Autocross noob

[Dirty Sanchez]

Decided that if I don't track my S4 this spring/summer I may have to officially change my name to Sally Wusswagon. So I decided to sign up with the local Audi club chapter and run their first autocross event coming up April 17... at the TireRack in South Bend.

My expectations are pretty low. My goal is to just learn how to drive my car towards the limit more effectively... although I'm aware this could be habit forming.

Having never done it I can't speak with any authority on its effectiveness but there is a handicapping system they use to level the competition... basically, for every aspect of your car (including modifications) you are awarded points. How these points affect your times is still a mystery to me. Looks like I just have a 9 point car (for the V8 4.2) with no other performance mods. R-compound tires are 7 points... as an example.

1.8T (150hp)
1.8T (180hp)
1.8T (225hp)
2.8 v6
3.0 v6
2.7TT
5 cyl. 2.2 liter 10v NA
5 cyl. 2.1 liter 10v turbo
5 cyl. 2.3 liter 20v NA
5 cyl. 2.2 liter 20v Turbo
8 Valve N/A Any 1.8 or 2.0
16 Valve N/A 1.8 and 2.0
VR6 (all) / VR6 (12V)
VR6 (24V)
4.2 V8
TDI
S Car
Chip (turbo) Any Turbo Except 180HP/225HP 1.8T
Chip (turbo) 1.8T 180HP/225HP only
Chip (N/A)
Chip (S/C)
Chip (TDI)
Header / Downpipe Other Than Factory
Intake Other Than Drop-In Air Filter
Exhaust (Turbo)
Exhaust (N/A)
Camshaft(s)
Intercooler Other Than Factory
Displacement increase
Turbo or S/C upgrade Upgrade or Replacement
Head work Port / Polish / Bigger Valves
Non-Sport Package
Spring / Shock
Coilovers
Sway Bars
Chassis Stiffening Strut Braces, Etc.
Roll Cage / Roll Bars
Camber Plates/Adj. Control Arms
Brake Upgrade 1 Inch Larger Than Stock Rotors or Multi-piston Calipers
Automatic Transmission Includes Tiptronic (Does Not Include CVT)
Differential Upgrade or Replacement
Non AWD Front Trak / RWD
R-Compound Tires
Weight Reduction Tech Inspector Discretion
Clutch Upgrade
Tire Upgrade 20+mm Wider than Factory

Thought I'd just go ahead and post about this and see if ya'll had any words of advice or encouragement. I think there are a few racer/autocrossers on here, so I'd be interested to here your thoughts.

Word. :thumbup:

[RichK]

I started out autocrossing, then moved into road racing. They are very different animals, for sure! A classic racing line isn't always the fastest way around an Auto-X course, depending on the car.

Developing your memory is important. Walking the course and memorizing stuff is important, as is remembering what you did right/wrong from the last run. Take notes when you get in from a run, and go over them right before the next one. Draw a course map for your notes.

Ask around about air pressures for your car.

Bring lots of water & snacks (IMPORTANT!).

You'll have a great time, there are always tons of nice people & the atmosphere is very friendly. Good luck!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Thanks for the tips. Good stuff :thumbup:

At some stage, I plan on taking the car out onto a proper track (most likely Gingerman) but want to get my feet wet with some autocrossing first...

I mainly just want to learn how to drive my car better.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Hmm, thats a wierd classification system. Must be that way because its all Audi/VWs. Basically why it is done that way is to determine handicaps. With the SCCA classification system, each class has a certain PAX level assigned to it. For example, my class (E Stock) is .804. A street tire class (STS) where more mods are allowed but R-compound tires aren't would have the PAX rating of (.791). So if the STS driver did a 50.3 second lap, his PAX is 39.787. I would have to do a lap time of 49.486 or faster in order to beat his handicapped time. I'm assuming that similar handicaps will be used with this autocross.

I've never driven the Tire Rack facility but I saw it from the highway on my way to Road America in '02 and it looks very nice. Should be much more fun than the cramped venues I have to run in here in NE Ohio.

Aside from what Rich K said, there are a few other things to remember about autocross. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the lower levels, its about 99% driver and 1% car. I may be beating up on STis and 350Zs and turbo Civics at a local level, but those same cars prepped to the max with experienced drivers at a national event would kill me. The easiest way I can think of to explain how to go fast autocrossing is that fast lap times are about how quickly you can get back on the power (under control of course) coming out of corners. This is something I had to learn the hard way, because I was constantly overdriving the car my first few events. Think about when you come into the corner, is it worth braking late an extra 20 feet or so into the turn, ruining your entry and exit, and then losing a potential 5 mph or so all the way through the next fast section? When you come to any slaloms where you are given a choice of which way to go at the first cone, you will usually want the one that gives you the best opportunity to carry the most speed through it and into the next section.

Lots of air pressure is good. You'd be amazed at how even something as minor as dropping 1 psi in the front can make the difference between an out of control car and the one that is at the top of the time sheets.

