View Full Version : Martha Stewart found guilty.
I really thought this was a waste of resources to prosecute.
I thought I heard on a news report the other day that she won't be able to head a publicly traded company again. Is that true?
TrueBrit
03-05-04, 04:14 PM
I really thought this was a waste of resources to prosecute.
I thought I heard on a news report the other day that she won't be able to head a publicly traded company again. Is that true?
If the conviction stands then yes that would be correct.
What an amazing waste of taxpayers money....Jeez I bet she wishes she'd given money to the gop like Ken Lay...... :shakehead
oddlycalm
03-05-04, 04:21 PM
Guilty or innocent, what's really ironic is that all of this dust was raised over the remaining 4000 shares from what has been a large position. She had previously sold the bulk of her position in the stock. As they say, bummer dewd.
oc
RacinM3
03-05-04, 04:35 PM
The Gov. blew this one. What happens to the employees who worked for her company if it tanks? What about the shareholders?
There had to be another way to punish her.
What's weak is her trade only resulted in avoiding a $51,000 loss.
Sure she's responsible, but I wish there was a way to look at the fallout of this deal, and realize a lot more people than just her might now be punished.
they should've fined her the difference in the amounts she would've lost had she sold her stock after its share prices fell...
anyway, the more upsetting thing is that Enron and WorldCom are still not settled...but they got Martha!
they should've fined her the difference in the amounts she would've lost had she sold her stock after its share prices fell...
anyway, the more upsetting thing is that Enron and WorldCom are still not settled...but they got Martha!
Apples and oranges comparison. Enron and WCOM involve very complex financial dealings rather than an individual or individuals trading stock. Indictments have been made in those cases, but it will take years to bring them all to justice.
For those of you with short memories, deals were offered for Martha to come clean and save some face, but she refused. The general public demanded blood a few years ago, after the losses experienced by the likes of Enron, WCOM, and the dot com bubble bursting. Message sent: no one (not ecven the happy homemaker) is above the law in cases like this. The SEC/Feds got it right.
-Kevin
I really thought this was a waste of resources to prosecute.
I thought I heard on a news report the other day that she won't be able to head a publicly traded company again. Is that true?
The federal government isn't Alabama, they're not so short on $ that they need to put all jury trials on hold for an entire year in order to cut back.
eiregosod
03-05-04, 08:45 PM
what better than to send a chef cordon-bleu into the slammer, so that those future corporate convicts can still experience the cuisine they're so accostomed to!
Doors open boys!
Jag_Warrior
03-05-04, 09:25 PM
what better than to send a chef cordon-bleu into the slammer, so that those future corporate convicts can still experience the cuisine they're so accostomed to!
Oh, I'm sure Large Marge and Big Sally will take good care of Martha's "cuisine". :laugh:
Apples and oranges comparison. Enron and WCOM involve very complex financial dealings rather than an individual or individuals trading stock. Indictments have been made in those cases, but it will take years to bring them all to justice.
...fair enough, but I still think more could've been done for the Enron and WorldCom cases. More people have vested interests in that.
""Jeez I bet she wishes she'd given money to the gop like Ken Lay""
Or BJ the dnc like Mark Richs ol lady......... :gomer:
...fair enough, but I still think more could've been done for the Enron and WorldCom cases. More people have vested interests in that.
the two Tyco execs who cost the corp $600M are being prosecuted on a plethora of charges currently
the enron case is slowly forming, Andrew and Lea Fastow recently completed their plea deal to bring down Skilling and Lay, and Andrew Fastow has something like a 10 year sentence coming up.
The cases are being handled, just slowly.
pinniped
03-06-04, 12:47 AM
This just seems like it should be more of a civil wrong than a criminal one...so no insider trading charge, but charges of obstruction of justice due to investigating an insider trading case which doesn't exist...too ethereal for me...
TrueBrit
03-06-04, 04:07 AM
""Jeez I bet she wishes she'd given money to the gop like Ken Lay""
Or BJ the dnc like Mark Richs ol lady......... :gomer:
:shakehead
oddlycalm
03-06-04, 05:52 AM
This just seems like it should be more of a civil wrong than a criminal one...so no insider trading charge, but charges of obstruction of justice due to investigating an insider trading case which doesn't exist...too ethereal for me...
Ethereal indeed, great description.
The lesson I took away from this is that if the Feds question you, guilty or inocccent, absolutely refuse to talk to them. If it was NY state charges, the cops and prosecutors would have been required to tape any interviews, but the Feds get to ad lib from their notes? Sorry, not interested. No hard record of what I say, no interview.
