View Full Version : History of Champcar Racing Forums?
Andrew Longman
02-16-04, 03:49 PM
The demise of 7g and comments on its history got me thinking of the benefit of documenting the history of Champcar sites and forums, kinda like ChrisB's now famous "history of the split".
Unfortunately I am unqualified.
I literally stumbled on 7G in 1997 or abouts, tried out a few other sites, but kept almost entirely to 7G. I didn't get into or care to understand the politics behind the scenes and frankly can't understand how anyone puts in the work to keep them going (THANKS AGAIN WB!). I just enjoyed finding folks that shared my interest in Champcars (really hard to find in Jersey and in a NASCAR dominated North America)
With 7G gone I suddenly have a greater interest to understand the history and workings of these forums.
Anyone care to start a history?
When I first got on the internet in Dec. of 1995, I soon found the Indianapolis Star's SpeedNet forums. They were great - great for fighting and arguing. Originally there was only one forum for CART & the IRL. That was loads of fun. ;) Eventually it was split into two forums. Sadly that forum is a toxic wasteland now. It had its moments though. Spent some time on RASI which was fun in the early split years. Haven't looked at newgroups in years, though so I have no idea what its like now.
I lurked for many years, starting at RASI around 1994/1995 (Back when some dude named Racin Gardner was saying he'd be racing in the IRL, and everybody assumed it was some sort of hoax.) However, I didn't register on any forum until Greg Moore's crash in 1999. The Speednet forums were the biggest "web forums" until the war started taking its toll on each side. 7G was the haven for CART fans while TrackForum eventually became the haven for IRL fans.
On the news front, back around 1995/1996, Peter Burke's Speedcenter was the big news/rumor site. (With Speednet representing "traditional media.") After a while, 7G took the title (and MarkC left SpeedCenter for 7G, taking SpeedCenter's Silly Season logos with him to 7G). Later, Mark left 7G for his own site (this time taking the website design and mailing list with him) splitting the "rumor site" audience a bit more.
Other forums and News sites have come and gone over the years ( iRace was another big one for both news and forums - the closest decendant of iRace might be speedtv.com, but IIRC it took a crazy path to get there.)
WickerBill
02-16-04, 04:23 PM
I'll start, others can finish (and correct) what I write...
First internet discussion medium was the Usenet group "rec.autos.sport.indy", or RASI for brevity. This existed beginning in 1992, from what I understand; not exactly sure when it started. Probably not much further back than that. It was THE place to talk to other IndyCar fans, contained some incredibly knowledgable people and lots of everyday fans of the Indy 500 and the drivers.
In 1995, I believe, The Indianapolis Star and News opened Speednet, their racing pages. On it there were forums (perhaps the forums came a year later), split up conveniently between Formula 1, IndyCar, NASCAR, and there was even a board about the new series Tony George was running, the IRL. Surprise.
In 1996, SpeedCenter went online, following CART exclusively (except for it's first season, where they also went to the Indy 500). While primarily a photo site, in 1997 they added forums on which a few dozen people participated.
In 1997 or 1998 (not sure), iRace.com opened their forums, and they were an immediate hit. They were probably the first web-based forum that was truly populated by fans of all series. Where Speednet was mostly IRL fans, and SpeedCenter was exclusively CART fans, iRace catered to both (and every other racing series known in the US).
(someone fill in the blank here about motorsportforums, the ultimate "shared" forum resource)
In late 1998 or early 1999, Seventhgear.com opened with the latest and greatest forum software, UBB. Boosted by mentions on RASI and Speednet, most CART fans gravitated to 7G. When 7G was mentioned at a Winners Circle Fan Club meeting in Mid-Ohio that year, membership in the forums exploded and the 7G forums gained their stature as THE place to be.
In 2000, Mark Cippolini (sp?) left his editor spot at 7G and started his own site, which tied into the motorsportforums.com site, thereby putting it on the champcar fans' map (previously, there were not very many CART-only fans using these forums).
In 2002, Crapwagon.com and OffCamber.net were born, both with individual forums.
In 2003, PaddockTalk.com was born, again with it's own forum.
What did I miss?
The compuserve forums probably fit in somewhere, but that wasn't part of the Internet at large. But, from what I've heard, they were busy and full of insiders.
Andrew Longman
02-16-04, 04:37 PM
Geez I forgot about Speedcenter. That's were I actually started following a CART forum and then wound up somehow at 7G (I guess when MarkC went there). I can't believe I forgot that.
ten-tenths has its own CART forum, am not sure about its chronological details hoewever
Sean O'Gorman
02-16-04, 05:49 PM
I took an unusual path here. When I first got onto the Internet (late '96) I was still in jr. high, and I didn't really use it for auto racing news, since I still subscribed to AutoWeek, Racer, etc...my primary use was for sim racing, I was huge into IndyCar II. I discovered an ICR2 forum in mid-97 and from there some members led me to the AOL Grandstand forums. There were CART, IRL, NASCAR, WSC, etc. The CART and WSC forums were great forums, the golden age to me. The IRL forum was always a mess because of the constant bickering. Some of the names from the sim racing and CART/IRL forums that you guys would know are Mcguireb and NYR (yes, he had the same Taco Bell/Metallica/Hockey/Budweiser sig then too ;) ).
The 7G name came up on occasion, mostly talking about the site itself, because everyone on AOL thought the forums were a mess. I didn't like 7G when I first went to it, because I couldn't stand Mark C. The AOL forum got a kick out of the fake rumors I would send to Mark and he would publish, and others would contribute as we'd get "Speculation" changed to "Fairly Strong" and bordering on Fact on stupid topics like Oreca to CART or Watkins Glen to CART.