The first run will feel so exciting, you'll feel like it was the most fun you've ever had in your car, and then you hear the lap time and the thrill goes away when you realize that you are eight seconds off the pace. :saywhat: But, you have many more runs to get quicker, and it the seconds start melting away on the second, third, etc. runs. Its those final tenths and thousandths that are the killer. Don't ask how I know. ;)

Also, while many club racers who have never done it tend to look down at autocross, it is a very valuable driving exercise. Kinda like karting is to formula cars. T.C. Kline once said that all good autocrossers become good road racers, but not all good road racers become good autocrossers. If you need any more proof, just look at Peter Cunningham, Hurley Haywood, Peter Gregg, Shauna Marinus, etc...

[RichK]

Yeah, autocrossing is a great first step before getting onto a racetrack. You'll get used to alot of little things that can distract you at a racetrack, like going through tech, registering, getting to your grid area on time, finding a somewhat-clean porta-potty, etc.

[edit] - I posted while SeanO was posting. I'm not implying that auto-X is a stepping stone by any means. I knew I wanted to road race, so I look back as using Auto-X as a starting point. The dedicated autocrossers blow my mind at how talented they are, it's a sport many people stay in for a lifetime becuase it is so cool, and difficult to master. [edit]

By the time you've done some autocrossing, you'll feel at home in a racing environment. The next step towards road racing, if that's what you want to do, is to do a trackday school like N.A.S.A. (http://www.nasaproracing.com), where you start in a learning group (no passing in corners), with an instructor watching over you and giving you tips.

You are about to embark on the coolest thing of all time, let me tell you. Whether it's an autocross, track day or road race, just sitting in your car with 1 minute until you go out on track...the only thing you can hear is your breathing in your helmet; it's an awesome feeling.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Rich, I wasn't referring to you as one of those who look down on autocross. Obviously you have alot of respect for autocrossers, but I've heard stories from members in my region who have gone to SCCA meetings and the banquets only to hear jokes and bad treatment directed towards the "parking lot racers". This is why my SCCA region lost their Solo II program, an independent group started a new organization and almost everyone involved with the NEOhio Solo II Board jumped ship to this new group.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Word... slow in, fast out... smooth like. ;) That's what I'll shoot for. Yeah... this is an Audi only event (1 of 6) which probably explains the funky handicapping system. I've talked to a few other doods (one of which is my service advisor at Laurel Audi--ch-ching :gomer: ) about trying the SCCA thing. I'll guess I'll just have to wait and see how much I like it and take it from there.

No real concerns (yet!) about this turning into something really serious... I don't think I'll ever want to replace my weekends at some track, having beers and watching the pros do it.

btw...my 235/40-18 contis are pegged at 36psi... guess I'll ask around to see what changes I should make to that.

thanks for the responses... very helpful :thumbup:

[JT265]

Dunno who's playbook SeanO' s been reading, :D but between him & Rich you're in good hands.

Tire pressures are key. And remember, in fast, out faster.

Oh, and a jar of nitrous disguised as a fire bottle never hurt either. ;)

[RacinM3]

Like RichK, I started out autocrossing, then went to race tracks for schools, then racing. I learned things autocrossing that helped immensely with the transition to race tracks, like pressures, weight transfer, slow in/fast out, etc. All apply directly to the race track.

I won't try to give you too much advice, the others have done it already. Just try to have fun, and watch what the faster competitors are doing differently than the slower guys. I haven't autocrossed in a long time, since racing takes up every spare minute (and dollar). I did go to that BMW Ultimate Drive deal a couple years back...where they had 330i's and 323i's....they had a little autocross course set up, and it was a blast to drive.....I got fast time of the group! :gomer:

[Sean O'Gorman]

I learned things autocrossing that helped immensely with the transition to race tracks, like pressures, weight transfer, slow in/fast out, etc. All apply directly to the race track.

Good point, but when I think of what can be learned from autocross, the thing that sticks out in my mind is driver versality. An autocrosser usually only gets 3-8 runs on a course, so the good ones that move to road racing have already dealt with learning a course in a short period of time, dealing with changing track conditions, and properly setting up a race car with minimal amount of track time.

Crapus, once you get hooked you'll definitely want to get more serious about it. If you go to the Cleveland GP and aren't too hungover the next morning, you should come autocross with my series on the 4th, we race maybe 10 minutes away from downtown.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Crapus, once you get hooked you'll definitely want to get more serious about it. If you go to the Cleveland GP and aren't too hungover the next morning, you should come autocross with my series on the 4th, we race maybe 10 minutes away from downtown.Appreciate the invite but I'll be in France... at Magny-Cours to be exact. Doing what I do best. :beer: :f1: :D

[Cam]

Appreciate the invite but I'll be in France... at Magny-Cours to be exact. Doing what I do best. :beer: :f1: :D

BASTIGE! ;)

[Dirty Sanchez]

:bump:

