Stop the madness...

[Racing Truth]

I posted the following on TF, and aimed it to that audience, but the main thrust is just as relevant to ALL OW fans, including, IMHO, the CW bunch. Flame away.

"Well, while the rumor-mongering had convinced many here that OWRS would be dead by week's end, that clearly did not, and will not, happen.

Now, it's time to focus on the IRL and Phoenix. There are good things out there (AF coming, Pat Patrick supposedly doing Indy, etc..). There are still problems, esp. car counts.

Improving your favorite series, whatever it is, will not come about by focusing on another.

My point. Move on. Enjoy your series. Forget the others."

Again, remember where this was posted. But if nothing else, the last line ought to apply to everyone.

[racer2c]

I'm not flaming, but I am going to disagree to some extent.

I used to enjoy NHRA years ago. I don't follow them any more. I love F1. Watch the occasional WRC (although tire of it very quickly), never could stand NASCAR, I enjoy looking at prototype sports cars, but find the races extremely boring (sue me). I watched swamp buggies once, it was a riot. I like MotoGP.

What's the difference between these race entities and the IRL? The leader of these race series isn't out to kill my favorite series at every turn. never once did I hear their leaders make comments about bringing hammers to work in hopes of nailing shut the ChampCar coffin.

Tony won't rest until ChampCar is dead. In turn, I won't stop hating his sorry momentum, all oval POS series.

[datachicane]

Enjoy your series? Forget the other?
What if "the other" series is actively working towards the extermination of "your" series?

Don't you find it odd that there were quotes from "IRL sources" in the Gigante story in the Toronto Sun?

We all know who the parties are that are working overtime to ensure that Long Beach doesn't happen, but you're saying that we should ignore the dagger aimed at the heart of the series we enjoy, and "move on"?
:flame:

[rabbit]

what racer2c and datachicane said....

[Chief]

Not quite sure if this is an advertisement for Phoenix or a public service announcement to improve open wheel racing fans mental health.

You're right, it's Sebring and NCAA BBall for me. I'll forget all about the rest.

[lone_groover]

Noble sentiment Racing Truth, but no can do.

Have to agree with the distinguished gentlemen (and racer2c), and vote NAY.

:)

[Racing Truth]

Absolutely focus on what Tony and the leadership (what little exists) does that directly hurts ChampCar. That has a direct impact on the future. As for the IRL itself, stop obsessing over it.

Chief: Remember where I posted it. Context. Had the post originated here, it would have come out differently, with the same message.

[datachicane]

Absolutely focus on what Tony and the leadership (what little exists) does that directly hurts ChampCar. That has a direct impact on the future. As for the IRL itself, stop obsessing over it.

???
It's the same freaking organization!

Do you think that Tony George and Fred Nation magically transform from evil CART-killers into benevolent IRL dignitaries whenever they switch baseball caps? How can you separate an organization from the people who work in that organization?

How about a Peter Gibbons-luring Mikey, is he OK? How about Honda and Toyota and their checkbooks, are their hands clean? Exactly who in the IRL should we give a pass? Jack Arute?
:flame:

[JLMannin]

Absolutely focus on what Tony and the leadership (what little exists) does that directly hurts ChampCar. That has a direct impact on the future. As for the IRL itself, stop obsessing over it.

Chief: Remember where I posted it. Context. Had the post originated here, it would have come out differently, with the same message.

"TG and the leadership" is the IRL TG and the leadership created the IRL. 25/8, wooing Toyota and Honda to go irl, the attempt to shut down the OWRS buyout in Otte's courtroom, and the calling in of the Hondabucks this week to poach Champcar teams to go irl in an attempt to shut down the LB race are all attempts to kill CART/what became of CART. These were all perpetrated by TG, the inheretor of the speedway and the creator of the irl. The sole purpose of the existance of the irl is to destroy CART/Champcar. The IRL has no real product - when the irl goes road racing in 2005, it will be indistinguishable from what CART was pre-1996.

More racing is not better.

No. we all just can't get along.

No, I just can't focus in my series of choice when the other series is actively attempting to kill off mine.

[Racing Truth]

???
It's the same freaking organization!

Do you think that Tony George and Fred Nation magically transform from evil CART-killers into benevolent IRL dignitaries whenever they switch baseball caps? How can you separate an organization from the people who work in that organization?

How about a Peter Gibbons-luring Mikey, is he OK? How about Honda and Toyota and their checkbooks, are their hands clean? Exactly who in the IRL should we give a pass? Jack Arute?
:flame:

I guess I'm separating out the RACING SERIES from, as you say, the organization. Maybe I should not. Absolutely, focus on those like TG, Nation, Barnhart, etc. Its the obsession, with some fans, that go out of the way to hammer the other side's racing. This goes for all sides: You don't like the racing. That's fine. The point has been made numerous times. Now, stop obsessing over it, i.e. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT!

[mapguy]

I guess I'm separating out the RACING SERIES from, as you say, the organization. Maybe I should not. Absolutely, focus on those like TG, Nation, Barnhart, etc. Its the obsession, with some fans, that go out of the way to hammer the other side's racing. This goes for all sides: You don't like the racing. That's fine. The point has been made numerous times. Now, stop obsessing over it, i.e. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT!

