Wow.

[Spicoli]

This is completely wack if true. I heard this 2nd hand, but it makes sense. Again - its from a "somewhat" reliable source.

Word out of Indy is that OWRS is planning on dropping a bomb on the final 2 CCWS defectors/traitors (that would be Rahole & Fernandeth) by putting some kind of "legal action" or something into play in the next couple days. Bottom line it would cripple them and make it impossible for them to start the I500 this weekend.

Evidently both guys had signed papers PRIOR to the Long Beach preview saying they would participate in CCWS with a certain "assistance" package provided by CCWS. But at the same time they had signed deals with Homoco & EARL to run the EARL Series/League with those particular cars/drivers. So, as explained to me, they then went to KK at LB Preview and basically tried to extort even more money from OWRS, and he finally said "See Ya". Then Bobby got caught in his lie about "Sponsors want this and that" B.S.

Anyway - I remember hearing talk of some former team member leaving one of those teams anfd spilling the beans to OWRS about both of those guys having signed with EARL before LB Preview - maybe this all come together now?

The important part about what this guy was saying is that the "legal action" would put the heavy hand on the Gomer 500, and could cause big problems for the (is it 5?) cars those 2 guys have, and would embarrass the show.

I say good. TG and those dirty jagoffs deserve it.

Does this make sense? :confused: Comments?

[Chaos]

Unless the owner's took money and didnt give it back, i dont see how they can be stopped to run Indy.

[Wabbit]

That would be funny if the pole sitter couldn't race. Doubt it would happen in Indiana though.

[RTKar]

I would think if there was any breach of contract , it would have come out already, KK doesn't seem the type to wait to play games. Although waiting to just before the 497.5 would be poetic justice.

[DjDrOmusic]

But posting it on a forum to tip off TG and his minons??? That just gives them time to prepare if it does happen. :confused:

[BNica]

But posting it on a forum to tip off TG and his minons??? That just gives them time to prepare if it does happen. :confused:


That would be really funny if it happened. I could see FAF and Raholio
:cry:

[mueber]

We don't need to allienate them. If there is any truth to this maybe the thing to do is published the signed documents and let the public decide. However:

a: the people here will think Rahal and Fernandez are the spawn of Satan,

b: the folks at Crack For Him will think: goooolllleee, they really screwed over them CART guz, har, har, har, har, har

c: no one else will care.

The one thing I've learned in all this is that if you are guided by any sort of higher principles, most people in the sport today think you are a sap.

[Sean O'Gorman]

But posting it on a forum to tip off TG and his minons??? That just gives them time to prepare if it does happen. :confused:

:rolleyes:

I can't believe you people sometimes. Open wheel racing does not revolve around Internet forums!

[Dr. Corkski]

:rolleyes:

I can't believe you people sometimes. Open wheel racing does not revolve around Internet forums!I always thought it revolved around internet petitions.

[cart7]

Actually it's internet polls that the racing world revolves around. :gomer:



Speaking of the rumour, perhaps KK can have a couple of Indianapolis's finest come out and serve papers on Rahole, FAF & even Buddy Rice as he's about to roll away for the first lap. :laugh:

[DjDrOmusic]

Gee sorry I showed a little concern there Sean.

[Railbird]

Excuse me if I think this has the same credibility as the Stewart/Foyt fiasco.

"Let's pissoff a major manufacture and their sponsors one more time while putting ourselves in the news in a negative manner."

Yeah, that's the ticket!

[Chief]

I agree 'bird, let a sleeping dog lay. We got bigger fish to fry (although nothing surprizes me anymore in this feud). Maybe use it for leverage for something..... ;)

[skaven]

Actually it's internet polls that the racing world revolves around. :gomer:

Thanks for setting the record straight. :rofl:

[Wally]

First of all the bastages deserve what ever shat comes their way. :shakehead

But is not worth the time,trouble, money or BS. Get on with it already. I am quite sure KK is much bigger than this.

[Ankf00]

The world, and Champ Car, does not revolve around the irl 500...

[Chaos]

you just don't know what indy means :p

[sundaydriver2]

I hope OWRS nails those bastards to the wall.

I would laugh my ass off if they could stop them from competing in the 497.

:D

[sundaydriver2]

Originally Posted By Spicoli:

"Evidently both guys had signed papers PRIOR to the Long Beach preview saying they would participate in CCWS with a certain "assistance" package provided by CCWS. But at the same time they had signed deals with Homoco & EARL to run the EARL Series/League with those particular cars/drivers. So, as explained to me, they then went to KK at LB Preview and basically tried to extort even more money from OWRS, and he finally said "See Ya". Then Bobby got caught in his lie about "Sponsors want this and that" B.S.

