View Full Version : Penske: Time To Repair The Rift
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/30/sports/othersports/30PENS.html
BACKTALK
The Brickyard, My Backyard: It's Time to Repair the Rift in Our Sport
By ROGER PENSKE
Published: May 30, 2004
New York Times
The Indianapolis 500, in my mind, is still the greatest auto race in the world. I went to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the first time with my dad in 1951. We had lousy seats. But something in my DNA told me I wanted to be either a car driver or an owner. So I kept coming back. After you get past 30 years, you know you're hooked.
This will be my 49th Indy 500 as either a spectator or as a car owner. Penske Racing has two drivers in today's race, Hélio Castroneves and Sam Hornish Jr. I've missed only the five years after the split in 1996 between the Indy Racing League and Championship Auto Racing Teams, the two major associations in the sport.
Including Gil de Ferran's victory last May, our drivers have won this race 13 times. And yet I'm excited about winning for the 14th time. I like the pressure. You can't go back within the race and do it again. If you make a mistake, you have to wait 12 months.
I like the challenge, too. The buildup is like the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. If it were easy, I guess I'd have 100 cars there, to give me a better chance. And we've been at Indy for so long that we worry about more things than most of the other teams do, because we've had a lot of experiences. There are so many things that can happen.
I was a road racer until I retired in 1965 to open a Chevrolet dealership in West Philadelphia. I've owned an Indy-car team since 1968 and now have a team on the Nextel Cup Series in Nascar, Penske Racing South, with Rusty Wallace, Ryan Newman and Brendan Gaughan as drivers. But the acclaim for winning the Indy 500 is enormous.
If you ask any driver from any racing series — a Formula One driver, or an Indy-car driver or, yes, even a Nascar driver — which race he or she would most like to win, I'd bet he or she would say the Indy 500. Once you win this race, it puts you in a special class. But it is like winning the World Series without the National League.
The I.R.L. and CART are still split. My goal, over the next couple of months, is to come up with a way to repair the split that led me away from Indianapolis for five years. I'd like to see one group, not two, racing Indy cars again. It would benefit not only Tony George, the president of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
You ride in the pace car with the winner after the race, and you know you've been in a special event. There has been a lot of evolution in this sport, but it's still the same racetrack, and the race still has the same prestige. But we don't see the big infield crowds at Indianapolis that we've seen over the years.
The trajectory of Indy-car racing is not down. It's not flat. The quality of the race teams has improved. There's support for the series within the automotive industry. The sponsorships are strong. In the future, we will need to find one sponsor who will be able to do for Indy-car racing what Nextel can do for stock car racing.
I think Tony George will be able to land a first-class sponsor for the I.R.L. Hopefully, that's on the horizon. If we have such a corporate sponsor for one series, with 35, 36, 37 cars available to compete regularly, I think it would lead to more competitive races and a better series over all than the two separate series we have now.
In each of the last two years, there have been reports that there might not be enough cars to fill the traditional 33-car starting grid. That's economics. The old days of $15,000 cars and having only two sets of wheels are long gone. You can't win this race with merely any car, just as you can't win the Kentucky Derby with merely any horse.
I do think you're going to see more teams migrating from CART over to the I.R.L. I think Buddy Rice winning the pole position this year for the car owner Bobby Rahal, who was a critic of Tony George before the split, was a positive step. It's still going to take some time. You can't have conflict without some fallout.
As strong as stock car racing has become, you couldn't have two major series competing against each other. Besides, Nascar didn't get where it is in four or five years. It took a long time. Some of the people who left after the I.R.L.-CART split are only migrating back now, like Rahal and Michael Andretti, who is now a car owner.
That's encouraging. But I'd like to see us take the next step. I think one series would benefit not only the sport, but also the businesses that surround the sport. I've used Indianapolis as a common thread in all my businesses. When I first went there as a car owner in 1969, I could see that the race could give us a brand identity.
I'd like to see all of the top Indy-car drivers here. To think that more than 400,000 people will be at the race, I don't know of a sporting event that can compare. This place fosters teamwork. The fellow who takes the car in the truck is as important as the driver of the car. If the car doesn't get here, the driver doesn't race.
I remember what happened in 1995, when we had two former Indy 500 champions, Emerson Fittipaldi and Al Unser Jr., fail to qualify for the race. We didn't go back until 2001, and Castroneves won two straight years. De Ferran won last year. So we have not lost an Indy 500 that we've actually competed in since 1992.
Going to the Indy 500 is like going to the Kentucky Derby. But I didn't know what I had been missing until I came back. Now is the time for everyone to come back.
As told to Dave Caldwell. Roger Penske has won the Indianapolis 500 13 times as a car owner.
Note to Roger
We dont call them Crapwagons out of spite
Ziggy
Mike Kellner
05-31-04, 07:30 PM
FU Roger.
You joined Formula Neck Snap. Enjoy the ride.
mk
Visit Indy, it's a killer track.
If you ask any driver from any racing series — a Formula One driver, or an Indy-car driver or, yes, even a Nascar driver — which race he or she would most like to win, I'd bet he or she would say the Indy 500.
whatever
jcollins28
05-31-04, 07:55 PM
I do think you're going to see more teams migrating from CART over to the I.R.L. I think Buddy Rice winning the pole position this year for the car owner Bobby Rahal, who was a critic of Tony George before the split, was a positive step. It's still going to take some time. You can't have conflict without some fallout.
