*SPOILERS* Race talk for those who actually got up in time

[devilmaster]

Booooooorrrrrrrrrrrrring.

The first turn kinda reminded me of Cleveland turn 1, but Tilke had to put in a stupid left immediately following the right..... If he left it straight, we coulda seen some decent drag races.

You know its going to be a long season when Williams and McLaren get it so wrong to make BAR look good.

Sheesh.
Steve

[racer2c]

*spoiler* Shumi wins seventh World Championship.

I'm sorry I woke up for that. I'd rather have had the two hours of sleep.

[Hard Driver]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/edoom/sleeping.gif I wish I had stayed in bed for that one too.

I do think that BAR has improved their game as much as McLaren worsened. i.e. significantly on both parts.

Ralf is going to be lucky to get any contract next year IMO.

I hope I can get a good wallpaper shot of Kimi with 30' of flames coming out the back.

[Tifosi24]

Outcome of the race was rather boring, but the scraps for position back in the field were enjoyable. Bigger turnout for this race than I would have expected, so that was a plus. Definate minus would Tilke's so called track, this man is horrible as a track designer. I design tracks when I have spare time, and what I can gather is that Tilke never modifies an original design. He makes one design and that is what he sticks with, and he likes to take corners from other designs (eg last corner and the last corner at the A1-Ring). With some work, this track has a lot more potential as far as racing goes.

I think Machett said all this morning, Mclaren really should consider going back to the MP4-17D. The car might be two years old, but they should be up for trying anything right now, or telling Mercedes to take a flying leap. The BAR was impressive again today, and the Renault will win races for sure on the twisty tracks (just look at their performance through Tilke's terrible technical sections). The Sauber is a freaking rocket down the straights, but an absolute dog in technical sections. Klien was certainly impressive until his brakes went away, along with Sato he was the star of the race in my opinion. Finally, what more can be said about Mark "20 foot wide Jag" Webber; he took chopping and blocking to a whole new level. If I were the stewards, I would warn him and give him one more race to shape up before laying a ton of bricks on him.

[XFT]

Montoya must be feeling good about next year :shakehead

[TrueBrit]

I have to chime in here and say that the rest of you are a bunch of whiners..I mean, c'mon does anyone really think that Ferrari aren't the class of the field race in and race out??

Sure the outcome could have been phoned in, but the dicing throughout the order was very exciting..

Coupla thoughts:

Obi-Juan has to be wondering just what the heck he is getting himself into..

McLaren are the most out-to-sea that I can remember them being for a very long time...Kimi and DC have got to be wondering just what the hell happened to the pre-season form they were showing...

Methinks that BAR is the real deal, and that Young Master Villeneuve may very well be rueing his decision to not play nice..

Ralfie is a menace...I would be VERY surprised if Messrs Williams and Head don't park his arse before the FIA does...Judging by the looks on Patrick Head's visage throughout the race, the words after the race are likely to be short and terse..

It was also interesting to see the duels involving Klein et al....Mr Webber might want to re-consider his Buttmacher moves or he is going to find himself to be a very unpopular bloke in the paddock...

Jordan. What a shame....I've always liked EJ, and his team probably has the most joie de vivre in the entire pitlane but the car/engine/driver combo is an unmitigated disaster...

All in all, and much to my surprise, it was not quite the disaster I thought it would be...

[RTKar]

Sure the outcome could have been phoned in, but the dicing throughout the order was very exciting..

The only real reason to tune in anymore, outside of the weekly politics and the start of silly season already.

[oddlycalm]

BMW's decision last season to stay with Williams instead of getting into the chassis business and going it alone must seem questionable at this point. Perhaps Williams can pull it together by mid-season as they did last year. On the other hand, Ralph is making rookie mistakes.

McClaren and Benz seem like a great pair however. A dreadful chassis mated with an engine that isn't up to the one-per-weekend challenge.

Villeneuve blew it big by not making an effort to get along well enough to be around for the payoff after all the years of development pain. On the other hand, perhaps it's not worth it to spend time working with those one doesn't like. Regardless, Honda has finally found it's way, and the BAR chassis on Michelins is obviously a happy combination.

