1]

I'm starting to get uncomfortable with some of these quotes that are flying around. I could post anything I want and as long as it sounds plausible, it would probably end up on five sites within minutes. Ah well, got to trust something....

[RedLine]

:thumbup: I knew when I chose a racing forum this was the pick of the litter.

[Brickman]

I'd give the guy a grammar break. Bad grammar is better than no news.

I can't tell you who the chairperson is because my links to those documents are at 7G.

The lack of contracts for TV isn't good. PG should have letter of intent at least in hand, they would suffice. As for team contracts, you can guess that answer.

[KLang]

I'm starting to get uncomfortable with some of these quotes that are flying around. I could post anything I want and as long as it sounds plausible, it would probably end up on five sites within minutes. Ah well, got to trust something....

The last quote of Bricks showed up word for word at CW and PT. No idea what the original source is.