View Full Version : New Owners/Same Cr@p
The straight dope just phoned, in from California
Two of the three Amigos took on funded drivers. Smaller teams needed these guys to commit to the series. Phillipe and Lavin are driving for PG and GF. I thought these guys loved Champcar? I thought they had mega bucks?
In whose interest where they serving?
Ever go to the hospital to see a friend, who is making a good recovery, only to get a phone call when you arrive home to learn of their death?
No what Im talkin' bout Willis?
Ziggy
chop456
03-11-04, 11:54 PM
The straight dope just phoned, in from California
Two of the three Amigos took on funded drivers. Smaller teams needed these guys to commit to the series. Phillipe and Lavin are driving for PG and GF. I thought these guys loved Champcar? I thought they had mega bucks?
In whose interest where they serving?
Ever go to the hospital to see a friend, who is making a good recovery, only to get a phone call when you arrive home to learn of their death?
No what Im talkin' bout Willis?
Ziggy
The Carp/Lavin deal struck me as fishy, too.
What the hell does Forsythe need Corona money for? He's run the FCR car on his own dime before, and he's a mogul compared to Patrick or Hogan, who ran w/o sponsorship.
Not good.
lone_groover
03-11-04, 11:54 PM
Rich guys are tight alright. But now that their big investment is in peril, big egos will open up the big checkbook.
I hope.
Sean O'Gorman
03-11-04, 11:56 PM
I realize that these are the guys who saved our series, but what were they thinking? All we need now is a mid-race rules change and its like Andy Evans is in charge. :(
Brickman
03-11-04, 11:57 PM
The straight dope just phoned, in from California
Two of the three Amigos took on funded drivers. Smaller teams needed these guys to commit to the series. Phillipe and Lavin are driving for PG and GF. I thought these guys loved Champcar? I thought they had mega bucks?
In whose interest where they serving?
Ever go to the hospital to see a friend, who is making a good recovery, only to get a phone call when you arrive home to learn of their death?
No what Im talkin' bout Willis?
Ziggy
Bet they will be asking for a Chevy redo. :shakehead:
I agree. They were looking at the artist's signature instead of the big picture.
Mike Kellner
03-11-04, 11:57 PM
Hey, I'd rather have them buying rides in ChampCar than Formula Gomer.
You gotta look at this right. That's two more for us, two less for Tony.
I welcome these great new talents to the best series on Earth.
mk
OWRs does not need talent right now, it needs cars.
Man, that was a mouth full!
Ziggy
Brickman
03-12-04, 12:00 AM
Hey, I'd rather have them buying rides in ChampCar than Formula Gomer.
You gotta look at this right. That's two more for us, two less for Tony.
I welcome these great new talents to the best series on Earth.
mk
God bless you Mike but they would never have gone to Indy Cars, no way, no how.
lone_groover
03-12-04, 12:03 AM
OWRs does not need talent right now, it needs cars.
Ziggy
Why does Tommy Kirk come to mind?
:)
racer2c
03-12-04, 12:04 AM
Hey, we all put on a good face when it was clear there would be a ChampCar season this year, but the truth of the matter is that Gentilozi talked out both sides of his mouth for the last nine months. "Tony and I are friends." "I've really never talked to the guy." "Merging would be the best for all". "Merging isn't an option."
I hate to say that it's crumbling, but to tell the truth I was looking for a hell of a lot more during this little LB shindig. Where is a killer title sponsor? Where are new teams? The biggest news of the three days was due 100% to Paul Newman. No one else.
They will put on a rag tag season this year. There are enough chassis' around that they can at least 'start' 16 cars to fulfill contracts. The cards were stacked against these guys from the start. The motor-racing world wants ChampCar to be a thing of the past and that pisses me off. I am ready to turn my back on all four wheel racing. NASCAR sucks. F1 sucks. IRL sucks. What's left? ALMS is as nonexistent as ChampCars.
MotoGP I guess. :thumbup:
Hey, I'd rather have them buying rides in ChampCar than Formula Gomer.
