View Full Version : Did the Race Seem "Slow" to Anyone Else?
Insomniac
05-23-04, 06:16 PM
Watching the race on TV, this race didn't have the usual fast paced feel. I felt like I was waching the cars drive around on a yellow track most of the day. Anyone else feel this way?
Rogue Leader
05-23-04, 06:18 PM
Watching the race on TV, this race didn't have the usual fast paced feel. I felt like I was waching the cars drive around on a yellow track most of the day. Anyone else feel this way?
I agree... I hate full course cautions... after watching Monaco this morning, seeing the safety car once (and seeing the safety car is SUPER rare), F1 is much faster paced, then again champ cars tracks lend to the cars returning and it would be near imposible to get the safety crew to get the car started without full course cautions..
Insomniac
05-23-04, 06:32 PM
I agree... I hate full course cautions... after watching Monaco this morning, seeing the safety car once (and seeing the safety car is SUPER rare), F1 is much faster paced, then again champ cars tracks lend to the cars returning and it would be near imposible to get the safety crew to get the car started without full course cautions..
I was thinking maybe it seemed slow because of the F1 race. But I know it isn't the first time I've watched both on the same day. I hoping it was the TV coverage. We'll see how the next couple of races look with the US broadcaters.
I think it was the camera angles. The cars definately did not look as fast as they usually do - and they were actually turning the fastest laps ever run in Monterrey.
the on-track sounds were pretty quiet too. i think that makes a difference.
The races with the foreign feed tend to look and sound less exciting. Plus the Spike crew had no control over what was being seen so we missed Tags charging through the field, and plenty of other passes.
It also doesn't help when Jenkins sounds like he'd rather be somewhere else.
Dr. Corkski
05-23-04, 07:55 PM
It just seemed slow because TV Azteca keep showing shots of Lavin.
Yes it did, mentioned pretty much the same thing in the good , the bad and the ugly thread.
Insomniac
05-23-04, 08:15 PM
I'm glad it wasn't me. :)
I noticed it too, and I've decided it's due to a number of reasons. The shots of the cars at speed on the straightaways were almost always shown from a distance at the end of the straight. We pretty much only saw side shots in the slow corners. Plus the track is wide, so you lose some perception of speed there.
It probably seemed even slower to me since I had been watching my tape of the Monaco GP and stopped it at 3:59.
Didn't help that at one point I recall the average race speed was 80 some miles an hour...on a course that wide open.... :shakehead ...might as well have another dumb *** street race.
Methanolandbrats
05-23-04, 09:28 PM
The cars were slow, the sound sucked, camera angle editing was boring and the announcers seemed sedated.
Slow, pathetic and sad all come to mind. This race shows just how far Champcar has fallen. When one of the highlights is some Wild on Bront"E!" type story, that doesn't bode well for Champcars future (although there could be a potential new career for Bronte out of it). Listnening to the announcers speak of pit strategy and knowing it could put some hack like Lavin on a podium is enough to make you want to puke. Fortunately, it didn't happen today, but these pit rules will allow that before the year is out. I'm not sure how you fix it, but it seems like every attempt at limiting the pit strategy ends up creating more strategy and luck into who wins. Somehow, Champcar has to get back to the way things used to be done with local yellows only. I am not expecting the daredevel like tactics as witnessed in Monaco today, but can we get some of these hacks bump started without a full course yellow or in one lap instead of 3-4?
The spectacle of road course racing has just about been taken away in the interest of safety. When even a simple spin hundreds of feet off the track ends up in multiple laps under yellow, its no wonder interest in the sport has gone down. Between the full course yellows and the pit lane speed limits which make green flag stops so much more time consuming, its no wonder the speed you actually race at is less important.
Champcar needs to implement as soon as possible:
No dumb pit rules
Full course yellows only as a last resort
On board starters for all, but mostly for the frequent spins by drivers who couldn't win in TA.
A new chassis that is less aero affected.