The AOL forums were a great group of people, but AOL itself sucked, so posting dwindled as people left for other ISPs. People were getting nastier too...the hardcore trolls would post under multiple screen names and use them for flaming other members...one person went so far as to find another member posted an online personals ad, and made sure to ridicule him with every post. Hilarious, yes, but a bit over the edge. I stuck around since there were still a few good people, but I also registered at post-Mark C. 7G, mostly for the Ladder Series forum. Eventually things got ugly enough at the AOL forum I decided it wasn't worth visiting anymore, so I became a regular at 7G around mid-2001. And somehow I ended up finding OC shortly after it was created, but WickerBill was nice enough to let me in anyway. :thumbup:
Great thread! I was thinking along the same lines last week, as a few new names from the past popped up in threads.
-Kevin
pfc_m_drake
02-16-04, 06:11 PM
The AOL forum got a kick out of the fake rumors I would send to Mark and he would publish, and others would contribute as we'd get "Speculation" changed to "Fairly Strong" and bordering on Fact on stupid topics like Oreca to CART or Watkins Glen to CART.
Interestingly enough, being that I live near Watkins Glen, I can attest to the fact that the whole 'CART to Watkins Glen' thing did get some press in the local media over the years. In fact, there was enough 'press' on the topic that I'm inclined to believe that something was going on during that time. Whether or not that something was 'Fairly Strong', 'Pure Speculation', or 'No way Jose' I really can't say.
Back on topic though - nobody's mentioned TrackForum or their story...although I would imagine they got going sometime around the start of the IRL.
Sean O'Gorman
02-16-04, 06:14 PM
Interestingly enough, being that I live near Watkins Glen, I can attest to the fact that the whole 'CART to Watkins Glen' thing did get some press over the years. In fact, there was enough 'press' on the topic that I'm inclined to believe that something was going on over the years. Whether or not that something was 'Fairly Strong', 'Pure Speculation', or 'No way Jose' I really can't say.
Back on topic though - nobody's mentioned TrackForum or their story...although I would imagine they got going sometime around the start of the IRL.
When I say that we got CART to Watkins Glen rumors going, it was with off the wall rumors. Like that a Champ Car was being tested at the track the week before the FIA GT race (which Oreca coincidentally happened to be racing in), which got Mark C. to say something like "somethin's cookin and we're on the prawl!" :rolleyes: :laugh:
I think one person actually sent an e-mail to Mark claiming to be an Oreca team member.
WickerBill
02-16-04, 06:16 PM
Back on topic though - nobody's mentioned TrackForum or their story...although I would imagine they got going sometime around the start of the IRL.
Cause it's not a champcar racing forum. :)
Back on topic though - nobody's mentioned TrackForum or their story...although I would imagine they got going sometime around the start of the IRL.
I mentioned 'em in my post. :p
pfc_m_drake
02-16-04, 07:16 PM
Opps...yes you did. My bad...I read too quickly. :o
In addition to WB's post about rasi.... apparently the original usenet forum was simply rec.autos.sport and in the early 90's it was split up into ras.nascar, indy, & f1. (I started on rasi about '95). Soon after the split, the friction between the IRL and CART increased and there were 2 attempts to create a separate ras.cart in '96 and '97 (anyone remember Ehud?) whihch both failed. In '99 Brian Sweeney (remember him too?) took up the third try to get a ras.cart started. Here's the irony... the voting started just a few days before Fontana '99, and was sorta slow at first. Then came the Greg Moore accident and people flooded onto rasi. It was during this that many found out about the voting going on for ras.cart, and this time it passed by a wide margin.
More irony... just as ras.cart gets going in late '99, along comes UBB software which pretty much was the killer app for web forums... and took a big bite outta usenet. It was easier to use, easy to read, and allowed in-line images and moderating that usenet couldn't.
eiregosod
02-16-04, 10:54 PM
(anyone remember Ehud?) .
Ehud posts at Crapwagon.
Very interesting thread!
I do recall various factions of 7G forum members branching out into MarkC's AR1 and race family motorsports.
I was involved for a few months as a moderator on the motorsportforum.com forums (which includes' AR1 in its stable). Their model (as with ten-tenths.com) is to get many motorsport news webites to link to their forums.
The MSF CART board membership did swell up to quite a sizeable number, at its peak in 2002, it was easily the most popular forum there and right up there with the most popular CART froums.
Their downfall was having to deal with an irreconcilable condition in aspiring to create a positive CART & positive IRL board. Naturally this lead to many arguments and name-calling which was taken to atmospheric heights after the 2002 Indy 500.
The CART fans created a yahoo group, cartbrickheads(which is still there today) to 'speak their minds' and post satirical photoshoped pics defaming IRL people and people they hated at MSF.
Then in August 2002, crapwagon.com forums opened, those forums declared open-season on the EARL and those who harboured them. Many msf/brickhead members took like a duck to water at those forums by not having to engage in self-censorship, and when a few got permanently banned at MSF , the rest of the CART contingent followed them over. Luckily for crapwagon they reached critical mass for forum members pretty quickly. However not all CW members descend from MSF, many came from other shores.
Cause it's not a champcar racing forum. :)
Right. It's a "CART obsessed" hate forum. ;)
eiregosod
02-16-04, 11:10 PM
Right. It's a "CART obsessed" hate forum. ;)
I dont even think racing has ever been discussed at TF!
The compuserve forums probably fit in somewhere, but that wasn't part of the Internet at large. But, from what I've heard, they were busy and full of insiders.
