View Full Version : I want to know
Spicoli
05-15-04, 12:14 PM
Just how the CCWS core fans feel about the likes of Blinky, Cookie Boy and SeaBass going to Indy to one-off.
My opinion? You turn your back on CCWS - then you're going to hear from me at a race.
This is all out war, and in war, there is no place for fencesitters, traitors, and opportunists. Stay tru to your series. You are either with us, or against us.
What do you think?
I think Sebastian is a pipe dream from someone with too much time on their hands
dont know who "Cookie Boy" is
Bruno, He's got a contract. He's looking to make money while he's young, he likes to go fast, and he is still in Champcar.
It's the owners who need the rasberry's, they are the one's helping Tony out
Ziggy
I think Sebastian is a pipe dream from someone with too much time on their hands
dont know who "Cookie Boy" is
Bruno, He's got a contract. He's looking to make money while he's young, he likes to go fast, and he is still in Champcar.
It's the owners who need the rasberry's, they are the one's helping Tony out
Ziggy
I don't like "our" drivers doing the 497.5 but contracts are contracts and who knows how they're written but a discriminating driver ,who would rather enhance his survival rate versus his wallet, I would think, would have it written in his contract that he prefer not testing the flight characteristics of a Dallara at indy....especially in Seabass's case where the fortunes of F1 may be beconning some time soon.
Spicoli
05-15-04, 12:31 PM
I think Sebastian is a pipe dream from someone with too much time on their hands
dont know who "Cookie Boy" is
Bruno, He's got a contract. He's looking to make money while he's young, he likes to go fast, and he is still in Champcar.
It's the owners who need the rasberry's, they are the one's helping Tony out
Ziggy
MaYBE.
Servia - "Oreo" Servia.
**** Blinky.
Yes, they are a bunch of scum sucking lowlifes. I hope FatFloyd and Cappy Liverspots burn in a large vat of partially hydrogenated linseed oil.
Al Czervik
05-15-04, 12:31 PM
Just how the CCWS core fans feel about the likes of Blinky, Cookie Boy and SeaBass going to Indy to one-off.
My opinion? You turn your back on CCWS - then you're going to hear from me at a race.
This is all out war, and in war, there is no place for fencesitters, traitors, and opportunists. Stay tru to your series. You are either with us, or against us.
What do you think?
In an ideal world, I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, w/ the EARL's not so transparent attempts to put Champcar out of business, I agree with you. If you try to stay in the middle, you'll get hit from both sides. You are either with us or against us.
girlsRfast2
05-15-04, 01:05 PM
It depends on whether said drivers WANTED to go race the I497.5.
Scenario #1:
Junky: Pleeeease, Carl and Paul, plz plz plz PLEEEEEASE take me to Indy!!!
OR Scenario #2:
Junky: Noooooooo, don't put me in one of those ugly scary crapwagons!
Haas: Ahhh, but I have your CONTRRRRACT, bwaaahaahaaa!
scanman
05-15-04, 01:06 PM
"You are either with us or against us."
This says it all for me...pick a side boys...The only way around
this is to schedule a race on Memorial day weekend...F em...
*shrug*
if they go, I hope they're uninjured so they can come back.
if they go, I hope they whup the field.
sundaydriver2
05-15-04, 04:04 PM
I agree 110% with Spicoli.
FTG and everyone who races there. F'em.
The suspense of poleday is too much. ABC/ESPN doesn't even have the thing on even though they've started to qualify and the leagues T & S isn't working. :rofl:
There's more people at the Hockey game on ABC then are at the track for the first day of quals. TG you dumb **it. :gomer:
Hot Daug
05-15-04, 04:49 PM
As for this year, I don't like it. It just gives them more PR and faces in the "look at us, we're winning" campaign.
As for 2005, hope the powers that be schedule a race in South America or Europe on Memorial day weekend.
Sean O'Gorman
05-15-04, 07:10 PM
If they have no choice, then so be it. If its not going to influence them to leave Champ Car, then so be it. Racers are racers, they want to race. If I had to choose between 15 races or 15 and Indy, I'd go with the 500 as well, regardless of my dislike for the IRL.