The Tilke track, as expected, is $150 million worth of mickey mouse. Makes TG look like a bloddy genious for getting his own attrocity for only half that price... :D

[pinniped]

Glad I slept in! Thanks for the update guys! (4:30 a.m. plus a time change is just toooo much)

[JT265]

The weekly "Ferrari & Mickey the Chin show", featuring Rooooooooobens " I was racing with Michael, and I could overtake him if I wanted to, HONEST" Bendoverchello, (sorry TB, I had to repo it this once ;) ), has to be giving Lord Bernie fits. Is another "beat up on Ferrari" rule change in the wind?

And I agree with you guys. I'd love to be a fly on the wall if Zorro, Kimi and Jacque$$$ all sat down for a beer to ponder what may have been and what likely will be.

[chop456]

I'd really be interested in finding out what the hell you guys expect from a new circuit. Assuming you've been watching F1 for a while, what do you really think you're going to see? Tilke's circuits are not crap, and are probably some of the best on the schedule as far as racing goes. Besides the abomination that was Silverstone last year, can you really come up with a circuit that's shown more racing? Look at what's out there currently before you criticize what's new. It's state of the art. The runoffs are huge and don't necessitate 2-foot deep car-swallowing gravel traps. Drivers can take chances without worrying about putting a wheel wrong.

I liked it.

And TB's pretty much spot-on with his observations.

[Warlock!]

I just got done watching it, and I must say, I was never bored enuf by the racing to fastforward this baby at all. Other than the Ferrari runaway, they were scrapping all thru the field. 3 passing opportunities per lap (4 if you had a large enuf sack) made positions 5-14 a blast to watch. And only 3 cars DNF?

Here's hoping there will be that much action (and I don't mean crashin') in the LBGP in a couple weeks.

Warlock!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Word. Besides player hatin' on Ferrari there wasn't much to complain about today. Overall a decent race (not up front ;) ) on a decent track. I don't get the criticism of Tilke's designs, personally... but oh well.

Ferrari are just awesome. So reliable. So fast. So few mistakes. We are witnessing a new level of domination in professional sport. I will never understand how someone can find that boring.

[edit]
:thumbup:
BAR
Button
reliability (sand... pfft!)
Fisichella not getting owned by Massa

:thumdown:
Mercedes
Ralf
Webber (wow!)
3 week gap to Imola

[Hot Rod Otis]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/edoom/sleeping.gif



My feelings exactly.

Wonder if Juan is having 2nd thoughts about going to McLaren next year?

Agree on Webber. He looks like Mario Haberfeld out there.

Sure is depressing seeing Jordan and Heidfeld sink farther and farther into Minardi territory.

[nissan gtp]

Ferrari and MS continue to amaze... just when you think it has to end, they do something like this. I'm beginning to think Mike could win 100 races :eek:

BAR is impressive.

McLaren is embarassing, as is ILMOR/Mercedes.

Williams will, I think, figure out the FW26 and start doing better.

[RTKar]

As far as a Tilke track;

Schumi considered the track "technical" and challenging... I wonder if the other guys, considering Schumi's considerable talent, thought it hellaciously hard.
As a fan, it's so disappointing not seeing McLaren mount any challenge to Ferrari with a driver of Kimi's ability. The only other proven challenger being Montoya does not allow for much excitement going into the race knowing full well Ferrari will dominate. The only race is for 3rd and how far back Rubens will be in 2nd. I wouldn't say it's totally boring, some new development pops up each race weekend. I just expected more from McLaren this year and a strong showing from Juan.

[Railbird]

I enjoyed the race, the best man in the best car dominated. No rule changes or "competition adjustments" to penalize an excellent effort.

As far as the track goes I agree with what Chop said elsewhere, if you are waiting for the next Nurburgring good luck.

[racer2c]

Give me a break guys. None of us here just fell off the racing fan turnip truck. We're all seasoned F1 fans and can all appreciate the feats at hand.
But a snoozer is a snoozer. Nobody is going to take your 'F1 race fan membership card' away if you express it either. I expect more out of this crew. Save the "I love it anyway' crap for the newbies.

:thumdown:

:thumdown:

:thumdown:

[Railbird]

sorry racer, I enjoyed it.

hell, I'm sitting here watching it for a second time.