I think we'll be jamming around this little track. I also talked to a guy that autocrossed an S4 (sedan) somewhere in SCCA KY region... finished 3rd out of 56 cars... and 1st on the PAX index (24.105... 2nd place was 25.111) and even ran on the OEM Contis :eek: :thumbup:

Not saying I'll be able to do that, obviously... just that the machine is sweet ;)

Says he was running 40/37 psi on a sealed surface. Does that sound about right?

http://www.sbrscca.org/solo/TTR_test_track/TestTrack400.jpg

[cartgal]

OK, so maybe there's nothing in this article for you, Crapus, but it was quite a coinkey-dink that the Wash. Post featured an autocross article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61124-2004Apr8.html) in its "Weekend" section. Now I've really got the bug. I've done a day out at Summit Point Raceway, and come nowhere close to being halfway decent. But what an absolute blast!!! I just may have to give autocross a try. After I get the car tuned up and new tires.....

Enjoy!

[JT265]

Sweet looking track C! :thumbup:

40/37 sounds about right, but will depend on track temp. and how much understeer you'll want.

[Sean O'Gorman]

For those who do not wish to register:

Beat the Clock

By Dallas Hudgens
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 9, 2004; Page WE32


Jim Howard is doing 50 mph in a FedEx Field parking lot, an automotive feat that might seem unimaginable to anyone who has ever been mired in traffic after a Redskins game. But there's no football on this Sunday afternoon, only driving, as the Washington D.C. Region of the Sports Car Club of America (WDCR-SCCA) is holding an autocross event that has attracted more than 200 drivers.



Autocross, also called Solo, is a driving competition that emphasizes skill rather than horsepower. Drivers don't go wheel-to-wheel. Instead, they compete against the clock on a course marked with traffic cones. Hairpins, sweeping curves and slalom areas are all part of the action, and two-second penalties are given for each downed cone. The daylong events, which cost about $25 to enter and give competitors three to four cracks at the course, attract both male and female drivers. The ages range from 5 to 80, with the youngest competitors taking their runs in go-carts.

The assembled cars run the gamut in both price and appearance. Everything from Porsches, Corvettes and Mini Coopers to vintage Barracudas and homemade open-wheel racers are on display. All are parked in the adjacent lot before the action starts, awaiting their turns on the course.

Howard, who is the safety steward for the event, is making the day's initial course run in his new Pontiac GTO. He launches his car past the start line, which engages the official clock, and the attack on Parking Lot F begins. For the next 60 seconds, Howard's arms and feet are in constant motion: turning the wheel, braking, accelerating. The course, just under a mile in length, offers challenge after challenge and nothing that even resembles a long straightaway. A left turn leads into a right turn and then a stretch of slalom cones. Designed so that top speeds remain near highway limits, the course is simply one extended challenge of car control.

Out of breath after the run, Howard, 37, sheds his helmet and okays the course for the competitors. The first official runs soon begin, with cars lining up at the start and then taking off at approximately 20-second intervals.

"Autocross is 90 percent driver skill," Howard says. "The way these courses are set up, you can't make up a lot of time by having a powerful car. I was driving a Mustang GT the first time I raced, and I got beat by a Cavalier station wagon."

It can take a while to develop autocross skills, but that doesn't mean novices aren't welcome at the events. In fact, a routine practice at these competitions is for experienced drivers to either walk the course with newcomers or take them for a ride and show them the best way to negotiate the cones. A valid driver's license and helmet are required to enter an autocross, and all cars must pass a safety inspection. There is also the entry fee to consider, not to mention tire wear. But compared with most other forms of automotive competition, this is about as inexpensive and accessible as it gets.

The Sports Car Club of America (SCCA), which uses the word Solo to denote its autocrosses, sanctioned 1,250 events nationwide last year, attracting nearly 100,000 competitors. Locally, a number of car clubs are active in the sport. Many take part in a nine-event series organized by the Metropolitan Washington Council of Sports Car Clubs (MWCSCC). The WDCR-SCCA, which hosts one of those competitions, also has its own seven-event championship series and will host a National SCCA Solo at FedEx Field next month. The autocross season runs spring to fall.

Rob and Leigh Graham of Georgetown completed a WDCR-SCCA novice school for autocrossers the weekend before the late March FedEx Field gathering, which is a tuneup for the regular season. The husband and wife are standing in the crowded parking lot adjacent to the driving course, waiting to make their first runs in Rob's Porsche Boxster. The sport's rules allow two drivers to share the same car.

"It's a fun way to explore the limits of your car," Rob Graham says. "And I think it translates to an awareness of car control when you're driving on the street."

Leigh Graham, who learned to drive a manual transmission only a week before the autocross school, says an autocross track demands full concentration. A brief lapse can lead to a cascade of tumbling cones or even a wrong turn.

"At first, I did it to support him," she says. "Then I felt like I was learning things, and now I'm having fun. For me, it's about trusting the car. Sports cars always scared me, but this has taught me you can control them."