I'm not happy about it one bit. But it gets hard to root against 33 drivers during the race. So I guess that makea my race favorite Robbie Gordon. And all the rest can DNF.
pineapple
05-15-04, 10:14 PM
I'm with Spicoli on this. Any of the fools entertaining thoughts about indy should just recite January 28 over and over. Why give succor to the enemy at this time? Carl Haas should be made to drink Tony's holy water. :thumdown:
"You are either with us or against us."
This says it all for me...pick a side boys...
Exactly. Get the **** off the fence :mad:
Railbird
05-16-04, 05:24 AM
"You are either with us or against us."
I think that's a childish load of bulls****
but maybe that's just me
Penske and Ganassi are the same buck chasing whores they were in CART, they'll go whereever the manufacture check books go. Haas is sitting on that fence with a pillow full of Honda bucks to keep him from pinching his ass. Bruno and the rest of the shoes are just doing what they do for a living.
Go ahead and give them hell at a track near you, I'm sure they'll really give a fork.
Anks got it about right
Railbird
05-16-04, 05:27 AM
btw
save a little of your spewage for OWRS
they should have had an event this weekend if they didn't want anyone to go cherry pickin'
I still want an OWRS non-compete clause to once and for all time preclude this fence sitting.
Railbird
05-16-04, 07:23 AM
provide a better place to conduct business for the teams and it will take care of itself.
Spicoli
05-16-04, 10:23 AM
"You are either with us or against us."
I think that's a childish load of bulls****
but maybe that's just me
Penske and Ganassi are the same buck chasing whores they were in CART, they'll go whereever the manufacture check books go. Haas is sitting on that fence with a pillow full of Honda bucks to keep him from pinching his ass. Bruno and the rest of the shoes are just doing what they do for a living.
Go ahead and give them hell at a track near you, I'm sure they'll really give a fork.
Anks got it about right
Evidently, it is "just you".....
OWRS carries "some" blame, but lets cut them some slack this year. We came damn close to not even having a series this year.
Please explain how Junky and the rest contribute anything positive by racing - or winning - in the EARL.
Then I'll explain how it puts a big fat hurt on CCWS.
^ Word!
Note to Junky:
We support you. So why don't you support us?
Railbird
05-16-04, 10:45 AM
Racers race, give Haas and Junky something as profitable to do and it won't happen. Haas isn't in business to do anything other than chase the bucks. Bruno and the rest of the drivers are chasing rides and paydays.
Kinda like racers have always done.
I don't cut CCWS slack but I do spend my time and money attending their races.
Now someone 'splain to me how a bunch of yahoos hanging on the pit fence, or around internet forums, spewing vulgarities helps CCWS.
Get off your *** and attend the races, take a friend if you have any.
If not steal one
Haas isn't in business to do anything other than chase the bucks. Bruno and the rest of the drivers are chasing rides and paydays.
Thats the point. This is about more than money.
Its about what we love. What we live for.
But they would rather make a profit :shakehead
Railbird
05-16-04, 11:08 AM
our hobby
their profession
reality is sometimes a bitch
They used to love it.
Then they soldout; Just like Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, Andretti, Franchitti etc...
We hate them, how is this different?
Diet Kool-aid?
Railbird
05-16-04, 11:22 AM
Hate them?
hell I don't give a damn about them. I wish the situations hadn't came about, but it is what it is.
Make OWRS a more profitable endevor and these things will take care of themselves.
You want loyalty?
buy a dog
You can't buy loyalty. You can only rent it.
We need teams/drivers/fans that will stick around through thick and thin.
Drivers that **** off elseware the minute that there's a better deal don't help!
You either get it, or you don't.
If you get it, you'd rather race lawn mowers than join the circle league.
Railbird
05-16-04, 11:34 AM
I'm still attending Champcar races, have since year one, but I don't make a living at it.
Drivers come and go.
