Anybody want the No. 14 on their car?

[rabbit]

It's been unretired per the new Champ Car rule book...

9.25.1. Assignment. All race car numbers are assigned by the Director of Competition or his designee. Race car number one (1) will be awarded to the Champ Car Series champion driver for use in all Champ Car World Series races during the reigning champion driver's season. Should the Series Champion Driver not participate in the series during his reigning season, then the number may be used during that season by the Series Champion team. Use of number one (1) is not cause to relinquish the competitor’s permanently assigned number. Numbers two (2) through ninety-nine (98) will be assigned on a permanent basis. In recognition of the lifetime achievements of race car driver Greg Moore, car number 99 is forever retired from Champ Car competition. :cool::thumbup:

[KLang]

I assume the text for this rule previously listed 14 and AJ by name?

:laugh:

[datachicane]

In keeping with tradition, perhaps the #14 should be assigned to the driver with the fewest championship points at the end of the season, much as the #1 is assigned.

At whichever race in a given season is geographically closest to Indy, the driver sporting the #14 would be issued a special pop-off valve resulting in a guaranteed front-row start and a likely early lap engine grenade.

Think of the tradition-honoring possibilities! Ceremonial sacrificial laptops, toxic witches' brew fueling, Stanley claw-hammer setups!

:D

[MAXAR RE]

I assume the text for this rule previously listed 14 and AJ by name?

:laugh:

No mention of AJ, but 14 is notated. From the 2003 rulebook (and has been all the previous ones I have seen as well):


9.27.1. Assignment. All race car numbers are assigned by the Director of
Technology or his designee. Race car number one (1) will be awarded to the
CART Champ Car Series champion driver for use in all CART Champ Car
World Series races during the reigning champion driver's season. Should the
Series Champion Driver not participate in the series during his reigning
season, then the number may be used during that season by the Series
Champion team. Numbers two (2) through ninety-nine (98) will be assigned
on a permanent basis. Thirteen (13) will not be assigned. Number fourteen
(14) will not be assigned. In recognition of the lifetime achievements of race
car driver Greg Moore, car number 99 is forever retired from Champ Car
competition. Numbers may be voluntarily released at the end of a season by
the holder. Numbers will be retained by the participant during a season of non
participation, but may be assigned to another participant during that season.
The number shall be released for permanent reassignment should the holder
fail to declare his intention to participate in the season following his season of
non-participation by December 1 of the year of his non-participation. Numbers
released will be reassigned using the Championship positions earned by
teams during the previous season with preference given to franchise entrants.
Use of number one (1) is not cause to relinquish the competitor’s permanently
assigned number.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Someday #35 will be on that list.

[JoeBob]

Here's the recent history of the car number rule. It looks like A.J. has slowly been removed. Another interesting tidbit is that up until now car 13 was also unavailable.

2004 rule ( http://www.cart.com/About/RuleBook2004.pdf ):

9.25.1. Assignment. All race car numbers are assigned by the Director of Competition or his designee. Race car number one (1) will be awarded to the Champ Car Series champion driver for use in all Champ Car World Series races during the reigning champion driver's season. Should the Series Champion Driver not participate in the series during his reigning season, then the number may be used during that season by the Series Champion team. Use of number one (1) is not cause to relinquish the competitor’s permanently assigned number. Numbers two (2) through ninety-nine (98) will be assigned on a permanent basis. In recognition of the lifetime achievements of race car driver Greg Moore, car number 99 is forever retired from Champ Car competition.
Permanent car numbers may be voluntarily released at the end of a season by the holder. Upon payment of a car number registration fee equal to the season entry fee by February 14, a car number may be retained by the participant during one season of non participation. This number will be released for permanent reassignment should the holder fail to declare his intention to participate in the next season with a paid season entry.

Upon submission of a paid full season entry by February 14, 2004 the opportunity to select a new car number from the list of unassigned numbers will be offered in the following order:
• Current team cars in the order of Championship points earned in the previous season.
• Additional cars to teams currently participating in the series.
• New teams to entering the series.