Brian Garfield is the novice coordinator for the WDCR-SCCA series and is also in charge of the one-day autocross schools the club holds at various times throughout the year. He estimates that 30 to 40 new drivers show up at each event. Garfield takes the group on a course walk-through before things get underway, offering pointers and general directions. The walk is important to all drivers as they're seeing the track layout for the first time.

Beginners quickly realize that autocross isn't just about driving. All drivers, novices and veterans alike, are given a work assignment to perform at some point during the day. The objective of the shared workload is to keep the event running smoothly and quickly while also lowering costs. One of the more important jobs is spotting cones that are knocked over, reporting them to the timing truck and then setting them back up again. That means standing near the course and the cars.

Autocross is not high-speed racing, but it's also not a risk-free activity. It's very important that course workers know how to perform their duties safely.

"It can be difficult because not all of the new drivers know how to work the course," Garfield says. "We recommend they attend our novice school first because it explains how to work, register and drive. But we can't accommodate everyone because the classes fill up so quickly."

Garfield's parents are both autocross competitors from way back. Craig and Jane Garfield, who live in Ellicott City, drove an Austin Mini Cooper at autocross events in the late '60s and early '70s. The couple took a lengthy break from the sport while they raised their family. But when Brian began to compete a few years ago, an idea was hatched. Now, the whole family is back in the sport, piloting a pair of new Minis. Craig Garfield is also Solo chairman of the WDCR-SCCA.

"My wife got back into it before me," he says. "She bought a Boxster and wouldn't let me drive it, so I got an Audi S4. When we heard the new Minis were coming out, Brian and I put in our order."

FedEx Field is scheduled to host eight WDCR-SCCA autocrosses this season, including the National SCCA Solo event May 29-30. The national series attracts the top autocross drivers from across the country and concludes in September at the Tire Rack Solo National Championships in Topeka, Kan.

Autocross competitions are most often held in large parking lots. A major hurdle for clubs who want to hold events is persuading lot owners to okay the contests. Enthusiasts often emphasize that their sport is a driving skills competition and not auto racing.

"We're always looking for new lots, but it isn't easy to get permission," says Eric Wong, autocross chairman for the Metropolitan Washington Council, which has seven autocrosses planned for Rosecroft Raceway in Fort Washington this season, as well as one at FedEx Field with the WDCR-SCCA.

Rafael Garces, president of the National Capital Chapter of the BMW Car Club of America, says people are learning to drive their cars more safely at autocross events. This goes back to the challenge of car control and understanding an automobile's limitations. And courses are designed to reduce, rather than exaggerate, speeds.

The BMW Car Club has two autocrosses scheduled for Prince George's Stadium in Bowie, home of the Baysox minor-league baseball team. "We encourage people to come out and learn to drive safely, to learn the car's limits and, more importantly, to learn their own limits in a safe environment," Garces says.

SCCA events are supervised by a trained safety steward, and courses must be configured so that speeds on straight sections don't exceed 60 mph for the fastest cars. The fastest sections also must be located farthest from spectators.

The WDCR-SCCA autocrosses routinely draw 250 or more competitors. Anyone who wants to enter an autocross should register ahead of time and prepare for a long day.

A driver's morning starts with registration, car inspection and work assignment. A liability waiver also must be signed. One of the more confusing aspects of autocross is figuring out which class a particular driver will enter. There are numerous car classifications broken down by model, horsepower and modifications. If drivers are unsure of their classification, an official will help them determine the proper group to enter. There is also a special classification for novices.

Since the course design is different at each autocross, all drivers take time to walk it in the morning. This is where it pays to be a quick study, capable of remembering braking points and apexes (the point in a curve that a driver wants to hit in order to maintain maximum speed).

"Our goal is to make a course that flows really well," says WDCR-SCCA course designer Greg Olsen. "We want to include a lot of different elements, such as slaloms and big sweepers, and also make sure novices can follow it easily. It's also important that the course doesn't favor a particular type of car, such as a high-powered one."

The automotive lineup at these events tends to be eclectic. Anyone who enjoys looking at cars is likely to come across a sheet metal specimen that strikes a chord. Norm Beaver of Beltsville is piloting one of the more eye-catching rides at the FedEx Field autocross, a dark green, open-wheel racer modeled after a Lotus Super Seven.

"The car's quick enough to win," Beaver says. "It's just a matter of me catching up with it."

Beaver, who finished third in his class at the SCCA nationals last year, has no trouble doing that. He hits the course and carves it up in 59 seconds, currently the fastest time of the day. His tiny race car -- street-legal by the way -- is nimble and lightning fast, carving its way through the slalom as though it were held to the pavement by a magnet.

Beaver, 54, entered his first autocross in 1969. He was driving a Plymouth Barracuda in those days. After taking a break for a few years in the '80s, he eventually got back in the sport. Now, 35 years later, he hasn't grown tired of driving -- or winning.

"It's a great release," he says. "You can't get out of the car without a big grin on your face."

SPORTS CAR CLUB OF AMERICA -- www.scca.com. The SCCA's Web site has information about its National Solo program as well as links to clubs, organizations and a novice handbook. 800-770-2055.