While I wish a few of my boys could get a little closer to Ferrari it doesn't mean I won't enjoy the effort.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Word. Watching it again here too. BMW jackman cam is sweet, btw :thumbup:

[chop456]

Word. Watching it again here too. BMW jackman cam is sweet, btw :thumbup:

Can I get odds on whether or not you used the phrase "Box full o' neutrals" re: Montoya today? :D

[Dirty Sanchez]

Can I get odds on whether or not you used the phrase "Box full o' neutrals" re: Montoya today? :DYeah, I said that. :D I was surprised he was able to nurse it home.

[Lizzerd]

I watched the race on tape this afternoon and enjoyed it. Seeing Ferarri run away with 1-2 doesn't bother me. Doesn't mean I'm a big fan of the red cars, it's just my Italian heritage. Grandma was born on the boat 101 years ago, and the 100 year family reunion celebration party last summer was great, but I digress... The battles for the midfield positions were great. I have a lot of respect for the Klein kid.

I guess a ChampCar race is a snoozer too when there are no on track passes for the lead?

[FanofMario]

I watched the replay tonight. :o The track and racing was pretty stale. :thumdown: I will continue to sleep in and watch the replay. BTW, does anybody else think the cars are bit ugly this year with all the air-fin affects? The Renaults were in particular ugly.

Looks like Shumi will just watz through this season. :cry:

[Warlock!]

Save the "I love it anyway' crap for the newbies.
I'll save my crap for the noobs if you save your "It wasn't up to my racing standards, so you're wrong" crap for a lesser fan.

Different strokes/different folks, dude...

Warlock!

[mueber]

I never thought I would have to admit this but I nodded off just after the start. It's going to be a loooooong season.

[indyfan31]

It's really too back some of you folks didn't like the race. Yes, Ferrari is running away with this; the fact that Barrichelo pulled away from the pack shows how strong the car really is. Watching Williams and McLaren implode makes things interesting in that it allows other all the other teams a chance at the points, I think it's cool that two Saubers and a Minardi finished ahead of the McLarens.
I can't remember, was there this much kvetching when the McLaren-Hondas were running away with everything about 15 years ago?

[JT265]

I can't remember, was there this much kvetching when the McLaren-Hondas were running away with everything about 15 years ago?

Yep. But I hadn't invented the internet yet, so it wasn't as well known.

:D

[racer2c]

I'll save my crap for the noobs if you save your "It wasn't up to my racing standards, so you're wrong" crap for a lesser fan.

Different strokes/different folks, dude...

Warlock!

Saying it was a snoozer, and it was, is not saying that I'm accusing people of being wrong for liking it. My point is that, we're all F1 fans here. Long time F1 fans. We're not trying to convince any tintop fans that F1 reigns supreme with spin control op eds. I'm sure all of us, I know myself for sure, would rather watch a Ferrari on a hot qualifying lap, than watch 43 tin tops drone around in a circle all day. Hell, I didn't wake up at 7:00am on a Sunday so I could come to OC and bitch about how boring the race was. :shakehead
But, still, call a spade a spade. We do with Champ Car, we do with the IRL, we do with all races. Suddenly it's taboo to say that that was the most boring race in recent memory. Baah!
I'm glad to see that most here agree.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I'm glad to see that most here agree.Hate to let facts get in the way of a good story, but... it was pretty much a draw. Half thought it was interesting... the other half wish they had 2 more hours of sack time. ;)

[Forza Lancia]

I would agree that this year's Australian GP was one of the most boring ever, but I thought the race at Bahrain was pretty interesting. Fortunately, the director didn't spend much time showing the Ferraris (which would have been exceedingly dull), choosing to show some pretty intense racing for the other positions instead. There was the Klien v Raikkonen dice, as well as Sato v R Schumacher, Massa v Alonso, Webber v whomever it was that he almost took out, etc. I didn't have any trouble staying awake for this one.

[racer2c]

Hate to let facts get in the way of a good story, but... it was pretty much a draw. Half thought it was interesting... the other half wish they had 2 hours more hours of sack time. ;)

Ok, I see how it is. I'd hate to have the facts get in the way.

It was an awesome race guys! I like race cars! Vroom vroom!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Ok, I see how it is. I'd hate to have the facts get in the way.