You gotta look at this right. That's two more for us, two less for Tony.
I welcome these great new talents to the best series on Earth.
mk
Rah! Rah! Rah! :shakehead
It might be two less for TG, but not for long if PG and GF keep looking after their own interests first....unless they are willing to fund 18 cars by themselves.
-Kevin
racer2c
03-12-04, 12:19 AM
Rah! Rah! Rah! :shakehead
It might be two less for TG, but not for long if PG and GF keep looking after their own interests first....unless they are willing to fund 18 cars by themselves.
-Kevin
I thought you wanted to stick to "facts" but here you are seconds later speculating on owners interests. What gives. Eh?
Mike Kellner
03-12-04, 12:20 AM
"It might be two less for TG, but not for long if PG and GF keep looking after their own interests first....unless they are willing to fund 18 cars by themselves."
Thanks for the D&G. I am sure it marks you as a deep thinking fan of superior intellect.
Personally, I prefer those who are positive.
mk
Brickman
03-12-04, 12:36 AM
"It might be two less for TG, but not for long if PG and GF keep looking after their own interests first....unless they are willing to fund 18 cars by themselves."
Thanks for the D&G. I am sure it marks you as a deep thinking fan of superior intellect.
Personally, I prefer those who are positive.
mk
Mike it is positively the most unpositive thing they could have done. It's not D&G it's fact.
The dumb thing is they will now have to field a car(s) out of their own pocket to catch back up.
Mike Kellner
03-12-04, 12:42 AM
"Mike it is positively the most unpositive thing they could have done. It's not D&G it's fact."
It's another D&G thread, and here's our old buddy Brickman, shovelling it out, and showing us how much he is concerned about C^RT/OWRS. Maybe you should post a few pictures of bad crashes to remind us how much you love the series.
mk
FCYTravis
03-12-04, 12:44 AM
Asinine. Absolutely freaking asinine. I just can't believe it... we've replaced bozos with a bunch of circus clowns.
WHY CAN'T OPEN-WHEEL RACING HAVE TALENTED LEADERSHIP FOR ONCE?
:shakehead :(
There are no leaders left in America. Where is Bernie when you need him?
I vote Dan Gurney for Open Wheel President.
Mike Kellner
03-12-04, 12:58 AM
Heck, he should have done the primaries. Mighta won.
mk
Robstar
03-12-04, 01:02 AM
I bought my Surfers tickets in November, when times were really bad - I've still got 'em, & there will be a race - I'm still quietly confident... :cool:
Brickman
03-12-04, 01:05 AM
"Mike it is positively the most unpositive thing they could have done. It's not D&G it's fact."
It's another D&G thread, and here's our old buddy Brickman, shovelling it out, and showing us how much he is concerned about C^RT/OWRS. Maybe you should post a few pictures of bad crashes to remind us how much you love the series.
mk
It's the only negative thing los Tres Amigos have done. It's the ONLY negative thing I have said. Not playing, sorry.
BM
Mike Kellner
03-12-04, 01:08 AM
I'm not gonna forget. I have you on the same list as Knock Off.
mk
FCYTravis
03-12-04, 01:14 AM
Oh come on now, quit with the "concerned CART fan" crap, Mike.
This is a DISASTER and to pretend it's anything else is sticking your head in the sand. To bash Brickman for pointing that out is beyond stupid.
The Carp/Lavin deal struck me as fishy, too.
What the hell does Forsythe need Corona money for? He's run the FCR car on his own dime before, and he's a mogul compared to Patrick or Hogan, who ran w/o sponsorship.
Not good.
Penny wise and pound foolish, all for a driver of Lavin's caliber. And you piss off a potential long term owner...possibly two. I knew this year would be bumpy at best but I was hoping for growth and strength through the year with the series emerging stronger than what it had started as. This is an awful way to build a series....you need teams...you need cars.