JB, thanks for mentioning CS forums. They were indeed very busy, and peaked in the '96/'97 timeframe, which was about when CS membership started to decline, and Usenet/Web forums started to reach critical mass. CS was also an associate sponsor for Team Rahal around this time, but the deal ended early when CS was being shopped by H&R Block, and later sold off to AOL.
-Kevin
Mike Kellner
02-17-04, 12:30 AM
I got a modem (14.4K - $189) and a memory upgrade (8Mbytes - $129) for my old Mac in June of 96. It took me about three days online before I found SpeedNet. I had never heard of a forum. I lurked for about 30 minutes and made a post. I was immediately set upon by Farley & Novi as a know nothing CART elitist, wine and cheese tasting Yuppy, and the fun began. Somehow, I fit right in. In its first version, SpeedNet had no memberships, so you could make each post with a new name if you wanted, and change your e-mail too. The names and e-mail addresses were often as funny as the posts. The place was not for the thin skinned. Their second forum software was more like today's, and you had to register. That cut down on the fun a lot. Still, if you were into IndyCar flame wars, it was the place to be. I am forever proud of the fact that I was voted "Most Pompous A**hole on SpeedNet" by my peers. Considering the competition, that was quite an accomplishment.
I wish I had written it down, but I think my membership date at 7G was April 99. I was originally member 20, but then they did something to the files and I was changed to 40. At any rate I joined in the first week or two. There were a few members dated from the previous month, because the forum had opened in the last few days of that month. 7G didn't get real active the first few months, and was mostly inhabited by IRL trolls who filled the CART forum with, "I love CART as much as anyone, except I only make negative posts about it.", type posts. I think we all know who they are, most are still at TF. Meanwhile, SpeedNet had become overrun with tedious morons, and the fun was subsiding. Later in the year, me and a few buddies decided to go to 7G, and claim it for CART fans. Once it became apparent the real fun was at 7G, the serious CART forum rats abandoned SpeedNet and headed to 7G. There, the old SpeedNet gang had a reprise of the golden age, though it was moderated gently, and we had to behave better than we did on SpeedNet. I have little to say about the demise of 7G, as I was not there when it happened. In 02, I got bored with having the same six arguments, with the same six people day after day, and decided it was time to move on.
mk
IlliniRacer
02-17-04, 12:38 AM
I too started out on SpeedCenter around 97 or 98. I remember hearing about 7th Gear after Greg's death and became a member there in Nov of 99. A friendly PM in January of 03 lead me here.
I have lurked at SpeedNet and TrackForum for amusement purposes. I have lurked at CrapWagon but just don't find it to my taste. Like I need anyother website to waste time at anyway :p
Brickman
02-17-04, 01:00 AM
Never liked CompuServe and didn't post much. SpeedNet God bless it's heart had software where you could change your identity daily, but the IP numbers were shown.
They finally got that all changed around with people stealing Mike's name and others, some did it as a joke and gave names back, others didn't. It was a mess over there and only some guy with a name longer than Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious posted on the CART forum... of course they had the Poyt, son of Poyt, etc spamming their little hearts out on the IRL forum. That place never recovered. Some headed to 7G and others to TrackForum.
Although others opinions may differ, but I believe it was CART's health that effected 7G's forum. Not enough good news, not enough good things happening, on track discussion mixed with business/stock discussion. More bad then good.
So is life.
Brickman
02-17-04, 01:03 AM
I wish I had written it down, but I think my membership date at 7G was April 99. I was originally member 20, but then they did something to the files and I was changed to 40.
Actually I think you were March 99. I was April 99.
WickerBill
02-17-04, 05:20 AM
Actually I think you were March 99. I was April 99.
Are you loons going to make me pull out my old backups of the 7G forums? :)
originally posted by Wickerbill
In 1997 or 1998 (not sure), iRace.com opened their forums, and they were an immediate hit. They were probably the first web-based forum that was truly populated by fans of all series. Where Speednet was mostly IRL fans, and SpeedCenter was exclusively CART fans, iRace catered to both (and every other racing series known in the US).
Wow, those are some sites from the past. I was a member of all 3 of those. I joined 7G in Aug of 99 when it was apparent it was THE site for Cart. Posted on and off for around a year then I bugged out of forums for around a year. (Job change and new duties). When I came back, I think iRace was gone, the Speedcenter had shut down it's forums. 7G was still in full stride though it had taken a graphics change for the better?? There was also a new site, TF, which I decided to join just for the heck of it and to keep them honest. ;) I post mainly here, occasionaly at CW, joined Paddocktalk though I've got about 5 posts and still at TF on the few boards I've not been banned off of.
There are a couple others not mentioned, CartRocks and Cartpages. Neither is in the league of any mentioned so far nor have I ever bothered to join.
Back in real old days I used to be on the old RIS (Racing Information Services) site, I think they were tied to Compuserve, with my 300 baud modem. When I upgraded to a 1200 baud modem I was amazed to be able to actually download their logo! Back then drivers (Tommy Kendell, Eddie Cheever) and others (Paul Page) could log in with their real names with any problems.
jonovision_man
02-17-04, 09:55 AM
I should mention the Yahoo CART Racing group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cartracing/
I stumbled upon it a few years ago, it's quiet (easier to keep up with!) but there are a good group of people. It's been under "new" management for about a year now. Grunschev owns it (I think), he posts here too, I'm a moderator.
All are welcome, we just require a brief intro as we had a lot of spammers for a while there.
jono
bigdcart
02-17-04, 10:08 AM
Surprisingly, after all of these years, I have just found this site. After 7G unceremoniously shut down last week, I’ve been fumbling and stumbling around trying to find a decent replacement. I was at speed tv’s message boards for a while, but if I see another zippy-post I think I’ll scream. I was quickly ‘shown the door’ at crapwagon by a moderator for disavowing their hateful vulgarity and immature name-calling. Good to see the likes of SOG, B-man, AL, pfc and Ank again. Where does paper post now?