It was an awesome race guys! I like race cars! Vroom vroom!No one is trying to change your mind dude. But saying that most here agree with you just isn't accurate... that's all I was pointing out. :thumbup:

[racer2c]

No one is trying to change your mind dude. But saying that most here agree with you just isn't accurate... that's all I was pointing out. :thumbup:

I counted 12 posts who though it boring and four who didn't. Doesn't mean we didn't 'like' the race.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I counted 12 posts who though it boring and four who didn't. Doesn't mean we didn't 'like' the race.I'll play along.

Well it should surprise no one that our counts differ.

I counted 6 individual posters that thought the race was boring (devilmaster, racer2c, hard driver, hot rod otis, meuber, fanofmario) and 10 individual posters (tifosi24, truebrit, chopper, warlock, crapus, rtkar, rail, lizzerd, indyfan31, forza lancia) that said it was worthwhile.

A few others posted in the thread saying that they either didn't watch it (didn't count those--how can you comment on it if you didn't even watch?)... or didn't really come out and say it was boring or exciting one way or the other. And then you have JT265, who's just a smartass. :D ;)

Next.

[Warlock!]

Saying it was a snoozer, and it was...
That would be an opinion... not right or wrong.

I'm glad to see that most here agree.
Most agree... fantastic. Still doesn't make me second guess my initial thoughts. Most people in the states agree NASCAR is the only real racing series. So are we just pretending to enjoy F1 and Champcar? Should we call a spade a spade and admit NASCAR is better than F1 and Champcar? I don't wanna change your opinion. You stated yours... I stated mine. Don't tell me I'm wrong for disagreeing, tho...

Warlock!

[JoeBob]

Add a vote to the column labeled: A boring race is more fun than pretty much anything else on TV.

That race was fun to watch if for no other reason than to see an Illmor do its best impression of a flame thrower since that Penske blew up years ago.

[racer2c]

Add a vote to the column labeled: A boring race is more fun than pretty much anything else on TV.

That race was fun to watch if for no other reason than to see an Illmor do its best impression of a flame thrower since that Penske blew up years ago.

Thank you JoeBob. That's what I've been saying all along. They love to attack me though. Oh well.

Oh and warlock, again, point out to me where I said you were wrong for stating an opinion? Your misinterpretation is astounding.

[Hardpoint]

the other half wish they had 2 hours more hours of sack time.

Reason #187 as to why I love tiVo.

P.S. Put me down as one who enjoyed the race.

[Warlock!]

Oh and warlock, again, point out to me where I said you were wrong for stating an opinion? Your misinterpretation is astounding.Sorry. You didn't say I was wrong for stating my opinion... you said my opinion was wrong. If that still isn't what you're trying to say, I give up. I liked the race, you didn't. I don't care.

I never argued with Silva cause I was pretty sure it would have been something like this.

Warlock!

[RichK]

I liked it. Of course, anytime I see Ralfie get what he deserves, I'm happy! :)

[racer2c]

Sorry. You didn't say I was wrong for stating my opinion... you said my opinion was wrong. If that still isn't what you're trying to say, I give up. I liked the race, you didn't. I don't care.

I never argued with Silva cause I was pretty sure it would have been something like this.

Warlock!

Well, now I know what talking to a rock is like. For the third time, and I went through my posts for the third time to make extra triple sure, I never accused your opinion of being wrong. On the contrary. Let's rewind here and go back to Steve's original post, Steve the author of the thread mind you, who stated how he thought the race was a real snoozer. He didn't say F1 sucked. He didn't say F1 was a farce because the race was boring compared to other F1 races. He simply said it was on the boring side. Then come the 'high road' posters who figure they will establish what great and extreme F1 fans they are by exclaiming the race as fine and dandy a race as they come. Insinuating that it is wrong to think F1 boring. I simply point out that calling the race boring is not equal to ones level of F1 fandom. Then the table is turned, my back up against a wall and I'm the bad guy for defending that premise. The same premise that the majority in this thread share, contrary to Crapus' findings. If I was the only one who said the race was as boring as politician, I would bow to submission...but I wasn't. I simply stated that there was no need to preach to the choir, we all love F1. If that's out in left field, so be it. I obviously hit close to home with someone.

The tin top boys are right, F1 fans are whiny little gashes, ain't we. Say what you will, I grew tired of this meaningless crap this morning.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Dude is flaming out like Kimi's Merc. :laugh:

[Warlock!]