Mike Kellner
03-12-04, 01:24 AM
3.5 was a disaster. This is just a roster change.
mk
Tifosi24
03-12-04, 01:28 AM
I don't see any D&G here, this appears to be all fact. I for one feel that those running OWRS are more shaddy than I would care for. Why are having these two guys with Champ Car so great. It would appear that there is a good chance that Adrian would still be around if his driver wouldn't have been stolen by the owners. Your math seems kind of fuzzy there Mike. The leadership showed by this group has been just as bad as it has been since I became a fan (Spring 1996), same song different verse. I am confident that the field will get to where it needs to be, but at the expense of what and who else.
Mike, holding grudges isn't good for you, especially someone from a racing forum. I don't know the reason for not liking him, but come on you treat him like he kicked your dog or stole an ice cream cone from him. Grow up and get over.
pfc_m_drake
03-12-04, 02:09 AM
I vote Dan Gurney for Open Wheel President.
There was a thread on 7thGear about 8-9 months ago (when it had become clear that CART was heading for finincial disaster) entitled 'If not Chris Pook, who?'
The idea, of course, being that some people were questioning Pook's leadership - so somebody posed the question: If not him, who would you have picked?
Answers people posted ranged from Roger Penske to Tony George. Most said that Pook was the one and only choice.
I said Dan Gurney. It's really too bad that nobody asked him back in December of 2001.
Dan was on Robin Millers radio show, maybe his fourth or fifth guest. He said he had done his time, and it was time for someone new to step up and run the thing right.
I really dont think but a handfull of racers today could even comprehend Dan's accomplishments.
SteveH and I also talked with Alex Gurney at the races, who was just working on his rig. He told us that his Dad didnt even go to races anymore. He was at the USPG, and a fiasco broke out with the announcment of the Hill/Gurney to F1 rumor. Im sure that did wonders for him, as some comments where taken way out of context.
Ziggy
bigdcart
03-12-04, 02:50 AM
Hey, we all put on a good face when it was clear there would be a ChampCar season this year, but the truth of the matter is that Gentilozi talked out both sides of his mouth for the last nine months. "Tony and I are friends." "I've really never talked to the guy." "Merging would be the best for all". "Merging isn't an option."
I hate to say that it's crumbling, but to tell the truth I was looking for a hell of a lot more during this little LB shindig. Where is a killer title sponsor? Where are new teams? The biggest news of the three days was due 100% to Paul Newman. No one else.
They will put on a rag tag season this year. There are enough chassis' around that they can at least 'start' 16 cars to fulfill contracts. The cards were stacked against these guys from the start. The motor-racing world wants ChampCar to be a thing of the past and that pisses me off. I am ready to turn my back on all four wheel racing. NASCAR sucks. F1 sucks. IRL sucks. What's left? ALMS is as nonexistent as ChampCars.
MotoGP I guess. :thumbup:
I usually never quote such a lengthy post, but this one deserves it. It’s a working epitaph.
I knew that the Bob Jenkins thing was fishy.
The rate at which we have turned against the OWRS is amazing.
I usually never quote such a lengthy post, but this one deserves it. It’s a working epitaph.
I knew that the Bob Jenkins thing was fishy.
The rate at which we have turned against the OWRS is amazing.
I haven't turned against OWRS......yet. The buddy-buddy cr*p out of PG's mouth early on started getting me turned off to the 3 amigos quick. If there was one thing to learn from the last 8 years it's, you've got to turn your back on Indy and move away, quickly, in the opposite direction and never look back. He started right off making small talk through the media directed at the inheritor. It really makes me wonder what their initial motivation was to buy the series. I'm hangin in there but this keeps getting worse. The LB announcements were quite a letdown, I wonder if Adrian wasn't thinking the same thing which caused him to make his recent decision? :(
:thumdown:
This reads like a thread from 7G
The new owners are not idiots.
They refuse to be held hostage by people like Fernandez and Rahal. That's a good thing. But if you want to bail, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Robstar
03-12-04, 08:47 AM
:thumdown:
This reads like a thread from 7G
Ch-Ching... ! :rolleyes:
Mike Kellner
03-12-04, 09:20 AM
This reads like a thread from 7G
Ch-Ching... !
