South African ChampCar Race update

[WWpantz]

From the fine folks at PaddockTalk (http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html)

It looks like the organizers are getting things set for a race we can be proud of. Here's to a smooth inaugural race in SA! :cool:

[pchall]

When I was a kid and first stumbled onto F1 I used to find old race reports of the F1 winter races in South Africa. One race was the Natal GP. Durban is on Natal Bay.

http://home.worldonline.co.za/~stefani_s/kzn-durban.gif

All of you street course design experts should get started now!

interactive map link for Durban (http://www.go2africa.com/south-africa/natal-coast/durban/)

[pchall]

The internet has everything!

Including a proposed street course for Durban in 2004:

http://www.racingcircuits.net/SouthAfrica/Durban%202003.gif

It is supposed to run clockwise. No circuit length given.

http://www.go2africa.com/south-africa/natal-coast/durban/#map

[RTKar]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the benefit to OWRS having a race in South Africa? It sounds exotic and interesting but the benefit as far as exposure for sponsors and the series escapes me.

[jonovision_man]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the benefit to OWRS having a race in South Africa? It sounds exotic and interesting but the benefit as far as exposure for sponsors and the series escapes me.

The same could have been said of Mexico before CART went there, and now look at how many sponsors, drivers, etc. we have because of it.

South Africa, like Mexico, has a tradition of F1 racing, at the old Kayalami circuit, which sadly has been largely reclaimed to build condominiums. :( Now that F1 isn't there, there is an opportunity to sell CART.

And like South Korea, presumably they are willing to pay big money for the race, which will help OWRS's bottom line.

F1 isn't ever going to be able to serve all of these countries, CART is cheaper and a damn good show. Probably part of the potential OWRS saw in the series was the potential strength abroad. And it sounds like they're being smart about it, not risking their own money for these ventures... South Korea is supposedly picking up the whole tab for their race, and if South Africa really wants a race they will also have to foot the bill.

jono

[Ankf00]

but we already had fernandez and jourdain before mexico no? albeit we gained gigante but that was jourdain's family hook up, and we did gain dominguez, dunno if herdez was around previous to that or not though

[devilmaster]

To answer RTKar and Ank:

Very simply, money.

One of the easiest ways to run a race nowadays is to get governments to back it.

Governments, who have a recurring source of money (taxes), can more easily afford the 10-20 million or so dollars (compared with just a promoter trying to find sponsors and ticket revenue) that it may cost them to help put on a race. When Australia annouces that the Surfers race brings in 60 million or so to the local economy, its becomes obvious to governments that spending that kind of money brings in revenue, more businesses, prestige and infrastructure.

Look at F1 going to Turkey and saying goodbye to places like Imola and other European races. Why? very simply, the Turkish government is backing it. Why Russia? Why China?

From OWRS or an F1 point of view, going to these places to race is easy because you don't have to worry bout a promoter not promoting or worse, screwing you. The government backs it and picks up the check. Thats alot different and convienient than say, portland who is asking CART to promote the portland race, or Miami.

In my opinion, the biggest conerstone of the OWRS budget plan, is to make money at these types of races where the government backs it (seoul, aussieland, south africa) so that they can afford to go to races where they aren't making as much money (Road America, Portland).

Now to the issue of sponsors not wanting races in Africa. If and when OWRS starts making more money, what they can do is give more money to the teams who race in the series. Whether it be by raising purses (only makes the rich richer, imo) or by giving some appearance monies. (By showing up at a race, you get 25000 per car as an example). Teams will still need sponsors, but help them out by giving some monies. The appearance monies concept is a valid working system - US Hot Rod employs it in their Monster Truck shows. Each show is a 'competition' as they call it, but in reality, each truck gets enough appearance monies to afford to go to these shows (and wreck their trucks night after night).

Who loses in all of this? American cities. For most big US cities that host or have hosted ChampCar races, using taxpayer monies to get the race hasn't been an option, and I seriously doubt US cities will start doing that. Hell, some states and communities won't give tax breaks for the possibility of landing an MLB team That should tell everyone right then and there where ChampCar stands.

I might get shot for saying this: Everything that is ChampCar at the moment is about propping up, financially, the US side of it. When we all talk about no tv package, we're talking american tv package. Dwindling attendance happens most notably at American races. But the truth of the matter is that ChampCar is an American race series. ChampCar needs America. So we need a plan of action to make America a viable race community again.

Gone are the days of paying monies to keep a Chicago paperclip on the series and trying to rekindle the Miami downtown race after leaving it for a few years.