Where does paper post now?
CW and paddocktalk
Brickman
02-17-04, 11:13 AM
Are you loons going to make me pull out my old backups of the 7G forums? :)
That would be fun. ;)
I always remembered Mikey signing up before me but the alphabetical kicked in at 10 or something so I was #11. There was a nice thread you made once showing the correct order of signups.
JLMannin
02-17-04, 12:34 PM
Someone who knows the full story should post the saga of the "coffee club". It was a secret society of lemmings at speednet (before they were known as lemmings) that would orchestarte attackacks of CART fans. They even had a private website. Eventually, the clandestine website was doscovered and I remember there was a huge meltdown.
I was only marginally active in forumland at the time, so that is all the details I know.
edit - Remember forum nuking on speednet? It was a serrendipitious discovery that placing a "{" in the subject line would cause the thread to become unviewable, thus "nuked" It was a bug of the version of UBB in use at the time.
Brickman
02-17-04, 01:11 PM
Someone who knows the full story should post the saga of the "coffee club". It was a secret society of lemmings at speednet (before they were known as lemmings) that would orchestarte attackacks of CART fans. They even had a private website. Eventually, the clandestine website was doscovered and I remember there was a huge meltdown.
I was only marginally active in forumland at the time, so that is all the details I know.
edit - Remember forum nuking on speednet? It was a serrendipitious discovery that placing a "{" in the subject line would cause the thread to become unviewable, thus "nuked" It was a bug of the version of UBB in use at the time.
The self nuking posts was pretty funny in a way. Yes I knew at least one member of the coffee club, never got the full story. I should ask.
Are you loons going to make me pull out my old backups of the 7G forums? :)
Actually, I went to check my sign up date the day they unplugged it. :gomer:
I'd love to know when I signed up.
I'm late to this gig, after wandering around aimlessly since 7G closed shop. I'm not a rabid poster so it takes me awhile when folks move.
I visited and posted regularly at Speednet during '95. I've wondered sometimes about "whatever happened to..." many of the original gang, especially fellow enthusiasts who got fed up with the personal attacks and the sending of posting info to their bosses at work.
I was 272 at 7G, discovering it a little late in the process of Speednet going to the dogs and just getting busy at work and at home.
It's nice to see some familiar handles here even though I'm sure few know me since I tend to lurk more than I post. I look primarily for real racing information: What a driver or team owner said; what was overheard on the scanners during the race; where's Vasser or Bell going to end up, etc.
I think I'll just make myself at home.
Big Mo
Actually, I went to check my sign up date the day they unplugged it. :gomer:
I'd love to know when I signed up.
I signed up on Tuesday.
but of course I can't prove that now. ;)
SpeedNet was a blast. I got online and on SN around the Fall of 1998. I made alot of friends. I went to seventhGear very reluctantly, it's only saving grace IMO was Laguna.
I could go on, but whats the point? Leo 'da Lurker was one of the greatest posters ever. There was a guy named "supercharger" who was pretty slick as well. CMD7 and Kellner are some of the best tech guys I have come across.
I really enjoy Offcamber. I think its one of the saner message boards ever. There is no doubt that Champcar Racing here rules the roost. No need to try to convert anyone.
How's the vision looking Brickman?
Ziggy
I started reading ras.indy sometime in around 1997 and was one of the "yes" voters to Brian Sweeney's proposition to create ras.cart.
I split most of my posting between ras.cart and 7th Gear that I signed up to sometime in 2000 after lurking for a while.
I enjoyed ras.cart as it was more of a Euro-centric view of CART with guys like myself, Olav, Sander, HansV and a few others, good fun had there.
The troll accussed of being Allan Pagan has been marauding the group for some months now, using a variety oif different handles and somehow finding time to post a hundred odd messages a day literally!
Some people seem to have no lives....
I am forever proud of the fact that I was voted "Most Pompous A**hole on SpeedNet" by my peers.
I also remember that you were called the "Buttplug of Arrogance" by one of those knobs. Can't remember which one though.
speednet in the glory days was definitely the most fun you could have on a racing forum. there were some fairly sharp witted lemmings (or is that an oxymoron?) with whom to trade creative insults.
I remember to this day one of those ubiquitous attendance threads, where hairs were being split as to whether there were 30,000 or 32,500 gomers in the stands at a particular hIRL event, when one fella chimed in with "why don't you just ask your wife? she knows what 30,000 paying customers looks like..."
:thumbup:
Artemus
02-18-04, 02:01 PM
I started posting to rec.autos.sport.indy in '94 when it first appeared on my server. I thought that that was when it split from rec.autos.sport, but it may have just been picked up late. I had a lot of fun on that group from '94 to about '98 (posting under my real name...anyone who was there then may be able to guess it from my handle here), but it slowly decayed over the years. It is now a cesspool. I seriously doubt that the current troller on ras.cart is Alan Pagan. Alan was always way above that behavior.
Unfortunately, SpeedNet went through the same decay as ras.*. It seems that the Internet is too impersonal for people to behave themselves without active moderation. I'm glad I learned about this forum when seventhgear disappeared. (Laguna == Wickerbill? :eek: I never would have guessed that despite a lot of lurking over the years. Good job!)
eiregosod
02-18-04, 02:09 PM
I remember to this day one of those ubiquitous attendance threads, where hairs were being split as to whether there were 30,000 or 32,500 gomers in the stands at a particular hIRL event, when one fella chimed in with "why don't you just ask your wife? she knows what 30,000 paying customers looks like..."