WASHINGTON D.C. REGION OF THE SPORTS CAR CLUB OF AMERICA -- solo.wdcr-scca.org. The club's next autocross is April 18 at FedEx Field. It counts as an event within the MWCSCC autocross series. The autocross is free to spectators. Driving starts at 9. For a season schedule and information on registration and novice schools, visit the Web site.

METROPOLITAN WASHINGTON COUNCIL OF SPORTS CAR CLUBS -- www.autocrossers.org. The council's next autocross is April 18 at FedEx Field, hosted by the WDCR-SCCA. Driving starts at 9, and the event is free to spectators. The remainder of the MWCSCC series will be at Rosecroft Raceway in Fort Washington. For more information and a full schedule, visit the Web site.

NATIONAL CAPITAL CHAPTER OF THE BMW CAR CLUB OF AMERICA -- www.nccbmwcca.org. The club's next autocross is April 17 at Prince George's Stadium in Bowie. Driving starts at 9.

Dallas Hudgens writes about all manner of fun for Weekend, from pie-eating contests to NCAA basketball pools. •


© 2004 The Washington Post Company

[Sean O'Gorman]

Says he was running 40/37 psi on a sealed surface. Does that sound about right?[/IMG]

Here is what Kumho suggests for my Victoracers, I'd imagine it would apply to any tire as well:


Generally adding air pressure in small increments (2 psi) to the tires on the end of the car that loses traction first works best. For example, if a car is understeering, add pressure to the front tires. If the car is oversteering, add pressure to the rear tires.

Sounds like a good balance given the heavy front bias of the Audi. I usually run 35F/37R, but my car obviously has a far different weight distribution than yours. Once you get the hang of it, don't be afraid to make adjustments to try and find that sweet spot.


I just may have to give autocross a try. After I get the car tuned up and new tires.....

New tires are soo overrated. ;) While I wouldn't suggest racing in a car that may be having mechanical problems, you shouldn't let tires hold you back. Theres no substitute for track time, and once you ditch the old rubber and put on new tires, it makes things so much easier.

I have about 13 more hours before I get to wake up and head to the first event of the season. I'm as excited as all hell, my front struts finally got finished (long story as to why we couldn't install them in strut assembly previously in the car), I lucked out that the first race was snowed out because I wouldn't have had my car ready in time. :cool:

Hopefully I'll do well, my race tires have seen better days but can hopefully hang on for this season, the tread is still there (moreso the fronts than the rears) but I'm concerned about how many heat cycles I've done. The struts should hopefully not be too long to get used to, they are 5 way adjustable so it should be fun to try different settings, I just hope it doesn't take too long to find out what I like. The mall we're running at I've only been to once and it was my worst result of the season, hopefully this time I can read the course like its in English, not pig Latin. :laugh:

[JT265]

Quote:
Generally adding air pressure in small increments (2 psi) to the tires on the end of the car that loses traction first works best. For example, if a car is understeering, add pressure to the front tires. If the car is oversteering, add pressure to the rear tires.

The above quote is 100% backward to what you would do in a race car. Less psi generally equals more grip, not less.

[mapguy]

I wouldn't listen to JT. The only PSI he is worried about is when he floats an air buscuit....

:gomer: :D :p

[JT265]

I GOT IT!!!!!

Kumho is from Japan, right?

<maybe being on the otehr side of the earth things work in reverse.>

:D

[JT265]

I wouldn't listen to JT. The only PSI he is worried about is when he floats an air buscuit....

:gomer: :D :p

You got me there. ;)

[RichK]

Quote:

The above quote is 100% backward to what you would do in a race car. Less psi generally equals more grip, not less.

JT, if you consider a Formula Vee a racecar (it's up for debate by many! :D ), then you are not correct in our case.

[chop456]

In Skippy school, they showed us prints of inked tires rolling over paper. The "overinflated" tires (45psi[?]) had a full contact patch, where the "correctly" inflated tires (32psi) had a contact patch about 20% smaller - missing mostly in mid-tread.


Hey, I see the TDI on that list! :D (Probably get 20% subtracted from your time :D ).

[Sean O'Gorman]

Hey, I see the TDI on that list! :D (Probably get 20% subtracted from your time :D ).

What is the penalty for having a car equipped with Fahrvergnügen?

[Sean O'Gorman]

In Skippy school, they showed us prints of inked tires rolling over paper. The "overinflated" tires (45psi[?]) had a full contact patch, where the "correctly" inflated tires (32psi) had a contact patch about 20% smaller - missing mostly in mid-tread.

The concept is correct, but the wording is wrong. A correctly inflated tire would have a full contact patch, an overinflated tire would be missing the edges, and an underinflated tire would be missing the mid-tread contact patch.

[cue music]
http://www.nbc.com/nbc/footer/tmyk/images/home_logo.jpg
[/cue music]

[JT265]

JT, if you consider a Formula Vee a racecar (it's up for debate by many! :D ), then you are not correct in our case.

