View Full Version : Here come the 8 rows of 3, and...
...one more car!
SPEED Article (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/10467/)
...The 88th Indianapolis 500 is scheduled for Sunday, May 30 at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
The teams combined to enter a total of 25 cars, including backup cars...
Brickman
04-01-04, 02:11 PM
...one more car!
SPEED Article (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/10467/)
Yep
racer2c
04-01-04, 02:33 PM
How Mumbles can claim growth in his miserable experiment is practically criminal. And how morons can support and defend this court jester is another great mystery.
Tony isn't sure whether a Nextel Cup car is faster or slower than his own Indy Cars, and people roll their eyes when it is suggested he'll replace the open wheel cars with tin tops at the 500. It's in the works.
Thanks for fixing the sport Tony! You've done wonders!
Its just a number, or so he says.
theunions
04-01-04, 03:02 PM
No, it's 25 cars EXCLUDING backup cars - 56 chassis total as of yesterday. And bear in mind that "additional entries are expected to arrive in the next few days," with Rahal and Access among the missing. As long as it was postmarked by midnight yesterday the entry is valid.
Madmaxfan2
04-01-04, 03:02 PM
Be quiet. Mumbles world is all right. He controls everything, and that is all that counts. His advisiors tell him that all the time. They get fired if they tell the truth. Remember, Mumbles himself said that 33 is just a number
racer2c
04-01-04, 03:46 PM
How do 25 drivers drive 56 cars?
Put your drills down and grab your helmets Racing Dentist's of the world!!!!
you have got to be kidding...
tell me this is some sort of April fool's gag
you have got to be kidding...
tell me this is some sort of April fool's gag
It's all part of the latest version of the vision.
fourrunner
04-01-04, 09:56 PM
After practice & Time trials they should be down to a solid 20 car field, with another 5 or six cars held together with duct tape & bailing wire! :eek:
There will be a Sandy Patti, Florence Henderson, Jim Nabors Concert for the Kids on "Bump Day" :thumbup:
There will be a Sandy Patti, Florence Henderson, Jim Nabors Concert for the Kids on "Bump Day"
Not familiar with the 1st one, but toss in the old cougar held together with safety pins and bondo and the remains of old gomer (pulse included?), with Mumbles as the MC, and you have the making of a Jerry Springer Extravaganza.
:D
RobGuru
04-01-04, 10:33 PM
There will be a Sandy Patti, Florence Henderson, Jim Nabors Concert for the Kids on "Bump Day" :thumbup:
They're gonna have to put these folks in the cars to round out the field!
:eek:
What I find absolutely apalling about all of this is the attitude of the Lemmings that reaching 33, provided they do, will actually be some kind of great accomplishment by the Earl.
No it is not.
It is evidence of failure.
From 1947 on the issue of whether or not there would be enough entries for 33 starters was, well, never an issue. It was a given that there would be more entries than starting spots. In the last two years of the EVIL CART era, for instance, 45 and 44 different driver/car combos attempted.
The difference between then and now is not the economy. Prior to Tony saving Indy, ya run what ya brung. The rules were published and if your car passed tech you tried to qualify. There was no pre-approved this or mandated that. Engines did not have to be badged and there was no such thing as an "approved supplier". And this includes the CART era.
The reason why it will everything they can do to get 33 cars on grid this year has to do with the IRL rules and nothing to do with the economy. In 1982 unemployment climbed to 10% and yet there were enough entries at Indy to field a whole second field. No, the reason why they can barely scrape up 33 combos is because of supply rules of the IRL, specificly the engine badging rules and approvied supplier rules vis a vie chassis and engines. Unlike every other era in Indy history, there is no relatively low-buck alternative option for Indy like the stock blocks that the one-off teams can use. Every single car that starts this year will be powered by a factory leased engine. The irony of this cannot be understated.
If IRL fans want to know why there are no longer Indy-only one off teams, that often bumped the full-time regulars out of the field, they need to look only as far as the IRL supply rules. And then they need to ask themselves if preapproved hardware and participation ONLY by approved suppliers are just one of the traditions that made Indy great.
Racewriter
04-01-04, 11:33 PM
What I find absolutely apalling about all of this is the attitude of the Lemmings that reaching 33, provided they do, will actually be some kind of great accomplishment by the Earl.
No it is not.
It is evidence of failure.