Yep. The same D&G brigade is posting the same crapola.
I would just as soon have the ship jumping rats go join their fellows in the substance abuse racing league right off. Hopefully the people here who want to trash ChampCar over the actions of a few traitors will follow them.
mk
Railbird
03-12-04, 09:36 AM
Christ, give it a break.
With car-count issues a definate front burner topic I would have to wonder about any fans of the series who didn't have questions about this development.
We have exactly five weeks to grid a full field in Long Beach. PG says it will be done so I'm willing to wait and see, but the clock is running.
JLMannin
03-12-04, 10:02 AM
Is anyone really suprised about Fernandez and Rahal bolting for the irl? How many years have they fielded irl 500 cars? How long have they been avowed sufferers of indyitis? If my memory serves, the answer to all the above questions is about five years, so it should be no suprise that they are leaving.
The only suprise is that Haas had indyitis all this time and kept it under wraps.
The teams and owners that compete in ChampCar this year will be 100% committed to champcar - no cases of indyitis to be found. And yes, I an confident that there will be a season this year. There may be fewer cars and owners than last year, but there will be no brick worshippers in the bunch.
Call me stubborn or an ostrich if you want - I would rather see open wheel formula racing in America dead than under TG control. 25/8 burned my @ss in 95 when it was announced, and I will not forget the feelings of shock, anger, disbelief and betrayal I felt as TG was rolling out the plans for the irl and destroying the one car race that was most important to me.
4wheeldrifter
03-12-04, 10:08 AM
It's just a business to all but us. The proof of that has never been more clear.
-Quietly waiting for LB.
originally posted by JLMannin
The teams and owners that compete in ChampCar this year will be 100% committed to champcar - no cases of indyitis to be found.
Correct me if I'm wrong JL, but didn't PG break from the gate with his "I'm a good bud of TG" deal right out of the gate? He sounded like one who was interested in merging the 2 series somehow, than someone who learned the lessons the past 8 years should have taught which is: Turn your back on Indy and never look back.
JLMannin
03-12-04, 10:34 AM
originally posted by cart7
Correct me if I'm wrong JL, but didn't PG break from the gate with his "I'm a good bud of TG" deal right out of the gate? He sounded like one who was interested in merging the 2 series somehow, than someone who learned the lessons the past 8 years should have taught which is: Turn your back on Indy and never look back.
PG is the only team owner that I can think of that joined the irl them migrated to Champ Car. I guess the truth will be told in the upcoming months.
pfc_m_drake
03-12-04, 10:36 AM
PG is the only team owner that I can think of that joined the irl them migrated to Champ Car. I guess the truth will be told in the upcoming months.
John Della Penna, Eric Bachalart
PG is the only team owner that I can think of that joined the irl them migrated to Champ Car. I guess the truth will be told in the upcoming months.
Don't forget Della Penna and Conquest.
Doh! Drake beat me to it.
JLMannin
03-12-04, 10:43 AM
John Della Penna, Eric Bachalart
That is correct. Somehow, I thought that PG was involved with the Bachalart team. And I completely forgot Della Penna.
Christ, give it a break.
With car-count issues a definate front burner topic I would have to wonder about any fans of the series who didn't have questions about this development.
We have exactly five weeks to grid a full field in Long Beach. PG says it will be done so I'm willing to wait and see, but the clock is running.Once again 'bird supplies the voice of reason. :thumbup:
I realize that these are the guys who saved our series, but what were they thinking? All we need now is a mid-race rules change and its like Andy Evans is in charge. :(
they haven't saved anything unless the series makes it a season :(
I'm not gonna forget. I have you on the same list as Knock Off.
mk
:rofl: :rofl:
3.5 was a disaster. This is just a roster change.
mk
It's a big problem, Forsythe will end up having to dump $ to run a car.
Which is better, letting Lavin fund someone like Fernandez and keep a name associated with the series around while he goes and grabs some F3K kiddie with some cash; or takes Lavin for himself, lets a guy like Fernandez leave, and is forced to find another car elsewhere as well as an outfit willing to run it?
