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ChrisB
05-07-04, 10:44 PM
So now I hear that Nazareth might not be in the IRL's future. Before anyone disparages the track, consider this pic of the 1997 Bosch GP:

http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/naz/naz_97.jpg

I have a Nazareth history page here (http://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/naz/index.html) for more.

Attendance peaked in '97 at about 45k after growing year after year. Then what happened?

1998: Rain-out, held Monday. This probably annoyed many fans.
1999: Horrible race due to no-grip "speedway" wings. More fans annoyed.
2000: Friggin' Snow! Yet even more fans turned off.
2001: Good weather, but CART leaving (and Roger & Mario openly begging them reconsider) probably didn't look too good to fans either.
2002: First IRL race. rain drizzle... 52% of laps run under yellow. More fans annoyed.
2003: Finally a summer date, but hardly anyone shows up.

Year after year, things just piled on to annoy the fans. Add in "the split" to also decimate the general sponsor & media base and it's no wonder.

If the IRL leaves Nazareth, it'll be the first time in my lifetime of no Indy/Champ races in the Philly area... this after having Trenton, Langhorne, Pocono, & Nazareth. I don't see the Mattiolis having Indy cars back if Naz goes... despite Pocono having been designed by Roger Ward for Champ/Indy cars.

Racewriter has some good posts around here on the situation with Nazareth, of how Craig Rust is running both Naz and the Glen. Myself, I found it weird that the 2004 Naz fan guide gave Watkins Glen as the return address.

Nazareth Speedways biggest problem is the lack of passing, for 2 reasons:

1. It's too narrow... only 50ft wide on the front and 60ft on the backstretch. Consider that the Milwaukee Mile is 70ft wide all around.

2. No long stretches to make passes... the dogleg turns on the front just doesn't allow cars to get a run and make a pass. The backstretch is the only place. Combined with the narrow widths, it just doesn't work well for passing.

From a spectators POV... it's a great track... everything is so close. (but they need to keep the infield clear of RV's).

My suggestions:

1. Widen it to 70ft all around
2. Put T2 back out closer the road as it was years earlier (this will lengthen the backstretch)
3. Morph the front dogleg into a sweeping "D-shape" like PPIR (http://www.ppir.com/PPIRSite/images/art/map_track.gif) which is also a 1-miler.

And what about lights for a Sat night race?

eiregosod
05-07-04, 11:58 PM
When I first started watching IndyCar, the 20 second laps at Nazareth were alien yet superb!!

I dont think the crowd is as full as the pic makes it out to be, on the videos that came with CART precision racing, the footage showed some rather sparse sections near the bottom.

However, something happened to ChampCars in 1998, I dunno, was it NASCAR skyrocketing, at that time Champcar races were comparable in price to attend as NASCAR ones ($20 cheaper) yet the Champcar oval races were over within an hour and a half, where the NASCAR races last for 3 hours plus. I often wondered if the fans felt they were getting value for money champcar-wise

eiregosod
05-08-04, 12:01 AM
As for suggestions, run a 350 mile race

give the cars back the downforce

Brickman
05-08-04, 12:16 AM
I always wondered how many it holds? They never finished the press box...

Well... having witnessed the demise of Riverside...don't know what you've got till it's gone (http://www.sallycooperduo.com/Songlist/Mp3/Big%20Yellow%20Taxi.mp3)



To be ditched for road courses....

cart7
05-08-04, 07:38 AM
Good idea's Chris for the track upgrades. Run the road course wings and you'd have a better race. I always like Nazareth, one of the few ovals that had a serious elevation change in it. Different and challenging but you're right, they've PO'd so many people over the years it'd take an act of God to recreate that 97 attendance photo. BTW. scheduling that race all that time in the spring was crazy what with the wacky weather that time of year there.

pchall
05-08-04, 08:08 AM
As I recall, Nazareth is pretty much land locked. There just isn't any room to widen the track or lengthen it. If there was any room, I bet ISC would have "improved" Naz into a 1.5 mile high banked oval by now and put Pocono out of business.

Skater_36
05-08-04, 09:08 AM
As I recall, Nazareth is pretty much land locked. There just isn't any room to widen the track or lengthen it. If there was any room, I bet ISC would have "improved" Naz into a 1.5 mile high banked oval by now and put Pocono out of business.

They have some room to work with if they cut in to the parking areas. Improvements such as Chris B suggested will have to be made if ISC wants to keep hosting top level events but, I have a feeling that ISC has already made a decision to sell the track.

Madmaxfan2
05-08-04, 11:09 AM
Nazareth can be challenging for on oval, I would agree to widen the track, but also work on an aero package to work with the track. It appears to be a nice track, but iSC will probably ditch it. If a good buyer is found, it could be a candidate for OWRS race :thumbup:

nrc
05-08-04, 01:02 PM
Wasn't dropping Nazareth one of Penske's bitches about CART?

I always liked Nazareth because it was such a challenging oval. Passing really became a problem when CART cut the downforce and lost most of its "blocker cars".

Thank goodness we have Tony to protect the open wheel oval racing tradition.

BZSetshot
05-08-04, 08:03 PM
One of the things we used to hate about going to Nazareth was facing the traffic heading East. Took about 2 hours to get to Naz from NYC and about 4 or 5 to get back to NYC on Sunday Evening. (Ever try crossing Holland, Lincoln, George Washington or Tapanzee on Sunday evening/night to get into Manhattan or Long Island?) Do you think a Saturday race would help?

dando
05-08-04, 09:21 PM
Wasn't dropping Nazareth one of Penske's bitches about CART?

Yup. That and dropping Homestead (both ISC tracks). Ol' Rog was still heavily invested in ISC @ the time. I suspect that dropping these tracks pushed ISC/France to back FTG's old nag. Remember that France was supposedly actively trying to broker peace in the OW nation a year before C^RT pulled out of those tracks.

D@mn straight that the April date for Naz was foolish. April in the northern US (above the Mason-Dixon line) can be 80 one day and snowing the next....if not the same day.

-Kevin