:thumbup:
I agree that is a smackdown! Infinetely better than the U Suk tirades we have now!
Back in real old days I used to be on the old RIS (Racing Information Services) site, I think they were tied to Compuserve, with my 300 baud modem. When I upgraded to a 1200 baud modem I was amazed to be able to actually download their logo! Back then drivers (Tommy Kendell, Eddie Cheever) and others (Paul Page) could log in with their real names with any problems.
Ahhh...Those were the days! It was amazing how casual it was there and how many people I still keep in touch with that I met on RIS.
I'll never forget downloading all of the race summaries, etc. and faxing them to my friends who weren't on CompuServe back then.
Obviously the amount of information available on the web today is fantastic so I'm not complaining about the current state of things. This forum, for example, reminds me of the early days of 7G when there was a small, close-knit group of users who shared a common interest. We all know how the split and competing websites caused many fans to focus more on politics and less on racing.
I can't wait for the new season to start -- I think all of us need a good race fix!!
Brickman
02-20-04, 01:02 AM
SpeedNet was a blast. I got online and on SN around the Fall of 1998. I made alot of friends. I went to seventhGear very reluctantly, it's only saving grace IMO was Laguna.
I could go on, but whats the point? Leo 'da Lurker was one of the greatest posters ever. There was a guy named "supercharger" who was pretty slick as well. CMD7 and Kellner are some of the best tech guys I have come across.
I really enjoy Offcamber. I think its one of the saner message boards ever. There is no doubt that Champcar Racing here rules the roost. No need to try to convert anyone.
How's the vision looking Brickman?
Ziggy
Let me talk about Leo first, than the vision.
The best thing about Leo was he was a sharp as they came, he always took a break after the racing was done, he didn't hang around to be dragged down by the off season. I enjoyed the few e-mails I received from him, his analogy about Indy and Miss America was simply unforgettable. He's been gone from SpeedNet since 1998-99, maybe he lurked with a different name at 7G or now just watches baseball games in Seattle.
The vision was about control... Nothing more, those who buy a product because of percieved good are really buying a product to make the manufacturer money. Coke isn't the real thing, Chevrolet isn't the Heartbeat of America, and the IRL wasn't created for an opportunity for Americans. Newest IRL shoe, British driver Ben Collins and his sponsor British Tourism Board says it all... again.
msvphoto
02-20-04, 04:44 PM
Great thread...
My first venture into any type of motorsports forums was right after Senna died. I went and found some AO(hel)L forum to commiserate with other saddened fans. After that I found iRace a year or so later which I frequented a bit. iRace later became merged with the old Speedvision forums which remained pretty good for a while, until "Jane" came along that is. It was on the Speedvision forums I first found 7thgear which became a pretty regular haunt of mine for some time. The ALMS (imsaracing.net) forum is another I have been around for a few years now. For the past year or so I haven't had nearly as much idle time to enjoy the comradierie of the forums and mail lists I belong to, so these days I tend to be more of a lurker than participant. However, I notice a number of user names that I recognize and have seen for quite a few years now...hello all!
fourrunner
02-20-04, 04:58 PM
SPEEDNET shows what happens to a Forum when there is NO Moderator and Anything can be posted and you don't care what people think!
7G shows what happens to a Forum when there IS a moderator and you worry about WHAT Everybody thinks.
OC & "Middle age" 7G shows what happens to a Forum when there is a Moderator and the Moderator controls the site by the definition of the word....... "Moderation".
And I'm NOT kissing anybodies Ass ! ;) ( Can I say that? :eek: )
Hot Rod Otis
02-20-04, 05:06 PM
I first got on Speednet in May of 1996 (not as HRO), when it was all out Global Thermo-Nuclear War. Those were the days, Webb trying to get people fired for what they posted on S/N, my fav, RaceGuy, with his hysterical fake e-mail addys, (Indy500@bulls****.gov). RaceGuy drove the lemmings nuts. It was insane, a lot of fun though. I hung around till about Jan of 97, when it just got to over-the-top. I remember and enjoyed S/N's brief revival a few years later. I remember either Kellner or DaveL's sig line was "We're putting the band back together." But the final nail was driven in S/N's coffin by Knockoff and Hooter/Defender's moronic assaults. I registered briefly as "The Ghost of Elmer George" but never posted. I stayed away from ALL forums for about a year and a half after that, and only grudgingly registered @7G in June 1999. The last year or so was really bad @ 7G. I barely even lurked there anymore. I saw @ TF where silva said that 7thGear died the day he was kicked off of there. :rolleyes:
The self nuking posts was pretty funny in a way. Yes I knew at least one member of the coffee club, never got the full story. I should ask.
It would be really interesting to get all the dope on the CC. The CC seems to be a very important part of the implosion on the internet forums around 96/97. I always had the notion that they were paid provocateurs --- but they apparently turned out to be partisans fighting for tenderloins, freebies, and seat upgrades. Only later on were the guns hired, like that mcquireb guy who was a Toyota mouthpiece at 7G.
fourrunner
02-20-04, 05:18 PM
I saw @ TF where silva said that 7thGear died the day he was kicked off of there. :rolleyes:
Well. the POST COUNT was definitely cut in half when Silva was banned... of course half the total posts at that time WERE Silva's!! One subject repeated thousands of times hundreds of ways.
Nah... Silva's Banning was nary a blip on the screen.... people were long since bored of his act. A hundred other things caused 7G's downhill slide!