Anyway - I remember hearing talk of some former team member leaving one of those teams anfd spilling the beans to OWRS about both of those guys having signed with EARL before LB Preview - maybe this all come together now?"


If the traitors signed signed with the Earl first, would that make their agreement with OWRS null and void? Or, would it go to misrepresentation and is that illegal?

If OWRS wants to slap an injuction on the traitors, I think they would have a hard time making it stick. It would be nice though.

[Turn7]

I don't think that another court battle played out in the open would be good for Champ Car. Going after two team owners is not worth it. Now it they could wrap the Idiot Grandson up in the thing, that would be almost worth the effort just for the revenge factor.

[Warlock!]

God... I wish I could bring myself to give a f***, but I just can't.

Gettin' psyched for Milwaukee, tho!!!

:cool:

Warlock!

[Opposite Lock]

If I remember (and understood) correctly, one of the things that influenced the direction of Judge Otto's decision was the perception that the IRL was trying to put Champ Car out of business, whereas Champ Car was just trying to survive in its own right, nothing vindictive. And shortly after that, the statement was made that Champ Car was just going to continue to focus on building our series.

It's very tempting to seize the leverage offered (if the rumor is true) in disrupting Memorial Day, and if this opportunity was a guaranteed move to end the IRL within the next thirty days or so, I would probably be in favor of it. But the IRL probably won't die that quickly, and the potential for negative perception could hurt us in the long run in sponsor-land and manufacturer-land, in the press, and in the courtrooms.

We're doing pretty well on our own right now, all things considered. Didn't seem like the fans in Monterrey missed AF at all, if they even thought about him. And as long as Forsythe is on our side, the IRL will find it nearly impossible to get into Mexico. Biggest advantage of all is that we still have the fans, not the IRL. The IRL is doing a pretty good job of falling on its collective face all by itself, without any interference from Champ Car.

I say for now, let's resist the temptation to kick the IRL in the groin this weekend, and take the moral high-road, (or whatever that road would be called if it existed in motorsport).

[KobySon]

I've been thinking about this and it strikes me that turn about is fair play. ChampCar was counting on these teams to make the 18 car count for Long Beach and the season! The bribery and defections were an openly hostile act. If legal action can be taken, then it should be pursued.

toney george is a punk brat (I could say a lot worse). He doesn't understand cooperation and never will. He will never relent in trying to kill off champcar. You guys have seen example after example of this behaviour and still don't get it??? Look at the freakin' Portland thread for chrissakes! There's your example du jour. Time and time again, the leadership of Champ Car has tried to play nice and we continue to get kicked in the nuts!

If this report is true, then I say good! It's about time someone at the helm of this series wakes up and realizes that this is a freakin war! Playing nice with Toney George does not work. Give him a taste of his own freakin medicine!!! :flame:

[racer2c]

Does this mean no one off's by FAF in Mexico??!!?? Waaaaaa!!!!!!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Ferdman]

I have mixed feelings on this one. Turn about is fair play, but do we have to stoop, drop, dig a hole down to their level? If KK et al did this, it would appear vindictive and make OWRS look bad. At the same time, I'd like to see KK put his boot up Rahole and FAF's *sses sans lubricant.

As much has I despise these traitors, I'd prefer that KK use this leverage to get them back into the Champ Car fold. Of course they'll have to do their penance, but that would mean two to four more cars and drivers for us and that many less for the dark side.

[pineapple]

I've been thinking about this and it strikes me that turn about is fair play. ChampCar was counting on these teams to make the 18 car count for Long Beach and the season! The bribery and defections were an openly hostile act. If legal action can be taken, then it should be pursued.

Same line of thought for me, and I might add that TG is now counting on these same traitor teams to make 33 for Indy and at least 18 for the irl season. It also sounds as though IMS made injudicious use of the information it garnered during the bankruptcy proceedings. Wasn't there a non-disclosure agreement that prevented potential buyers from using information to undermine the existing corporation or for advantageous gain?

My personal wish is that this is true and that OWRS succeeds simply to let TG and henchmen know how it feels to have their legs cut out from under them. Besides, what would it matter to him anyway; after all 33 is just a number. :p

[KobySon]

Besides, what would it matter to him anyway; after all 33 is just a number. :p

:laugh:

[JLMannin]

But posting it on a forum to tip off TG and his minons??? That just gives them time to prepare if it does happen. :confused:

Word was out on the forums and elsewhere that the bankruptcy hearing was not going to be a garage sale type liquidation where waving the most cash prevails because it was chapter 11, not chapter 7, and that the "top bidder" would be the group that would enable the business to continue in its current form, giving a higher level of assurance that creditors would eventually get paid.