OK... back up. This is the most involved post I've ever made in my history of internet forums... :D


Well, now I know what talking to a rock is like.
I heard dat... our arguments must be echoing between our two rock-chiseled skulls.

Then come the 'high road' posters who figure they will establish what great and extreme F1 fans they are by exclaiming the race as fine and dandy a race as they come.
Did I say that? Sorry dude, there ya go misinterpreting... I said I enjoyed the race.

Insinuating that it is wrong to think F1 boring.
You're obviously not talkin about me this time, cause I KNOW I didn't insinuate this by saying, "Different strokes/different folks, dude".

I simply point out that calling the race boring is not equal to ones level of F1 fandom.
I agree wit' ya there...

Then the table is turned, my back up against a wall and I'm the bad guy for defending that premise.
Again, you obviously didn't get that from any of my posts... I can't find anywhere where I called you out as a bad guy for not enjoying the race.

The same premise that the majority in this thread share, contrary to Crapus' findings. If I was the only one who said the race was as boring as politician, I would bow to submission...but I wasn't.
I take it you were bored by the race. Is that correct? I wasn't, and I wasn't the only one, either. That almost makes me think some of us found the race boring, while some of us didn't. I don't think less of the folks who were bored, just as I don't see the folks who enjoyed it as "great and extreme F1 fans".

I simply stated that there was no need to preach to the choir, we all love F1. If that's out in left field, so be it. I obviously hit close to home with someone.
Again, I didn't think I was preaching... I said I liked the race. Which is pretty much where you began with your reply, "Save your crap..."


The tin top boys are right, F1 fans are whiny little gashes, ain't we. Say what you will, I grew tired of this meaningless crap this morning.
:D I'm no longer tired of it. I can see why Silva used to get such a kick out of it ;)

So, using only one of the following choices (with no explaination necessary or wanted), how would you describe Sunday's Bahrain GP?

A) Boring
B) Not boring

I will think no less of you, no matter what your answer might be. At least you didn't call me a dork. :gomer:

Warlock!

[JT265]

<<<" I'm no longer tired of it. I can see why Silva used to get such a kick out of it ">>>

That's RICH!!!!!! How do you know that I never got tired of trying to enlighten you dorks!!!

<<<Sorry dude! I was just using you as a point of reference.>>>

HOW WEAK!!! :rolleyes: A POINT of reference??? I'm the only reference that is worthwhile!!!!! I have preached and preached to yourselves, the great unwashed, for years now, AND FOR WHAT??????

To be villified on an internet forum?!?!?!?!?!?! Now honestly, if we were to keep score, who amongst us has predicted the demise of the series formerly known as CART better than I??????

Who has been a trusted advisor to Roger and Wilke these many years???????
And you of all people call yourself a CART fan????????

<<<but we were talking about the F1 race dude.>>>

TYPICAL!!!!!! When you are losing an argument, change the subject!!!!!

How typically CARTISAN!!! :shakehead

I'm going back to Tenderloin forum, where I can command the respect I deserve!!!!!

<<< Some days I wish I had never invented the internet!!!!>>> :shakehead

[JT265]

I guess in my smartass <thanks Crapus! :thumbup: > way, I should weigh in on this argument.

I think it's sad for Willy and McBLAM! that the prancing horse is anniliating the field yet again, but I gotta agree with those that felt that the mid-field action was cool. And BAR have stepped up greatly too. <course that could be because JV is gone too> ;)

Besides, if I was to get whiny cause there were no <on-track> passes for the lead, I'd have to change my nick to tbyars and subscribe to Gooberforum.

[B3RACER1a]

racer2c, got some spinners on your car? :rofl:

[nz_climber]

Willy and McBLAM!

:rofl: :thumbup: :rofl:

[Anteater]

I agree with Forza Lancia; it was fun watching the battles for position further back in the field, and I was happy that the broadcast crew chose to focus on those. Otherwise, it was just another example of Ferrari running away with the race.

[racer2c]

Spinners? I'm more of a Rapala original floater man myself!!!


Warlock, again you prove why you da man! Good stuff! :thumbup:

Oh, and one thing is for sure, I'm not a card carrying member of the tofosi, but I do love their precision. They make it look easy. I'll never miss a race in hopes that some underdog upstages them. It will happen this year at some race! Won't it? I mean it has to right?

[Hard Driver]

McBLAM!


