View Full Version : Bert's penalty...
Suspended by the NHL for the rest of the season and playoffs, and must re-apply for reinstatement next season. Plus a $250K fine for the Canucks. Spot on! The NHL definitely got it right.
-Kevin
Don Quixote
03-11-04, 12:50 PM
Suspended by the NHL for the rest of the season and playoffs, and must re-apply for reinstatement next season. Plus a $250K fine for the Canucks. Spot on! The NHL definitely got it right.
-Kevin
I disagree, this sentence is too soft. It should have been one year or a permanent suspension. The intend of Bertuzzi's actions were clearly to injure, maim or worse. This is another example of why the NHL will crumble to the ground under Gary Bettman's lack of leadership.
rosawendel
03-11-04, 12:56 PM
as i understand it, the suspension is subject to review / extension before next season starts, so, it could be longer...
Sounds like a harsh penalty, what did he do?
No hockey news is given on our local tv sports reports and I don't subscribe to the paper because of political views.
Don Quixote
03-11-04, 01:06 PM
From yesterday's Edmonton Sun:
http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/haskins.html
They are as upset in Vancouver as they are in Denver.
devilmaster
03-11-04, 01:35 PM
Sounds like a harsh penalty, what did he do?
No hockey news is given on our local tv sports reports and I don't subscribe to the paper because of political views.
Bertuzzi, in a fight filled, big time loss at home, grabbed the back of Moore's sweater, and swung a roundhouse right to the head of Moore.
Check out a video that explains it in detail. Its the first "related video" clip on the right hand side of the page. Todd Battis' video.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1078841121162_94/?hub=CTVNewsAt11#
Steve
oddlycalm
03-11-04, 01:43 PM
The NHL and team penalties are just the tip of the iceberg. He's almost certainly going to face criminal assault charges which, given the video, will be a slam dunk. I'd be stunned if there wasn't a civil suit involved at some point. I'm guessing the next couple years of his life are pretty bleak. And that's if he still has a career to come back to.
NHL hockey has been getting farther and farther off the rails for years now, and something like this was overdue to happen. Expect the provincial authorities to land on this guy like a ton of bricks and make an object lesson out of him. As of now, I'd guess his chances of doing jail time are better than 75%. His team and coach should be hoping very hard that the criminal investigation doesn't reveal that this was a planned action by the team, or it's going to get even uglier.
oc
I disagree, this sentence is too soft. It should have been one year or a permanent suspension. The intend of Bertuzzi's actions were clearly to injure, maim or worse. This is another example of why the NHL will crumble to the ground under Gary Bettman's lack of leadership.
The suspension is open-ended, and will almost certainly be tied to Moore's condition in the future. Most of the talking heads were calling for a suspension through the first round or two of the playoffs. This clearly sends a strong message, as playoff games are far more important the regular season games. I also would bet money that it lasts longer into next season (assuming there is one).
I also disagree on Bert's intent. Had he swung his stick (ala McSorley), the potential to do harm was greater. What he did was heinous, but I don't believe Bert expected the outcome to be what it was.
-Kevin
it was a dirty, filthy hit, so he deserves everything he's getting, and more actually... not a future "review" but an outright suspension.
but in fairness, Bert's never really been dirty, physical but not that cheap, so it's really surprising to see this.
he still deserves everything he's getting, too bad wankers like havlat don't get worse than 2 games
CART T. Katz
03-11-04, 02:31 PM
in my biased opinion (avalanche fan) he should get 41 games....
after moore comes back. and not a game earlier. that was a blatant act of cowardice. moore was doing what he was told. tony granato told the entire team after the second fight NO MORE. the vancouver canucks still kept coming at them though. i used to think of the canucks as respectible. now i see them just like i see toyota: a dishonorable organization.
:flame:
ps. karma is still a bitch todd.
Don Quixote
03-11-04, 02:47 PM
I also disagree on Bert's intent. Had he swung his stick (ala McSorley), the potential to do harm was greater. What he did was heinous, but I don't believe Bert expected the outcome to be what it was.
-Kevin
He punched him in the side of the head from behind, then grabbed his head and with the full force of his 6'3' 245 pound frame drove Moore's face and head into the ice. How could that not result in a serious, life threatening injury? :mad:
NHL hockey has been getting farther and farther off the rails for years now, and something like this was overdue to happen.
Huh? How so? Quite frankly, the NHL was far more violent 10+ years ago than it is today. Does the game have issues? Certainly, but the violence has been reined in 100 fold from where it was in the 70s.