From 1947 on the issue of whether or not there would be enough entries for 33 starters was, well, never an issue. It was a given that there would be more entries than starting spots. In the last two years of the EVIL CART era, for instance, 45 and 44 different driver/car combos attempted.
The difference between then and now is not the economy. Prior to Tony saving Indy, ya run what ya brung. The rules were published and if your car passed tech you tried to qualify. There was no pre-approved this or mandated that. Engines did not have to be badged and there was no such thing as an "approved supplier". And this includes the CART era.
The reason why it will everything they can do to get 33 cars on grid this year has to do with the IRL rules and nothing to do with the economy. In 1982 unemployment climbed to 10% and yet there were enough entries at Indy to field a whole second field. No, the reason why they can barely scrape up 33 combos is because of supply rules of the IRL, specificly the engine badging rules and approvied supplier rules vis a vie chassis and engines. Unlike every other era in Indy history, there is no relatively low-buck alternative option for Indy like the stock blocks that the one-off teams can use. Every single car that starts this year will be powered by a factory leased engine. The irony of this cannot be understated.
If IRL fans want to know why there are no longer Indy-only one off teams, that often bumped the full-time regulars out of the field, they need to look only as far as the IRL supply rules. And then they need to ask themselves if preapproved hardware and participation ONLY by approved suppliers are just one of the traditions that made Indy great.
Well said, Dave. Of course, without the badged engines, they can't charge the Tony Tax for participation.
Brickman
04-01-04, 11:59 PM
Dave has been spot on on the subject of engine leases for quite some time. Dave's House of Honda was a classic.
Well said, Dave. Of course, without the badged engines, they can't charge the Tony Tax for participation.
And what angers me even more is that the Lemmings, those who claim to revere the traditions of Indy, look right past the fact that the Millers, Novis, Offies, Cosworths, Judds etc. didn't need no stinkin' badges. If Indy was run the way it now, the great cars that are now part of Indy and auto racing lore never would have been allowed to run.
Just imagine Lou Moore not being able to run his Blue Crown Specials because his chassis wasn't pre-approved and produced by a league sanctioned supplier.
Imagine Leo Goosen not being to run his latest engine creation because he couldn't find a manufacturer to badge it.
The more I think about what Indy is now, the more sick I get so I'll stop.
Dave has been spot on on the subject of engine leases for quite some time. Dave's House of Honda was a classic.
And remember, Brickman, when they said it would never be done? I remember the Lemmings telling me that the IRL would never allow such a model.
Dave's House of Honda Horsepower wasn't me trying to be funny. It was what history and how I know big time auto racing works told me was going to happen. If lil' ol' me sitting in front of a computer was able to figure out how to totally circumvent the IRL supply rules and make a mockery out of the spirit of the rules, you had to figure that guys who make a lot more money than me working for Toyota and Honda could have figured it out too.
Lemmings can accuse me of a lot of things. Not knowing my sheyut isn't one of them.
(BTW: RW and Brickman are not included in my references to Lemmings. They are anything but)
And to use Dave's thoughts as a springboard, I find it particularly appalling when someone suggests that the IRL has become CART II. As Dave points out, the last two years of the EVIL CART era there were 45 and 44 driver/car combos. For all of CART's problems, one thing it never did was tarnish Indy. Indy flourished during the CART era.
Jag_Warrior
04-02-04, 01:20 AM
Run the NeckCar stockers and make it a race the Average Joe Sixpack can care about (again).
As Dave points out, the last two years of the EVIL CART era there were 45 and 44 driver/car combos.
Heck, in 1989, 16 drivers went home without qualifying, and the economy wasn't exactly going great guns that year either.
But no really, Indy hasn't been diminished :shakehead
Jervis Tetch 1
04-02-04, 02:06 AM
Those doctors of spin (or perhaps maybe propaganda's a better word) will continue to turn a blind eye and deaf ear on everything and put into words and phrases that getting 33 in this year was a danged great accomplishment, much like Dave L said in his post.
After Dave get's done puking, I'd like the sack and spill my guts.
Hey for what it's worth. I'm very good friends with a writer who was at the Speedway during it's media blitz last week. He was standing next to TG in the food line and my friend remarked to me that TG never said a word, yet the smugness and arrogance just oozed out of him like (in my friend's words) a "righteous poltergeist." He felt most unwelcome there.
