What Will The IRL Look Like In Five Years?

[Dave99]

I'm sure Tony George, in the beginning, wanted a formula for his league he that was dissimilar to CART's to prevent crossover (read: cherry picking Indy in like-equipment). His low-hp, low-rpm low-tech formula, however, was far from a fan favorite. What TG failed to realize was how attractive (literally and figuratively) CART's 2.65L turbo formula was, as were its sleek chassis that did not require unsightly airboxes and humpback engine covers.

I believe that if George was successful in killing ChampCar last January he would have changed the IRL's formula quicker than adding a .1.4 to the current IRL vision-version number. Afterall, the ChampCar series' appeal is as much the technology of the engines and chassis as it is the diversity of tracks it runs (including Indy back in the day, to be sure!).

So now that Forsythe, Kalkhohven and Gentilozzi have breathed life into ChampCar it looks like the series will continue forward with the small displacement, turbo formula for years to come. No doubt with sleek, sexy chassis that continue to challenge the laws of physics and gravity.

Where does that leave TG, the IRL and the equipment it will run in the future? There is much talk about Toyota leaving the IRL for NASCAR's Nextell Cup series in a few short years. It is suspected that Honda will also leave the IRL in a few short years, as they will no longer have any real competition. If that happens, I'm sure George & Braintrust will find one or more manufacturers to fill that void. Their engine's displacement may stay around 3.0L but what will the evolution of the chassis be like in five years?

Will they ever find an engine/chassis combination that would have mass appeal for all open wheel race fans?

Would the IRL ever attempt a lower displacement turbo formula and delete the airbox and humback engine cowl (especially with road courses on the horizon) or would that be too...cough, cough...cost-prohibitive?

With the series looking so much like CART of old, wouldn't you think they would just get it over with and change the last piece of the puzzle?

Are they destined to be crapwagons forever?

[Ziggy]

Stock Cars

:cry:

[racer2c]

I've read so much from the lemming handbook (which changes as much as Toy's vision) that I can speak on a few of your points Dave99.

First, any good lemming will tell you that Tony's first choice for an engine wasn't a 4.0 boat anchor, but rather a sexy small displacement turbo! It was the simple matter of obtainment that led to the 4.0's.

As for the chassis (and remember, according to Tony road courses were always in the plans), "technology = money". With road courses coming on board, which will require a more refined chassis with an investment in a refined road course aero package, the money will flow into an even more Champ Car like race car. Remember, the first true crapwagon had an H pattern shift, a huge 4.0 boat anchor, a backcracking attenuator but over the years, poof, these things changed. Why? To become more 'CART like'. Why? Because all Tony wanted was to rule CART.

In five years I predict that the road courses will dictate an even more advance in chassis and engine and the IRL will look more and more like CART of 2002. But it will be on the surface only. They will still be crapwagons because they will continue to not decrease downforce thus producing un-challenging cars (at least compared to a Champ Car). They will continue to restrict aero package engineering by an individual team. And I predict they will water down the road courses they will run ala Nextel Cup, in order for Sam ad Sarah to have a fighting chance.

Then, six years from now the stock cars will take over. The end. The very sad end. Thanks Tony. Dickweed.

[Spicoli]

Hopefully, it will be something of the past. an old bad idea, run by a guy who is now in the ****ing looney-bin with the rest of his godforesaken crack addicted family.

Go to hell Tony. :flame:

[Hot Rod Otis]

Stock Cars

:cry:

Yep, the Indy 500 will be a NASCAR race. IMS will be an ISC track. :shakehead :shakehead

[Brickman]

Well... since engine manufacturers make the world go round I think it's their involvement that will dicate where the IRL goes. Right now they have morphed into CART II, teams propped up by engine manufacturers rather than real sponsors. What they need is real sponsors and a relaxed availability of engines to further the growth of teams.

I had hoped that their new chassis (03') would amount to something, needless to say it's gone backwards. I don't know what it was in their specs that dicated to both manufacturers the resulting chassis, but in my mind it seems unbalanced. I don't think TG has engineers whispering in his ear that Texas is the best racing in the world and adopt these specs so it continues... but after their last go round, Lola or someone needs to bend his ear or rip it off so they can get the formula right.

I believe a bidding war will break out between OWRS and TG for road courses, venues that use to pay sanctioning fees, venues that I guess are now running races paying minimal fees or non at all will soon be paid by the competing parties.

An exact reversal in roles has taken place for both series. One is propping up teams and the other being propped up by manufacturers. TG should be getting them to adopt a sensible (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42082&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) plan rather than just taking their dollars, it's the one thing that CART was unable to do with engines, move forward and stay ahead of the game. Making a product available creates it's own momentum, like Beta or VHS. The superior one doesn't always win, availabilty can help the inferior product grow in the marketplace.

If they don't get their act together... Where will the IRL be in six years? Probably powered by spec Fords running 12 cars and the new traditional 11 rows of two every May.

