Ford/Chevy 6speed auto-trans project

[RaceGrrl]

Heard a story on Marketplace today about Ford and Chevy's plans to jointly design and build a 6-speed front wheel drive automatic transmission. Link here (http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2004/04/19_mpp.html)

If I'd heard this story on April 1, I'd have thought it a joke, but it is very real. Turns out that the Japanese are working on a 7 speed tranny.

[nrc]

They should make one that goes to 11.


I'm not quite sure why they would be looking to go this route when CVTs are starting to become practical. I suppose the big fatties they're building these days may be a bit much for a CVT to pull around. Still, six or seven speeds stills seems like overkill.

But what do I know? I've never owned a slushbox.

[racer2c]

They should make one that goes to 11.


I'm not quite sure why they would be looking to go this route when CVTs are starting to become practical. I suppose the big fatties they're building these days may be a bit much for a CVT to pull around. Still, six or seven speeds stills seems like overkill.

But what do I know? I've never owned a slushbox.

Practical maybe, realistic for sure, but trouble free they aren't. Saturn announced a few weeks ago that they were discontinuing their CVT tranny for the mini-SUV, Vue. Evidently they had so many problems, it was better to just can it, than refine it. Also, I hear that Honda's CVT that has been in production for ten years, is still their number 1 warranty fix. (source- Pat Gauss, radio auto talk show host)

Sounds like six and seven gear slushboxes are just another excuse at a low cost marketing gimmick. It seems as if auto technology comes in the way of electronics (understandably, considering how quickly computer tech advances these days). I remember ceramics being the next big thing. I do see some composite plastics on intake manifolds (my bro-in-law's PT Cruiser has one), but other than that it's really just rehashed it seems. We're a richer country, the world is a richer world and most of the really high tech cars are out of the middle class's hands. That's why I really have to give props to Mazda for not only making the Miata, but continuing to make the Miata. A pure sports car that doesn't break the bank.

[nz_climber]

Mazada Miata?? is that an MX-5? (sorry i just get confused with same cars under different names in different countries :confused: )

The Toyota MR-S isn't a bad wee sports car either that is fairly cheap (hell even my mum is getting 1 in the next month or 2 ) :eek:

[chop456]

From the outside, it looks like the U.S. auto industry is doing everything in their power to suck. I swear there must be foreign moles in Detroit putting stupid ideas in people's heads. The six-speed automatic isn't a new idea by a longshot, and putting a snappy transmission in a piece of crap car isn't going to sell it. I wonder if they'd gain any result by putting that 3/4 billion into engineering some decent cars instead. Too bad Chrysler isn't involved, or they could have lent their expertise on constructing a transmission so precise in it's tolerances that it explodes at exactly 60,000 miles. ;)


In a somewhat related note, the Chrysler dealer down the street had a new 300C on display out front. I must admit, the auto show pictures don't do it justice - it's far worse in person. It looks like a Checker Marathon mated with a late 70's Russian Zil limousine. Good god, it's like they had a design meeting and intentionally took all the worst ideas. It's absolutely hideous.

The Pontiac Solstice may be their only hope. It looks promising.

[Robstar]

Mazada Miata?? is that an MX-5? (sorry i just get confused with same cars under different names in different countries :confused: )

Yup, MX-5

[Sean O'Gorman]

The Pontiac Solstice may be their only hope. It looks promising.

Looks like I get to burst your bubble. That car is going to have a curb weight of approximately 2,800 lbs. :eek: :shakehead

[racer2c]

From the outside, it looks like the U.S. auto industry is doing everything in their power to suck. I swear there must be foreign moles in Detroit putting stupid ideas in people's heads. The six-speed automatic isn't a new idea by a longshot, and putting a snappy transmission in a piece of crap car isn't going to sell it. I wonder if they'd gain any result by putting that 3/4 billion into engineering some decent cars instead. Too bad Chrysler isn't involved, or they could have lent their expertise on constructing a transmission so precise in it's tolerances that it explodes at exactly 60,000 miles. ;)


In a somewhat related note, the Chrysler dealer down the street had a new 300C on display out front. I must admit, the auto show pictures don't do it justice - it's far worse in person. It looks like a Checker Marathon mated with a late 70's Russian Zil limousine. Good god, it's like they had a design meeting and intentionally took all the worst ideas. It's absolutely hideous.

The Pontiac Solstice may be their only hope. It looks promising.

I am a huge fan of the Lutz era Chrysler design ('90's). World leading, as some auto journalists have written (Lutz brought forth the Viper, Prowler, PT Cruiser, Neon, 300M, Ram), but I almost spit my coffee up the other day when I went past the new 300. BTW, Lutz has moved on to GM and spearheaded that new goofy looking sporty pickup thingy and as you mention, the Solstice (which I have referenced recently myself, and I despise GM cars)
I am really liking the Crossfire though. Different from any sports car on the road.
American auto-makers need to step it up. Nissan is kicking butt, with it's new lineup. GM is irrelevant, Ford is strong but reserved. Chrysler lost Lutz and is run by the Germans now. Boo.