I will not mention my friend's name because I don't want to invade his privacy, but also because I don't want to hinder in any way his job of reporting. I remember an SI reporter getting banned (temporarily) in '99 because his magazine had the temerity to run pics of the Charlotte tragedy. Something tells me that if TG were to get wind of what my friend said he would ban him.
DjDrOmusic
04-02-04, 02:15 AM
No, it's 25 cars EXCLUDING backup cars - 56 chassis total as of yesterday. And bear in mind that "additional entries are expected to arrive in the next few days," with Rahal and Access among the missing. As long as it was postmarked by midnight yesterday the entry is valid.
Everything I have read so far, including the SPEED article that is quoted in this thread, has said 25 cars INCLUDING backups. Where are you coming up with 56?? I know that a few will show up in the mail, but I seriously doubt 56 will be there, IMO.
Brickman
04-02-04, 02:51 AM
And remember, Brickman, when they said it would never be done? I remember the Lemmings telling me that the IRL would never allow such a model.
Dave's House of Honda Horsepower wasn't me trying to be funny. It was what history and how I know big time auto racing works told me was going to happen. If lil' ol' me sitting in front of a computer was able to figure out how to totally circumvent the IRL supply rules and make a mockery out of the spirit of the rules, you had to figure that guys who make a lot more money than me working for Toyota and Honda could have figured it out too.
Lemmings can accuse me of a lot of things. Not knowing my sheyut isn't one of them.
(BTW: RW and Brickman are not included in my references to Lemmings. They are anything but)
You were simply trying to enlighten and educate. Good solid discussion about what is a cornerstone issue. I was looking for it earlier because I thought it was a TF post, couldn't find it. Oh well...
Brickman
04-02-04, 03:05 AM
Those doctors of spin (or perhaps maybe propaganda's a better word) will continue to turn a blind eye and deaf ear on everything and put into words and phrases that getting 33 in this year was a danged great accomplishment, much like Dave L said in his post.
After Dave get's done puking, I'd like the sack and spill my guts.
Hey for what it's worth. I'm very good friends with a writer who was at the Speedway during it's media blitz last week. He was standing next to TG in the food line and my friend remarked to me that TG never said a word, yet the smugness and arrogance just oozed out of him like (in my friend's words) a "righteous poltergeist." He felt most unwelcome there.
I will not mention my friend's name because I don't want to invade his privacy, but also because I don't want to hinder in any way his job of reporting. I remember an SI reporter getting banned (temporarily) in '99 because his magazine had the temerity to run pics of the Charlotte tragedy. Something tells me that if TG were to get wind of what my friend said he would ban him.
I didn't recall the article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/motorsports/news/1999/05/04/ms0510/), but do recall the poor choice of pictures. Fans aren't suppose to die. It's plain and that simple.
As far as TG... he needs a makeover so bad it's not even funny. At Phoenix he proudly rode around on his Segway seemingly towering over all he surveyed.
Well, JT, one mans "righteous poltergeist" is another man's deluded, arrogant stuttering half-wit.
But sadly your friend is correct in his interpretation.
Hey guys, lay off. :mad:
It's the quality of the Indy field that counts now, not how many try and qualify. We don't need no stinkin Mallards or Millers muddling up the back rows and as for the Novi's? Big deal, they never won at Indy cause they couldn't last 500 miles. So what if they sounded cool. I'll take a factory leased rev-limited Japanese drone mobile over a Granatelli whoosh wagon anyday. Who needs creativity or innovation anyway? It's the IRL baby and Tony's in charge. :gomer:
Madmaxfan2
04-02-04, 09:58 AM
This whole thread proves that "Mumbles" doesn't have a clue. The only attributes that describe him are not qualities benefiting a leader, unless that includes people who inherited thier"kingdoms". Arrogence, pettyness, revenge minded are not positive traits, yet they describe TG. Journalists who really love the sport must now detest the month of May.
Big show of hands of those of us who, prior to Tony saving Indy, would look over the final entry list and try to speculate on who would make the field. Remember those feel good stories about the small one-off teams that no one gave a chance to at the beginning of the month making the race?
Good thing Tony fixed not only that problem, but also the issue of those with a different idea of how to make a car go fast showing up with their creation and trying to qualify it. Too bad the IRL wasn't around when, say, Smokey Yunick was entering cars. I mean, his one of a kind creations were not only available to all, but they didn't come from approved league suppliers.