:thumbup: :rofl:

[Dr. Corkski]

This race was no worse than the one at the TilkeheimRing last year, but I didn't see a 3 page thread whining about that. Perhaps the excitement of a race also depended a lot on who was dominating as well. I have to admit I rather enjoyed how the friendly folks at BMW prepared Puffy for life at Uncle Ron's funhouse next year. ;)

[devilmaster]

http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif















Holy S*** guys!

I'm sorry I started this.....

But since people are guessing as to why I said boring, i'll clarify.

What I found boring was the track. There was some good racing in the pack, which could have even more interesting if the track was more accomodating. One spot that comes to mind is the quick left after turn 1. That first turn really reminded me of turn 1 at Cleveland. There could have been some great side by side drags if that left wasn't there.

I care not whether Schuey leads or Ferrari is 1-2. If you've watched F1 for the past years, you expect it.

IMO, that track made a possible decent race boring.

"And thats the rest of the story."
Steve

[racer2c]

http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif















Holy S*** guys!

I'm sorry I started this.....

But since people are guessing as to why I said boring, i'll clarify.

What I found boring was the track. There was some good racing in the pack, which could have even more interesting if the track was more accomodating. One spot that comes to mind is the quick left after turn 1. That first turn really reminded me of turn 1 at Cleveland. There could have been some great side by side drags if that left wasn't there.

I care not whether Schuey leads or Ferrari is 1-2. If you've watched F1 for the past years, you expect it.

IMO, that track made a possible decent race boring.

"And thats the rest of the story."
Steve

So why didn't you say so in the first place! Geez!! :D
I'm sticking to my Champ Car withdrawal theory in my own case.
:)

[devilmaster]

So why didn't you say so in the first place! Geez!! :D


Cause for the first time, a thread I started actually lasted longer than the day!

Most of the time you gomers just ignore my posts... ;) This one comes outta left field with everyone jumping in.

It was fun to watch though. :laugh:

Steve

[Hot Rod Otis]

I'll play along.

Well it should surprise no one that our counts differ.

I counted 6 individual posters that thought the race was boring (devilmaster, racer2c, hard driver, hot rod otis, meuber, fanofmario) and 10 individual posters (tifosi24, truebrit, chopper, warlock, crapus, rtkar, rail, lizzerd, indyfan31, forza lancia) that said it was worthwhile.

Let me clarify, I said that I found it boring. I DIDN'T say that I didn't enjoy it, I did. Getting up Sunday mornings and watching F1 is something I've been doing and enjoying since 1982. I enjoy it whether it's a "boring" race, which I thought Bahrain to be, or not. I considered it a yawner because the outcome was never in doubt, a Schumacher/Ferrari cake-walk. There were plenty of other happenings to keep my attention. Ralf/Sato, Kimi/Klien, Alonso/Weber, Kimi's MB flamethrower,et al. I'll take a "boring" F1 race over an "exciting" wheel-to-wheel" NASCAR or IRL show anyday.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Word. Not trying to put any words in anyone's mouth there. Ofcourse a boring F1 race is better than just about any Neckcar race... figured that was a given. And certainly didn't mean to suggest that you didn't enjoy it on some level... apologies :thumbup:

[Railbird]

as others have mentioned, the fact that the broadcast focused more toward the "field" than usual was the thing that made a runaway event fairly interesting to some of us.

Now will we see that same focus as the series moves to Euro? Something tells me we will be getting more Schumi and a whole lot less field.

and I don't even want to think about the two events on the Fatherland itself.

[Cam]

as others have mentioned, the fact that the broadcast focused more toward the "field" than usual was the thing that made a runaway event fairly interesting to some of us.

Now will we see that same focus as the series moves to Euro? Something tells me we will be getting more Schumi and a whole lot less field.

and I don't even want to think about the two events on the Fatherland itself.

We can at least hope that at Magney Bore we will see more of the Renault.... Right? :saywhat:

[Ankf00]

This race was no worse than the one at the TilkeheimRing last year, but I didn't see a 3 page thread whining about that. Perhaps the excitement of a race also depended a lot on who was dominating as well. I have to admit I rather enjoyed how the friendly folks at BMW prepared Puffy for life at Uncle Ron's funhouse next year. ;)

the abomination that is Tilke strikes again...