Railbird
05-16-04, 12:02 PM
at what point during their CART tenure was:
Andretti not a whiney little bastard
Ganassi not a self serving blowhard
Penske not a conniving sob
Haas not a profiteer
anyone?
They are no different today so if I didn't give a damn about them then, much less "hate" them, why should I now?
Give Kevin and Gerry some time and they might be able to rebuild the series into something these mercenaries return to.
Then what ya gonna say?
and will they care if you say it?
Spicoli
05-16-04, 04:36 PM
at what point during their CART tenure was:
Andretti not a whiney little bastard
Ganassi not a self serving blowhard
Penske not a conniving sob
Haas not a profiteer
anyone?
They are no different today so if I didn't give a damn about them then, much less "hate" them, why should I now?
Give Kevin and Gerry some time and they might be able to rebuild the series into something these mercenaries return to.
Then what ya gonna say?
and will they care if you say it?
I'm gonna say FU to each and everyone of them.
All you name above are all/were all - part of the problem. I suppose eventually Pimpske & Gan******* will end up part of Na$car's Yoda effort. Leaches.
Andretti? You're right - he was always a massive tool. I'm not sure he even likes himself.
Do they care about us? NFW.
My point is - we don't need guys like that around our series. They about killed it the first go-round.
do I hate them? Yep. My perogative.
having them around the series is fine, having them in a position of control with the series was the problem
if champcar makes it profitable for wankers like that to come around our tracks, then awesome, I don't see being the place to be and race as a problem
fourrunner
05-16-04, 05:14 PM
GEEEZ ... I hate to be Wishy Washy but both Spicoli & Railbird have points...
On one hand I hate these guys for their traitorous behavior ... On the other hand, in retrospect they were always like that.
Of course I would accept them back .... It would be a nail in the IRL's coffin for each one that returned, and MASS SUICIDE at TrackForum would make great TV .... but I could never be a Fan again of these Teams ... it would take a long time for that wound to heal!!
Oh and Penske if you DO come back.... Accidently Leave Helio at the Restaurant on the return trip .... Please!!!
I can't stand when drivers from Champ Car race at InDy. Look what Rahal and Frenandez did to Champ Car when it mattered. They tucked tail and ran to Honda. Champ Car doesn't need to help EARL out by adding drivers to the pathetic field of gomers. Tony sure as hell wasn't in the court room a few months back to help OWR. FTG, Rahal, Fernandez, Penske, Ganassi and the Indy 500!!
Look what Rahal and Frenandez did to Champ Car when it matteredWhen we need cars at the start of the seasom, Tony and his Japanese mates bought our teams.
But when his (now) little race needs teams/drivers, ChampCar is expected to volunteer?!? Bugger that for a joke!
Tony, you made your bed, now lie in it.....
I dont think any team is "volunteer"
Look, this is where the line on the Internet gets a little blurry. Raceteams are race teams. The only guys who for sure are not going to run IMS would be the three amigos. They have a vested interest in Champcar.
I dont know how much money you make, nor do I care, but I would venture to say that Newman/Haas has a ton of money invested in this sport. An amount that would make all your ticket stubs and airplane rides look like a bar tip. Your a fan, Newman/Haas is a race team.
Im I pleased about it. No. I do think Carl did a good job holding out as long as he did. Yes (and I never been a fan of TFB) That IRL team he has is pretty darn good.McGee, Wardrop and Bumps have quite a few winners rings. They know how to order at the Mug and Bun and everything. I might even bet on them, if I can find a bookie in Vegas with good odds. (4 to 1 or better) This economy deal is no joke. Lilly and Pacificare want to run the Indy 500, they pay the bills. Wait, wait, maybe they could tell Lilly and Pacificare to take a hike and you and Spicoli could chip in to pay the bills! Yeah, that sounds like a good idea! Spicoli/Clown Racing! very racey
The other guys, the stock is gone, remember? They have no vested interest, other than the fact road racing is what they do.
So, here is how it works.
A track owner and a promoter get together and establish a purse (this is what you race for) and the sanctioning body lays out the formula. Then they usually have you pre-enter.
A car owner and driver, who is usually under contract, then enter the race to compete for the purse.
How did Bruno's deal come about? Dont know, but I imagine they asked him. I would imagine he said yes. He has done it before (quite well I might ad) and Im sure that any monies won will be total gravy. Now, lets say they give him 50% and he WINS the race. He just made a half million bucks. Plus he just won the Indy 500, something that a couple of guys in his generation, from his neighborhood have done as well. Not to mention the fact that once you win the Indy 500, and I dont care if it is an IRL Indy 500, certain invitations are always going to be there for you. Its a rare club, even if Slow Bud and Eddie are in it.
Now, Fernandez Racing and Rahal Racing are a totally different animal. Here you have teams which gave up on the diverse series which established them, in the eleventh hour. Not to mention the fact that the Lola cars which are needed for new teams to come into Champcar are sitting gathering dust someplace.
I have yet to see a thread to chide Lola into producing a couple dozen new tubs..... maybe its because they do it from a business standpoint, and know a low profit deal when they see one.
Ziggy
This (whole schism) stopped being about business a long time ago.
Its personal, its ideological, its good vs evil. Business is now just spin.
We don't need fence sitters. Either drink the Kool-Aid or say FTG.
FanofMario
05-16-04, 09:57 PM
Interesting thread and great comments by all. I'm bitter about Chippy and LiverSpots and Wineky leaving, but it is Rahal and Fernandez who I absolutely want to hurl over. They abandoned ship at the last moment. That was so wrong in so many ways. :mad:
I guy that I also think gets a "free ride" when these type of threads get started is Mo Nunn. Why isn't he blasted as much as the other whores? :confused:
I'll sort of root for Junky, but I kind of would like to see Robby Gordon win it. If those two can't, I hope it is an oriental that wins. TF would implode!! :p
I guy that I also think gets a "free ride" when these type of threads get started is Mo Nunn. Why isn't he blasted as much as the other whores? :confused:
I don't think he's spewed one bit of rhetoric on how great tony's vision is...if he has, I didn't hear it.
Railbird
05-16-04, 10:50 PM
Nunn is just a racer looking to make a buck and smart enough not to burn bridges.
drink the koolaid or say FTG?
Sorry, I'll continue to think for myself racefan.
I'm not too happy with any of it at this point in time.
Oh come-on!
Name one good thing the grandson has done for the sport?
Railbird
05-16-04, 11:01 PM
other than the improved guard rail?
nothing
now tell me what favorable thing CART did in response to his idiocy.
Hope for Kevin and Gerry to find a way and get your *** to a racetrack if you want to do something more meaningful than beetch on an internet forum.
Hope for Kevin and Gerry to find a way and get your *** to a racetrack if you want to do something more meaningful than beetch on an internet forum.And what the **** is that supposed to mean?
This (whole schism) stopped being about business a long time ago.
Its personal, its ideological, its good vs evil. Business is now just spin.
:rofl:
sure man
Railbird
05-16-04, 11:13 PM
what's that mean?
It means Champcar fans need to hope that Kevin and Gerry get this deal rolling in the proper direction and that said fans should get off their *** and support the series at the tracks.
When they get their arses down here, I'll be there.
( :confused: ;) )
:rofl:
sure man
http://www.lotsofco.org/archives/koolaid.jpg
http://www.lotsofco.org/archives/koolaid.jpg
yep Sherlock, you got me :)
Spicoli
05-17-04, 06:21 AM
Spicoli/Clown Racing!
I liike that. :gomer:
Madmaxfan2
05-17-04, 09:49 AM
Clown is right, the split is continuing despite business principals. IF business principals were governing the situation, there would been unification years ago. The fact is the Hulman-George regime views themselves as the annointed ones to run Open Wheel racing. CART ruined that dream, and when the time they thought was right, the IRL was launched. It's not about money.
Even if the car owners and Honda & Toyota actually influence TG, his perception is he is the boss. That is all that counts.
Spicoli/Clown Racing!
I liike that. :gomer:
I'm driving :D
I have no apologies for my point of view: I have no respect for people who do business with Tony George, who after all has done irreparable damage to the sport. I don't care if it's because it is their profession, because of Honda Bucks, because of sponsorship money, because of ISC stock, or because they can’t get through the year without some Gomerville cornpone.
You can call me immature ‘til hell freezes over, but I’m right.
Spicoli
05-17-04, 11:57 AM
I have no apologies for my point of view: I have no respect for people who do business with Tony George, who after all has done irreparable damage to the sport. I don't care if it's because it is their profession, because of Honda Bucks, because of sponsorship money, because of ISC stock, or because they can’t get through the year without some Gomerville cornpone.
You can call me immature ‘til hell freezes over, but I’m right.
Yes you are.
sundaydriver2
05-17-04, 12:47 PM
I can say piss off to Fatassi, Rahole, Dumb **** Fernadeth, Peniski, and all the other wankers because I'm a fan. I've spent a small fortune going to Champ Car races and bringing newbies to the track. I'm flying to the Vancouver race this year and also attending Milwaukee, and Road America. If they bring back St. Petes for the seeson ender, I'll fly in to see that race as well.
In the end it's the fans that decide what happens. We speak with our dollars and sponsors listen. When the fans decide not to show up for Pole Day and not buy Ingine 500ert tickets, sponsors will start to understand that the moron at 16th and Georgetown really is an idiot and destroying what 90 years of tradition have built up.
Turbos 4 Life
05-17-04, 04:50 PM
I have no gripes about a champcar team going in and taking some of the wind out of Ftg's sails. Hell, even win the race and then tell Ftg to eff off in the winner's circle. Take that borg-warner piece of crap and suplex it to the concrete! That would be sooooo cool!
Madmaxfan2
05-17-04, 04:53 PM
I can say piss off to Fatassi, Rahole, Dumb **** Fernadeth, Peniski, and all the other wankers because I'm a fan. I've spent a small fortune going to Champ Car races and bringing newbies to the track. I'm flying to the Vancouver race this year and also attending Milwaukee, and Road America. If they bring back St. Petes for the seeson ender, I'll fly in to see that race as well.
In the end it's the fans that decide what happens. We speak with our dollars and sponsors listen. When the fans decide not to show up for Pole Day and not buy Ingine 500ert tickets, sponsors will start to understand that the moron at 16th and Georgetown really is an idiot and destroying what 90 years of tradition have built up.
Don't tell TG it's the fans who decides. It might ruin his twenty year plan to grow the sport. It used to be a five year paln, then a ten year plan, and now it's stretched to twenty. The plan has undergone lots of revisions. :gomer:
Mr. Vengeance
05-17-04, 05:08 PM
It rips me to see these 'holes heading to the brickyard... Why add legitimacy to a series that's trying to kill off the one that you make a living from?
Haas' car makes it one closer to the "magic" 33; what could have been the kill-shot from the media gets flopped into a negative for ChampCar... Instead of hacks writing about the crap field and lack of interest they've got the "struggling ChampCar" angle to warp and manipulate.
As far as I'm concerned, if Carl wants to go play with Tony and the gang he can just pack up and FO. And remember what's happened to pretty much every other team that went and did a "one-off"...
At least we know where Newman's going to be.
It rips me to see these 'holes heading to the brickyard... Why add legitimacy to a series that's trying to kill off the one that you make a living from?
Haas' car makes it one closer to the "magic" 33; what could have been the kill-shot from the media gets flopped into a negative for ChampCar... Instead of hacks writing about the crap field and lack of interest they've got the "struggling ChampCar" angle to warp and manipulate.
As far as I'm concerned, if Carl wants to go play with Tony and the gang he just pack up and FO. And remember what's happened to pretty much every other team that went and did a "one-off"...
At least we know where Newman's going to be.
...and to boot, some hack writer for the Chicago Tribune continues to use the phrase, "since the CART boycott"....WHAT BOYCOTT?...tg said 25/8... :shakehead
fourrunner
05-18-04, 12:41 AM
...and to boot, some hack writer for the Chicago Tribune continues to use the phrase, "since the CART boycott"....WHAT BOYCOTT?...tg said 25/8... :shakehead
Part of the revision history the teenage IRL dweebs were fed that somehow became fact....
Let's see, you tell an entire series (CART)that to enter the Indy 500 you have to run a Team in the IRL or your 25 car series can only compete for the remaining eight spots left after the IRL hack teams get the free pass.
More of a "Half Lockout" than a boycott, if you have half a brain!
Penske , Ganassi & "Andretti the Mediocre" all supported the refusal of the series to cave to the blackmail, yet now they kneel at Tony's feet and "Fluff Away" !
Peter Venkman
05-19-04, 11:11 AM
"Penske and Ganassi are the same buck chasing whores they were in CART, they'll go whereever the manufacture check books go."
Hard to find truer words....
sundaydriver2
05-19-04, 11:12 PM
What happened to the post by Railbird?
I had a question about that post.
:confused:
Railbird
05-20-04, 06:27 AM
well, I would guess I expressed my feelings a little too strongly.
no harm, no foul.
but I am glad at least someone saw it
Spicoli
05-20-04, 07:14 AM
Hmmm. Several posts gone.
"Trubble?" :saywhat:
Hmmm. Several posts gone.
"Trubble?" :saywhat:
Never a good sign.... :shakehead
RaceGrrl
05-20-04, 12:17 PM
One thing I've learned about WickerBill is that he runs a pretty tight ship. He expects us to act like grownups and if he thinks we cross the line, he closes the thread, deletes the post, or deletes the thread and sometimes bans the offender.
I've posted things that have been deleted, and the truth is that I knew when I posted it that I might be crossing the line. OC has always been a refuge for me from the cacophony of the other racing forums. Overall, I think we all seem to do a fine job of discussing things without being crappy to each other.
Just my .02
And the best part about WB's moderating - he does it quietly. No snide commentary, no grandstanding, just a thread quietly kept friendly and on topic.
Railbird
05-20-04, 12:45 PM
very much agreed.
TravelGal
05-20-04, 01:22 PM
very much agreed.
Ditto, although sometimes it does create the Twilight Zone Effect. As in "I'm SURE I saw....." and then it's not there. :laugh:
As to the topic. I used to not care a bit if Champ Car drivers did the I495. There were a lot of them and they did well. Then they screwed PT and I saw the deal for what it really is. After that, they can burrow themselves into the ground for all I care. But, in fact, I don't care.
One thing I've learned about WickerBill is...if he thinks we cross the line, he closes the thread, deletes the post, or deletes the thread...
Ditto, although sometimes it does create the Twilight Zone Effect. As in "I'm SURE I saw....." and then it's not there. :laugh:
So that's why I can't find JT's attachments. ;) :p
fourrunner
05-20-04, 04:58 PM
So that's why I can't find JT's attachments. ;) :p
about JT's attachments .... can they be unattached also? .... sounds very convenient! ;)
So that's why I can't find JT's attachments. ;) :p
Simple fix. Just show up in TO wearing that skimpy halter or a microtype bikini like Warlock asked for.
And all will be well. :D
And 4,
FYI- My name AIN'T Butch. ;)
(or Vic Rauter for that matter)
Robstar
05-20-04, 09:07 PM
And the best part about WB's moderating - he does it quietly. No snide commentary, no grandstanding, just a thread quietly kept friendly and on topic.
Chi-Ching :thumbup:
EDwardo
05-22-04, 06:13 AM
It was fun for a couple of years for some CART teams to show up and lay some smack on the Earl. But now, showing up just helps bolster a lackluster field. I don't blame the drivers though. I blame the owners who have entered cars and have the drivers under a contract that requires them to race.
Having said that, I hope they kick some @ss. And I fervently hope that they return unscathed to ChampCar.
And if Blinky gets held up, or happens upon the Safer wall, I can't wait for him to tell the world how it's PT's fault.
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