So what is now? Make money on the new races, and show the world the 'government backed' races work. Show that it can be done anywhere. Then when you go to a major city to inquire about a new race (example:chicago) show the proven concept, and about how by the city investing in a race, hotels get booked, restaurants get eaten in, and the city economy gets a boost. Show these cities how places like Toronto and Surfer's Paradise make it a week long, profitable event. Show these cities that by investing in the race, they will be investing in their cities. Show them by giving 2 million(for example) to OWRS to race, that they are really giving 10 or 20 million direct investment to their own city. Then get a promoter that will promote. (not IMG!) If you have to, take all your race promoters to Toronto and visit Molson's promoting arm, MolStar entertainment.

So, in a nutshell, thats it. :D

Steve

[devilmaster]

The internet has everything!

Including a proposed street course for Durban in 2004:

http://www.racingcircuits.net/SouthAfrica/Durban%202003.gif


How much do you wanna bet that circle in the bottom left corner is some sort of fountain? :shakehead

[jonovision_man]

Who loses in all of this? American cities. For most big US cities that host or have hosted ChampCar races, using taxpayer monies to get the race hasn't been an option, and I seriously doubt US cities will start doing that. Hell, some states and communities won't give tax breaks for the possibility of landing an MLB team That should tell everyone right then and there where ChampCar stands.


State governments have put up the money for stadiums, arenas, etc in the past, when cities like Denver see a big economic boost from the race others take notice. While the international venues probably would pony up more money, US cities actually the advantage that the travel costs are quite a bit lower on the continent than off it. And in fact now that the financial benefit is going right into cities by way of street circuits, I think the potential for more American cities hosting races is actually quite good.

Other than that I agree with almost all of what you said.

jono

[devilmaster]

State governments have put up the money for stadiums, arenas, etc in the past, when cities like Denver see a big economic boost from the race others take notice. While the international venues probably would pony up more money, US cities actually the advantage that the travel costs are quite a bit lower on the continent than off it. And in fact now that the financial benefit is going right into cities by way of street circuits, I think the potential for more American cities hosting races is actually quite good.

Other than that I agree with almost all of what you said.

jono

I agree state governments will put up monies for events. Hell, some will fall over themselves trying to land an NFL franchise. My reference to the MLB was the talk last year or so about some of the counties that were offering to take the Montreal Expos. IIRC, (and maybe I don't) one or two counties weren't willing to give the tax break that would have helped the offer to get the Expos from MLB.

The talk about travel funds, imo, is a small part of a larger point. If you make an agreement to race in Durban, the promoter should have to pay to get the race over there. Just as if you make an agreement with Chicago, Chicago would pay for travel. The real challenge is getting cities to pay to make ChampCar profitable and the teams more financially stable. In short, why go to South Africa to race if Chicago put up the same monies? We go to South Africa cause they'll pay.

Will American cities want a race? of course. The real trick is convincing these cities to help pay for it. Any city council in their right mind would agree to host an event if they don't have to do anything. Case in point, Detroit. When CART announced the schedule for the upcoming year, and Detroit wasn't on it (2001 or 2002?, can't remember), Detroit city council was shocked. I remember watching the fallout on the news. I also remember sitting in the grandstands at the end of the last Detroit Grand Prix, with all these other fans, and we all knew it wasn't coming back. We were all talking about which races to go to instead, who had gone to what race, which ones were recommended. So how does the average Joe Blow fan know what the series is going to do, and the city hosting it doesn't? Its obvious that to get a race nowadays, the city has to be an active participant.

The challenge is not getting a city to agree to a race, but getting a city to be an active participant in the promotion and funding of the race. Over at CW we talked about Belle Isle once and what it would take to make it a worthwhile race.

Naturally, there are detractors to the Belle Isle race. Grass paddock, crappy track, etc.etc.etc. On that CW thread, I went through the thread and about 95 percent of the complaints about Belle Isle could have been fixed. The island had only one major problem. 1 bridge. Ingress and Egress were about as bad as Michigan Speedway on a Nascar weekend. Everything else, in my mind, could have been fixed, given a city council that gave a damn and a promoter that did its job, imo. Could Belle Isle be a valued race? Imo, yes. It would take money to improve the island, a better laid out and improved track, some new buildings to support the teams, and a new agreement with the yacht club on the island, and the zoo. In 2006 Detroit hosts the superbowl. With many monies coming in, Detroit should be looking at other events that will return on a regular basis, to continue the revenue stream to pay for the SuperBowl improvments. Also, city council is looking at a riverfront parkland system like its river neighbor, Windsor. This parkland is to extend to around Belle Isle. Belle Isle could be another Albert Park (F1 Aussie racegrounds). It needs a city council with vision and a pocketbook, but I digress.

In the end, OWRS can make ChampCar viable. There is nothing wrong with having a money losing race or two, as long as the other races make enough money to cover it. That way, we as fans can keep the RA's and MO's.

Steve

[pchall]

So, in a nutshell, thats it. :D

Steve


That's at least a cocanut, not a peanut. ;)

[pchall]

How much do you wanna bet that circle in the bottom left corner is some sort of fountain? :shakehead

Somebody (YOU!) needs to get a terraserver picture of Durban.

[JT265]

Stevie, take the two chicane fountains out of the front straight and I'm there!

:thumbup:

[devilmaster]

Somebody (YOU!) needs to get a terraserver picture of Durban.

To do that, someone (YOU!) has to pay for a terraserver.com account so I can download the pics. ;)

And why is it that the more I look at the pic of that proposed Durban venue, it just looks like Miami's track warmed over?

Steve

[pchall]

And why is it that the more I look at the pic of that proposed Durban venue, it just looks like Miami's track warmed over?




I think it looks more like a mouse with a broken tail. :p

[RTKar]

Many of the reasons for going to South Africa, I either knew or assumed. It's great to get a paying customer to rake in a few Mill' ala Australia but I guess my point and question becomes. How do we get sponsors by going to South Africa. What North American company wants to be marketed there? and, Are there South African companies capable of being sponsors that want to be Marketed in Canada, Mexico and the US ? Also, since I feel the real war of open wheel racing is for tv ratings, how does racing in South Africa help on that front?

Personally I think it would be an interesting venue, it's exotic and lends some panache to the series. Short term it seems to be a no brainer but long term I wonder...especially with sponsorship being difficult to obtain. Remember the quandary when Target was a CART sponsor? They wanted North American exposure not exposure over seas....look where they are now.

[racer2c]

This reminds me of the issue brought up by, I believe someone associated with TCGR, either from the Target side or the racing side. My memory sucks so forgive my lack of details. Anyhoo, I think it was during the last Belle Isle race where this person took an un-official and impromptu survey down paddock row, asking who was in CART for international purposes and who wasn't. The final survey came to about 50/50. The ones who weren't you ask? Target (gone), Marlboro (gone), Texaco (stayed until they got bought), Players (stayed until the law said stop). My point is that this person wanted to drive home the message not so much to the sponsors, but to CART itself. What do you want to be? How are you positioning yourself?
I remember Brahma with Boesel. You had Players with Tracy and PC. Now you have Fernandez with Tecate and Jr with Gigante and Herdez with um...
So, my point being that if the new Champ Car has a clear, defined international business model, I can see the benefit from trying a race here and there in high profile (read 'ready to spend') markets around the world. The risk is that, as history has shown, these races last approximately two years. So Champ Car makes some money and moves on. The damage being the perception of failure from the fans and the would be sponsors/promoters. Race fans love tradition, especially formula fans. I would like to see Champ Car, somehow enter into these new markets with some sort of longevity in place. Even if it's just a five year deal.
Champ Car is poised to be a 50% domestic, 50% international series. The driver population should reflect that percentage also with the teams from each country placing one of their nationals in the the seat.
But, I just had a big Sunday night dinner and a few beers and I'm dreaming of the perfect Champ Car world. :)

That circuit is very 'Miami'esque'. Now do we know if it's 1.7miles or 2.7? That big right hand sweeper (the mouses back) would be cool at 220mph. :)

[jonovision_man]

This reminds me of the issue brought up by, I believe someone associated with TCGR, either from the Target side or the racing side. My memory sucks so forgive my lack of details. Anyhoo, I think it was during the last Belle Isle race where this person took an un-official and impromptu survey down paddock row, asking who was in CART for international purposes and who wasn't. The final survey came to about 50/50. The ones who weren't you ask? Target (gone), Marlboro (gone), Texaco (stayed until they got bought), Players (stayed until the law said stop). My point is that this person wanted to drive home the message not so much to the sponsors, but to CART itself. What do you want to be? How are you positioning yourself?
I remember Brahma with Boesel. You had Players with Tracy and PC. Now you have Fernandez with Tecate and Jr with Gigante and Herdez with um...
So, my point being that if the new Champ Car has a clear, defined international business model, I can see the benefit from trying a race here and there in high profile (read 'ready to spend') markets around the world. The risk is that, as history has shown, these races last approximately two years. So Champ Car makes some money and moves on. The damage being the perception of failure from the fans and the would be sponsors/promoters. Race fans love tradition, especially formula fans. I would like to see Champ Car, somehow enter into these new markets with some sort of longevity in place. Even if it's just a five year deal.
Champ Car is poised to be a 50% domestic, 50% international series. The driver population should reflect that percentage also with the teams from each country placing one of their nationals in the the seat.
But, I just had a big Sunday night dinner and a few beers and I'm dreaming of the perfect Champ Car world. :)

That circuit is very 'Miami'esque'. Now do we know if it's 1.7miles or 2.7? That big right hand sweeper (the mouses back) would be cool at 220mph. :)

That's a good point, but there are also some long-standing international successes, namely Canada and Aussie. If the new international races are modelled more after that, they could be successful. Mexico is new-ish, but it shows no signs of going downhill, in fact it'll probably be a permanent fixture on the calendar. (Japan also would probably still be a well-attended success if not for Honda and Toyota leaving the series.)

The bad ones - ie. the Euro-swing, Rockingham (UK) and Germany - didn't have that long-term commitment, and what you're talking about was almost inevitable there. They were trying to build something out of nothing, and didn't have the marketting or solid partnerships to get it done. The German circuit going under, for instance... it was on shakey ground from the start.

So which kind is South Korea? :thumbup: ? :thumdown: ?

jono

[pchall]

Many of the reasons for going to South Africa, I either knew or assumed. It's great to get a paying customer to rake in a few Mill' ala Australia but I guess my point and question becomes. How do we get sponsors by going to South Africa. What North American company wants to be marketed there? and, Are there South African companies capable of being sponsors that want to be Marketed in Canada, Mexico and the US ? Also, since I feel the real war of open wheel racing is for tv ratings, how does racing in South Africa help on that front?


SA is a developing market for US style consumer services -- lots of Big Macs in the future there and US softdrinks are king. Consumer goods will be in great demand as the economy develops and it is unlikely that SA will be working on supplying the demand from its own factories -- that takes decades to develop. Meanwhile there is an SA brewery conglomerate that dominates the continent and has been acquiring brands in Europe and NA. The wine industry there is going to become the next Australia and needs the US market. The mineral wealth in SA and nearby states in enormous and varied, so the B2B with NA and world industries is certainly something that will be important. And lastly, the Durban/Natal area is gorgeous and just needs the same kind of international publicity the Australia's Gold Coast wanted out of their CART race to raise interest for the tourist business.

[racer2c]

SA is a developing market for US style consumer services -- lots of Big Macs in the future there and US softdrinks are king. Consumer goods will be in great demand as the economy develops and it is unlikely that SA will be working on supplying the demand from its own factories -- that takes decades to develop. Meanwhile there is an SA brewery conglomerate that dominates the continent and has been acquiring brands in Europe and NA. The wine industry there is going to become the next Australia and needs the US market. The mineral wealth in SA and nearby states in enormous and varied, so the B2B with NA and world industries is certainly something that will be important. And lastly, the Durban/Natal area is gorgeous and just needs the same kind of international publicity the Australia's Gold Coast wanted out of their CART race to raise interest for the tourist business.

Ahh, the B2B. Thanks for reminding me. You see that was my protagonists problem with CART. CART claimed to have a b2b business plan in place but the half of the sponsors wanted nothing to do with the other half because one wanted one thing in international exposure and the other just homegrown goodness. My hope is that the new owners establish an clearly defined business plan so that we don't have the shots in the dark that we had with CART. Everyone needs to know why they are there.

[Ankf00]

I wonder if all those circles are all roundabouts...

and ya," warmed over Miami" was right... :rolleyes: oh well, better than the real Miami imo

[pchall]

I wonder if all those circles are all roundabouts...

and ya," warmed over Miami" was right... :rolleyes: oh well, better than the real Miami imo


At least this circuit is suppose to be over 2 miles long.

[jonovision_man]

Autosport is reporting that this is a go.

http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=25986&s=54

The 2004 Champ Car World Series will include a new street race in the South African city of Durban, according to the Durban Mercury. Swiss magazine Motorsport Aktuell reports today that Stephen Watson, the manager of the Racing for South Africa Association (R4SA), told the newspaper that negotiations over a five-year deal with OWRS had reached "a positive conclusion".

jono

[racer2c]

Autosport is reporting that this is a go.

http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=25986&s=54

The 2004 Champ Car World Series will include a new street race in the South African city of Durban, according to the Durban Mercury. Swiss magazine Motorsport Aktuell reports today that Stephen Watson, the manager of the Racing for South Africa Association (R4SA), told the newspaper that negotiations over a five-year deal with OWRS had reached "a positive conclusion".

jono

A five year deal...they read my mind! Good to see. :) :gomer:

[jonovision_man]

A five year deal...they read my mind! Good to see. :) :gomer:

Haven't seen any announcments from CART yet, but if true, certainly looks good, like you said a longer term deal like 5 years is great for building loyalty to the series and developing a fan base.

Keep the good news coming... :)

jono