I realize it is a rebuilding year and I still look forward to seeing how well AJ will do, but if some of these things are not fixed, eventually there won't be anything left to fix.
I've about had it with the ridiculous full-course yellows. :flame:
This is a pro-level racing series and if ANYONE skitters off the track anywhere, the whole d*mn thing comes to a halt. CART has done this for years and it leads to boring races, contrived results that have more to do with luck than performance, and time overruns.
If you can't throw a local yellow and trust these pro's to avoid the workers in the grass then someone hasn't done their job.
redmist
05-23-04, 10:44 PM
i don't mind the fcy's, at least it bunches things up for a couple of laps. look at longbeach, there weren't any besides the first lap cluster****, and the race was a snoozer. hell even back in the glory years they had lot's of fcy's. what they need to get rid of is the pit rules, just pit when you want, yellow, green,whatever.
Rogue Leader
05-23-04, 10:49 PM
i don't mind the fcy's, at least it bunches things up for a couple of laps. look at longbeach, there weren't any besides the first lap cluster****, and the race was a snoozer. hell even back in the glory years they had lot's of fcy's. what they need to get rid of is the pit rules, just pit when you want, yellow, green,whatever.
if someone hits something then yes Full Course Yellow, but otherwise for these stupid spins into the sand, its retarded. Although yes its nice to bunch up the field, a local yellow will sometimes do that also. I agree on the pit rules, last years pit rules are much better, this year lends itself to using manipulation and dumb luck to win a race. The fact that Lavin could have won the race like that is disgusting, he sucks.
BTW te most exciting for me was watching Dominguezes in-car on race director, if TV Azteca was bent on sticking to Mexiacans they should have stuck to him!! The race would have been a home run!
Death of ChampCar predicted, story at 11. :rolleyes:
Bah. You saw a different race than I did. Pit strategy has always threatened to cheat the fastest car. ChampCar has handled full course yellows the same way for ages. There are few places "hundreds of feet off the track" at Fundadora and I don't recall seeing any such cases today.
Good race. Poor coverage.
Rogue Leader
05-23-04, 10:55 PM
Death of ChampCar predicted, story at 11. :rolleyes:
Bah. You saw a different race than I did. Pit strategy has always threatened to cheat the fastest car. ChampCar has handled full course yellows the same way for ages. There are few places "hundreds of feet off the track" at Fundadora and I don't recall seeing any such cases today.
Good race. Poor coverage.
Pit strategy is one thing, these pit rules can practically invert the field halfway through the race.. thats LAME IMO....
I agree... Good race POOR coverage...
Railbird
05-23-04, 11:10 PM
the full course yellows need to be limited and handled much more quickly when they are necessary.
imo they really interrupted the flow of the race today
If a guy spins on lap 2, there does not need to be a 3 lap full course yellow, if it take a minute 1/2 per lap and 40 seconds to get him refired. Champcar needs to lower the damn full course yellows. I didn't watch the whole race because of this BS, and it's been 3+ years like this. I hate to say this, but I may watch an IRL race instead of the yellow street fest if they go head to head........ :shakehead
The 20 or so laps I saw absolutely sucked. Worst then bump day. :thumdown:
The 20 or so laps I saw absolutely sucked. Worst then bump day. :thumdown:
You mean scam day?
I didn't watch the whole race because of this BS, and it's been 3+ years like this. I hate to say this, but I may watch an IRL race instead of the yellow street fest if they go head to head........ :shakehead
Heh. Then go watch the IRL. :laugh:
Yeah. Needs improvement. But the last three years haven't been that much different than since when they first made the decision to use full course cautions more. The biggest difference is the field, not the procedures. Take out Nelson Phillipe and you're at about average for a temporary course. And yes, whatever they may call it FP is a temporary course when it comes to runoff.
RaceGrrl
05-24-04, 12:17 AM
I hate to say this, but I may watch an IRL race instead of the yellow street fest if they go head to head........ :shakehead
The 20 or so laps I saw absolutely sucked. Worst then bump day.