You just don't get it, do you?

[Racing Truth]

You just don't get it, do you?

I guess I'm just tired of the whole d@mn thing. Just MHO.

[datachicane]

I guess I'm just tired of the whole d@mn thing. Just MHO.

Join the club.
I was tired of it in '96.
I couldn't believe it was still going on in '99.
I'm beyond words now.

Just because I'm tired of seeing something I love get backstabbed and trampled doesn't mean that I'm about to 'get over' the organization behind it all. I'm tired of racism, too, but I'm not about to 'get over' the KKK.

It's no different than saying that I shouldn't get down on the KKK's parades, just because I have a problem with some of the organization's non-parade activities.
:flame:

[racer2c]

When Tony aggressively lures teams from ChampCar to the IRL, when Tony hinders ChampCar teams that help fill his crown jewel by underhanded manipulations, when Tony's boys show up at CART events to hand out IRL fliers to VIP guests HE IS BLENDING THE RACE SERIES WITH HIS OWN AGENDA. The two go hand in hand. Period.

Who isn't sick of it? I was sick of Tony in '95. ChampCar and it's fans are trying to continue on their own path, it's Tony that won't stop.

[FRANKY]

I think disinformation is everywhere. When rumors rule you know it's trouble. First comes the AF announcement, I think it was Ziggy that confirmed that it was because "took on funded drivers", turns out that wasn't it at all, then Spicoli says Honda wrote the check the day before LB, that AF was trying to get $2,000,000.00 from KK. If that was the case and KK gave him some cash then what would have happened to the "signed" Honda contract AF had?

The whole ball of wax is BS. You can't trust TG, you can't trust PG. You can't trust what anybody tells you because they all have reasons to lie. Everybody wants the other guy to be the bad guy, nobody wants to give anybody the benefit of the doubt. The letter last night on Windtunnel was right, open wheel's civil war just plain sucks.

[racer2c]

Nine years Tony has held on to his power trip. Three CART CEO's extended the olive branch only to get it broken as the door slammed shut. It's more than just the AF departure. Instead of tony taking Racing Truth's advice and concentrating on growing his own series, he's concentrated on killing CART to the detriment of an American tradition and the sport in general.

[Racing Truth]

I would point out that the current TG/Honda conspiracy theories, while plausible are unsubstantiated THEORIES. We'll kmow eventually,

I know most of you are thinking, "My God, what an idiot troll." I can see where it would appear that way, from this thread. But I have no love for Tony George or what he has done. I hold him primarily responsible for the destruction of a once great sport. I guess the letter on Windbag that Franky referenced just struck me.

That said, I think some here are a bit PO'ed at me, and I just want to apologize. Didn't want to start something.

[racer2c]

I would point out that the current TG/Honda conspiracy theories, while plausible are unsubstantiated THEORIES. We'll kmow eventually,

I know most of you are thinking, "My God, what an idiot troll." I can see where it would appear that way, from this thread. But I have no love for Tony George or what he has done. I hold him primarily responsible for the destruction of a once great sport. I guess the letter on Windbag that Franky referenced just struck me.

That said, I think some here are a bit PO'ed at me, and I just want to apologize. Didn't want to start something.

Any venom here is aimed squarely at Tony, not you. I've seen many posts from TF over the last few years from loyal IRL fans who are disillusioned by Tony's new visions.

[FRANKY]

I sure would like to know what the deal was that they almost made, just another thing nobody can trust anybody about.

[pchall]

"... My point. Move on. Enjoy your series. Forget the others."

Again, remember where this was posted. But if nothing else, the last line ought to apply to everyone.

Not as long as Tony has his PlaySchool hammer.

[Mike Kellner]

I don't plan to get over it, ever. The damage the Great Gomer's tantrum did to the sport I love is immense, and my hatred of him, his series, and its followers is just as large.

F**K Tony, his series, and its fans.

mk

[RTKar]

I'm not flaming, but I am going to disagree to some extent.

I used to enjoy NHRA years ago. I don't follow them any more. I love F1. Watch the occasional WRC (although tire of it very quickly), never could stand NASCAR, I enjoy looking at prototype sports cars, but find the races extremely boring (sue me). I watched swamp buggies once, it was a riot. I like MotoGP.

What's the difference between these race entities and the IRL? The leader of these race series isn't out to kill my favorite series at every turn. never once did I hear their leaders make comments about bringing hammers to work in hopes of nailing shut the ChampCar coffin.
Tony won't rest until ChampCar is dead. In turn, I won't stop hating his sorry momentum, all oval POS series.

I can't respect a series based on lies nor the person spewing them.

[FTG]

Divorces are easier to start than to end.

Wars too.

[Insomniac]

FIRL

I think that sums it up nicely. :)

[cart7]

FTG, pretty plain and simple. BTW RT, TG's been actively seeking deals with current CCWS tracks the past year, I'm sure he'll get even more aggressive now. I can't overlook that. I want the spirit of Cart through CCWS to carry on and prevail. As long as TG continues to obsess on killing the series formerly known as Cart this isn't going to go away. :thumdown:

[Railbird]

My main complaint with TG is that he whored out the Indianapolis 500 in an attempt to destroy CART. Thus screwing up my two favorite things in racing.