2003 Rule ( http://www.cart.com/About/RuleBook2003.pdf ):

9.27.1. Assignment. All race car numbers are assigned by the Director of Technology or his designee. Race car number one (1) will be awarded to the CART Champ Car Series champion driver for use in all CART Champ Car World Series races during the reigning champion driver's season. Should the Series Champion Driver not participate in the series during his reigning season, then the number may be used during that season by the Series Champion team. Numbers two (2) through ninety-nine (98) will be assigned on a permanent basis. Thirteen (13) will not be assigned. Number fourteen (14) will not be assigned. In recognition of the lifetime achievements of race car driver Greg Moore, car number 99 is forever retired from Champ Car competition. Numbers may be voluntarily released at the end of a season by the holder. Numbers will be retained by the participant during a season of non participation, but may be assigned to another participant during that season. The number shall be released for permanent reassignment should the holder fail to declare his intention to participate in the season following his season of non-participation by December 1 of the year of his non-participation. Numbers released will be reassigned using the Championship positions earned by teams during the previous season with preference given to franchise entrants. Use of number one (1) is not cause to relinquish the competitor’s permanently assigned number.

2002 Rule ( http://www.cart.com/About/RuleBook2002.pdf ):

9.32.1. Assignment. All race car numbers are assigned by the Director of Technology and Competition or his designee. Race car number one (1) will be awarded to the CART Champ Car Series champion driver for use in all CART FedEx Championship Series races during the reigning champion driver's season. Numbers two (2) through ninety-nine (98) will be assigned on a permanent basis. Thirteen (13) will not be assigned. As a tribute to his participation and in recognition of his outstanding record of performance as an Indy car driver, number fourteen (14) will be reserved for CART Champ Cars driven by or entered by A. J. Foyt, Jr. so long as his personal involvement in racing continues, and will be permanently retired upon his retirement from this sport. In recognition of the lifetime achievements of race car driver Greg Moore, car number 99 is forever retired from Champ Car competition.
Numbers may be voluntarily released at the end of a season by the holder, declaration of non-participation, or reassigned if not used for one complete season. Numbers released will be reassigned using the Championship positions earned by teams during the previous season with preference given to franchise entrants. Use of number one (1) is not cause to relinquish the competitor’s permanently assigned number.

[RichK]

In keeping with tradition, perhaps the #14 should be assigned to the driver with the fewest championship points at the end of the season, much as the #1 is assigned.

At whichever race in a given season is geographically closest to Indy, the driver sporting the #14 would be issued a special pop-off valve resulting in a guaranteed front-row start and a likely early lap engine grenade.

Think of the tradition-honoring possibilities! Ceremonial sacrificial laptops, toxic witches' brew fueling, Stanley claw-hammer setups!

:D


Bravo! :thumbup: :laugh:

[Wabbit]

I know I'll get flamed for this, but.....

I believe #14 should still be reserved for Foyt. I think it is lacking in class to change the rules after all this time to prevent #14 from being retired. As I believe #99 will always remind me of Greg Moore, #14 will always remind me of A.J.

On the other hand, I am glad to see that drivers will be assigned one number instead of changing every year.

[Rob]

Someday #35 will be on that list.
:confused: Who dat?

[rabbit]

... #14 will always remind me of A.J. ...For that reason maybe they should consider "banning it from use" rather than "retiring" it.:gomer:

[Hurling Frootmig]

A.J. hasn't done anything to keep Champ Car racing alive and he's with another series. Let them retire his number.

[Sean O'Gorman]

:confused: Who dat?

Me you moron!!! :laugh: :)

[RacinM3]

Interesting that through all those revisions nobody caught this mistake:


Numbers two (2) through ninety-nine (98) will be assigned on a permanent basis.

[devilmaster]

In recognition of the lifetime achievements of race car driver Greg Moore, car number 99 is forever retired from Champ Car competition.

As silly and unmanly as it sounds, that line still sheds a tear......

Steve

[Ed_Severson]

To me, the number 14 is no more special than 22 or 87 or 59 or any other number.

Foyt thinks Indianapolis is the only thing that matters, so I don't see why it should be a big issue to let somebody use it. And, for that matter, there have been many, many more special drivers than Foyt in Champ Car through the years, and out of that group, only Greg Moore has his number retired.

As for me, though ... I sure wouldn't want that number on my car.

And, for the record, there's nothing in the rulebook pertaining to drivers being assigned a particular number for their career. The rule is pretty much the same as in previous years, but now you can use 13 or 14 if you're feeling particularly unlucky or fat.

[cart7]

For that reason maybe they should consider "banning it from use" rather than "retiring" it.:gomer:
:rofl:

[ChampcarShark]

To me, the number 14 is no more special than 22 or 87 or 59 or any other number.

Well at one time I won some money using that number in my state lottery.

