View Full Version : Dixon drives a "proper race car"
jonovision_man
03-26-04, 07:39 PM
Dixon had his Williams test today...
"It is very different and very cool! Especially in the first few laps, the car is so different to what I'm used to; it is just overwhelming the way it stops. I think the brakes are probably 100 times better, and the car handles a lot better. It is a lot more nimble, because you know how light the car is – probably a couple of hundred kilos lighter than a Champ Car – which makes the difference. It has a lot more grip too."
"The big thing was getting used to the speed of the car on these tyres," he added. "It is a strange feeling. Grooved tyres have totally different characteristics [to slicks]. The car is very much on the edge, but most of the time is very nimble. It feels nice to drive – it is a proper race car."
Every NASCAR, CART or IRL driver who has ever driven F1 seems to have similar remarks... :thumbup: The pinnacle.
jono
Well...I'd argue that F1 has a lot more to do with manufacturers than drivers... I bet there are a hundred or so drivers that could win a WDC in a Ferrari. But, yeah, in terms of money spent, exposure, prestige, etc, etc, nothing comes close to F1. Still, I find Formula Ford more entertaining and more 'real racing'...
Good to see Dixon back in a real race car, on a real race track... Hopefully he sticks to it, before it's too late and he has to turn left for the rest of his career.
racer2c
03-26-04, 08:27 PM
Proper race cars do not have grooved tyres.
Well...I'd argue that F1 has a lot more to do with manufacturers than drivers... I bet there are a hundred or so drivers that could win a WDC in a Ferrari. But, yeah, in terms of money spent, exposure, prestige, etc, etc, nothing comes close to F1. Still, I find Formula Ford more entertaining and more 'real racing'...
Good to see Dixon back in a real race car, on a real race track... Hopefully he sticks to it, before it's too late and he has to turn left for the rest of his career.
that would explain why rubens is always P2 in the standings and on the grid right? :rolleyes:
A few years ago I would have agreed with you, as Michael is a better driver; however, now I have to say that it's more likely Michael has a better car on that given day. No two cars are identical, and there's no doubting that Ferrari puts more resources towards Michael's than Rubens. In Malaysia, I believe it had to do with tires... That said, there are still some days where they are almost even or Rubens is ahead - and there are a lot more of those than there were when Rubens first arrived.
A few years ago I would have agreed with you, as Michael is a better driver; however, now I have to say that it's more likely Michael has a better car on that given day. No two cars are identical, and there's no doubting that Ferrari puts more resources towards Michael's than Rubens. In Malaysia, I believe it had to do with tires... That said, there are still some days where they are almost even or Rubens is ahead - and there are a lot more of those than there were when Rubens first arrived.
So now that you have confused everyone, which is it, the car or the driver?
The Ferrari's design seems to be tailored to Schumi's style and for that matter so seems the race strategy.
solpadeine
03-26-04, 11:37 PM
"It is a lot more nimble, because you know how light the car is – probably a couple of hundred kilos lighter than a Champ Car – which makes the difference. It has a lot more grip too."
I just like the fact that when he made a comparison, it was to a Champ Car. Didn't even bother trying to compare it to an IRL beast.
Insomniac
03-27-04, 12:41 AM
I just like the fact that when he made a comparison, it was to a Champ Car. Didn't even bother trying to compare it to an IRL beast.
As the saying goes: "If you don't have anything nice to say..." ;)
Speaking of comparisons, at the Trading Paint event at IMS, it was pointed out that "In NASCAR the limitation is the car, in F1, the limitation is the driver"
ilferrari
03-27-04, 10:40 AM
that would explain why rubens is always P2 in the standings and on the grid right? :rolleyes:
Rubens is almost always P2 on the grid and in the standings. I agree with Jay. Maybe 10 years ago Schumacher or Senna were going round 2 or 3 seconds a lap fatser that Patrese or Herbert or Verstappen or Lehto (or in Senna's case Andretti). The cars were clearly more difficult on the limit and spun alot, something you hardly see now, so the driver influences the order far less now. F1 definitely is a manufacturer's competition.
jonovision_man
03-27-04, 12:21 PM
I just like the fact that when he made a comparison, it was to a Champ Car. Didn't even bother trying to compare it to an IRL beast.
That's putting a brave face on it... :)
There's little to compare IRL and F1, the cars are miles apart in sophistication, not to mention ovals vs road courses. Not to mention that he was talking about the brakes... do they have those in the IRL? ;)
I agree about the grooved tires, it would be nice to get back to slicks... but they've already gained 3-4s/lap this year alone, despite some attempts to slow them down... putting slicks on would mak them even quicker. It would have to be part of a package of changes that included some new aero restrictions.
jono
Insomniac
03-27-04, 12:31 PM
That's putting a brave face on it... :)
There's little to compare IRL and F1, the cars are miles apart in sophistication, not to mention ovals vs road courses. Not to mention that he was talking about the brakes... do they have those in the IRL? ;)
I agree about the grooved tires, it would be nice to get back to slicks... but they've already gained 3-4s/lap this year alone, despite some attempts to slow them down... putting slicks on would mak them even quicker. It would have to be part of a package of changes that included some new aero restrictions.
jono
Smaller engines too.
racer2c
03-27-04, 12:33 PM
I agree about the grooved tires, it would be nice to get back to slicks... but they've already gained 3-4s/lap this year alone, despite some attempts to slow them down... putting slicks on would mak them even quicker. It would have to be part of a package of changes that included some new aero restrictions.
jono
That is a real conundrum. Slicks on the current cars would decrease lap times by what, as much as 15%. Maybe more! In order to circumvent the increased speed with slick tires, the engine or aero restriction would counteract the benefit. While, we have gotten rather used to the grooves, whenever I really focus on them, they make me cringe.
So now that you have confused everyone, which is it, the car or the driver?In F1, definately the car, apologies for confusing you. My point was that in the last few years the influence of a driver has become less and less to the point where almost anyone could win in a Ferrari. And yes, I am sure Michael has a better Ferrari than Rubens does.
nz_climber
03-27-04, 06:55 PM
Its good to hear scott can still use the brakes and knows how to turn right :D
jonovision_man
03-27-04, 07:12 PM
That is a real conundrum. Slicks on the current cars would decrease lap times by what, as much as 15%. Maybe more! In order to circumvent the increased speed with slick tires, the engine or aero restriction would counteract the benefit. While, we have gotten rather used to the grooves, whenever I really focus on them, they make me cringe.
Probably not quite 15%, but certainly they would be going faster through corners and accelerate quicker. Slicks are how Champcars got so close to F1 in laptimes at Montreal IMO.
I was reading some comments by Jacques where he said that with slicks, a bad car could be compensated for by a good driver. With grooves, there's a sweet spot and if the car's not in it, it's not in it.
jono
racer2c
03-27-04, 11:33 PM
Probably not quite 15%, but certainly they would be going faster through corners and accelerate quicker. Slicks are how Champcars got so close to F1 in laptimes at Montreal IMO.
I was reading some comments by Jacques where he said that with slicks, a bad car could be compensated for by a good driver. With grooves, there's a sweet spot and if the car's not in it, it's not in it.
jono
In the end, the grooves really haven't taken anything from F1. To me it's mostly aesthetically. I prefer the low profile, large diameter slicks of a Champ Car over the high profile, small diameter, grooved tires of F1. When watching the '94 season re-run on speed I pine for that car, and it seems like just yesterday. Sparks, helmet high, wide slicked cool mosheens!
if they give em slicks, make em wide and the car bodies wide as well to kill the straight line top speeds
TrueBrit
03-28-04, 02:53 AM
..the obvious reason for Bendoverchello's lack of pace can be explained by the weight penalty of having to carry his husbands purse in the car....
