Another "angry" upbeat article

[Nosuchsoul]

http://champcar.autoracingsport.com/news/2004/mar/29_sulka.html

[Nosuchsoul]

With Righteous Indignation, I shall strike down my foe's! You go brother!!!!

[pkvracing12]

He is right why should anyone care about the 18th car becuase only one person wins. and we are starting to focus on something that we shouldnt and that focus is the champ car world series going under. lets just worrie and place bets on the winner of the first race and beyond we know as the champcar fan that are series maybe havent won the battle but we have won war so lets focus and rember why we like champcar, and let the other series try to hurt us but we wont take it. long live champ car racing and lets get ready to hear the turbos take off into turn 1 at long bech.!

[Nosuchsoul]

I beleive I heard earlier that the Long Beach Grand Prix contract specified that there must be 18 cars or the contract was void. At the very least I am sure that OWRS will run 18 cars because this is the jewel in the crown for us as the Indy 500 is for the IRL. The other races I am sure will be happy with 16 cars as we will watch them anyway as well as attend them. I know we are all confident of 18 cars or at the most, hopeful. But I do not think if we do manage to get only sixteen cars that the series is dead. After all even Formula 1 has it's twenty cars because Toyota decided to make the leap. After Prost and Arrows failed they would have had 18 cars, but their contracts require 20, I believe. Minardi is on life support, as is Jordan, F1 is the pinnacle of road racing, but it is conceivable that if circumstances had played out a little differently they would have had to run 16 cars or make teams run third cars. Minardi received a 4 million pound "investment" from Ecclestone to ensure they survived the season. Jordan might require one in the future too. In conclusion, I believe the smart people who run races can see that when even NASCAR has to find field fillers it is a sign of bad times, and bringing less than 18 cars is not a reason to abandon a successful series, that is why I am confident of a full season. Let's go racing!

[Insomniac]

He is right why should anyone care about the 18th car becuase only one person wins. and we are starting to focus on something that we shouldnt and that focus is the champ car world series going under. lets just worrie and place bets on the winner of the first race and beyond we know as the champcar fan that are series maybe havent won the battle but we have won war so lets focus and rember why we like champcar, and let the other series try to hurt us but we wont take it. long live champ car racing and lets get ready to hear the turbos take off into turn 1 at long bech.!

The whole point of 18 cars is contracts. Will they cancel a race if they have 17 cars, I doubt it. Can the promoter ask for money back or compensation? Absolutely. It is importnat to have 18 cars so they can try and make as much money or lose as little money as possible. While we all appreciate those guys saving CART, they aren't going to keep pouring money in with no returns. They will have 18 cars.

[Mike Kellner]

If they have 17 cars and one more is needed, it will appear. If they do not get one more entrant, one of the better off teams, possibly one of the OWRS owners, will put one more car on the grid.

mk

[Jay]

Some contract require 18 cars..however, I know in the case of the Canadian races, that simply gives the promotors (Molson) the option of cancelling the race without penalties if they wish. I doubt they'd do that, so it really is pretty meaningless there, I imagine the same goes elsewhere...

That said, contracts aside, it's hard to call a series with less than 18 cars top-level... in fact, it's hard to call it professional. It may just be one more car to run around at the back, but it's the difference between having what I'd call a small grid, and having a rather...pathetic one. It's all about perception - and having a small starting grid leaves a very bad one. Atlantic can have 10 cars and still be viable, but Champcar, the headlining event must have a complete grid. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that promoters should offer partial refunds if there aren't 18 cars, as the product has definately been lowered.

All that said (again), I am confident that OWRS will come up with 18 cars, even if it involves a few last minute cheques going from OWRS to one of the existing teams to run an extra car.

[JT265]

Some contract require 18 cars..however, I know in the case of the Canadian races, that simply gives the promotors (Molson) the option of cancelling the race without penalties if they wish. I doubt they'd do that, so it really is pretty meaningless there, I imagine the same goes elsewhere...

That said, contracts aside, it's hard to call a series with less than 18 cars top-level... in fact, it's hard to call it professional. It may just be one more car to run around at the back, but it's the difference between having what I'd call a small grid, and having a rather...pathetic one. It's all about perception - and having a small starting grid leaves a very bad one. Atlantic can have 10 cars and still be viable, but Champcar, the headlining event must have a complete grid. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that promoters should offer partial refunds if there aren't 18 cars, as the product has definately been lowered.

All that said (again), I am confident that OWRS will come up with 18 cars, even if it involves a few last minute cheques going from OWRS to one of the existing teams to run an extra car.