I'll buy the fact that it's a racecar.

<well, sort of anyway.> ;)


:D

[JT265]

Quote:
Generally adding air pressure in small increments (2 psi) to the tires on the end of the car that loses traction first works best. For example, if a car is understeering, add pressure to the front tires. If the car is oversteering, add pressure to the rear tires.

The above quote is 100% backward to what you would do in a race car. Less psi generally equals more grip, not less.

I should follow Sean's cue and state :when starting with a properly inflated tyre:

<as opposed to tire, you understand>

[chop456]

The concept is correct, but the wording is wrong. A correctly inflated tire would have a full contact patch, an overinflated tire would be missing the edges, and an underinflated tire would be missing the mid-tread contact patch.


I mean properly inflated according to the tire manufacturer, which is what they said, and why I put it in quotes. Their idea of properly inflated is not really properly inflated, unless you like built-in understeer as a safety device. So their wording is wrong, not mine. :gomer:

[flobee1kenobi]

Developing your memory is important That is the key

Also-if you have the means, get a set of inexpensive wheels and some lo profile tires-Doesnt even have to be racing tires, just something without much sidewall. I ran a TR6 with a generic firestone brand of tire and did really well! (after I jacked the psi to 60!)

Dont beleive anything they say about finesse driving-when the light goes on-go like hell!! And have fun-thats the whole point.

Some of the cars I raced against were intresting to say the least-
VW bugs with Porche flat 6 turbos, Jettas with chevy V8's, formula fords....
One guy had a beat up 5.0L mustang with 12 in. rims and racing slicks-not much in the way of mufflers...nearly rolled it coming accross the finish!

[Dirty Sanchez]

I got a copy of the test! I'm cheatin!!!! :gomer: I see at least 3 or 4 potential "giddy-up" spots... hope they bring lotsa extra cones!!! :D

http://users.rcn.com/raudi77/LukeGiddyup.gif

Thanks for all the responses so far... especially regarding tire pressures. Even though I will make adjustments to try to optimize this I'm not all that worried about it on my first go 'round. I figure I'll be fighting the car more than I will the tires anyway. That V8 will probably be a beastie to handle round there... can't wait :thumbup:

Also found out that its not going to be Audi only. Apparently some hotshoes will be attending including a national level driver who finished 7th last year at Topeka.

SeanO... how did your event work out?

[spirit_of_99]

Now lets see if that bad wagon goes as good as it looks, Crapus. Good luck!

My pops has a brand new S4 sedan and I swear it is more fun to drive than the '01 911 that he traded in. Great car. I saw the pix of your S4 at Montrose Harbor - if you live nearby then your S4's are very close to each other...

[Sean O'Gorman]

SeanO... how did your event work out?

http://www.axtime.com/8/102

1st in class (of, um, 2), 10th in PAX and 17th overall of 72. Not what I think I could've accomplished, but it wasn't a bad day.

My biggest concern was if I could get my tires to stick, I think they handled well but I was having a harder time than usual getting the power down in slower corners. The new struts are great, I'm quickly getting the hang of how the adjustments affect handling and where I want the car to be. Of course none of that kept me from hitting cones in the stupidest places, but that'll go away once the rustiness of the offseason wears off.

I think I created a monster too. Last September I had a really good day, and after my runs some guy started talking to me asking all these questions about autocross and MR2s. Turns out I convinced him to buy an MR2, one of the best prepared E Stock MR2s in the country. Despite never having raced before, he ended up only .8 off my time, which isn't bad at all for a first timer. It doesn't hurt that hes running Hoosier slicks, much stickier rubber than I have. I think I should be able to hold him off for awhile, those tires have a short lifespan and he probably won't be willing to spend $800 a set on them (the set he was using came with the car).

Part of the fun of autocross for me lately has been working with newbies. I wasn't able to give that guy much advice since he was running during the same time I was, but I had 3 different first timers run my car last year (one who ended up 20th overall in his first event, despite not even knowing how to drive stickshift three days earlier), and I had three of my friends running either their first or second autocrosses that day. If you look at the PAX results, they ended up 20th, 24th, and 58th (Jenny was racing someone elses car, and it had awful tires), which was very respectable. It was funny riding along with them giving feedback afterwards because the difference between an MR2 on race tires and a Sentra SE-R or Integra GS-R on street tires is fairly big. "Try adjusting the pressures for more oversteer" "It has enough oversteer for a FWD!", "brake later" "if I brake any later I'll skid through the cones!". I really need to diversify the kinds of cars I autocross, after 15 events only one of them wasn't in an MR2.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Now lets see if that bad wagon goes as good as it looks, Crapus. Good luck!

My pops has a brand new S4 sedan and I swear it is more fun to drive than the '01 911 that he traded in. Great car. I saw the pix of your S4 at Montrose Harbor - if you live nearby then your S4's are very close to each other...The only other S4 I've seen in the hood was a Imola Yellow Avant... but I'm 99% sure it was just a test mule for some writer from the Sun-Times. Saw it everyday for a week and haven't seen it since... then I saw the paper's review a few days later and put 2 and 2 together.