JLMannin
03-12-04, 12:37 PM
they haven't saved anything unless the series makes it a season :(
And in the event the sun does not rise tomorrow, we must face the prospect of eternal darkness and plan accordingly. To ignore the possibility that the sun may not rise as scheduled tomorrow is foolish and short-sighted.
:shakehead
Steve99
03-12-04, 12:44 PM
Which is better, letting Lavin fund someone like Fernandez and keep a name associated with the series around while he goes and grabs some F3K kiddie with some cash; or takes Lavin for himself, lets a guy like Fernandez leave, and is forced to find another car elsewhere as well as an outfit willing to run it?
That sums up the issue nicely.
The "Forsythe Stole Lavin From Fernandez" story is quite fishy. Lavin's backer is Corona, and Fernandez has Tecate. I just don't see those two sponsors co-existing on the same team.
That said, I'm with Ziggy - with the money OWRS is going to spend, it makes sense for the series to let the smaller teams have the ride-buyers. All 3 of them picked up ride buyers (Forsythe got Lavin, Kalkoven got Gonzalez, and Gentilozzi got Philippe.)
What is concerning is that two of the ride buyers OWRS owners hired had been previously been linked to 2nd cars with other teams. Philippe spent all off-season testing for Conquest, and Gonzalez drove for Herdez at Mexico City last year. With car counts an issue, I would have thought that the OWRS principles would use both of their cars for "fan favorites" and let the ride buyers support the rest of the grid.
Instead, it seems like they've put a "fan favorite" in one car, and a ride buyer in the other - that leaves nothing for the rest of the grid. I'm sure they'll come up with the cars they need, but it seems like this method will both cost them more money, and lead to other team owners questioning their motives.
But, they have a chance to learn from their mistakes and move on. For example, Rahal might have a lot better feeling about OWRS if all of a sudden Patrick Carpentier had funding to be be Jourdain's teammate.
And in the event the sun does not rise tomorrow, we must face the prospect of eternal darkness and plan accordingly. To ignore the possibility that the sun may not rise as scheduled tomorrow is foolish and short-sighted.
:shakehead
well that's what nuclear power is for.
in the event of a failing sun, i see congress lifting all the restrictions on new nuclear construction in the nation that currently make a nuclear reactor project very infeasible
Good point JB, if indeed the rug was pulled out from under Adrian, who could blame him? Who's next?? GF is the billionaire in this deal, funding a couple extra cars out of his own pocket for a year or two until the series is upright is pocket change for him. This has got to be causing some uneasiness in the ranks.
Right or wrong, it seems like a major tactical blunder by OWRS. For the spare change that Lavin is bringing you lose an entry and a major drawing card for your big events in Mexico. Worse still, you tip a domino that starts everyone putting their hand out and could bring the whole thing down. Even if Gerry is willing to roll out however many cars it takes himself, what will he have left to draw at the major events that OWRS was counting on to sustain the series?
I'm not happy about Adrian's part in this, either. At this point in his career he's a fool to risk his neck and it's bs for him to suggest that he's *owed* a handout for another car.
Well folks if you want to work yourselves into fits about this, go ahead, but it isn’t worth it anymore.
If any of you admire anyone in motor racing for any reason after what has happened the last ten years, you are more saintly, or more gullible, than me, and I suppose, either way, you ought to be congratulated.
As for me, if the race at Road America happens, I’ll be there. I’ll send my money, and I’ll have a good time. If not, I won’t. Same’s true of Cleveland and Mid-Ohio.
Until then, I'm just gonna chill.
Ed_Severson
03-12-04, 06:29 PM
If Fernandez left because of the Forsythe/Lavin deal, well, that's just retarded.
It doesn't matter if Forsythe is a series owner or not -- he's a *team* owner, and any funded driver looking for a seat is available to him, as well as all other team owners. It's unreasonable to expect him to allow guys like Adrian, who haven't put their ass on the line for ChampCar, to get advantages that he doesn't.