Nah... Silva's Banning was nary a blip on the screen.... people were long since bored of his act. A hundred other things caused 7G's downhill slide!
Silva was a human "bot". He was programmed to be contrary and would insanely derationate any point to the ludicrous, keeping a thread running for days. He would have made an interesting case study of some grad school psych major.
Madmaxfan2
02-20-04, 06:16 PM
7Th Gear's decline was gradual but unmistakable. The home page features were often out of date for months, and the rumor section turned lame. I much as I did not like John Kernan's viewpoint, his hands were tied as to what he really thought and the way he caught hell for it really did not speak well for 7TH Gear. Anybody heard what Tara Munger is up to?
Brickman
02-20-04, 06:28 PM
It would be really interesting to get all the dope on the CC. The CC seems to be a very important part of the implosion on the internet forums around 96/97. I always had the notion that they were paid provocateurs --- but they apparently turned out to be partisans fighting for tenderloins, freebies, and seat upgrades. Only later on were the guns hired, like that mcquireb guy who was a Toyota mouthpiece at 7G.
I asked and din't get a lot of responses at TF. But did get an interesting email from it. Only locals who had their vision of what the vision should be and wanted to talk up their side. Mcquireb was a hired gun?
Amanda B.'s Mom
02-21-04, 12:08 AM
Hi everyone,
yes it took me a hwile to get here, but I have been lurking for a while. I remember the RIS forums of old as well as most of the others posted previously. The thing that drew me to the 7th Gear forums was the ease of use and how knowledgable so many of the posters were. There were all sorts of perspectives there.
I agree with others that Moderators can be a good thing as long as they don;t get an "ego".
Kellner could give you the entire lowdown. I know they had a concerted effort to get Hoot fired after he made a donation to an injured driver. I have also heard that MquireB was a plant from Toyota, as well as SeanO.
Ziggy
Brickman
02-21-04, 12:30 AM
Kellner could give you the entire lowdown. I know they had a concerted effort to get Hoot fired after he made a donation to an injured driver. I have also heard that MquireB was a plant from Toyota, as well as SeanO.
Ziggy
No doubt they were focusing too much on John everytime he came around. It was all pretty sad display of race fans in my mind. Maybe if he shared his photo album at Milwaukee with someone who loved tenderloins it would have been different, but I very much doubt it.
I just found this site a few days ago. I as some of you may know, I posted at 7G. My first experience with forums started with Peter Burks site know known as Champcar back around 1996. Peter's site was fairly popular back then and I really enjoyed his photography. In fact my desktop in my office has a photo of Peter's of Al Unser Jr. at Portland in 1995 in a Penske with the car number of "1". I also posted at the Indystar forum for a while until it turned into a mess. Somehow, I found 7G and enjoyed posting there. I didn't post much but lurked most days.
The unexpected demise of 7G surprised me. You would think they would have let everyone know that they were closing shop. I must admit, the Crashnet site didn't impress me. It seem more of a site for F1 and Motorcycle racing fans. The forums have several shortcomings.
I enjoy discussing CART and openwheel racing in general including Formula one and the IRL. I've had the pleasure over the last 16 years to attend many races in each of these series and get great pleaseure in watching them on television as well. I'm glad I found Off Camber!
Mike Kellner
02-21-04, 01:57 AM
"CMD7 and Kellner are some of the best tech guys I have come across."
Thanks Ziggy, but I feel uncomfortable being mentioned in the same sentence with Claude, where technical expertese is the subject. He is a rocket scientist, I read about rocket science in magazines.
There are a lot of very knowledgable people in this group. Ziggy among them. If you ever meet him, you will realize he is a walking encyclopedia of IndyCar racing. He should have Don Davis' (or whateverintheheck IMS' historian is named) job. There are lots of others, I won't name names out of fear of leaving some great ones out. We all know who they are. That was what made SpeedNet and 7G so great. It would be wonderful of we could have a regathering of the gang, here.
mk
Mike Kellner
02-21-04, 02:10 AM
Kellner could give you the entire lowdown. I know they had a concerted effort to get Hoot fired after he made a donation to an injured driver. I have also heard that MquireB was a plant from Toyota, as well as SeanO.
There was a guy who was fully paralized from a qualifying accident at Indy. the Lemi were raising money to help him. Hoot had his business partner write a check, since he never did the money. HWC used the check to trace the people involved, and told everyone that Hoot was pornographer. A fact well known to his friends, but not the Lemi. He owned Hooterhistorians.com, a pay site which specialized in candid shots of real girls nude in public. Wet t-shirt contests, nude babe contests, nude beaches, etc. It has made him rich. The name Hoothist is derrived from that site.
The Lemi had a field day with it, and the CART partisans went nuts as well, pointing out what a low move that was to exploit a charity donation that way. It caused a major meltdown. It was one of several incidents that poisioned the well, and a major reason I didn't get too upset when I was accused of going overboard. (who, me?)
mk
Brickman
02-21-04, 02:12 AM
I can say this much about those who lived in Indy or breathed and read every word of the IndyStar they got in the mail, they were very lucky to be so close that they retain so much. When Juan's new car came out, up popped a thread from the past and it was discussed, two weeks later AutoWeek shows the same photo. Top notch group WB has here, I am 100% out of my league when the topic needs of a ruler, let alone a sliderule.
The driver was Bob Hurt. Dont know about the Autoweak article. Would not line a bird cage with it, after all, Curt Cavein is a contributor. I went and saw them test the cars, and they had reworked the entire sidepod/fluggel horn set up. There was a couple of really inside guys at Ganassi's posting on Speednet
Ziggy
Sean O'Gorman
02-21-04, 03:06 AM
I have also heard that MquireB was a plant from Toyota, as well as SeanO.