Its a sweet car... hope your old man enjoys it as much as I am. :thumbup:

[XFT]

My Alfa was in three autocrosses last fall. :thumbup: The bad part, they were all on very wet pavement :thumdown: ... Well, it did teach me how to control every kind of slide imaginable..

[chop456]

The only other S4 I've seen in the hood was a Imola Yellow Avant... but I'm 99% sure it was just a test mule for some writer from the Sun-Times. Saw it everyday for a week and haven't seen it since... then I saw the paper's review a few days later and put 2 and 2 together.


Mateja? Lemme guess... "The seats were too hard". :gomer:

[Dirty Sanchez]

Mateja? Lemme guess... "The seats were too hard". :gomer:Nope... Dan Jedlicka :confused:

Sun-Times review (http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car16.html)

[chop456]

Nope... Dan Jedlicka :confused:

Sun-Times review (http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car16.html)

That's right. Mateja's in the Tribune. I'm a :gomer:

[spirit_of_99]

Mateja? Lemme guess... "The seats were too hard". :gomer:

Or... "too few cupholders." Mateja's a doofus.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Savage fun!!!!!!!!!!

3rd in class. Full report tomorrow or Monday... but now its time to put the hurt on some Goose Islands I have chillin'. Your advice was very useful... sincere thanks all. :thumbup:

:D :D :D

[Dirty Sanchez]

Ok... Tuesday then. :gomer:

Looooong day. Waking up at 5:30 Saturday a.m. and passing cabs full of drunk people to head the rendevouz point was a little strange (talk about role reversal!). Six or seven sweet Audi's pulled in to the Home Depot parking lot and we said our hellos, sized up each other's cars (wow) and then hit the highway to South Bend. Multi-car caravan's have a way of attracting attention I guess... luckily we slipped by Indiana's finest unnoticed. The South side caravan (of 3-4) all got nailed though... when we came barrelling down on them about a half hour outside South Bend they all signaled for us to slow down... we did taking it nice and easy, finally rolling in to TireRack about 10 deep.

Next hour or so was spent saying more hellos and getting through registration. My car was a 12 point car (for the drivetrain and because its an S-car)... this put me at the higher range of the "B" class which I'm assuming is a stock class... because I'm not running any performance mods at this stage. Whatever, I didn't really pay much attention to the competition aspect of the event, I was just focused on where I needed to be and wanted to just go out and lay down some solid runs. Improvement was my goal. Next thing I had to do before we got out there was get rid of everything inside my car... anything that could fly around inside the cabin had to go. Even floormats were taken out. Also took out the spare (figured reducing the weight as much as possible from my 3900+ lb beasty was a good idea.

After this, I participated in a very cool and informative little orientation session that they prepared for us newschoolers. As we walked the track (which was totally helpful) and listened to some of the questions and answers I realized that I knew a lot more than your typical newbie. I've done a fair bit of karting and I've even driven a single seater at Derek Daly's thingy, and with all the racing that I watch, I intuitively was able to identify "the line" as well as lock in a few trouble spots into the memory banks. Wasn't sure how I'd be able to process all this info come white-knuckle time but it was clear that I was able to "see" things right off the bat that maybe some of the others might of missed. I remember mentioning "decreasing radius" to one of the other guys there and got a really funny blank look. :D

All in there was about 50-60 cars in 6 classes (5 vw/audi classes and an open class). Those 6 classes were grouped in 3 groups... I ran in B/C and we were first up. The rotation for me went: drive, work, rest, drive, work, rest, drive, work, rest. We got 3 runs on the track for each "drive" session. Ended up with 9 total.

First time out was sooooooo much fun. I was really worried that I wouldn't even remember the course. I noticed a lot of people blowing it badly early on... and this made me think that maybe this is tougher than I thought it would be. Once I staged and got closer though I just tried to focus on my little track map printout and tried to recall my observations from the walkabout. I effin' rocked. Totally raw and herky-jerky fast in... too fast in a few spots!... but I made the entire course without munching any cones. High 57 second range. What a rush! I've never driven my car like this before so not only am I in awe of the handling and power but I realize that not only do I have to learn the track but more importantly learn the car. Instantly I knew that there was room for improvement. Too fast in here. Too much of a wuss into here. Too shallow here. Don't be afraid to use more track here. And damnit! in all the excitement and scrambling around this morning I forgot to add any air into the tires.

Second run was pretty similar... mid 57. Fixed a couple of mistakes from the previous run, but found a few new ones. I'm driving in way too hard. I thought back to what was posted here and how I should just chill the eff out and drive smoother. Last run I ran a high 55. Ok, I'm on to something here... but time to work.