The Indy Racing League: Preserving Indy traditions since 1994.
No really, it's because of the economy.
That's why in 1974, when the country was in the middle of its worst recession to date since WWII, 10 car/driver combos went home without making the race.
racer2c
04-02-04, 11:55 AM
Interesting commentary. But, I have mixed feelings, or rather old lingering habits being hard to break, in that many of those small Indycentric teams that helped make Indy, 'Indy', are the same ones who believed in Tony's first vision, thus becoming the hated IRL from my CART fan perspective. In retrospect, I find I have some empathetic feelings for those who fell for Tony's initial BS.
No really, it's because of the economy.
That's why in 1974, when the country was in the middle of its worst recession to date since WWII, 10 car/driver combos went home without making the race.
C'mon Dave. Let's not stretch the truth THAT far. My understanding, and straight from IMS no less, is that the 10 that went home had to because there wasn't enough fuel to run them in quals.
<there. Did I do good Mumbles?> :rolleyes: ;)
No really, it's because of the economy.
That's why in 1974, when the country was in the middle of its worst recession to date since WWII, 10 car/driver combos went home without making the race.
Turn 13 is calling you out on this over at wilkeville. :laugh: :rolleyes:
Boycott, my ass.
I've still been renewing my J stand seats though I think I'm passing this year on going and may just let the seats go (who cares, decent seats are still available right now). I just don't care anymore. I have no interest in the earl and the complete lack of excitement the race generates anymore has made the last couple years attendance seem more out of habit than anything. At least in 2000 - 2002 I had our guys to root for. (BTW, I didn't go from 97 - 99).
The raceday excitement is gone, the build up to the day in May is gone. Everything is gone. If they ran the cabs next Memorial day I couldn't care less. Everything I loved that race for is history.
Turn 13 is calling you out on this over at wilkeville. :laugh: :rolleyes:
Boycott, my ass.
The boycott crapola is his most convenient cut n paste.
:gomer:
The boycott crapola is his most convenient cut n paste.
:gomer:
I saw the post. I think he has a macro that he simply runs with his stock response.
Brick
<<<<At Phoenix he proudly rode around on his Segway seemingly towering over all he surveyed.>>>
This pretty much says it all..... :shakehead
Turn 13 is calling you out on this over at wilkeville. :laugh: :rolleyes:
Boycott, my ass.
That must have been one pretty powerful boyott to still affect the race 8 years later. Since 1995, its been in constant decline. No bump day last year and the very real probablity of a short field this year. And to date no one at IMS or the IRL has taken steps to change the downward course its on.
Blaming CART teams for TG's actions is rich. But I guess they have to blame someone.
Turn 13 is calling you out on this over at wilkeville. :laugh: :rolleyes:
Boycott, my ass.
Tokyo Rose lives on. Gotta admire his spunk tho'. He's been bitchslapped at every forum on the 'net with the exception of his own, and he still comes back with that same old drivel.
Turn 13 is calling you out on this over at wilkeville. :laugh: :rolleyes:
Boycott, my ass.
http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloads/cj_33904.jpg
My dad asked me last week if I wanted to go to the Indy 500. Figures my sister might be able to find tickets. My reply.
Why? No one I want to see races there.
Why do we need to ask my sister to find tickets. You can buy them firsthand from the ticket booth.
I don't want to give money to TG.
There won't be 33 cars.
I already had plans to go fishing with my brother-in-law.
He didn't understand. :shakehead
Brickman
04-02-04, 10:00 PM
Brick
<<<<At Phoenix he proudly rode around on his Segway seemingly towering over all he surveyed.>>>
This pretty much says it all..... :shakehead
I like a CEO like Dave (http://www.wendys.com/dave/flash.html)
IMHO perception of the public is oh so important, it instills confidence in the product.
sundaydriver2
04-02-04, 10:55 PM
I'm not an Indy historian but I do remember the races from about 1968 and on.
My question is about cars that are entered vs. back ups. More to the point, what are the odds that the Indy 497 will have less than 33 cars this year??
racer2c
04-02-04, 11:00 PM
I'm not an Indy historian but I do remember the races from about 1968 and on.
My question is about cars that are entered vs. back ups. More to the point, what are the odds that the Indy 497 will have less than 33 cars this year??