But TG is beyond arrogant, he is incapable of being wrong.

[Andrew Longman]

Probably pure fantasy, but it would be great if OWRS had the legal leverage to have Rahal and Adrian in a position where OWRS could prevent them from racing in the I500, but instead use that leverage to say privately "We'll be gracious and let you have your race, but then you need to drop the rest of the IRL season and rejoin Champcar (of course with all the appropriate public comments that the IRL season didn't actually turn out to be as promising as it first looked).

For the rest of the season, that would make TGs hunt for 33 cars look trivial, be sweet justice after Champcar struggled for 18 in LB, but much more importantly take the fight out of the courtroom and all the negativity it creates.

Open wheel racing needs to get focused only on fighting for fans, not teams, not court cases, not manufacturers, and not tracks. Only that will bring value to sponsors, track owners, and teams.

And THAT fight for fans seems to be the one thing Champcar is winning.

[KLang]

I couldn't care less if Rahal or Fernandez were to return. I'd be more interested if this were to pan out as a way to keep FTG away from the venues that Champ Car wants to run at. As far as interferring with the 500, what's the point? TG seems to be destroying it just fine without any help from Champ Car.


Edit:

How long before AR1 picks up on this? ;)
tick, tock. tick, tock.....

[racer2c]

I got nailed by the unofficial Fernandez Fan Club by giving my opinion that Adrian wasn't welcome to do one off's by this Champ Car fan. That's not the classy way they said. That's not the high road that Champ Car should take they proclaimed. Imagine the press coming into the 500 this weekend if Champ Car successfully prohibits FAF and FBR from entering the 500 through the courts. Now that wouldn't be good for Champ Car.

[scanman]

I admit, I am a militant....this is war...they are trying to put ChampCars
out of buisiness...if you think it will stop you better get a very large
umbrella...wait till they try to go road racin, that crap motor won't do it.
BUTT, they have alott of 2.65L turbo motors sittin around just waitin....
you think the the twirl is cart lite, just wait....
They have a head start in the bullcrap department and as far as I'm concerned, PHAUK EM :thumdown:
The cars are already designed, they want to copy ChampCars, no problem...
Then they will have the sound and the cars, BUT NO stars and not me...

I'm sorry if this doesn't fit the fence sitters agenda, but tuff noogies...

[sundaydriver2]

I'm sure Boy George is already planning to use Fonda and Yoda's turbo engines once Haas comes over and takes his Lola distributorship with him.

The POS will do anything to marginalize OWRS.

It is war.

[KobySon]

I'm sure Boy George is already planning to use Fonda and Yoda's turbo engines once Haas comes over and takes his Lola distributorship with him.

The POS will do anything to marginalize OWRS.

It is war.

He will do anything, including throwing out chebby, just as long as it kills off ChampCar. :shakehead

[scanman]

They won't have to throw out cheby...they will use the old ilmore's

Full circle jerk.... :D

[BNica]

Let it fly, maybe they throw the injunction out, but you know what? there are a couple of issues that could be litigated that would survive. And that way, we'll get to the bottom of the whole mess through discovery.

And it would be against the IRL and/or Honda as well. They are the ones interfering with the contracts between OWRS and the teams.

[Railbird]

A young friend of the family is shipping off to Afghanistan shortly, got called up from his college financing NG gig.

that is war

Back on topic:

Forcing full disclosure would be fun but somewhat reduntant. AF and Rahall both showed up with strong multi car teams while leaving sponsors behind.

Honda bucks, go kick your civic if that makes you feel better.

[FTG]

There are many kinds of war. They tend to be started by idiots who have no idea how to end them.

[cart7]

[QUOTE=Railbird]A young friend of the family is shipping off to Afghanistan shortly, got called up from his college financing NG gig.

that is war

....QUOTE]
sorry to hear bird. Our friends only son just got back from a year in Iraq, unscathed thankfully.

[Railbird]

thanks

he's a good kid but he signed up for infantry training because that's what looked like the shortest training deal back when he was just interested in getting some college funding.

MENSA member heading off to hump a rifle in some third world s****hole.

[gerhard911]

There are many kinds of war. They tend to be started by idiots who have no idea how to end them.

Truer words were never spoken...

[stroker]

As are others, I'm of a mixed opinion on this... Just what we need--another excuse to put some lawyers to work. :rolleyes:

However, if there is demonstrable legal wrongdoing, I'd be willing to settle out of court. All it would cost FAF and FBR are all their Lolas and spare parts.