Good thing you weren't around to watch some of the 16 car F1 grids in the '60's. Or some of the field-fillers that paid to race junk.

[Mike Kellner]

"it's hard to call a series with less than 18 cars top-level... in fact, it's hard to call it professional. It may just be one more car to run around at the back, but it's the difference between having what I'd call a small grid, and having a rather...pathetic one."

So, you go to races for car counts? Well, we all take our own pleasures out of life.

Personally, I could care less whether or not we have an extra ride buying back-marker or not. 17 means one less Hiro wannabee in the way to me. I watch the front of the grid.

mk

[Oldtimer]

The whole point of 18 cars is contracts. Will they cancel a race if they have 17 cars, I doubt it. Can the promoter ask for money back or compensation? Absolutely. It is importnat to have 18 cars so they can try and make as much money or lose as little money as possible. While we all appreciate those guys saving CART, they aren't going to keep pouring money in with no returns. They will have 18 cars.

According to what I've heard, 16 cars need to be confirmed and on the grid at the start of the LBGP. If so, then OWRS needs to outweigh the cost of providing funds to needed team owners or paying the LBGP penalties for not having 18 cars on the grid. The catch is, is that if OWRS decides to fund the needed teams, then they have to commit to possibly funding those teams for the entire season.

OWRS needs to be in this for the long hall. I must admit that I look at racing as a business, because I've been a business owner for many years. I apoligize for the bias if my comments come across that way.

The hurdle that OWRS needs to over come is to agree to make the series a priority and to make their decisions based on that goal. That means to make their financial commitment to the series and their responsibility to their own teams a secondary commitment. With that said, not only will OWRS need to commit millions to the series, they will need to commit millions to their race teams. If you need an example, then you only need to look at Forsythe. He's footing the bill for Tracy and Patrick. The fact is, is that OWRS will be pouring millions into the series as well as their race teams for the forseeable future without a return on investment. OWRS could succeed but, odds are not in their favor. Past history proves that.

[Robstar]

OWRS could succeed but, odds are not in their favor. Past history proves that.

It's nice to see a positive attitude... :rolleyes:

[Lizzerd]

Oldtimer,

Forsythe may be "footing the bill" for two of his cars, but their sidepods will still say "Indeck". He can build B2B relationships on that and he is worth a couple billion $ anyway. He's a racer, and loves racing. It's a rich man's hobby for him. He's already lost millions, so why do you think he isn't prepared to invest millions more anticipating a positive ROI? Please chill out or go back to TF.

[skidmarks]

The fact is, is that OWRS will be pouring millions into the series as well as their race teams for the forseeable future without a return on investment.

Tough to not see past your nose.


fact - a concept whose truth can be proved

[scanman]

According to what I've heard, 16 cars need to be confirmed and on the grid at the start of the LBGP. If so, then OWRS needs to outweigh the cost of providing funds to needed team owners or paying the LBGP penalties for not having 18 cars on the grid.
Hey, just like 33...it's only a number, right??

[RichK]

Hey, just like 33...it's only a number, right??

:laugh:

[Oldtimer]

Oldtimer,

Forsythe may be "footing the bill" for two of his cars, but their sidepods will still say "Indeck". He can build B2B relationships on that and he is worth a couple billion $ anyway. He's a racer, and loves racing. It's a rich man's hobby for him. He's already lost millions, so why do you think he isn't prepared to invest millions more anticipating a positive ROI? Please chill out or go back to TF.


No where in my post did I say Forsythe wasn't prepared to spend his money. I do have some reservations because of the fact that he brought in a sponsered driver in Lavin, instead of letting one of the underfunded teams have this advantage. By doing so, would bring stability and credibility to his commitment to the series. It would also let the team owners know he was commited to their cause.

I don't post at TF. As you can tell on some of my "Quote" posts that I'm not very "forum Literate".

[Oldtimer]

It's nice to see a positive attitude... :rolleyes:

I realize that my posts are pesimistic in nature. I've seen where this series has been and I've seen where this series is today and how it got there. The leadership over the last several years have made very poor decisions. You could just say that I'm a little gun shy when it comes to the new leadership.

[Lizzerd]

A lot of people would agree with you that the leadership has made some poor decisions in the past few years. On the other hand, I think the typical attitude here is optimisitic, rather than pestimistic (sic).

[Oldtimer]

Hey, just like 33...it's only a number, right??

No. Wrong. The difference is, is that if OWRS doesn't have 16 cars on the grid at LB then OWRS either pays a penalty or gets the race cancelled. If the I500 dosn't have 33 cars on the grid then the race goes on without penalty or a threat if canceling the race.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that OWRS will have 16 or more cars on the grid at LB.