View Full Version : Observation about F1
As you probably know, an influx of manufacturer money has made its way into F1 in the past few years: BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda.
This reminds me of ChampCar 2000 to 2002. And as you know, once the manufacturers left, ChampCar had to spend a lot of money to operate.
So...whose to say F1 may not suffer the same fate? It's virtually impossible to start a new team in F1 - the money needed is virtually impossible to raise for a privateer and perhaps even smaller manufacturers. Arden F3000 was considering the move upward, but he saw his fate if he did.
I wonder if BE has given this some serious thought.
Then support independant teams....
(Clown = huge Minardi fan)
Dirty Sanchez
05-28-04, 12:19 PM
I think BE/MM have given tremendous thought and attention to it. The difference between F1 today and ChampCar of 2000-2002 is that ChampCar management was bush league in comparison and easy to exploit.
I also think the current owners in F1 have recognized the cluster**** that is American OW (post-split) and have the ability to learn from others mistakes. This plays heavily on the minds of the manufacturers as well, imo. Sure... they have been making certain noises about this and that (GPWC) but this was only to get a bigger piece of the pie, imo... which they have accomplished.
Is there room for further improvement and is there reason to be concerned? Hell yes. But they are doing a helluva job.
The real fear for me is one of the big manufacturers pulling out because some CEO gets tired of getting their asses handed to them year after year. Of the seven major manufacturers (Ferrari/FIAT, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Honda, Toyota, Ford/Jaguar) I believe Ford might be at the greatest risk... although I don't think they would abandon their customer engine operations completely.
RacinM3
05-28-04, 12:43 PM
I'd only worry if they were completely stupid and moronic enough to allow a situation where someone else who runs the 'crown jewel' of their series to up and start another series, effectively banning the old teams from running that event, thereby creating a split that confused and discouraged fans from following the series, thereby weakening F1 so much that nobody even cared anymore.
But that would never happen. No one could be that stupid.
I worry about the future of McLaren.
Mercedes now have a large shareholding in McLaren which leaves them solely reliant on the german giant when it comes to propulsion for their machines.
Also with the manufacturers and Bernie slugging it out over the future of F1 after the expiration of the concorde agreement surely McLaren will only be able to do what is dictated by the german giant.
I could go on about Daimler-Benz's kiss of death in the global auto industry but that would just be singing to the choir, surely...
F1 and NASCAR can say FU to a manufacturer. (Their only concern is them all leaving.)
Champ Car and the IRL can't.
F1 and NASCAR can say FU to a manufacturer. (Their only concern is them all leaving.)
Champ Car and the IRL can't.
Manufacturers come and go..... Look at Honda in F1. The rumour of VW wanting to get in still hasn't gone away,along with a couple of others. There will always be some euro manufacturer wanting to get in the limelight.
Hell, what would happen if Maserati decided to jump back in? (Another rumour)
Jervis Tetch 1
05-28-04, 10:15 PM
I wouldn't worry about McLaren's future.
They said the same thing when the MP was powerd by Porsche and Honda.
I wouldn't worry about McLaren's future.
They said the same thing when the MP was powerd by Porsche and Honda.
And what did McLaren do with Honda power? Or is that your point? :confused:
As you probably know, an influx of manufacturer money has made its way into F1 in the past few years: BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda.
This reminds me of ChampCar 2000 to 2002. And as you know, once the manufacturers left, ChampCar had to spend a lot of money to operate.
So...whose to say F1 may not suffer the same fate? It's virtually impossible to start a new team in F1 - the money needed is virtually impossible to raise for a privateer and perhaps even smaller manufacturers. Arden F3000 was considering the move upward, but he saw his fate if he did.
I wonder if BE has given this some serious thought.
Although I miss the days of teams like Simtek. I don't see any similarities beyond major manufacturer involvement and even that is at a different level. F1 is a much more appealing series. Huge global television audience. Much better management, one huge star, all in all a better product.
I wouldn't worry about McLaren's future.
They said the same thing when the MP was powerd by Porsche and Honda.
You're forgetting the fantastic McLaren-Peugeotgrenades. :)
Railbird
05-29-04, 08:03 AM
Manufacturers come and go.....
Yep, always have, always will.
Save for Ferrari the carmaker have been a revolving source of finance for the World Championship. That doesn't make for the most stable situation but as long as it's the most visible form of motorsports on the planet F1 has little to worry about. imo
I dont dispute the fact that manufacturers come and go, but has there been any other time in F1 history where manufacturers were this prominent in terms of involvement and ownership?
Railbird
05-29-04, 12:42 PM
not that I can think of Chaos.
Dirty Sanchez
05-29-04, 01:03 PM
not that I can think of Chaos.Yep. There are 4 full blown factory teams, Renault, Toyota, Ferrari and Jaguar. BMW and Mercedes own a significant % of Williams and McLaren... I think Honda probably owns a slice of BAR, but not sure on that.
And then you have Jordan, Sauber and Minardi.
Bernard's Answer: " I'll keep all the manufacturers' money to help the teams with cost containment."
Dirty Sanchez
06-01-04, 10:00 AM
The real fear for me is one of the big manufacturers pulling out because some CEO gets tired of getting their asses handed to them year after year. Of the seven major manufacturers (Ferrari/FIAT, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Honda, Toyota, Ford/Jaguar) I believe Ford might be at the greatest risk... although I don't think they would abandon their customer engine operations completely.Sheeeeez I didn't think it would be so soon! :shakehead
F1's Leaping Cat on ninth life... ?
Tue 01 Jun, 2:14 PM
Speculation did the rounds at the Nurburgring that Formula One team Jaguar was losing title-sponsor HSBC and the support of owners Ford ahead of season '05 ... not to mention star-driver Mark Webber !
This season brings an end to the Blue Oval's latest five-year Formula One plan. ''We've survived the hard years when Ford was suffering trading difficulties and they know they have to get behind Jaguar,'' Tony Purnell told the Telegraph.
Jaguar's boss admitted that the 'Cat must now 'do a good job' with limited resources, and is holding-out for Max Mosley's cost-cutting grand prix vision. Purnell said the R5 is 'weak' on reliability.
He concluded : ''Ford's view is that racing is at the core of the company. We want to be in Formula One - just not at any price.''
I suspect Ford will probably stick around in a customer engine capacity.
Jackie Stewart looks more and more brilliant each day that goes by.
jonovision_man
06-01-04, 12:06 PM
I suspect Ford will probably stick around in a customer engine capacity.
Jackie Stewart looks more and more brilliant each day that goes by.
I was thinking the same thing the other day. :) Stewart was doing a decent job.
If Rahal had successfully snagged Newey... who knows?
Manufacturers may come and go, but F1 has a lot of options before they'd ever get into serious trouble. 3-car teams, customer chassis, mandatory engine supply requirements (like the tire manufacturers - have to supply 50% of the grid)... there are a lot of paths they can take should things go sour with a few of the manufacturers.
BTW - with Fiat's current troubles, what about - gasp - Ferrari? I can't believe it's even being talked about... but who knows?
jono
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