[Ziggy]

Brickman, five years ago you where telling us all what a great idea the IRL was.

Make up your mind.


Ziggy

[SteveH]

wgaf what it looks like, its the vision that counts, not what is actually on the track

[Ziggy]

Pretty soon they will be touting the breaking of the magic 220 mph barrier.

Lets see, Practice is a non event, Pole Qualifications is a non event. Bump Day is history, yeah, its about fixed.

Carb day, Race day, and both of these are way down as well. Dont believe me, why is IMS running ad's for tickets in every major newspaper in the country?

Qualify at 11 am, Race at 1 pm. Just like Lincoln Park

PS - Jay Drake to get thrown to wolves. Film at 11

Ziggy

[Brickman]

Brickman, five years ago you where telling us all what a great idea the IRL was.

Make up your mind.


Ziggy

I remember 5 years ago quite well thank you, the races I went to had Montoya winning at Long Beach (I can still recall the VCR replay with Paul Page marveling at Juan's hand control whooping about did you see that?), Herta breathing again at Laguna Seca and and the 99 only going 9 laps at Fontana. I also remember SteveH was going to sell me tickets to Chicago (after I had sold mine earlier when I thought I had a date conflict) but at the last minute I couldn't get cheap airfare. If I remember right Tony George was there stringing his future IRL team owners along... Couldn't tell you who won the IRL race at Phoenix, but yes I was there. I sadly remember Charlotte... (I think that was 99') I'd be guessing the NASCAR races I went to (like anybody would check) Gordon probably won 1/2.

I always thought the IRL's 4.0's engines were loud and eardumbing, didn't go to Phoenix in 96' because it wasn't CART. But went after because I always liked going to the Valley of the Sun. I give the IRL grief when they deserve it and I stand by what I post. Even when I read it totally wrong and go off the road into a ditch. I also pay my bets. :p

Sometimes the years are just a blur, but sometimes not. The IRL a great idea, no I just liked their independent engine builder idea, exposing open wheel to NASCAR country, but I have always said it was about control. TG controlling Open Wheel and manufacturers doing the same. Murph taught me that way back when.

[Brickman]

Lets see, Practice is a non event, Pole Qualifications is a non event. Bump Day is history, yeah, its about fixed.

Carb day, Race day, and both of these are way down as well. Dont believe me, why is IMS running ad's for tickets in every major newspaper in the country?



Ziggy

Yep

[Spicoli]

Yep

Are you the same Brickman that posts on CrackForum all the time?

[Lizzerd]

never mind...

[pchall]

... Sometimes the years are just a blur, but sometimes not. The IRL a great idea, no I just liked their independent engine builder idea, exposing open wheel to NASCAR country, but I have always said it was about control. TG controlling Open Wheel and manufacturers doing the same. Murph taught me that way back when.

LOL. It must be great to be able to edit your own memories like that.

[Mr. Vengeance]

http://www.kcpublications.com/images/death_valley-lone_sagebrus.jpg

[4wheeldrifter]

http://www.kcpublications.com/images/death_valley-lone_sagebrus.jpg

Beautifully said. And, hopefully accurate. :thumbup:

[Brickman]

LOL. It must be great to be able to edit your own memories like that.

I always thought I was quite consistant. Must be another memory thing. ;)

[JLMannin]

What will the IRL look like in 5 years?

The IRL season will consist of one race - the Indy 500. Pole day will be Champcar day, bump day will be USAC, er, irl day. Pole day and Bump day will occur concurrently. There will be an outfit of rag-tag shoestring budget indy-only teams fighting for the scraps that fall from the Champcar table.

The IRL season will begin on Wednesday before race day with the ROP program. Thursday and Friday will practice day, quals will happen on Saturday. Getting 33 car driver combos to turn out will have went by the wayside years ago. The real drama will be the setting of the minimum speed required to secure a starting spot - 107% of the pole time. There will be equivalency formulas.

In other words, the irl will look like USAC did from 1982 to 1995, just less competitive and more pathetic.

[cart7]

I'd have never thought it would ever get to this point 8 years ago.

That said:

Chevy pulls out, probably next year.

The 500 becomes a night race in 05 either Sat. nite or Mon nite.

Toyo and Honda announce internal restructuring(entering Nascar racing full-time in 06) that precludes them from supporting as many cars as they currently do. All teams announce drops of at least one car each. 06 car counts struggle to hit 12.

2006 Indy ratings hit all time low. Announcement that earl and Nascar are switching race dates at the brickyard. TG spins it as attempting to maximize the full potential of IMS as the earl is in a rebuilding stage.

irl steals around 6 of Carts best circuits by actually paying to hold the race. No one shows up and 1/2 of earl fanbase left leaves.

USAC Gold Crown specs are announced as the new earl spec in 07 since no engine manufacturer wants to associate with the league. ex-Cart crossover teams protest and threaten to move to CCWS, fortunately, KK announces that his field for most races is full and only a couple teams can make the switch.