:saywhat:
No idea where you got that one, although I almost wish it were the case when I look at the pile of reciepts related to my MR2. ;) No idea about mcguireb though, when I met him at Mid-Ohio a few years back I spoke with him for hours and never saw any bias, but he certainly never came off as a CART fan of any kind during his stay at 7G.
I'll admit when I first came to 7G years ago I was a little over the edge and misinformed when it came to many of the statements I made concerning CART and IRL, but what do you expect, I was just a dumb high schooler!
anybody heard from CMD7 lately? claude was always one of my favorite posters, but he seems to have been AWOL for the past year or so.
Railbird
02-21-04, 10:27 AM
very interesting thread.
I got started on the old TSN/iRace boards but never really got into the subterfuge at Speednet. I signed up at 7thGear fairly early on and was greeted by a couple members wanting me banned because of my fence sitting posture. Nonetheless I made quite a few friends and really enjoyed the place.
After the last few years of not being able to post anything positive about Champ Cars without some loser stepping on it the invitation to join up here at OC was more than welcome.
Great place WB, thanks for letting me hang around.
anybody heard from CMD7 lately? claude was always one of my favorite posters, but he seems to have been AWOL for the past year or so.
I saw a post from him at TF in the Cart forum on the goodbye 7G thread about a week ago. First one I've seen from him in a long time. Wasn't he banned off 7G? I remember a couple of pretty heated threads he was in with Anita and several others here about a year ago at 7G. Haven't seen him post since.
Brickman
02-21-04, 12:03 PM
I saw a post from him at TF in the Cart forum on the goodbye 7G thread about a week ago. First one I've seen from him in a long time. Wasn't he banned off 7G? I remember a couple of pretty heated threads he was in with Anita and several others here about a year ago at 7G. Haven't seen him post since.
I PM'd him this thread.
Anteater
02-21-04, 01:57 PM
Anybody heard what Tara Munger is up to?
Tara was doing PR for RuSport last season; I wouldn't be surprised if she's still working in that capacity for the team.
Winston Wolfe
02-21-04, 03:12 PM
Tara was doing PR for RuSport last season; I wouldn't be surprised if she's still working in that capacity for the team.
Last time I saw Tara was at a Hospitality Tent at an irl race in Fontana. Seems she was a coordinator\liason for the driver\drivers to the hospitality area for the manufacturers. I spoke with her briefly and she was, as she always was, which is friendly, however, it struck me a completely WEIRD that she was doing what she was doing. :saywhat:
(Before you ask, I'll tell ya, that I was there for a WORK related function, and did not put a single personal dollar into the hands of the inheritor, or his pockets).
I was just there for the free food, which was great, and the free bottles of champagne and wine that were left over, due to the fact that NO ONE showed up on race day for the hospitality event. Even the corporate free-loaders realize what contrived racing is\was, even with all of the big name drivers and teams.
Brickman
02-21-04, 04:19 PM
Last time I saw Tara was at a Hospitality Tent at an irl race in Fontana. Seems she was a coordinator\liason for the driver\drivers to the hospitality area for the manufacturers. I spoke with her briefly and she was, as she always was, which is friendly, however, it struck me a completely WEIRD that she was doing what she was doing. :saywhat:
(Before you ask, I'll tell ya, that I was there for a WORK related function, and did not put a single personal dollar into the hands of the inheritor, or his pockets).
I was just there for the free food, which was great, and the free bottles of champagne and wine that were left over, due to the fact that NO ONE showed up on race day for the hospitality event. Even the corporate free-loaders realize what contrived racing is\was, even with all of the big name drivers and teams.
No one showed up? All that free food going to waste. That's a shame.
Mike Kellner
02-21-04, 04:34 PM
I can believe it; an IRL event would make a fly lose it's appetite.
They should have forced people to pick up their NASCAR tickets at the hospitality tent. That usually works.
mk
My first posting experience was on 7G back in early 2000. I kept hearing about what a cesspool Speednet was, so out of shear morbid curiosity, I went over to check things out. I started posting occassionally as "Cameron" (Ferris Bueller's depressed friend). It was indeed quite a bit of fun getting the locals' shorts all in a wad with Napoleon, DaveL, and Mike, etc... The arguments could be, at times, quite witty. I remember one time BiF started a thread called "HEy HoOTer, I thInk I FOUnd yur Pictur." He posted a link to a pic of some hairy guy on a motorcycle with a large, inflated, umm, weiner on his lap. I replied, "Who's the guy on the bike sitting behind Hooter?" That was about as witty as I can ever hope to be. There were others that were better.
I kept posting at 7G, though not quite as much, even after a lot of others had left, primarily because Anita and I had become very good friends, and still are. When I got the email (from Warlock, I think, or was it Napoleon?) that WB was starting OC, I signed up as soon as I could. I probably post way too much and people might think I'm trying to high-jack the forum, like what happened with a certain poster at 7G,,,,,,, but that's not the case. I think this is a great forum. I'm sure WB has to deal with "concerned CART fans" trying to pollute the place, but you'd never notice it. It's like having a housekeeper who makes the bed and takes out the tarsh and just makes the place feel homey.:thumbup:
Pretty funny Mike, Im sure they will take it under advisament. Wont comment on Tara, for lack of anything good to say.
Ziggy
Brickman
02-21-04, 05:19 PM
I can believe it; an IRL event would make a fly lose it's appetite.
They should have forced people to pick up their NASCAR tickets at the hospitality tent. That usually works.
mk
Naaah
At least they don't need open wheel tickets at Fontana to get Cup seats now. CART going poof and the 2nd Cup race guaranteed that.