//sarcasm off//
jonovision_man
03-28-04, 08:46 AM
In the end, the grooves really haven't taken anything from F1. To me it's mostly aesthetically. I prefer the low profile, large diameter slicks of a Champ Car over the high profile, small diameter, grooved tires of F1. When watching the '94 season re-run on speed I pine for that car, and it seems like just yesterday. Sparks, helmet high, wide slicked cool mosheens!
OK, we could use some sparks... :) That does look cool.
Other than that, aesthetically, tires are the only thing wrong with F1... the cars have never looked better IMO.
jono
overlandave
03-28-04, 02:04 PM
..the obvious reason for Bendoverchello's lack of pace can be explained by the weight penalty of having to carry his husbands purse in the car....
//sarcasm off//
OMG..... LMAO..... Bend-over-chello ?! :rofl:
OK, we could use some sparks... :) That does look cool.
Other than that, aesthetically, tires are the only thing wrong with F1... the cars have never looked better IMO.
jono
i'd argue that they looked better without airboxes, with lower wider tires and wider cars as opposed to the high-power darts with steering wheels they have now
Hard Driver
03-29-04, 12:04 AM
They're the pinnicle. And there is nothing faster on a road course. Any other talk about team discrepency is unjustified criticism. A Minardi would beat a Champ Car on a road course. Still love Champ Cars, but that is a fact.
indyfan31
03-29-04, 12:19 AM
"F1 is definitely what I want to do," the 23-year-old New Zealander said prior to Sunday's NASCAR Nextel Cup race at Bristol Motor Speedway. "I would get back in the car today if I could. It was good to turn right again.
I haven't checked yet, but there must be quite a meltdown at the other racing forum. It's quite a quote from the series champ.
pinniped
03-29-04, 01:38 AM
Okay, he did better than I thought he would...I guess I'll just admit I would rather see someone get the ride who didn't defect to the IRL...
racer2c
03-29-04, 11:39 AM
They're the pinnicle. And there is nothing faster on a road course. Any other talk about team discrepency is unjustified criticism. A Minardi would beat a Champ Car on a road course. Still love Champ Cars, but that is a fact.
Dixon's test thread has digressed into ChampCars versus F1 machines and I don't think that was the intent of the originator and the discussion was more along the lines of aesthetics, not the undeniable performance advantage that F1 cars have.
As we all know, ChampCars perform the way they do to accommodate ovals. Like ChrisB has championed for years, lose the ovals, lose the weight and the gap between the two would close.
I find it funny that Dixon, the defending IRL champion chose to mention a ChampCar instead of a Backcracker.
Insomniac
03-29-04, 01:12 PM
They're the pinnicle. And there is nothing faster on a road course. Any other talk about team discrepency is unjustified criticism. A Minardi would beat a Champ Car on a road course. Still love Champ Cars, but that is a fact.
Not by that much. Give ChampCar a tire war and they will beat a Minardi. Add carbon brakes and there would be no competition.
except we dont have carbon brakes, and we dont have 900 hp engines, and we have hundreds of pounds more mass, etc etc
I don't think it's that big a deal if F1 cars are so much quicker, they are what they are, champ cars are what they are
Insomniac
03-29-04, 06:22 PM
except we dont have carbon brakes, and we dont have 900 hp engines, and we have hundreds of pounds more mass, etc etc
I don't think it's that big a deal if F1 cars are so much quicker, they are what they are, champ cars are what they are
Even with all that, we can almost be the back-markers in F1. :)
Bendoverchelloes, backcrakers...........you guys are rollin today. :D
Luv this place.
Tedminator
04-01-04, 05:25 AM
I like the narrower retro grooved tyres used by FI now :thumbup:
...but then again, a 'proper race car' to me are the pre-winged f1 beasts from the late 60s. Magnesium chassis, rivets, narrow grove tyres, no wings, not having a seatbelt was a safety feature... :gomer:
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