Had he actually accomplished something like bringing the short trackers back or equalizing the rich guys with the little guys I would had to have grudgingly give him his due whether I liked the result or not. As it is he is just the f**kup that ruined the deal.

I won't be as hard on the participants as some around here, but I won't miss a chance to drag the management around in the mud.

[RTKar]

FTG, pretty plain and simple. BTW RT, TG's been actively seeking deals with current CCWS tracks the past year, I'm sure he'll get even more aggressive now. I can't overlook that. I want the spirit of Cart through CCWS to carry on and prevail. As long as TG continues to obsess on killing the series formerly known as Cart this isn't going to go away. :thumdown:


He'll have a race in Milwaukee this year and I'd bet my last dollar that he covets the CCWS race date. I fully expect a meager crowd for the irl race unless there are massive give aways.

[Racing Truth]

He'll have a race in Milwaukee this year and I'd bet my last dollar that he covets the CCWS race date. I fully expect a meager crowd for the irl race unless there are massive give aways.

Agreed.

To further clarify, I agree with most of cart7, RTKar, and 'bird have said. Going after TG (since he's going after ChampCar) is more than appropriate.

Anyway, carry on.

[pchall]

Agreed.

To further clarify, I agree with most of cart7, RTKar, and 'bird have said. Going after TG (since he's going after ChampCar) is more than appropriate.

Anyway, carry on.

There can be no distinction between Tony George and the pathetic little series he has created.

[Railbird]

and I'd bet my last dollar that he covets the CCWS race date.

I bet he does too but his deal with Texas calls for it to be the first race after Indy. Texas is as close to a success as the IRL has, and like others I doubt they'll do too good at Milwaukee, so it will be intersting to see what happens. Hopefully the CCWS will put on a good show and it will not be a concern.

[Mike Kellner]

If the Great Gomer has any brains, he will go for a State Fair date. USAC used to have two Champ Car races and one USAC stock car race during Fair Week. The Rex Mays is a historic date, but it is often cold in late May, early June, especially if they race at 8 pm. With the huge State Fair crowds, Formula Tony might be able to give away enough tickets to have the place half full, which is a sell-out using IRL math.

mk

[Railbird]

I used to love that Fair date Mike, nothing like the Cheesehead stae fair sorounding a good race. Lots of good food and great people.

Back then, with two races at Michigan and Milwaukee, it was easy to take in a good part of the Champcar season if you lived in the midwest. Throw in a road trip to either/both MO and RA and you had the season half covered.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

There's a word for what TG is trying to do to OWRS: Genocide.

I'm no fan of Paul G's (I think he's a self-serving idiot), but I'll support him over TG any day. The lesser of two evils.

[mueber]

I don't plan to get over it, ever. The damage the Great Gomer's tantrum did to the sport I love is immense, and my hatred of him, his series, and its followers is just as large.

mk

Sums up my point of view. Tony George is a jerk all the time, which makes it impossible to ignore him.

On the other hand in order to succeed, OWRS needs a boatload of money and brilliant management; that’s what they need to dwell on. If Tony George gets religion and joins a cloister tomorrow, that will still be the case.

Me, I’m backing OWRS because they aren’t Boy George and they have the kind of racing I’ve loved for decades. If it works, it works. If it doesn’t, sports cars and motorcycles for me while open wheel remains a mess.

Sure hope it works.

[Madmaxfan2]

YOu know what, Racewriter, your sentiments might be good advice IF TG is a half decent businessman, He is not. Therefore, despite whatever happens to OWRS, the IRL will never be a truely successful racing series. It will never hold a candle to the glory days of CART. Why do I state that?, look at history, circia 1970-1979, USAC champ car trail. It was so lame CART had to be formed to rescue the sport, The IRL has the same genes as the USAC Champ Car series. Formula Car racing at the top level is poorer today than in 1995 in North America, and fans will not definently forget, much less forgive.

[JLMannin]

If the Great Gomer has any brains, he will go for a State Fair date. USAC used to have two Champ Car races and one USAC stock car race during Fair Week. The Rex Mays is a historic date, but it is often cold in late May, early June, especially if they race at 8 pm. With the huge State Fair crowds, Formula Tony might be able to give away enough tickets to have the place half full, which is a sell-out using IRL math.

mk

At one point, the fail board claimed that they could make more money parking cars on the track than by having a race. I'm not sure that is true.

I do think they could make more $$ by having concerts than having a race weekend.

I have always felt that the fair board would be much happier if the track was not there.

Anyway, back to the main topic: this comment


I don't plan to get over it, ever. The damage the Great Gomer's tantrum did to the sport I love is immense, and my hatred of him, his series, and its followers is just as large.

rings very true to me. It sums up my thoughts very concisely.

[oddlycalm]

Trying to turn away and ignore the EARL is like trying to ignore a family of skunks living under your house. Your benevolence is inevitably repaid by the skunks rendering your house uninhabitable. The difference is, skunks can't help it, it's just the way they are made.

oc