I'm sure the IRL will be happy to have one more fan added to the hundreds that enjoy watcing their "yellow-for-debris" laden races.
:rolleyes:
today was definately a slow race, FCY's for waaaaay too long after someone goes into a spin
the onboard cams on race director showed dominguez and vasser at pace though, so at least that was exciting even if the TV cameras showed ****ty shots
Nosuchsoul
05-24-04, 01:13 AM
His freaking car caught on fire!!! Jesus, what does A.J. have to do? At least he outqualified Michel again.
Nosuchsoul
05-24-04, 01:18 AM
Oh yeah, a couple of times during the race I did doublecheck to see if the yellow was out since it seemed like the drivers were at a pace me and my Saturn could be competitive.................................well not on the straights. Oh yeah, here is an idea, let's have Adrian back............but he has to drive the two seater! And to make it worse, with the original Mercedes engine! :gomer:
JohnHKart
05-24-04, 03:11 AM
Watching the race on TV, this race didn't have the usual fast paced feel. I felt like I was waching the cars drive around on a yellow track most of the day. Anyone else feel this way?
I felt this way too....but felt it was because I watched the race right after I watched the tape of Monaco. This has happened before...F1 cars are so fast, even on the tight confines of Monaco, the spectacle simply reduces a Champ Car race to a slow paced crawl. In fact, I haven't watched it yet, but I will be even the Nextel Cup race will seem faster than the Champ Car race this time. I am a Champ Car fan, but god this one was an excruciating bore because of the F1/Champ Car problem.
John
4wheeldrifter
05-24-04, 07:34 AM
It just seemed slow because TV Azteca keep showing shots of Lavin.
Yep, I noticed that too. Passes for position would be interupted half way through for shots of the leader or Lavin. All in all though, a good race.
And I agree that after watching F1 in the morning, Champcars do seem slow. ChrisB....?
BTW.,.. the FCY's have got to go.
Andrew Longman
05-24-04, 09:37 AM
This track has seemed slow since it opened. I prior years they talked about the track being dusty and lacking grip. It was like driving on ice.
I didn't here talk of that this year, but something (possibly including the camera angles) makes the car look slow on this curcuit.
Doesn't help that watching F1 bouncing off the curbs in Monaco looks so cool.
As usual, I watched both the F1 and Champcar races yesterday... and it's the same ol' thing... the F1 cars look soooooo much quicker than the Champcars.
Yes, camera angles have a lot to do with it.
But I can't help but feel that the biggest reason is that CWS is still using 750hp/1550lb cars better suited to early-90's oval racing while F1 is using 1100lb cars with about 850-900 hp.
THAT's the reason I keep saying to dump the oval(s) and go whole-hog on a new design for a superfast RR-specific Champcar!
His freaking car caught on fire!!! Jesus, what does A.J. have to do? At least he outqualified Michel again.
What does A.J. have to do? Stay off the pit wall and things will come around. ;)
racer2c
05-24-04, 09:57 AM
Pathetic is the last word I would use to describe the race. During the race my wife said, "they seem slow today". I replied that I thought it was because most camera angles were straight on shots which makes a top fuel dragster look like it's being pushed.
It's not the greatest track either and can't they do something about the slipperiness? But if you paid attention to the in car cameras, the guys were really fighting the edge out there.
I'm surprised by PT's performance.
I think P2P should be 100hp.
Now if Adrian had only been there. :shakehead
Old3Fan
05-24-04, 11:50 AM
what they need to get rid of is the pit rules, just pit when you want, yellow, green,whatever.
:thumbup: Finally, some one gets it. :thumbup:
RaceGrrl
05-24-04, 11:59 AM
It's not the greatest track either and can't they do something about the slipperiness? But if you paid attention to the in car cameras, the guys were really fighting the edge out there.
We knew that the TV Azteca coverage wasn't going to be great, but watching the in-cars was part of what made it so interesting me.
Pathetic? I guess it's what you make of it. I don't watch F1, so I make no comparisons between ChampCar and Formula 1, hence less disappointment for me than for those who watch both.