Anyway, here's a good piece (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=melrose_barry&id=1756696) from Barry Melrose on the penalty and the impact of this on the game. I certainly concur on the bashing the game take. Here's another take (http://tsn.ca/columnists/dave_hodge.asp) on the punishment from the guys @ TSN.
-Kevin
Dr. Corkski
03-11-04, 03:29 PM
Dando's assesment is pretty much spot on. Unlike McSorley, who was out to do some major damage to Huggy Bear's head, Bertuzzi's intent was more so to send Moore a message that Naslund was no to be messed with than it was to fracture some vertebraes, except Bertuzzi was too much of an idiot and let his emotions get the better of him. No way Bertuzzi could have known that Moore was unconscious when he pushed him down, which was actually when most of the damage was done, there was no way he could have predicted that Moore's head was going to hit the ice first, and he probably was just trying to get some free shots in there before someone pulled him off more than anything else. It ended up being worse because of Bertuzzi's poor execution, not because the intent to injure was anywhere as bad as McSorley's. He definitely deserves every game that got suspended for, but then again, considering that Turtle Man got only 2 games for the Draper hit and Granato didn't even get as many games for trying to decapitate Neil Wilkinson, I don't know why people only want big suspensions to start now only because it affects their team.
Dr. Corkski
03-11-04, 03:32 PM
Huh? How so? Quite frankly, the NHL was far more violent 10+ years ago than it is today. Does the game have issues? Certainly, but the violence has been reined in 100 fold from where it was in the 70s.
Anyway, here's a good piece (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=melrose_barry&id=1756696) from Barry Melrose on the penalty and the impact of this on the game. I certainly concur on the bashing the game take. Here's another take (http://tsn.ca/columnists/dave_hodge.asp) on the punishment from the guys @ TSN.
-KevinProbably the most intelligent thing to come out of Melrose in years. He's supposed to be an Avs media homer, and even he isn't whining about the penalty.
He punched him in the side of the head from behind, then grabbed his head and with the full force of his 6'3' 245 pound frame drove Moore's face and head into the ice. How could that not result in a serious, life threatening injury? :mad:
dude, what I'm saying that I don't believe it was his intent to drive him down like that. He hit him from behind with a gloved hand. The punch knocked Moore out and they both went down, with Bert falling on top of him. Based on Bert's reaction last night, and comments from his teammates, I don't think he intended to hurt him as bad as he did. Period. It's quite obvious that Bert feels very bad for what happened, and he's paying a price for his actions...perhaps more to come. I'm not defending what he did by any mean, but I've seen Bert play enough to know he's not a Tie Domi type.
-Kevin
Don Quixote
03-11-04, 03:54 PM
No way guys. Intent is always a hard thing to determine. But if there ever was a case where intent can be judged by actions, this is the case. First, there was a stated bounty on Moore's head. Bertuzzi made it clear after the first rematch that other opportunities would present themselves and that he was going to get Moore. Then he stalked him on the ice. The premeditation is unarguable. Then he did the cowardly act. And the last time I checked, when you take someone by the head and with full force drive it into the ice, a serious injury will occur. Bertuzzi is scum. His apology was well written and well rehearsed, but I'm not buying it. Actions speak louder than words, and I choose to judge by his actions. If you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you can't come back later and say "I didn't mean to hurt him".
No way guys. Intent is always a hard thing to determine. But if there ever was a case where intent can be judged by actions, this is the case. First, there was a stated bounty on Moore's head. Bertuzzi made it clear after the first rematch that other opportunities would present themselves and that he was going to get Moore. Then he stalked him on the ice. The premeditation is unarguable. Then he did the cowardly act. And the last time I checked, when you take someone by the head and with full force drive it into the ice, a serious injury will occur. Bertuzzi is scum. His apology was well written and well rehearsed, but I'm not buying it. Actions speak louder than words, and I choose to judge by his actions. If you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you can't come back later and say "I didn't mean to hurt him".
last i checked, bertuzzi didnt drive him down in a wrestling move, he hit him and then fell on him, quit over embellishing. and if you want to judge by actions, there's a plethora of jokes that have occured over the past decade which you should be more incensed over, this shouldn't be the one act to make that lightbulb go off "violence is bad" :rolleyes:
bert got what he deserved from the league but he wasn't out to put a man in the hospital and I've seen many worse sucker punches and high sticks than what happened to moore resulting in no serious injuries
hey, remember this pathetic cheap shot by a defending conn smythe winner?
http://www.divealanche.com/
check out the vid too, that one's nice
Brickman
03-11-04, 04:10 PM
The NHL should prepare a video of different penalties, require all the teams to show up at a big indoor arena, and play the infractions, and explain the new HARSH suspensions.... kick them out for weeks, months, years, hurt the players in their wallets and get the game back on track.