[racer2c]

Oh and one more thing, that new horrid 300 is Chrysler's first rear wheel drive passenger sedan in 15 years. Hasn't it been proven that besides sportscars, front wheel drive is handles better for the average Joe in inclimate weather? The big three moved away from rear wheel drive passenger sedans throughout the '90's leaving only the Ford Crown Victoria as the only one (along with it's Mercury twin). Why would Chrysler bring this back? Planning more rear wheel drive platform cars? I hear that the Magnum wagon (with a 345hp Hemi) is rear wheel. And the upcoming revised Charger will be rear wheel too. It just seems strange to me. Heck, make them all wheel drive at least. Subaru has been doing that for decades.

[nrc]

I like the looks of the Crossfire, but I sat in one at the Columbus Auto show and my head was smashed up against the headliner. I'm not tall so unless they had the power seat hieght all the way up anyone over 5'10 need not apply.

The rest of the new Chrysler line is just too big and bulky looking. I'm sure that's what they're going for to try to lure mom and dad who are ready to give up their SUV once the kids are grown, but they look too much like chopped SUVs to me.

[oddlycalm]

a new 300C on display out front. I must admit, the auto show pictures don't do it justice - it's far worse in person. It looks like a Checker Marathon mated with a late 70's Russian Zil limousine.

Great description. Zil indeed... :D

I thought Cadaverlac broke the ugly stick on their garish cow catcher front ends, but I see they will have stiff competion from the new Chrysler Zil. Trust me, the new Audi models are almost as bad as well. It's like some nightmare competition to see who can make the ugliest front end, or some bad drugs making the rounds in automotive styling circles. :shakehead

I'd love to have the juice to get my own automotive test/evaluation show during this particular period, because I could really have some fun with the bowzers, and these days I would never run out of targets... :D

oc

[Ankf00]

GM engineers are too occupied trying to tell you how their cars are now better than the japanese to design their own cars properly in the first place

[Madmaxfan2]

I can tell you this project is no joke. GM and Ford are forming this joint venture. If you have ever owned a Ford product with an 4XOD, 4XOS, or 4XNS, you know why Ford gave up on designing thier own transmissions.

[Ankf00]

I can tell you this project is no joke. GM and Ford are forming this joint venture. If you have ever owned a Ford product with an 4XOD, 4XOS, or 4XNS, you know why Ford gave up on designing thier own transmissions.
b/c they're too busy trying to add features to the backseat of that new Freestar :laugh:

[oddlycalm]

I can tell you this project is no joke. GM and Ford are forming this joint venture. If you have ever owned a Ford product with an 4XOD, 4XOS, or 4XNS, you know why Ford gave up on designing thier own transmissions.

I'm sure it's no joke (at least to them). Most of the high end makes have gone to six speed automatics to increase performance and fuel efficiency. There is no substitute for torque multiplication, not even cubic inches. BMW has been able to make their tranny smaller and lighter even while adding that 6th gear ratio, and they are a tiny company when compared to either GM or Ford. I can guarantee that BMW didn't spend anywhere near $750 million, because they don't have that kind of money available, not even for an entire new model platform.

This project reminds me of GM's Quad Four project where they spent a fortune to develop a very routine DOHC four, just like dozens of engines from other companies that had been around for decades, and the end result was mechanicall noisy as a bucket of bolts, ran rough as a cob (can you say counterbalance shaft?) and required years of refinement. DOHC inline engines have been around since the 1930's (Stutz DV-32 was even desmodromic so it required no valve springs), so when Roger Smith proclaimed what a technological advancement the Quad Four was to the world, it was one of funniest, and most ignorant, announcements of the late 20th century.

To say these companies are insular is like calling a dwarf short. They have long since purged the strong creative voices in the interests of social conformity, and they keep anyone with any level of real technical experienced pushed down into inconsequential posititions, while they spend zillions to develop gee-whiz technology of dubious utility in labs staffed by people with advanced degrees and not a lick of practical experience or common sense. In short, GM and Ford are shining examples of how not to manage a company.

oc

[4wheeldrifter]

OC, as usual, you are spot about GM. I last worked there about 13 years ago as an enginerd intern (ie. student). What you describe is what I saw. The company has so many layers of management the guys at the bottom seemed pretty ho-hum about their day to day activities. Half of them would bail after lunch on Fridays to go play golf.

As for new model styling: I've also noticed that the latest designs to come out seem to be really lacking in the front-end-styling department. It's like they just got to the end of the front-end-styles book, ran out of their own ideas, and let their 7 year old kids draw them up something "fresh". BMW is ruining one of the nicest looking line of cars ever. Someone mentioned Nissan earlier. The cars may be nice (mine's actually a big fat rustbucket, way before its time) but the front end styling on especially the Maxima makes me wanna barf. Not Aztek quality retching mind you, but still pretty bad..

[nrc]

In short, GM and Ford are shining examples of how not to manage a company.

oc

GM, I agree. Ford's situation is a little different, I think. Obsession with trucks has almost terminally stagnated their US lineup, but their foreign nameplates have done a pretty good job of using Ford's resources to their benefit. The result has been some pretty good cars from Ford, Jaguar, Volvo and Mazda.

[Madmaxfan2]

To add to the information here, BMW's six speed auto made by ZF transmission, and is also shared by Jaguar. Ford btw has joint venture with ZF for CVT and six speed automatic rear wheel drive vehicles. Manual transmissions at Ford are Mazda or Gertag. Very few OEM's are making thier own transmissions anymore.