Pit stop rules

[JLMannin]

I can't remember if it was here or on another forum, but a couple of weeks ago, there was a thread about the metits and demerits of mandatory pit stop windows and such.

Mandatory pit stop windows is not what I really want to discuss now, however. In that thread, there was a proposal make to improve the "fairness" of the mandatory pit stop window by putting a restriction on pitting during the first 10% of the race distance. The purpose of this would be to neutralize the potential advantage gained by a backmarker (Andretti was singles out as an example in the discussion) by pitting frequently, staying on the lead lap, and waiting for a full course caution and utilizing the lenghtened pit stop window to gain track position not otherwise gainable. This strategy is most useful on a tight temp circiut where there is commonly lots of yellow.

I, for one, do not think that this kind of stragety should be legislated out of existance. I think this adds to the development of the race, and can make a somewhat boring race more interesting to watch, to see who can gain advantage due to unconventional pit stop strategy. I agree that this type of racing did halp Andretti gain more point than if he had pitted with the leaders, but I still think a team at the rear of the grid should be able to do whatever is possible to enhance their track position, and make the the drivers and teams at the pointed end of the grid earn their victories. I really like it when a hot shoe like Tracy of daMatta plain outruns the competition and doed not play the mileage game.

As far as the mandatory pit stop windows - they did result in their desired outcome - that is, neutralize the fuel economy run.

John

[RaceGrrl]

There were a couple of threads covering pit windows. I don't know if this is what you were referring to:

Pook Interview... (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)

And then this one followed: One HUGE pit window (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162)

[JLMannin]

Originally posted by RaceGrrl
There were a couple of threads covering pit windows. I don't know if this is what you were referring to:

Pook Interview... (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)

And then this one followed: One HUGE pit window (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162)

It must have been another site. Anyhow, I'm ready to abandon other boards and concentrate here. There are actually enlightening technical discussions.

The best idea I have heard yet regarding pit stop issues is to ban pit stops during yellow flags and mandate green flag pit stops, while retaining mandatory pit windows. This is the best compromise, IMO

John

[Turn7]

If they want to experiment with pit stops I really would like to see the pit crew become more involved with the outcome of the stop.

I would like to see the refueling take place prior to anyone being allowed over the wall to change tires. This would reduce the amount of personnel over the wall during a refuel and accent the crews ability to change tires and make wing adjustments. Currently, they have plenty of time to accomplish all of the needed tasks while the fuel is flowing making all of the stops basically the same. If you separate the two tasks where they have to be done independently, I think this would showcase the pit crews hard work and efforts.

[JLMannin]

Originally posted by Turn7
If they want to experiment with pit stops I really would like to see the pit crew become more involved with the outcome of the stop.

I would like to see the refueling take place prior to anyone being allowed over the wall to change tires. This would reduce the amount of personnel over the wall during a refuel and accent the crews ability to change tires and make wing adjustments. Currently, they have plenty of time to accomplish all of the needed tasks while the fuel is flowing making all of the stops basically the same. If you separate the two tasks where they have to be done independently, I think this would showcase the pit crews hard work and efforts.

I think this is how pit stops are done in the ALMS. Save for a mechanical failure of the clutch, this would eliminate tearing the hose off the fuel tank.

[Turn7]

Well, if you go one step further and add that the fuel nozzle can't be connected until the car has been raised off the ground and that it cant be dropped until the fueling personnel are back across the wall, then the fuel spill probability would really go down. Theoretically they would not have to wait for the fueling personnel because it will remain in the air for the tire change that will follow.

This will cause splash and goes to be a little more timely but, they will also be much more safer and it would make fuel planning that much more relivant.

[RARules]

Please excuse my ignorance, but even though I've seen the comment before, I've never quite understood the logistics needed to make "no pitting under yellow" work OK. What do you do when someone needs fuel in the next 2 laps and the yellow comes out? Let them fuel enough for only a few laps? Allow a full pit under yellow if the team had already declared that they would pit on a specific lap that fell under yellow? Or just say "Tough. Pit earlier to avoid the problem."

Granted you're not using a lot of fuel during a yellow, but if it's an extended yellow, that could be tough.

Might this not exascerbate the fuel economy runs?

[nrc]

Originally posted by RARules
Please excuse my ignorance, but even though I've seen the comment before, I've never quite understood the logistics needed to make "no pitting under yellow" work OK. What do you do when someone needs fuel in the next 2 laps and the yellow comes out?

If teams are aware of it, they can allow for it. For instance, always allow margin in the stop strategy for five or six laps under yellow. In the event someone does get caught needing to stop, a drive through penalty would be just about right to remove any advantage they may have gained.

[ChrisB]

Does anyone have the link on the CART.com site of the rulebook outline of this pit rule?

(they have a bunch of pdf's of various sections of the rulebook scattered around the site)

[Lizzerd]

Perhaps "no pitting under yellow" should read "pit under yellow if you want, but it doesn't meet your commitment to pit under green".

[rabbit]

Originally posted by Lizzerd
Perhaps "no pitting under yellow" should read "pit under yellow if you want, but it doesn't meet your commitment to pit under green".
Good idea.:thumbup:

[JoeBob]

Here's the 2002 rulebook: http://www.cart.com/About/RuleBook2002.pdf

[mnkywrch]

I'm not sure if I like "pit under yellow, drive-through under green". The thought of 10 cars trundling through pit lane... there's an awful lot of people on pit road, so do we really want the cars in the pits more times than needed?

As far as getting rid of fuel economy runs, I say there are two ways of doing it:

1) Get rid of the many fuel mapping settings in the car. Make them do fuel economy runs the old-fashioned way - with their right foot.

2) Eliminate pit stops for fuel and tires. This will also showcase the teams best able to compromise on setup, as the car will handle much differently on a full load than it will at the end of the race. Of course, this requires Firestone to supply a much harder compound... and I'm not sure how to prevent a team claiming a "puncture" that results in a driver getting four new tires. Maybe they can only change one tire on any given pit stop?

[Ankf00]

less yellows more cranes and quicker removal of cars?