:rofl:

[Opposite Lock]

As are others, I'm of a mixed opinion on this... Just what we need--another excuse to put some lawyers to work. :rolleyes:

However, if there is demonstrable legal wrongdoing, I'd be willing to settle out of court. All it would cost FAF and FBR are all their Lolas and spare parts.

:rofl:

Interesting idea - just shake them down for their Lola tubs and parts, for now. I admit I have no idea what it means to buy a Lola or two. Would it just be a couple of high mileage tubs, which could have been, well, sabotaged? Or would it be more of a supply contract with Lola that you would get?

[SteveH]

I have mixed feelings on this one. On one hand it's up their hole with a ten foot pole. But at some point this pizzing match between both series needs to end. What might be best is OWRS makes BR and AF fully aware that they are in breech of contract, along with Honda and the IRL. Call them on it and see what they offer in exchange. If OWRS gets stonewalled, take it public but do not force a legal remedy that put the starting field at Indy in jeopardy. That would look vindictive, it would be much better to make them look like the bad guys.

[Madmaxfan2]

Internet forums may not run open wheel racing, but some smart leadership types value internet forums as a voice of the fan. PG, KK, JF, CP come to mind. So does Paul Newman.

[Spicoli]

The truth is - TG is a ****-faced moron who should be sent to Afgan or Iraq or KorEEa.

I hate that guy.

[TedN]

Internet forums may not run open wheel racing, but some smart leadership types value internet forums as a voice of the fan. PG, KK, JF, CP come to mind. So does Paul Newman.

My unscientific guestimate is that the people who read and/or post on Internet forums represent less than 1% of racing fans. How would this be a "voice of the fan"?

Ted

[RaceGrrl]

Well, Ted, it's the voice of a core group of fans. I don't know that the Three read these forums personally, but I have no doubt that others working in and for ChampCar do.

[JLMannin]

Internet forums may not run open wheel racing, but some smart leadership types value internet forums as a voice of the fan. PG, KK, JF, CP come to mind. So does Paul Newman.

I don't know about the others on you list, but I do know that Paul Tracy does: "I'm not going to drive one of those Crapwagons!"

[MAXAR RE]

If KK/OWRS can force an injunction on FAF or FBR to keep them out of the 500 or the rest of the IRL season, then I say DO IT! :thumbup:

[Madmaxfan2]

I believe that Chris Pook uttered the crapwagon term a few times. Kellner coined the phrase. Internet forums have some effect. Why would Rathole say there are some poisonous attitudes out there with he want with the IRL?

[scanman]

My unscientific guestimate is that the people who read and/or post on Internet forums represent less than 1% of racing fans. How would this be a "voice of the fan"?

Ted
Please tell me where you got this info from....

oh yah, I see..."My unscientific guestimate"...
did you forgety a smilie ?? :gomer:
Hey, I got one of those.."My unscientific guestimate"
My unscientific guestimate is more like 50%....

Hey, it's just a number, what the hell is a # amongst friends.. :D

[oddlycalm]

"Let's pissoff a major manufacture and their sponsors one more time while putting ourselves in the news in a negative manner."

Yeah, that's the ticket!

It's easy for us to say they should move on and focus on the future, which they probably should, but the money this BS cost didn't come from our pockets. You don't get any respect at the table with big business by being a patsy or turning the other cheek when someone has taken a shot at you. You simply look weak, set a precedent, and help destroy confidence in your ability to do what it takes to run a successful business. Screwing with the 500, and the responsible team owners, in a very public and damaging manner sends a clear message to everyone involved that CWS is the wrong outfit to dick around with. This one act alone might serve notice and prevent a whole range of future problems.

The IRL would have been stilborn, and TG's hands effectively tied, if CART had mounted a full scale assault using every means available back in 1996. The only reason he feels free to do what he does is that people were weak and let him. The way to put a stop to it permanently is to very publically kick him in the groin a couple times hard. The court decision earlier this year was a good start to build on.


The one thing I've learned in all this is that if you are guided by any sort of higher principles, most people in the sport today think you are a sap.

Exactly right, but it's starting to have a boomerang effect as well. Once the crowd can't relate to thugs on the field or organizations that are corrupt, the gravy train screeches to a halt. Paul Allen's Arena Corp recently declared bankruptcy after fans stayed away in droves following several seasons when his NBA team was mostly comprised of thugs and street creeps. The national mood has changed in a fundamental way due to the current geo-political situation, and sports franchises that aren't paying attention may find themselves up for sale.

oc