There was a guy who was fully paralized from a qualifying accident at Indy. the Lemi were raising money to help him. Hoot had his business partner write a check, since he never did the money. HWC used the check to trace the people involved, and told everyone that Hoot was pornographer. mk
Actually it wasn't HWC. It was BigFig (Gary Crossno) that tracked down the check written by Hoot's partner. And it wasn't a porn site accusation, it was a drug arrest. So there were those high and mighty pompous a-holes accusing Hoot of being a drug abuser ignoring the fact that the information was erroneously based on a charitable contribution that should have otherwise remained anonymous. Nearly all of the lemming brownshirts lined up behind BigFig in their condemnation of Hoot. Once BigFig mentioned the name on the check I knew he was wrong and I made sure everyone knew it. I had met Hoot a few years before (at Milwaukee along w/ Mike Kellner and David Levin) and have seen him several times since. He now lives in Las Vegas and I had dinner with him last fall when I was there. There is someting quite familiar about lemmings wanting to buy into the 'truth' no matter how erroneous it is.
HRO - I agree about your comments on "RaceGuy" He was hilarious. I don't know if he's still around, I would hope so. His one or two line shots were the best, by far.
BTW - the paralyzed racer's name is Bob Hurt. Paralyzed while practicing at Indy in May in the 60's. Died a few years ago, penniless. Sad story.
Mike Kellner
02-21-04, 05:53 PM
I guess my memory is faulty. When and who outed Hoot as a pornographer? I remember that happening as well. It seems the past is fading into one large, jumbled Lemming atrocity story. Heck, I can't even remember which one of those turkeys called me The Butt Plug of Arrogance.
mk
Oddly enough, BigFig rarely posts at TF anymore and when he does, he doesn't have anything good to say about the earl anymore. Funny how things come around eventually. :gomer:
Brickman
02-21-04, 06:39 PM
Oddly enough, BigFig rarely posts at TF anymore and when he does, he doesn't have anything good to say about the earl anymore. Funny how things come around eventually. :gomer:
A little Visine helped clarify the vision.
Peter Venkman
02-21-04, 08:26 PM
anybody heard from CMD7 lately? claude was always one of my favorite posters, but he seems to have been AWOL for the past year or so.
Not AWOL, just having my time taken up with other things.
My best friend and wife Mary, was diagnosed with a very bad disease; Lou Gehrig’s Disease, and I've had to learn to do all of the things she used to do and my own work too.
We'll manage, but it does take some of the steam out of me these daze.
As for the kind words of Mike Kellner and Ziggy, I more often than not, have to sit at the feet of both of those very knowledgeable gentlemen and…listen and learn.
My feelings for ChampCars and the 'answer to a non existent question', the IRL, are exactly the same, except that now I include Penske along with King George, as one who I wouldn’t watch a race that had anything to do with him …and my daughter works for Penske.
Claude Miller
Cmd7
Dr. Peter Venkman
Brickman
02-21-04, 09:21 PM
So sorry to hear, she's lucky to have a best friend to care for her, the meaning is clear. It's a tough road you're on, prayers to you, your wife and family.
fourrunner
02-21-04, 09:28 PM
Brickman said it well... Good Luck to you!! :thumbup:
Sorry to hear Claude, and yes, she is lucky to have you close. :thumbup:
Amanda B.'s Mom
02-21-04, 11:55 PM
Not AWOL, just having my time taken up with other things.
My best friend and wife Mary, was diagnosed with a very bad disease; Lou Gehrig’s Disease, and I've had to learn to do all of the things she used to do and my own work too.
We'll manage, but it does take some of the steam out of me these daze.
Claude Miller
Cmd7
Dr. Peter Venkman
I can definately feel for you. Last year my mom lost her life to ALS. She was only diagniosed two months before she passed away. If I can help in any wayn please let me know. ALS is a very serious disease, that is not well understood.
I wish you the best.
We'll manage, but it does take some of the steam out of me these daze.
sorry to hear about that latest challenge you're facing, claude, but as others have said your dear mary is most fortunate to have you beside her in her time of need. you may not recognize this nickname of mine, or even my other handles if I mentioned them, because there've been a few over the years but suffice to say I regard you as a guru of sorts on these forums, and it's great to see you still posting. all the best to you and yours, and speaking of which, how's your boy - is he still teaching at the driving school in arizona?
Well said brick and so sorry to hear Claude. Good luck on the road ahead and my prayers are with you.
Railbird
02-22-04, 08:24 AM
thoughts and prayers Claude
RaceChic
02-22-04, 11:13 AM
Not AWOL, just having my time taken up with other things.
My best friend and wife Mary, was diagnosed with a very bad disease; Lou Gehrig’s Disease, and I've had to learn to do all of the things she used to do and my own work too.
We'll manage, but it does take some of the steam out of me these daze.
Claude Miller
Cmd7
Dr. Peter Venkman
That is a tough disease to deal with. My thoughts and prayers for you and Mary. :)
Peter Venkman
02-22-04, 05:00 PM
"how's your boy - is he still teaching at the driving school in arizona?"
Yes he is, and that's one of the reasons that we are considering moving to Phoenix, so that Mary can be with her kids. My daughter also lives there; she works for Scottsdale Lexus, one of Benedick R. Penske's dealerships.
Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.
I'm not "the prayin' kind", and every prayer and thought that you guys give is appreciated.
RedLine
02-22-04, 09:49 PM
Very sorry to hear of the valley through which you're travelling, Claude.
I'll definitely pray for your partner, you, and your family.
Please keep us posted.
RL
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife Peter.
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