The same can be said for any sport where violence, unsporstmanship ruins the game.
Dr. Corkski
03-11-04, 04:11 PM
No way guys. Intent is always a hard thing to determine. But if there ever was a case where intent can be judged by actions, this is the case. First, there was a stated bounty on Moore's head. Bertuzzi made it clear after the first rematch that other opportunities would present themselves and that he was going to get Moore. Then he stalked him on the ice. The premeditation is unarguable. Then he did the cowardly act. And the last time I checked, when you take someone by the head and with full force drive it into the ice, a serious injury will occur. Bertuzzi is scum. His apology was well written and well rehearsed, but I'm not buying it. Actions speak louder than words, and I choose to judge by his actions. If you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you can't come back later and say "I didn't mean to hurt him".First, you tell me that intent is hard to determine, but then you go and tell me your interpretation of his intent, based on bias and non-facts, is the only correct one.
Second, Bertuzzi never outright said he was going to get Moore. It was Brad May that said it, who later retracted it. Peter Worrell said he was going to get Marcus Naslund, but he was too retarded to even get the name right so no one cared.
Third, Havlat's "intent" and "actions" was also trying to hurt someone, why don't I see you whining about it 24-7?
Don Quixote
03-11-04, 04:17 PM
hey, remember this pathetic cheap shot by a defending conn smythe winner?
http://www.divealanche.com/
check out the vid too, that one's nice
Don't expect me to come to the defense of Claude. Don't like him and never did. He was not a popular guy in Denver. The fact that he boarded Draper (another fine example of a cowardly hit) does not justify Bertuzzi. Please.
The NHL should prepare a video of different penalties, require all the teams to show up at a big indoor arena, and play the infractions, and explain the new HARSH suspensions.... kick them out for weeks, months, years, hurt the players in their wallets and get the game back on track.
The same can be said for any sport where violence, unsporstmanship ruins the game.
I much prefer college hockey or the international game (no fighting). The NHL has allowed a great sport to stagnate by allowing fighting to remain "a part of the game". Until the frontier mentality of the powers that be outlaw fighting, the sport will continue as an afterthought. By outlawing fighting there would be little need for enforcers, shifting the focus of the game to more skilled players. I would think games would end up having more flow, more open ice and probably more scoring.
Brickman
03-11-04, 11:47 PM
I much prefer college hockey or the international game (no fighting). The NHL has allowed a great sport to stagnate by allowing fighting to remain "a part of the game". Until the frontier mentality of the powers that be outlaw fighting, the sport will continue as an afterthought. By outlawing fighting there would be little need for enforcers, shifting the focus of the game to more skilled players. I would think games would end up having more flow, more open ice and probably more scoring.
I agree. With the new movie it would be a great time to clean house and grow the sport.
Don't expect me to come to the defense of Claude. Don't like him and never did. He was not a popular guy in Denver. The fact that he boarded Draper (another fine example of a cowardly hit) does not justify Bertuzzi. Please.
Ooops. I should have checked your location before trying to argue objectively. My bad. Being from Columbus, I have nothing invested into this situation.
BTW, I spent the evening tonight watching the CBJs/Red Wings with a former Blue Jacket. He felt the punishment fit the infraction, and that this incident was not nearly as bad as the McSorley/Brashear incident.
-Kevin
The NHL should prepare a video of different penalties, require all the teams to show up at a big indoor arena, and play the infractions, and explain the new HARSH suspensions.... kick them out for weeks, months, years, hurt the players in their wallets and get the game back on track.
The same can be said for any sport where violence, unsporstmanship ruins the game.
Well, they did this with the crackdowns in the past (crease violations, obstruction/interference, etc.), but it did little good due to differences in how various refs call games. I can also imagine a scenario where a union chiefs like Goodenow or Fehr raising objections about how players' civil rights are being infringed.... :shakehead
-Kevin
CART T. Katz
03-12-04, 12:59 AM
not to defend claude years later but i have seen a lot of people comparing this to the bertuzzi incident. i will be honest and say that that series turned me on to the nhl and the avs but i vaguely remember the series and the situations reguarding the hit. i have been told that draper had the puck before lemiux gave draper's face an improvement (anti wing dig, i mean no ill will to kris). so that to me means LEGAL HOCKEY PLAY. granted that it went to an extreme, but looking at it in that way, the suspension lengths are apples and oranges. lemiux got nailed for an overly aggresive LEGAL check and 2 games seems reasonable. bertuzzi got nailed for an overly aggressive illegal punch (the puck was nowhere near steve) and 12 + playoffs + reinstatement reapplication seems to me to be a fair sentance.
something else i believe no one has mentioned but after the second fight, tony granato told his team NO MORE. the canucks kept going at steve, so the hit on the organization i believe was justified.
and just so you know, i have no idea how these decisions are made, but i am assuming that one of the factors involved is game situation so take the above for what it is worth.