One further thought occurred to me. What the hell was her attorney thinking by not letting her testify when he saw how bad it was going. It's not like there was anything much to lose at that point. She communicates for a living, and I would have thought it would have been worth a roll of the dice as bad as things were going.
oc
TrueBrit
03-06-04, 01:20 PM
As someone who actually works in the industry, specifically on the compliance and regulatory side of the business, a little background is needed. The two regulatory bodies in the industry, the SEC and the NASD are severely underfunded and understaffed. The SEC is a political pawn that relies on the government for it's funding and the head of the SEC is a political appointee. The most recent "scandals" that have appeared in the industry have been due to a "three monkeys" approach by the regulatory bodies. The ONLY reason that the investing public has heard ANYTHING about mutual fund trading irregularities, and mutual fund breakpoint violations is because NY AG Elliot Spitzer has taken up the reins that SHOULD have been held by the NASD and the SEC. Hence the current pissing match between the two bodies and Mr Spitzer. Mr Bush's most recent appointee to head the SEC Harvey Pitt was a lobbyist for the accounting industry immediately prior to his appointment. He had aggressively pursued further de-regulation of the industry that had famously given us the Arthur Andersen scandal. Not exactly the guy to head any ground-breaking investigations likely to work in the favour of the small investor or to curtail any questionable trading practices.
The vast majority of those that work for the SEC and the NASD are bean-counters and few have any real experience in the industry on the retail side so it is very easy for those that break the rules to cover their tracks with relative ease. In order to give the appearance that the regulatory bodies are actually doing their jobs there has to be a sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves once in a while. Martha Stewart's relatively small trade, and the subsequent flipping of her broker about whether or not she was trading on inside information is exactly that. A big show trial designed to show the unwashed masses that no-one is above the law, the bigger the 'name' the better, is JUST what the SEC needed. Will this trial result in a mass epiphany for rogue brokers? Will it stop any insider trading? Will it bring massive sweeping change to the way business is conducted? Not Likely. Anyone that thinks that insider trading will now magically disappear is hallucinating.
Until such time as the SEC and the NASD get some teeth, and staff themselves with people that know what to look for this sort of thing will continue unabated.
The thought that a certain political party is eagerly pursuing a policy allowing John Q Public to "invest" a portion of their Social Security account in the stock market is chilling. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is anything remotely resembling a level-playing field.
TB
Jag_Warrior
03-06-04, 01:38 PM
You are kidding yourself if you think that it is anything remotely resembling a level-playing field.
TB
Here's a time when you and I agree on something (besides M. Shoemaker being a pointy-chinned, obnoxious, cheating bast@rd, I mean ;) ). There are special rules for the bigger players... always have been... always will be. I don't feel sorry for her, but I agree that her public spanking is just for show. Most wrong doing seems to be dealt with by paying a (relatively) small fine and the boilerplate "neither admitting nor denying wrong doing".
But I don't see the SEC being much different from most government agencies: corruption and favoritism is the flavor of the day. There is little desire or demand by the public for real reforms, so it will not change. When the thieves see the spotlight coming toward them, they'll sacrifice one or two high profile players and say "see, we're addressing the probelm!" Then they change their methods and keep doing what they've been doing for centuries. But the reality is the money churn is so great that no one will EVER take the game down. Spitzer (much like Rudy) will make some political hay, but nothing will change longer term (IMO).
pinniped
03-06-04, 06:17 PM
Holy crap I am agreeing with truebrit again! :eek:
oddlycalm
03-06-04, 06:28 PM
Until such time as the SEC and the NASD get some teeth, and staff themselves with people that know what to look for this sort of thing will continue unabated.
Yes indeed, and the roar in the distance is most definitely not the pigs warming up on at the end of the runway, but rather this years F1 grid... ;)
oc
EDwardo
03-06-04, 07:13 PM
Tsk, tsk, tsk. The arrogance of the rich. Martha will have the lads baking cookies and building bird feeders out of shivs before you know it. She doesn't get any sympathy from me just because the other rats haven't been brought to justice.
Oh, the irony, also. Wasn't the drug in question just recently approved, albeit for another use?
Tsk, tsk, tsk. The arrogance of the rich. Martha will have the lads baking cookies and building bird feeders out of shivs before you know it. She doesn't get any sympathy from me just because the other rats haven't been brought to justice.
Oh, the irony, also. Wasn't the drug in question just recently approved, albeit for another use?
Yup. Oh the irony.
linky (http://www.detnews.com/2004/business/0402/15/business-63809.htm)
-Kevin
the two Tyco execs who cost the corp $600M are being prosecuted on a plethora of charges currently
the enron case is slowly forming, Andrew and Lea Fastow recently completed their plea deal to bring down Skilling and Lay, and Andrew Fastow has something like a 10 year sentence coming up.
The cases are being handled, just slowly.
And an indictment was handed down on Ebbers last week. Unfortunately none of this will result in anything but a moral victory for the former shareholders or employees of these companies. :(
-Kevin
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