I'm not an IRL car counter, but just scanning the various forums, they will probably manage 30 to 33 cars.
No Bump Day as is the New Tradition.
sundaydriver2
04-02-04, 11:06 PM
With all the back peddling that the Idiotgrandson has done after he said 33 is just a number, I'm sure his one brain cell understands that there needs to be 33 cars in the field.
I wonder how much it will cost him?
"I wonder how much it will cost him?"
Well, it's safe to say that he won't be behind the 8-ball.
But only cause he won't have enough money to buy one for a while.
:D
Racewriter
04-03-04, 10:50 AM
Big show of hands of those of us who, prior to Tony saving Indy, would look over the final entry list and try to speculate on who would make the field. Remember those feel good stories about the small one-off teams that no one gave a chance to at the beginning of the month making the race?
:::raises hand:::
Heck, a lot of those teams were my biggest reason to be interested in Indy some years, and some of those same teams were my reason to be interested in the IRL. Now, they're gone, and the faithful claim they were awful anyway and weren't needed.:mad:
:::raises hand:::
Heck, a lot of those teams were my biggest reason to be interested in Indy some years, and some of those same teams were my reason to be interested in the IRL. Now, they're gone, and the faithful claim they were awful anyway and weren't needed.:mad:
Remember Phil Krueger and his "Cutters" car? Or the March he grafted together from two damaged cars and made the race with? Or howsa 'bout John Paul jr. putting a Buick in the show on Sunday (1990) that was V8 as late as the previous Friday but hard work and ingenuity got it ready to go? I remember in '92 Dominick Dobson put a Lola/Chevy in the field for his one-off team on the final day and drove so deep into the turns that they had throw a yellow after his run because of all of the grass he threw on to the track.
We can go on forever with examples. Not any more.
lateralus42
04-03-04, 12:06 PM
Guys you are all missing the point, where else could an old dude like Marty Roth go line up and race without worrying of being Bumped? Why IPS and and the Indy 500 ofcourse! Keep the dream alive Tony! :gomer:
Hot Rod Otis
04-03-04, 02:08 PM
Remember Phil Krueger and his "Cutters" car? Or the March he grafted together from two damaged cars and made the race with? Or howsa 'bout John Paul jr. putting a Buick in the show on Sunday (1990) that was V8 as late as the previous Friday but hard work and ingenuity got it ready to go? I remember in '92 Dominick Dobson put a Lola/Chevy in the field for his one-off team on the final day and drove so deep into the turns that they had throw a yellow after his run because of all of the grass he threw on to the track.
We can go on forever with examples. Not any more.
Those were the human interest stories which made Indy unlike any other race. Phil Krueger going home after qualifying and mowing his yard and almost hitting a tree with his riding mower because he was used to going 200+. Car owners like Usona Purcell, and Kent Baker buying a 3 year car and trying to and often qualifying. I remember at a practice day @ Indy in 1986, watching Spike Gelhausen in a year old Lola, with a 2-man pit crew in grubby jeans and t-shirts, trying for 20 minutes to get the car fired up. At the 2004 500, they wouldn't even be allowed in the door. And the self-proclaimed "true believers" at a certain forum would say "so what, they weren't good enough anyway". :rolleyes:
:mad: You guys just don't know what Indy means! :mad:
:o On second thought, maybe you're the only ones who do. :D
devilmaster
04-03-04, 05:35 PM
Ya know, as you guys were retelling the stories, one thing that was coming up in my mind (no comments from the peanut gallery :p) and is something I always remember from watching the Indys during the 80s and early 90s was the music in the background from the broadcast......
http://www.mnsi.net/~smicalef/deltatheme.mp3
Steve
Napoleon
04-18-04, 08:49 AM
Ah, the vision Version 10.23 at work.
Spot on Dave
Hey guys, lay off. :mad:
It's the quality of the Indy field that counts now, not how many try and qualify. We don't need no stinkin Mallards or Millers muddling up the back rows and as for the Novi's? Big deal, they never won at Indy cause they couldn't last 500 miles. So what if they sounded cool. I'll take a factory leased rev-limited Japanese drone mobile over a Granatelli whoosh wagon anyday. Who needs creativity or innovation anyway? It's the IRL baby and Tony's in charge. :gomer:
.........and those grand stands packed with people were so annoying!
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