Don't expect me to come to the defense of Claude. Don't like him and never did. He was not a popular guy in Denver. The fact that he boarded Draper (another fine example of a cowardly hit) does not justify Bertuzzi. Please.
no it doesnt, but how are you so up in arms over bertuzzi w/o referencing the general state of affairs in the NHL or other incidents? or how about that vid with what forsberg did?
I notice you STILL haven't stated an opinion about Wanker Havlat or any other incident from the past 10 years
bottom line is the avs pull that crap ALL THE TIME, 96 wings avs ring a bell?
your team has been consistently one of the most out of control in the NHL and you're determining bert's intent and justified punishment? right.
I'm no big hockey fan but I like it and I liked Bertuzzi. He's a tough guy in the middle and fun to watch.
But this was a chicken ***** gloves on blow to the back of the head. The intent was there even before the tackle driving his head into the ground.
You or I would be in jail already.
There was no excuse for that. No way. No how no what.
He needs a little time to think about it. Out for the season is not enough.
Oh yeah - the NHL fining the team for what Bertuzzi did was wrong. It's not the teams fault. It's one guy's.
Oh yeah - the NHL fining the team for what Bertuzzi did was wrong. It's not the teams fault. It's one guy's.
I see it as akin to the NCAA's "lack of institutional control" indictment against programs completely out of conrol
there's a nice article on espn.com about the systematic nature of this crap in hockey, the author blames it on Canada like a moron, but I think the point is valid w/ North America vs. Europe
RacinM3
03-12-04, 03:40 PM
I love how the anti-fight contingency comes out of the woodwork at times like these. Especially since this cowardly act didn't even involve a fight. It was an assault.
Think about this. Bertuzzi was trying to goad Moore into a fight. Moore wouldn't have it. Had they fought, this incident would not have happened. So you could say, it was a direct result of NOT FIGHTING.
I contend that if you eliminate fighting from the game, you will see an INCREASE in these types of scenarios. Eliminate the ability to fight and blow off aggression, and you'll have a real problem on your hands.
I'm tired of hearing "but they don't fight in college", and "but they don't fight in the Olympics".....they also don't play 84 games a year. Often times where one team plays another with high frequency in a small period of time. Example: The Kings play the Sharks FOUR TIMES between March 13 and April 4 of this year. This means tempers that flare in the first game have to be given an outlet, or the retribution will begin in subsequent games.
You can say, change the rules to penalize it, ban the players, whatever. It will still happen. Bertuzzi's BS move is illegal, but it still happened.
I'm also tired of hearing from people in traditional "hockey areas" that people in non-traditional hockey areas aren't qualified to comment. Firstly, people relocate, secondly, even here in So Cal, some of us were hardcore fans long before the Great One, and still are long after his departure. Just because the sun shines here 300 days a year doesn't mean we don't know our puck!
Just to be clear. I think fighting is part of the game. You take your gloves off, your helmet off, stand face to face and have at it sometimes.
This incident was nothing like that.
The Avs are such a saintly team, :rolleyes: I'm amazed anyone would want to do something like this to one of them.
To quote Chris Rock, "I'm not sayin' he shoulda done it. But I understand."
I love how the anti-fight contingency comes out of the woodwork at times like these. Especially since this cowardly act didn't even involve a fight. It was an assault.
Think about this. Bertuzzi was trying to goad Moore into a fight. Moore wouldn't have it. Had they fought, this incident would not have happened. So you could say, it was a direct result of NOT FIGHTING.
I contend that if you eliminate fighting from the game, you will see an INCREASE in these types of scenarios. Eliminate the ability to fight and blow off aggression, and you'll have a real problem on your hands.
I'm tired of hearing "but they don't fight in college", and "but they don't fight in the Olympics".....they also don't play 84 games a year. Often times where one team plays another with high frequency in a small period of time. Example: The Kings play the Sharks FOUR TIMES between March 13 and April 4 of this year. This means tempers that flare in the first game have to be given an outlet, or the retribution will begin in subsequent games.
ya, I mean, with all those fights in the NFL and stuff, with that sport being so violent... oh wait, they don't fight in the NFL, the play the sport they're supposed to.
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