After pizzing off most of his fan-base, TG watches as 30 - 40k total lemmings wander into the brickyard for his new Gold Crown OW August race that used to be the 500.

End of 2007, Hulman family sells all interest in IMS to France family.

2008, Banking increased, track widened & re-paved including right over the yard of bricks, along with a major house cleaning at the speedway mueseum. Barrett-Jackson has a banner auction of Indy racecars in Scottsdale. A statue of DE is placed atop the pagoda and pork rinds replace tenderloins as the official track food.

Gomer is replaced with Lee Greenwood.

Flo Henderson replaced with Jo Dee Messina

Track Forum, becomes nearly devoid of posters so empty bandwidth is used up with a nearly incoherant T13 and 220mph typing 5 page threads on what went wrong wasn't so much TG's fault but the right idea at the wrong time.

Nascar announces the 15th running of the Indy 500 in 2008.

Mysterious cable TV problems detected during the telecast of 2008 race. After an investigation, an Indy area Cable installer is arrested for tampering with cable TV transmission equipment.

[Racewriter]

PS - Jay Drake to get thrown to wolves. Film at 11

Ziggy

Yeah, I saw that. If he gets the "Carpenter Rev Limiter," he's got it covered. If he gets a fresh engine, he'll do fine.

Incidentally, Craig Dollansky won his first Outlaw feature a couple of weeks ago, coming back from getting his back friccassee'd in the last IPS 100.

[Racewriter]

I'd have never thought it would ever get to this point 8 years ago.

That said:

Chevy pulls out, probably next year.

The 500 becomes a night race in 05 either Sat. nite or Mon nite.

Toyo and Honda announce internal restructuring(entering Nascar racing full-time in 06) that precludes them from supporting as many cars as they currently do. All teams announce drops of at least one car each. 06 car counts struggle to hit 12.

2006 Indy ratings hit all time low. Announcement that earl and Nascar are switching race dates at the brickyard. TG spins it as attempting to maximize the full potential of IMS as the earl is in a rebuilding stage.

irl steals around 6 of Carts best circuits by actually paying to hold the race. No one shows up and 1/2 of earl fanbase left leaves.

USAC Gold Crown specs are announced as the new earl spec in 07 since no engine manufacturer wants to associate with the league. ex-Cart crossover teams protest and threaten to move to CCWS, fortunately, KK announces that his field for most races is full and only a couple teams can make the switch.

After pizzing off most of his fan-base, TG watches as 30 - 40k total lemmings wander into the brickyard for his new Gold Crown OW August race that used to be the 500.

End of 2007, Hulman family sells all interest in IMS to France family.

2008, Banking increased, track widened & re-paved including right over the yard of bricks, along with a major house cleaning at the speedway mueseum. Barrett-Jackson has a banner auction of Indy racecars in Scottsdale. A statue of DE is placed atop the pagoda and pork rinds replace tenderloins as the official track food.

Gomer is replaced with Lee Greenwood.

Flo Henderson replaced with Jo Dee Messina

Track Forum, becomes nearly devoid of posters so empty bandwidth is used up with a nearly incoherant T13 and 220mph typing 5 page threads on what went wrong wasn't so much TG's fault but the right idea at the wrong time.

Nascar announces the 15th running of the Indy 500 in 2008.

Mysterious cable TV problems detected during the telecast of 2008 race. After an investigation, an Indy area Cable installer is arrested for tampering with cable TV transmission equipment.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Brickman]

Yeah, I saw that. If he gets the "Carpenter Rev Limiter," he's got it covered. If he gets a fresh engine, he'll do fine.

Incidentally, Craig Dollansky won his first Outlaw feature a couple of weeks ago, coming back from getting his back friccassee'd in the last IPS 100.

Met his dad at a family gathering in Minnesota last year. (related somewya some how wife's side of family) Those cars aren't for drivers and he evidently tried to drive out of trouble.

[nissan gtp]

The only thing FTG ever wanted was to kill CART .... the "vision" is an illusion. Ironically, he ended up with almost everything he claimed to not want, and Champ Car (nee CART) lives.

In 5 years, Toney will still be a looser, and Champ Car and its fans will be winners.

[RTKar]

The irl will be a NASCAR property.

[fourrunner]

Helio will finally succumb and Win the Indianopolis 300 wearing a Sequined Nomex Evening Gown, High Heels , and a Hot Pink Wig... and Penske who has been slowly losing his mind will announce that Helio is his Trophy Girlfriend to one up Bobby Rahal ;)

Oops, sorry that's in 4 years... In five years the IRL will be Youstawas ! :)

[Hot Rod Otis]

Great post cart7 :thumbup: :laugh: :thumbup:

[Madmaxfan2]

I love the part about the Indy cable TV installer :rofl: Always ready to defend the illusion delusion.