I would have been happier with better coverage, but we know that's not going to happen in Mexico. Not in the near future anyway. I'll take what I can get.
Insomniac
05-24-04, 12:07 PM
We knew that the TV Azteca coverage wasn't going to be great, but watching the in-cars was part of what made it so interesting me.
Pathetic? I guess it's what you make of it. I don't watch F1, so I make no comparisons between ChampCar and Formula 1, hence less disappointment for me than for those who watch both.
I would have been happier with better coverage, but we know that's not going to happen in Mexico. Not in the near future anyway. I'll take what I can get.
I personally wasn't trying to compare the two. This is the first time for me that I felt the race was in a perpetual state of yellow. It just didn't feel like a ChampCar race and I definitely agree with most here that it was because of the coverage. I also know TV Azteca was the host broadcaster. I just hope the sole reason for the way I felt was them and not the production of the race. We'll see in 2 weeks.
ferrarigod
05-24-04, 12:22 PM
I love ChampCar, and I'm not trying to get into an arguement, b/c I'm just giong to say the facts.
Formula 1 looks faster because of 2 things, 1 it is, and 2 it was a smaller street circuit.
Even without the street circuit though F1 looks banzai compared to ChampCar.
ChampCar is great, and incredibly fast, but F1 is in its own universe. Thats the truth, no comparison needed
RaceGrrl
05-24-04, 12:44 PM
Since I don't watch F1, I don't make comparisons. "Facts" like your F1/ChampCar comparison are meaningless to me.
oddlycalm
05-24-04, 01:23 PM
After the pit stops shook out, and contrary to the many predictions to the contrary, the fast cars were in front, the slow cars were at the rear, and we saw a drive by Bordais that was awesome by any standards. The coverage didn't show that to it's best advantage, but it was a hell of a drive. :thumbup:
No big surprise that the TV Azteca coverage sucked in a number of ways, but it's still hard not to feel disappointed. I have to agree on the length of the full coarse yellows. While I think the world of the work the Simple Green Safety Team does, they aren't why I watch Champcar racing.
oc
Watching it on Race Director, I thought the race was pretty good actually...
It's not a particularly fast circuit, with low grip and only one truly quick corner. Plus, the lack of any objects around the cars takes away all effects of the speed - compared to Monaco...
Plus, if you were watching the F1 race before, the acceleration and braking of F1 cars is far superior to the Champcars - thus, it would look slow if you watched one and then the other. With the close surroundings of Monaco - you could really see and feel the speed as the cars blasted around the track. Very different from Monterrey
F1 looks banzai compared to ChampCar
That's an excellent way to say it! F1 just plain looks like those guys are driving at a whole 'nother level ... the absolute edge of of human ability... Champcar doesn't. I wish it did.
Sean O'Gorman
05-24-04, 02:41 PM
F1 looks banzai compared to ChampCar
That's an excellent way to say it! F1 just plain looks like those guys are driving at a whole 'nother level ... the absolute edge of of human ability... Champcar doesn't. I wish it did.
Maybe it has something to do with the courses that are being run on.
ferrarigod
05-24-04, 03:07 PM
Maybe it has something to do with the courses that are being run on.
While that is true, the Ford engine isn't as powerful as when the competition was still here, and clearly that has had a huge effect on sound and speed of the cars.
I don't fault ChampCar or Ford for it, but F1 goes faster, thats a fact, Montreal proves that.
ChampCars still would go too fast for Monaco, and going through the swimming pool would look just as stupid for a ChampCar at speed as it does a F1 car at speed. 160+mph in that swimming pool area is nuts. Watching F1 at Monaco is a pleasure.
How about a ChampCar support race :thumbup:
Insomniac
05-25-04, 08:20 AM
I agree F1 is faster, but I've never see ChampCar look slow. I honestly felt it was yellow all day and the only thing that makes sense was the coverage. It just didn't look like they were racing out there even though they were. I'm looking forward to the next race.
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