I'm pretty disappointed in Fernandez. No matter how you spin it, this was nobody's decision but his, and he's given zero legitimate reason for doing it.
pinniped
03-12-04, 07:04 PM
Maybe he feels it is his business to run his business, and that his business would be better served elsewhere...have to admit I was underwhelmed at the showing as reported (glad I didn't go to it) in Long Beach and the brief "don't worry about it" sound bite from Gentilozzi bothered me...okay Paul, tell us why we shouldn't worry about it...if you are or if Jerry and Kevin are just going to fill the field out if needed that's great, but say something...can't be too hard on Fernandez either if the struggling Forsythe team poached his ride buyer although the idea that Forsythe and Fernandez are fighting over him elicits a strong gag reflex. Add that to uncertainty and an engine manufacturer or Tony bagholder winking at him from Indy and look what happens.
That said, I am going to just enjoy the racing. Maybe if all the racing series kill each other off we can start over in a few years and not run things like apes with ADD
racer2c
03-12-04, 07:16 PM
Maybe he feels it is his business to run his business, and that his business would be better served elsewhere...have to admit I was underwhelmed at the showing as reported (glad I didn't go to it) in Long Beach and the brief "don't worry about it" sound bite from Gentilozzi bothered me...okay Paul, tell us why we shouldn't worry about it...if you are or if Jerry and Kevin are just going to fill the field out if needed that's great, but say something...can't be too hard on Fernandez either if the struggling Forsythe team poached his ride buyer although the idea that Forsythe and Fernandez are fighting over him elicits a strong gag reflex. Add that to uncertainty and an engine manufacturer or Tony bagholder winking at him from Indy and look what happens.
That said, I am going to just enjoy the racing. Maybe if all the racing series kill each other off we can start over in a few years and not run things like apes with ADD
:thumbup:
Christ, give it a break.
With car-count issues a definate front burner topic I would have to wonder about any fans of the series who didn't have questions about this development.
We have exactly five weeks to grid a full field in Long Beach. PG says it will be done so I'm willing to wait and see, but the clock is running.
Car count is certainly a legitimate topic, not doom and gloom. Sticking ones head in the sand and not accepting the concerns for the series is as blind an action as the followers of tg's vision. As far as Adrian F, my concern for his leaving is not as a driver but as an owner, especially a Mexican owner with a huge following in his home country and ties to Mexican corporations. We need owners as much as we need cars.
Uh huh, the clock is running...and it's 11:59! Why do you people insist if a serious doubt is raised we must somehow be D&G brick lovin' roundie-rounders? Internalize everything and make it personal? Sorry, I choose not to whistle through the graveyard. The cumulative affect of the last long while is more than adding up, it is becoming crushing. Follow Formula BMW or the Barber Kia series if you want, the landscape of racing is undergoing a fast and permanent change . It is clear those involved want to be where THEY want to be , not where WE want them to be. DAMN them for not checking with us first, eh? Blame who or whatever you want, if it makes you feel better, but it won't change the reality of the day. So, how many Can- Ammers and ol' F-1 cars at RA this summer? :)
... I'm pretty disappointed in Fernandez. No matter how you spin it, this was nobody's decision but his, and he's given zero legitimate reason for doing it.
I'd like to ask Lavin why he went to Forsythe with his Corona budget. I'd bet that it had something to do with stepping into a much better prepared car than anything Fernandez would have given to him.
pchall wrote
"I'd like to ask Lavin why he went to Forsythe with his Corona budget. I'd bet that it had something to do with stepping into a much better prepared car than anything Fernandez would have given to him."
Now, the $64,000 question?????
Do you think he could tell the difference??? How well does a car have to be prepaired to run off into the toolies on lap 2????
Lavin "it handles real well behind the wrecker" "I dont know if it has anything to do with my crashing, but it seems like everytime it happens, just before I crash, there's this really loud sound right behind my back"......
Ziggy
Ed_Severson
03-13-04, 01:56 AM
"I'd like to ask Lavin why he went to Forsythe with his Corona budget. I'd bet that it had something to do with stepping into a much better prepared car than anything Fernandez would have given to him."