The course was divided into 4 quadrants so two guys had to go out (one armed with a talkabout radio and the other with a flag) and they are responsible for identifying and picking up dropped cones, calling in penalties or dnf's for going off course or putting a tire in the grass to timing and scoring and generally just being safe. But the real value for me was watching (what turned out to be) a more experienced group in modded cars drive the track. I decided I wanted to work the first few corners as they were the probably the most difficult (3pm on the track map above). This really helped me identify where I was good and where I was bad. Seemed like everyone was clipping that apex too soon and not setting up for the right hander that followed just after, except for a couple guys. These guys were good though! Learned a lot by watching others.

So... I gotta speed this up! Sorry... if you read this far... thanks!

Took the opportunity to air up the tires to 41/37 during my rest session and I was ready to see some improvement. First time out (4th run of the day) was a 54.8. Right off the bat dropped a full second... but I was still working on making improvements. Next time out I tried too hard and went backwards 55.5. :flame: I was pissed... 6th run I got through the tricky first couple of turns really well... best yet (I was sure of it). But my run got flagged half way through and I had to stop out on the track. First time this happened to anyone today. Turned out they had a timing problem. Grrrrrr... that was the best run so far too. I knew it! I would get a re-run after the rest went through though. Last guy out in my group and I backed it up with a 54.2. :stoked:

More work (this time a different part of the track) and more rest/lunch. Didn't adjust the tires. I would have been guessing... but in hindsight I probably should have added a pound or two to the fronts because did pickup understeer in my final 3 runs. I wasn't as aware of it following my 2nd set though.

Final three runs. Technique improving... but then some dirty pool thrown into the mix? One of the other dudes from my class (didn't know that at the time) wants to take a ride (likes my car he says, wants to hear/feel the V8... can you blame him though). I oblige... and still run a 54.7... but it was a wasted run. Turns out he finished 2nd in class! 8th run is a 53.8 though. Hell yeah. I can't get any faster than that today... totally hanging it out and stunt driving through the chicanes letting the weight transfer work in my favor rather than just driving through them. Even got some thumbsup from some of the guys watching from the bleachers. Wow.

Last run. More of the same. But unbelievably, faster! 53.6. Damn. I got some pretty serious props from guys that have been doing this for a couple of seasons... on stock rubber and no mods I ran almost as quick as some of the slower dudes in class E (we're talking stage 3 turbos, statis suspension, and R compound tires).

Fastest of the day was the national level Miata driver. On slicks he ran high 49s :eek: and was smooth as silk.

Final analysis: hooked! Beers never tasted better than they did on Saturday night after we got back in town.

Pictures from the event: LINKAGE (http://www.speedgeezers.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album57)

Next event: May 23 Joliet Community College

http://www.speedgeezers.com/albums/album58/S4animation_small.gif

[Warlock!]

I just had a great day making Warlock jealous ;)
Sweet deal, dude. If I'm free on the 25th, I may just make a roll into town to check it out. Sounds like your impressive karting times aren't the fluke I thought they were :D.

Props, bruthah... :thumbup:

Warlock!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Sweet deal, dude. If I'm free on the 25th, I may just make a roll into town to check it out. Sounds like your impressive karting times aren't the fluke I thought they were :D.

Props, bruthah... :thumbup:

Warlock!
Edited the date... its on the 23rd, not the 25th. I think Tiresmoke is going to bring his WRX next time out... then head back to the city and check out Monterrey, MX on his TiVo. :thumbup:

I'm trying to convince Vinnie to bring the sCamaro too :gomer:

[Sean O'Gorman]

we did taking it nice and easy, finally rolling in to TireRack about 10 deep.

Why do I have this imagine in my head of a reenactment of the car formations from Fast & Furious, but with old farts in Audis and VWs? :rofl:

Sounds like you did really well. Just wait until you are tearing your hair out for weeks on end trying to find those last few tenths to win. :)

[Dirty Sanchez]

Why do I have this imagine in my head of a reenactment of the car formations from Fast & Furious, but with old farts in Audis and VWs? :rofl:I'm not sure of your exact age dood... but of those ten, I'd say there were only a couple older than me (31) and most were in their early-mid 20s... and I'm sure most of them would drink you under the table after handing you your ass on the track :laugh:

[Sean O'Gorman]

31? Wow, I figured you were 50 or something...it must be the speedgeezers in the URL you linked that made me think that. Or maybe I'm thinking of Spicoli. :laugh:

You are probably right too on the drinking part, I'm a horrible disgrace to my Irish heritage.

[Napoleon]

but I've heard stories from members in my region who have gone to SCCA meetings and the banquets only to hear jokes and bad treatment directed towards the "parking lot racers".

Personally I call you guys "coneheads" ;)



JT, if you consider a Formula Vee a racecar (it's up for debate by many! :D ), then you are not correct in our case.

:thumbup:

[JoeBob]

Crapus,
Here's all you need to know about Sean, wrapped up nicely into a single thread: http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3343

:D

[Dirty Sanchez]

Crapus,
Here's all you need to know about Sean, wrapped up nicely into a single thread: http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3343

:D"Wuss" :rofl: