Could Champcar come to save Indy?

[Andrew Longman]

No one was there this weekend. Not in the stands and they didn't even get close to 33 cars to make qualifying attempts on the track

Worse, no one cared that there was no one there.

For the first time, the Indy 500 really feels like it is totally and completely dead, not just badly wounded.

Americans and the world does not care about the IRL or its drivers.

Many say that the 500 will go to NASCAR before too long but that would mean trading the Coca Cola 600 (possible, since its not a ISC track), and giving up all the traditional qualifying hoopla (possible since no one cares, but its part of what makes indy special), and probably moving the NASCAR All Star race to Indy (or another date) since that's were the team will be in May (possible since NASCAR has talked about screwing around with it before).

But Americans are saying that they like NASCAR more than the I500. If the I500 is to regain its place it must capture the imagination of the world. Oddly, that will mean international drivers promoted via great fan friendly domestic and international races and coverage. Sounds like Champcar to me.

Funny, I don't think that's the vision TG had in mind, but it may be his only option in short order.

Of course, it will only happen if OWRS minds its own business and TG finally needs Champcar more than Champcar needs Indy (which really is not at all at this point).

[racer2c]

Of course Champ Car could save Indy. Tony has known this for years and that is why he and his ho's paid to have Champ Car teams join his party.
He could have just asked. :gomer:

[CARTNUT]

IRL is now CART from the past, but 3 problems still exist: Tony George is still involved, the engine mfgrs still run the series, and the cars are still butt ugly (uglier.) No wonder nobody cares. Let it die.

LONG LIVE CHAMPCAR!!! :thumbup:

[Chaos]

i think if you asked this question 2-3 years ago, i'd be inclined to agree. But IRL (generally speaking) has the drivers, the cars, the team owners, and the the majority of the open wheel sponsors...and things do not look to be improving from my vantage point.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Unfortunately, Champ Car back at Indy probably wouldn't do anything to reverse the trend of obscurity for the race. Open wheel racing in the US needs to be overhauled in a big way before anything will improve.

[audi quattro]

It's not champcar that the I500 needs, it's the champcar fans who are utterly against FTG.

Until that idiot makes some conciliatory gestures, rather than trying to buy CART, all the champcar fans will still dislike him.

As long as he is involved, I will never be a fan.

[Chaos]

was 1979 this bad?

[pchall]

was 1979 this bad?

No


Tony George needs to make amends with the fans. Honda and Toyota should give him ceremonial short blades and an instruction book.

[oddlycalm]

Until that idiot makes some conciliatory gestures, rather than trying to buy CART, all the champcar fans will still dislike him.

As long as he is involved, I will never be a fan.

There are also serious social and cultural differences between the fan groups as well. It's not an accident that we find Track Forum so amusing.It's not just TG and the IMS management. The few fans the IRL has have little in common with traditional CART fans, and the differences are much more basic than racing preferences. They are two totally different demographic groups.

This is why there was so much animosity after CART took the 500 away from USAC. The roadracing oriented crowd was very different socially, and the hardcore locals felt like something of theirs was stolen by outsiders. Well, they have it back all to themselves now, and the fact is that their dumbed down vision of racing simply does not have appeal that is broader than a few counties in Central Indiana. It has singularly failed to gain any traction at any of the other IRL venues outside of Texas, and I don't think it ever will.

I can't see how OWRS fielding cars for the 500 would solve anything for anyone. My take on it is that TG as inflicted a fatal wound to his own event.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

i think if you asked this question 2-3 years ago, i'd be inclined to agree. But IRL (generally speaking) has the drivers, the cars, the team owners, and the the majority of the open wheel sponsors...and things do not look to be improving from my vantage point.

But he has no fans almost no races that attract fans.

Even casual race fans are NASCAR fans these days

Worse, he has anti-fans. Legions of folks that are mad as hell at him. Paul Newman even talked about how angry at TG fans at LB were. What other sport actually has anti-fans? Not just people that don't like the sport, but actively hate it? Is there an NBA equivilant to Crapwagon.com? Would people actually throw beercans at Paul Taliabue?

Champcar puts butts in seats all over NA and in Australia. Korea, UK and South America can't be far off (if OWRS succeeds at all). If Indy is ever going to recover it past glory (and maybe it shouldn't) this betting man would rather bet on international race fans than NASCAR fans coming to "know what winning Indy means" (no apolgies to Lil Al).

But if I was really a betting man I'd say nothing is gonna save Indy.

[Dougrun]

Americans and the world does not care about the IRL or its drivers.

Exactly. It's not rocket science folks. NASCAR succeeds because
1. Ameican Drivers
2. American engines
3. American Sponsors
4. American races.

IRL:
Foreign and american drivers
Foreign Engines
Foreign and domestic sponsors
American races (with motegi exception) but all oval.

OWRS:
Foreign and american drivers (we need more americans).
Ameican Engines (or branded that way at least)
Foreign and domestic sponsors
International races with most in the U.S. and wide variety.

This is why OWRS is so huge outside the U.S.. The IRL just never got the formula correct because of greed. I think F1 needs to find another venue for the US Grand Prix ASAP.

[Madmaxfan2]

No


Tony George needs to make amends with the fans. Honda and Toyota should give him ceremonial short blades and an instruction book.


Actually, Indy in the mid-70's was not that great, and there many parallels. In my view, only the numbers of this year's race are worse. the quality of the entries is comparable. The speed differental between the pole speed this year and in the mid 70's will probably be similiar. As far as ChampCar saving Indy, Tony would rather have NASCAR take over with tintops or plow the racetrack under than let OWRS in. It really is a moot question as long as Tony is in charge.

[cart7]

I'm betting Tony probably thought the ex-Cart teams coming over would save Indy. Too bad it back-fired. He fails to realize the extreme dislike of he and his product on this side of the fence. He'll next attempt to steal road & street circuits away from CCWS, again, in an ill fated attempt to draw attention and fans from here over to his side. It won't work. Let Indy die. I can live without it.

[ChampcarShark]

I think F1 needs to find another venue for the US Grand Prix ASAP.

They do. Bernie is looking into Long Beach to replace that track in indiana.

[GOFAST1]

This is the first year that we finally got rid of all that indy crap once and for all. It's a great track. Unfortunately, it died in 1995, because they insulted fans like me, and I will never go back. I will never pay money to see their race anywhere, and I don't care anymore. After ten years, as tough as things are for champcar, at least I know it's not fabricated racing. It doesn't insult my intelligence. The drivers are superb. Next Sunday there is a race in Mexico on a beautiful road course, and we go on to cheer on the great world championship. After all this time, all the traders beleive when they went for money we should follow it like we're stupid morons or something. Show them with your wallet as they see already at indy... Fans matter! Go champcar! Go Sebastien!

[Amanda B.'s Mom]

A friend, who is very much into Champ Cars suggested this possibility to me.....And I am not approving of violence to make things change!

TG is given a ride in a two seater. There is mechanical failure, the car crashes, leaving TG in a coma. He comes out of it with no problems except a huge memory loss. He has no recollection of IRL, only USAC! OWR ends up renting the track for a Memorial Day race in 2005. The name of the race???? The Memorial Occupation!

I really had to laugh at that one!!!! But some people like to dream.

[jonovision_man]

Exactly. It's not rocket science folks. NASCAR succeeds because
1. Ameican Drivers
2. American engines
3. American Sponsors
4. American races.

IRL:
Foreign and american drivers
Foreign Engines
Foreign and domestic sponsors
American races (with motegi exception) but all oval.

OWRS:
Foreign and american drivers (we need more americans).
Ameican Engines (or branded that way at least)
Foreign and domestic sponsors
International races with most in the U.S. and wide variety.

This is why OWRS is so huge outside the U.S.. The IRL just never got the formula correct because of greed. I think F1 needs to find another venue for the US Grand Prix ASAP.

OWRS isn't really that huge outside the U.S...

Even here in Canada the races do quite well, but NASCAR and F1 get higher TV ratings! (I know, :thumdown: Canada, but amazingly it's true)

From Toronto Star:
Last year, TSN aired 16 NASCAR races, averaging 206,000 viewers — 55,000 more than Formula One, more than double the Champ Car average of 92,000 and almost five times the IRL's 45,000.

So 92,000 in a country of 30,000,000... not horrible, but it's not really the smashing success people seem to think it is.

jono

[Railbird]

TG pulled his move at just exactly the wrong time.

Ziggy and I were talking about it this weekend, with all the old heroes retiring the sport needed a massive marketing push to keep the momentum going.

instead we got the split.

As far as Indy is concered he ignored the need for continuity. He broke the string with the common fan ("where's Michael and Little Al?" was a common question from raceday-only fans for a couple years) and now he's trying to ride something that is long gone.

Unfortunely at this point in time the only thing that would bring Indy back would be Jeffy, Lil E and Stewart on the entry.

I'm thinking that might happen in the not too distant future.

complete with roofs

[Clown]

OH boo-friggin-hoo, not enough 'mericans :rolleyes:
You guys whine like Blinky.
If the only reason you support a driver is because your mothers happened to be located in the same country at the time of your respective births, then your not a true fan :shakehead

[Robstar]

I think you missed the point Clownie...
More American drivers would create interest in the series among casual US race fans...

[Ankf00]

OH boo-friggin-hoo, not enough 'mericans :rolleyes:
You guys whine like Blinky.
If the only reason you support a driver is because your mothers happened to be located in the same country at the time of your respective births, then your not a true fan :shakehead

of course, cuz it's not a business right?

why is the tour de france on the average american's mind?

because an american won it. an austinite at that. damn skippy.

of course cuz it's not business, all the true fans will magically flock to Champ Car despite its total obscurity on the american sports scene, oh ya, that's the ticket to success. :rolleyes:
because there's SO many of us in the first place, not that I care if it's a frenchman or an american, but an american fan base depends upon Champ Car developing some home heroes to gain some schmoes...

[dando]

OH boo-friggin-hoo, not enough 'mericans :rolleyes:
You guys whine like Blinky.
If the only reason you support a driver is because your mothers happened to be located in the same country at the time of your respective births, then your not a true fan :shakehead
I think the point is for the casual fan to be attracted to the series, Joe 6-pack or the kid down the street need someone with which they can identify. Plus, a little national pride doesn't hurt...I seem to recall a number of Spanish flags flying @ the Grand Prix of Spain. C^RT was @ it's best when the likes of Emmo and Mansell (just to name a couple) duked it out with a few of the local boys.

-Kevin

[RTKar]

OH boo-friggin-hoo, not enough 'mericans :rolleyes:
You guys whine like Blinky.
If the only reason you support a driver is because your mothers happened to be located in the same country at the time of your respective births, then your not a true fan :shakehead

Webber fan are you?

[lone_groover]

FUN FACT:

Between 1978 and 1993, the 500GP Championship, the top tier of world motorcycling, was won by USA-Americans THIRTEEN times.

In the SIXTEEN year history of the World Superbike Championship, EIGHT World Titles have been won by Natives of the USA.


Interest among stupid gringos: ZERO

:cry:

[Ankf00]

FUN FACT:

Between 1978 and 1993, the 500GP Championship, the top tier of world motorcycling, was won by USA-Americans THIRTEEN times.

In the SIXTEEN year history of the World Superbike Championship, EIGHT World Titles have been won by Natives of the USA.


Interest among stupid gringos: ZERO

:cry:

care to quote CART numbers? or do those look too inconclusive to defend that point?

[pineapple]

I think the point is for the casual fan to be attracted to the series, Joe 6-pack or the kid down the street need someone with which they can identify. Plus, a little national pride doesn't hurt...I seem to recall a number of Spanish flags flying @ the Grand Prix of Spain. C^RT was @ it's best when the likes of Emmo and Mansell (just to name a couple) duked it out with a few of the local boys.

-Kevin

I would agree with that - to an extent. One can take your statements and with a few slight twists fit them to apply to any country.

OWRS is an international series and it needs to attract the casual fans worldwide, but especially in the countries it visits. The Mexican, Brazilian, Canadian, French versions of Joe 6-pack and the kids down the street probably feel that they need someone with whom they can identify, too. A little national pride doesn't hurt on other shores either: you can be sure that the Mexican fans at the tracks love it when the likes of Vasser and Hunter-Reay duke it out with a few of their local boys, too. The German fans find a driver to support as do the Australian fans, that's telling me something.

If it is as many here are saying, that OWRS has lost a large portion of its primary fanbase in America, then that means the series will be forced to expand its fanbase in international venues - and hope its American fanbase can expand its horizons and start rooting for the future stars of the series without nationality clouding their favoritism.

The bottom line is OWRS needs fans - of any stripe - in order to survive. IMO, to continue to view the series from an Ameri-centric standpoint is shortsighted in these times.

BTW - Zanardi was my all-time number one. Seb, Jourdain and Vasser are now my faves, while Allmendinger, Dominguez and Wilson are fast gaining my support and attention. I'm an American who has no trouble showing my international favoritism because each of these guys has something that I like besides their respective nationality.

[4wheeldrifter]

My take on it is that TG as inflicted a fatal wound to his own event.
oc

It really is beginning to look like it is a truly fatal wound. The life support machines keeping the patient alive are owned by others who have no fidelity to the patient. Waiting for them to leave one by one and watch the last of the bodily functions cease. Sorry for the analogy, but this is sad. :shakehead

I don't really see a way out of it. I see Tony going down with the ship.

[JT265]

OWRS isn't really that huge outside the U.S...

Even here in Canada the races do quite well, but NASCAR and F1 get higher TV ratings! (I know, :thumdown: Canada, but amazingly it's true)

From Toronto Star:
Last year, TSN aired 16 NASCAR races, averaging 206,000 viewers — 55,000 more than Formula One, more than double the Champ Car average of 92,000 and almost five times the IRL's 45,000.

So 92,000 in a country of 30,000,000... not horrible, but it's not really the smashing success people seem to think it is.

jono

And who, besides possibly yourself, Anait and Devilmaster would subject themselves to the inane ramblings of Vic OH MY! Rauter to dial in that crap called TSN when you could watch Speed?

Lets fold in the numbers from Speed and the Global broadcasts and see what it looks like.

Also, to confuse the issue even more, I've spent a lot of time in Europe the last few years, and never missed a race on Eurosport. Yet last May, even tho' I had access to four sports channels, I had to get on the internet to find out who won the Marion County 500.

So, how come a sport that "isn't really that huge outside the U.S...
" <-- your words: outside of the US is so readily available, yet the "Greatest Debacle in Racing" <-- my words: isn't covered?

[P1]

No worries lads it's all part of the vision! :laugh:

But seriously, it's done as the "greatest spectacle in racing" and will never regain that status if it ever had it to begin with. I suppose I'll cut a little slack and think WAY back when some of elite euro drivers would come across to enter one-off, but those glory days are long since dead and will never again happen. Crapwagons going roundy-round 500 miles -- the only folks interested are those fans of bloodsport waiting for the big shunt.