Bingo.
Furthermore, if this whole thing is about the Corona pesos, Adrian's response doesn't add up. You didn't get the free driver you wanted, so you're going to switch series, buy a brand new car and lease more engines, because that'll be less expensive?
Yeah.
Brickman
03-13-04, 02:59 AM
"I'd like to ask Lavin why he went to Forsythe with his Corona budget. I'd bet that it had something to do with stepping into a much better prepared car than anything Fernandez would have given to him."
Bingo.
Furthermore, if this whole thing is about the Corona pesos, Adrian's response doesn't add up. You didn't get the free driver you wanted, so you're going to switch series, buy a brand new car and lease more engines, because that'll be less expensive?
Yeah.
Honda dollars.... plain and simple.
Dr. Corkski
03-13-04, 05:17 AM
From what I have been told it was Gonzalez that Fernandez was after, not Lavin. Rahal was supposedly after Lavin before Forsythe made off with that wanker's check. Again, this is all heresay, so if you don't believe it, feel free to, because I couldn't care less. ;)
pchall wrote
"I'd like to ask Lavin why he went to Forsythe with his Corona budget. I'd bet that it had something to do with stepping into a much better prepared car than anything Fernandez would have given to him."
Now, the $64,000 question?????
Do you think he could tell the difference??? How well does a car have to be prepaired to run off into the toolies on lap 2????
Lavin "it handles real well behind the wrecker" "I dont know if it has anything to do with my crashing, but it seems like everytime it happens, just before I crash, there's this really loud sound right behind my back"......
Ziggy
:rofl: Good one
Spicoli
03-13-04, 10:42 AM
From what I have been told it was Gonzalez that Fernandez was after, not Lavin. Rahal was supposedly after Lavin before Forsythe made off with that wanker's check. Again, this is all heresay, so if you don't believe it, feel free to, because I couldn't care less. ;)
Yeah, this is what i was told as well. Now there's a story about how Adrian was supposedly due some fat cash from OWRS, and didn;t get paid, etc etc....
I think once we get thru this crap, we'll see the following:
PG will be traded down to team owner, KK will run the entire show with Eidswick in control and a much leaner sanctioning body. GF will be a very silent minority owner, and will concentrate on promoting events (seems to be what he & Heitzler do best) and one by one, track owners and teams will start to come back. What is EARL? A friggin joke. TG is so far into himself and killing Champ, that it really doesn;t matter if eARL succeeds, its about killing Champ now.
I have to agree that losing Adrian sucks, but lets fce it, his driving days were over, and the Yen swooped in and bought his name (sounds terribly Mikeyesque).
Drivers do not good owners make, and that is eveidence everywhere with exception of maybe Eric B and Ganasti. They have done well. But l;ook at Mikey, Rahole, Stefan, Emmo - all pretty much either failures or bad experiments propped up ONLY bu fat factory money.
I'd take 10 Gerry/Kevin/Haas's over the future Adrian's of the world. Its all about Adrian, just like its all about TG.
Railbird
03-13-04, 12:14 PM
Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1079133610466&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064)
Brickman
03-13-04, 12:36 PM
Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1079133610466&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064)
"These guys shouldn't be fielding paying drivers. If they believe that much in the series they should be putting up the money and fielding cars out of their own pockets.''
Tracy pointed out there are at least four former Formula 1 drivers — Mika Salo, Jos Verstappen, Justin Wilson and Ralph Firman — seeking rides.
"They have to put some name drivers in cars," said Tracy.
"The only way this series is going to survive is if these guys put their hands in their pockets and spend some money."
Contacted at his Illinois office, Forsythe said the claims that he and Kalkhoven pulled the rug out from under the other teams were not accurate.
"They came to us," he said."
Ohhh... so it's their fault. :shakehead:
Kudos to Tracy, give his boss some sound advice... This is really about why those in control of a series should not be fielding cars. But if they are should be doing so independantly from other teams and sponsors. Go get Atlantic drivers or IRL drivers, just don't kill your young to feed yourself.