It was enough for a burger, if I recall well. :rofl:

To add my .02

AJ's accomplishments were thrown out the window when he stopped caring for the series. Anybody remembers what number mario used to wear?

Mario Andretty has done much more for the sport and is not being recognized.

[JoeBob]

Mario Andretty has done much more for the sport and is not being recognized.

Mario ran a wide variety of numbers on his cars over the years. You'd have to retire pretty much every single digit number.

Mario also had the All Star thing named after him, and gets a fat check from the series to act as a spokesman. (Not to mention having the Road America race named after him)

There are many things you can criticize ChampCar about, not recognizing Mario Andretti's accomplishments would not be on that list.

[ChampcarShark]

Mario ran a wide variety of numbers on his cars over the years. You'd have to retire pretty much every single digit number.

Mario also had the All Star thing named after him, and gets a fat check from the series to act as a spokesman. (Not to mention having the Road America race named after him)

There are many things you can criticize ChampCar about, not recognizing Mario Andretti's accomplishments would not be on that list.

You are right about that, Guess I meant he wasn't given more recognition.

As a spokesperson he earns his paycheck.

I completely forgot about the RA race. I was under the impression that he was putting some of his money to make it happen.

[Lizzerd]

If not money, a WHOLE lotta effort.

[Insomniac]

If not money, a WHOLE lotta effort.

I'd go with the effort. And it is appreciated.

[Andrew Longman]

now you can use 13 or 14 if you're feeling particularly unlucky or fat.

:rofl: :D

I feel that numbers should be retired very carefully and rarely.

The Yankees have been at this the longest being the first to assign numbers and then to retire them. In 100 years they still have only a handful of numbers retired, all universally agreed to.

I could see retiring a number for Mario. I'd use #6 as I believe that's what he used the most and last.

I could also see the #99 given the personality and success of GM and the tragic way it ended for him. Still we walk a slippery slope when we consider other drivers who died at the track.

Another number I would consider is Alessandro Zanardi #4. He gave donuts to all of racing and it is now as common as spraying champaign post race (which Gurney introduced). He also gave us a passion and love of racing and life, even more so after he lost his legs, that embody why we love this sport. Mario has that too. Maybe its an Italian thing :)

[Jervis Tetch 1]

To me, the number 14 is no more special than 22 or 87 or 59 or any other number.

Foyt thinks Indianapolis is the only thing that matters, so I don't see why it should be a big issue to let somebody use it. And, for that matter, there have been many, many more special drivers than Foyt in Champ Car through the years, and out of that group, only Greg Moore has his number retired.

As for me, though ... I sure wouldn't want that number on my car.

And, for the record, there's nothing in the rulebook pertaining to drivers being assigned a particular number for their career. The rule is pretty much the same as in previous years, but now you can use 13 or 14 if you're feeling particularly unlucky or fat.Ed, as always you're right on :thumbup:

[Wabbit]

Since you guys are so anti-IRL here, here's another thought.

Strip all the championships from Penske and Ganassi, and award them to the next runner up that never drove in the IRL.

Strip Andretti, deFerran, Montoya (he did run in the IRL500), Tracy, Rahal, Vasser, etc of all their championships and award them to the next runner up that has never driven in the IRL.

How's that for revisionist history?

[Railbird]

I saw AJ in his prime, he was one hell of a racedriver, but he was well past his prime by the time CART got rolling. He still had the occasional flash on the ovals but as the series started to come of age he had slipped well off the pace.

Unless they were rewarding him for hanging around being a pain in the *** I could never figure why they retired his number in the first place.

[Jag_Warrior]

Since you guys are so anti-IRL here, here's another thought.

Strip all the championships from Penske and Ganassi, and award them to the next runner up that never drove in the IRL.

Strip Andretti, deFerran, Montoya (he did run in the IRL500), Tracy, Rahal, Vasser, etc of all their championships and award them to the next runner up that has never driven in the IRL.

How's that for revisionist history?

Silly Wabbit! :laugh:

[Ed_Severson]

"Since you guys are so anti-IRL here, here's another thought.

Strip all the championships from Penske and Ganassi, and award them to the next runner up that never drove in the IRL.

Strip Andretti, deFerran, Montoya (he did run in the IRL500), Tracy, Rahal, Vasser, etc of all their championships and award them to the next runner up that has never driven in the IRL.

How's that for revisionist history?"

