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skibum
03-20-04, 07:07 PM
I have read on various boards that Honda and FTG were paying to get AF and FBR to move to the other series. What does Honda get out of this especially if they go to NASCAR in a few years? Can Honda supply engines for everyone that moves?
pfc_m_drake
03-20-04, 07:12 PM
Competitive teams+drivers other than AGR Racing is what they get out of the deal.

As far as Honda going to NASCAR...everybody keeps saying this, and I'll be perfectly frank with you...I just flat don't see it.
Sean O'Gorman
03-20-04, 08:06 PM
My somewhat educated guess:

Honda isn't happy with the ROI they are getting from the IRL, and apparently they attribute that to the split. They believe that spending the $$$ to do their part to end Champ Car will pay off down the road by allowing the IRL to move on from the split. However, it doesn't take a genius to see that the IRL's problems go waaay beyond the presence of the split.

As for Honda to NASCAR, I see it happening. NASCAR is big in the Midwest, where Japanese car sales appear to be their weakest. Toyota and Honda look to be in the NASCAR and IRL type racing to try and influence the "all-American" buyers who dismiss buying Japanese cars for being foreign, but may change their minds if they see Toyotas and Hondas winning in NASCAR, especially when they learn they are built in the U.S.
pchall
03-20-04, 08:21 PM
Honda will battle Toyota wherever they go. There is lots of corporate face involved here.
KLang
03-20-04, 08:28 PM
It's sad really. It used to be that Honda raced in order to grow better engineers. Now, as pchall said, beating Toyota seems to be all that matters. Heck are they still badging Ilmor's?
Insomniac
03-20-04, 08:47 PM
Honda gets more visibility in the IRL. They are bringing in people who will hopefully help them win races, Indy and a championship.

RE: NASCAR

The whole point of them racing is to sell cars. Do they want to sell cars to the few of us left watching OWR or to the millions who watch and attend NASCAR races? They both want to be there and Toyota will get there first. Honda and Toyota compete with each other so it makes sense that they would advertise to the same people.
Railbird
03-20-04, 10:15 PM
What does Honda get?

Indy

and at this point in time a main stream TV package.

Of course I'd be willing to bet that they have a group studying Nascar.
FTG
03-20-04, 11:20 PM
They are allowed to enter NASCAR.
devilmaster
03-20-04, 11:45 PM
What does Honda get out of this especially if they go to NASCAR in a few years?



The full page ad in top flight newspapers that say "Honda Won the Indy 500"

The old adage is: Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday.

Steve
audi quattro
03-21-04, 12:01 AM
not to mention increasing their chances to win at motegi.

Have they won there yet?
racer2c
03-21-04, 12:46 AM
Honda gets more visibility in the IRL. They are bringing in people who will hopefully help them win races, Indy and a championship.

RE: NASCAR

The whole point of them racing is to sell cars. Do they want to sell cars to the few of us left watching OWR or to the millions who watch and attend NASCAR races? They both want to be there and Toyota will get there first. Honda and Toyota compete with each other so it makes sense that they would advertise to the same people.

No one enters openwheel racing to sell cars. Never have, never will. They enter thoroughbred racing to showcase technology. Ferrari doesn't race in F1 to sell cars, they sell cars to race in F1. Even Honda realized that it was useless to build IRL engines in house so they badge an Ilmor.

So exactly how much more visibility does Honda get in the IRL vs ChampCar? How many races has Adrian Fernandez won in the last five years? And since when did an IRL championship mean anything? ChampCar had 2 million in attendance last year. That's more than just a few. But, then we know who you really cheer for...

I should be surprised if Honda does fall for the NASCAR trip, but
Racing Truth
03-21-04, 01:07 PM
not to mention increasing their chances to win at motegi.

Have they won there yet?

Nope, and methinks that doesn't sit well in corporate offices.
pchall
03-21-04, 01:18 PM
The full page ad in top flight newspapers that say "Honda Won the Indy 500"

The old adage is: Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday.

Steve

Think about this one.

Being the second Japanese company to win Indy doesn't mean anything. Just like no Japanese company is really interested in winning LeMans these days. The IRL is just a stepping stone to the next corporate face battle in NASCAR.
Insomniac
03-21-04, 08:36 PM
No one enters openwheel racing to sell cars. Never have, never will. They enter thoroughbred racing to showcase technology. Ferrari doesn't race in F1 to sell cars, they sell cars to race in F1. Even Honda realized that it was useless to build IRL engines in house so they badge an Ilmor.

So exactly how much more visibility does Honda get in the IRL vs ChampCar? How many races has Adrian Fernandez won in the last five years? And since when did an IRL championship mean anything? ChampCar had 2 million in attendance last year. That's more than just a few. But, then we know who you really cheer for...

I should be surprised if Honda does fall for the NASCAR trip, but

I don't know what type of businesses operate to not maximize profits. I personally think that most all care about the bottom line first. Even if they enter to only showcase technology, they are developing it for a reason. The idea that Ferrari spends all that money for nothing is crazy. You don't think they want people to associate their performance in F1.

If you would just think for one minute instead of assuming I'm trolling, a lemming, an IRL schill or whatever you'd realize I never said that Honda gets more visibility in the IRL vs. ChampCar. :shakehead I said "Honda gets more visibility in the IRL. They are bringing in people who will hopefully help them win races, Indy and a championship." First, no where does it say anything about ChampCar. Second, this discussion is about what Honda gets by bringing BR and AF to the IRL. They get more visibility in the IRL, where they race. If you would like to discuss whether Honda gets more visibility in the IRL or ChampCar that's another thing. Last year, without having the ratings in front of me, I'd say it is close. ChampCar has a lot more people at their events, but I'm sure those .5 and belows on Speed didn't help. But who cares. They're not in ChampCar and they didn't leave because of increased visibility in the IRL. They left to follow Toyota plain and simple. Also, I was comparing the number of people who watch OWR to NASCAR. There is a huge difference in those numbers whether you want to believe it or not.
Insomniac
03-23-04, 01:23 PM
racer2c: You are quick to call me out and make assumptions, but now you have nothing to say?