Toronto's Paul Tracy, the defending series champion who is top driver on Forsythe's team, said he heard the rumours regarding the two Mexican drivers.
"Apparently both Rahal and Fernandez are (ticked) off that both those Mexican drivers were slated to go to their teams, but the big millionaires came in and scooped them," said Tracy in a telephone interview from his Las Vegas home.
"These guys shouldn't be fielding paying drivers. If they believe that much in the series they should be putting up the money and fielding cars out of their own pockets.''
Tracy pointed out there are at least four former Formula 1 drivers — Mika Salo, Jos Verstappen, Justin Wilson and Ralph Firman — seeking rides.
"They have to put some name drivers in cars," said Tracy.
"The only way this series is going to survive is if these guys put their hands in their pockets and spend some money."
Thanks Paul. That's my only beef in this, the guys with the money who want to resurrect this series are cutting corners at every corner. One way or another, if they don't have 16 -18 cars, they'll have to fund them out of their pocket anyway. Why not leave the ride buyers for the teams grasping for sponsorships? This keeps these guys in the program. I don't think for a minute that either Rahal or Adrian want to go twirling in circles out of choice but it's coming down to the bottom line and sponsorship wishes. Give them an out if need be for christ sakes.
I don't think for a minute that either Rahal or Adrian want to go twirling in circles out of choice but it's coming down to the bottom line and sponsorship wishes. Give them an out if need be for christ sakes.
Don't know about Adrian but Rahal has made it quite clear that the ONLY reason he is in Champcar is because of Gigante.
Railbird
03-13-04, 01:48 PM
Ralph Firman (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/Sport/story.asp?datetime=12+Mar+2004+12:42&tbrand=ENOnline&tCategory=SPORT&category=Sport&brand=ENOnline&itemid=NOED12+Mar+2004+12:56:37:567)
Racing Truth
03-13-04, 03:42 PM
Ralph Firman (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/Sport/story.asp?datetime=12+Mar+2004+12:42&tbrand=ENOnline&tCategory=SPORT&category=Sport&brand=ENOnline&itemid=NOED12+Mar+2004+12:56:37:567)
Interesting. Maybe Conquest or a 3rd Haas car?
pinniped
03-13-04, 05:41 PM
I have since read a quote from Kevin Kalkhoven that they had 18 cars in the bag before, now 17...it shouldn't be too tough to come up with one more car before long beach.
Racing Truth
03-13-04, 06:31 PM
I have since read a quote from Kevin Kalkhoven that they had 18 cars in the bag before, now 17...it shouldn't be too tough to come up with one more car before long beach.
Fine, but they WILL have to spend money to do. Heck, The Three Amigos took away two viable ridebuys for low-budget teams on their own, so tell me how Conquest, Coyne, and Walker are gonna make it w/o some help?
pinniped
03-13-04, 06:38 PM
That I can't do...heck, I don't even know how they get to 17. And I agree with you, they'll have to open their pocketbooks to do it...they should have expected this and they should do it...
solpadeine
03-13-04, 07:36 PM
I'd be willing to waive my normal appearance fee to fill one of the spots if necessary.
audi quattro
03-14-04, 01:04 AM
New owners new name and same old fatalist pessimistic trolls.
Insomniac
03-14-04, 04:50 PM
If Fernandez left because of the Forsythe/Lavin deal, well, that's just retarded.
It doesn't matter if Forsythe is a series owner or not -- he's a *team* owner, and any funded driver looking for a seat is available to him, as well as all other team owners. It's unreasonable to expect him to allow guys like Adrian, who haven't put their ass on the line for ChampCar, to get advantages that he doesn't.
I'm pretty disappointed in Fernandez. No matter how you spin it, this was nobody's decision but his, and he's given zero legitimate reason for doing it.
Maybe the Carona money was also going to prop up AF's team. Without it, he needed money from OWRS and they aren't giving hand-outs. Just a thought. While I don't have any respect left for AF, I think GF running only PT and AF having two cars is better than GF having 2 cars and AF gone.
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