I haven't yet figured out why you're making the rounds, stumping away for the head-up-own-ass award for the day, but best of luck to you.

As for the steaming pile of garbage you've graced us with above ...

Uh, dude ... Foyt hardly accomplished a damn thing in the CART era, and never won a championship during that time period. Ask him what sort of cars he drove, and he'll tell you Indycars, not Champ Cars.

It's his choice to dissociate himself from Champ Car racing. I'm more than happy to accommodate that.

I don't think anybody here is interested in wiping his race results out of the record books, but what the hell reason would a Champ Car organization have to honor his career in Champ Cars if he can't even be bothered to acknowledge that he had one?

Now, since you're so pro-IRL here, here's yet another thought ...

Shut your yap

:)

Edit: On second thought, perhaps the pro-IRL comment isn't fair, and I'll retract that. But, seriously, two posts in one day ...

1) I heard from somebody who heard from somebody else who pulled the idea out of his rear that somebody is going to defect on Friday morning

and

2) A.J. Foyt's da man!

Exactly what are you trying to accomplish? :saywhat:

[dreamracer]

I agree with Ed, [except for that piss off...errr "shut yer yap" part. ;)]

If AJ act's like Champ Car is Chump Car, I see no reason to celebrate the guy.

[Railbird]

and lets not forget that during CART's start-up days the Portly Texan hung around in USAC's Indycar series padding his win total.

[JT265]

Since you guys are so anti-IRL here, here's another thought.

Strip all the championships from Penske and Ganassi, and award them to the next runner up that never drove in the IRL.

Strip Andretti, deFerran, Montoya (he did run in the IRL500), Tracy, Rahal, Vasser, etc of all their championships and award them to the next runner up that has never driven in the IRL.

How's that for revisionist history?

Pretty much off the wall in my view. I gotta agree with 'Bird here. A.J. was a hero of mine as a kid, but he done nothing in ChampCar. And I would also say that it was a class act on CART to hold his number this long, considering that he has done nothing but whisper in Mumbles ear and piss on CART for years now.

And, he's tarnishing his legend every time he sticks some claw-hammer engineered piece of kife out on the track.

[RTKar]

Does it come with a seasons supply of nitrous and special pop-off valves?

[pineapple]

Originally Posted by Wabbit
"Since you guys are so anti-IRL here, here's another thought.

Strip all the championships from Penske and Ganassi, and award them to the next runner up that never drove in the IRL.

Strip Andretti, deFerran, Montoya (he did run in the IRL500), Tracy, Rahal, Vasser, etc of all their championships and award them to the next runner up that has never driven in the IRL.

How's that for revisionist history?"

----

I didn't read the original statement as advocating stripping away AJ's championships, rather just making a previously reserved number available to current ChampCar drivers. Since the initial esteem which CART held for Foyt was evidenced in the retiring of his number, Foyt seems to have made it clear that perhaps he is no longer worthy of the original honor bestowed upon him.

There's no history being revised here - Foyt's racing achievements have not been obfuscated by division, altered, stolen or co-opted for inclusion in a new version or vision of open wheel racing history - it's just the present making the correct call on reality. Perhaps he'll be honored again someday if someone believes his most recent contributions and achievements merit a retirement of his current #14.

[JT265]

Perhaps he'll be honored again someday if someone believes his most recent contributions and achievements merit a retirement of his current #14.

Sadly, about the only people that would suggest he *retire* his current #14 are the poor bastards that have to replace the soft walls. ;)

[pineapple]

Perhaps he'll be honored again someday if someone believes his most recent contributions and achievements merit a retirement of his current #14.

Sadly, about the only people that would suggest he *retire* his current #14 are the poor bastards that have to replace the soft walls. ;)

:D Hope those guys are at least getting overtime.

[RobGuru]

I think that the #14 should be reserved...

For A.J. ...












Dinger, that is!!
Let Dinger run the #14!!
:D

[Rob]

Look closely at Mr. Sperafico's car. (http://www.champweb.net/images_database/gal2004_01a/DSC00751.JPG) Is that a 14 I see?

[Steve99]

Look closely at Mr. Sperafico's car. (http://www.champweb.net/images_database/gal2004_01a/DSC00751.JPG) Is that a 14 I see?

I wonder if that is why the changed the rulebook? Does Sperafico have some connection to that number?

[Ed_Severson]

The website lists Sperafico as #24, not #14.

And, to add to the confusion, Race Director lists him as #14.

Maybe it's #*4 ...