I do not think so Roger. That line may work with the kool aid drinking gomers. However the teams that are in CHAMPCAR now are teams that put there money were their heart is Roger. Something that you,Benedict Frenandez,Rahole,GanASSi and The Lesser Andretti sold off a long time ago. Have fun "racing" in the IRL and be sure to give Whindretti HondaGreenBacks Racing plenty of tips on how to setup a tin top because once the EARL folds the only place you will be welcomed is with Joe Dirt at good ole Talledega.
Even if he does get most of the teams, doesn't mean the fans will follow.
Jag_Warrior
05-31-04, 08:01 PM
What I said on MotorsportForum - and what I feel:
Good grief! Jim Hardymon told you and Tony George that years ago, Roger! Odd that it's taken you about seven years to believe him. Negotiate in good faith and maybe something will come of it. But if your "goal" is to smoke someone out and make them surrender, I believe Forsythe's ego is as large as anyone's... and he owns his own cash cow. Tell Tony to keep quiet and YOU go speak to Forsythe.
And if they could do "run what ya brung" races in the early 90's, there's no REAL reason why (with equivalency), Champ cars and Indy cars couldn't compete against each other now. But, but, but... But nothing! You don't know for sure what would happen and neither does anyone else! George doesn't know - h#ll, he just recently got Indy cars to stop flying like birds! Try it. Do something to make a splash! Make it a grudge race. Give the fans of both series a reason to come out or turn on their sets!
What was once CART now controls the IRL. Done the right way, I'd like to give it a chance. Done the wrong way (trying to kill CCWS), I would wish for its death and failure. CCWS will die without the Amigos' wallets. The IRL will die without Toyota and Honda. But even combined, I don't know that they can reclaim what's been lost. So many people have moved on and just said f#&% it!.
Depending on what he tries to do, we'll soon see just who calls the shots in the IRL (now).
gerhard911
05-31-04, 08:03 PM
And his only remote reference to fans is to perpetuate the lie of 400,000 gomers at Endy. Pimpski doesn't get it (or won't admit it). :thumdown:
Methanolandbrats
05-31-04, 08:12 PM
Greatest Race in the World....blah...blah....Indy....blah...blah...Indy ....blah...blah...Tony George...blah...blahh.............FU Penske you Tony slurping, Indycentric, old-timer.
Enjoy your sh&t sandwhich, Roger. You made it for yourself and deserve a double decker.
Jag Warrior, that was a great post!
bravo
Ziggy
Like Ziggy said Jag. Great stuff! :thumbup:
fourrunner
05-31-04, 08:25 PM
Roger still doesn't get it -- He says get together again but what he means is Concession by Champ Car to Tony The Dolt....
Roger why don't you just come back to Champ Car Bring Ganassi And Andretti with you ,,leave Tony George in Charge of the Speedway and go there once a year.
Under the Champ Car Banner
What that's not the "merger" you meant .... Didn't think so
Bury Tony George under the Start Finish line (Preferably Alive) & Most Champ Car Fans would "think about it"
Ed_Severson
05-31-04, 08:37 PM
He's absolutely right. It is time to repair the rift.
If Penske had any balls, he'd be the first to make the move back to the series which owns all of the history and tradition he so conveniently forgot to write about.
GOFAST1
05-31-04, 09:14 PM
Same old garbage.
If it wasn`t for him, the split might be over by now.
That`s rich. :saywhat:
Shut up, Penske. If you wanted one series you, Tony and the other traitors could have put your money where your mouths were back in January and made it happen. Instead you and the other traitors showed the same leadership and commitment that you did when you were running CART. Screw the sport, where's my check?
It is hard for me to find the words that can describe the irony in what Pimpske is saying.
But I will say this to him and all of the rest of the Fifth Column:
You can take our drivers
You can take our teams
You can take our manufacturers
You can take our races
But you will NEVER get our fans. And without the fans you have no reason to have a series.
PopOffValve
05-31-04, 10:51 PM
The Indianapolis 500, in my mind, is still the greatest auto race in..
oh, never mind...
Jervis Tetch 1
05-31-04, 10:53 PM
"If you ask any driver in F1, NASCAR,..."
Funny, I don't think he asked Mario. Mario's ultimate goal was to ALWAYS win the World Championship. Not Indianapolis.
Amanda B.'s Mom
05-31-04, 11:05 PM
Winning one race does not make a Champion. Having one big race does not make a series. Having 1000 fans does not make a spectator sport.
Yiou get the idea..........
What I think is interesting is Roger "things will take care of themselves" Penske is now talking about taking action to end the split.
If he's willing to come up with a true merger proposal, I'd listen. If he wants to get Tony a pneumatic hammer, he can kiss off.
Banishing TG back to Terre Haute would be a good start. Until he no longer has control over a racing series - any series - there can be no reconciliation.
Just how out of touch is Penske? He only sees this because it would be good for his sponsors and his back account. Not necessarily good for racing.
All of these clowns are surrounded by *** kissers and yes men, and that includes Penske. Roger, come to RA, just shut up and listen. Hell, I'll even buy you a few beers. You've been isolated too long. Too many hours in board rooms and not enough in the grandstands. The IRL has ran off the bulk of the fans - just look at Indy's attendance. Don't look at ChampCar's demise as the cure. That won't work. The problem is in Indy.
Just like Penske was behind spacergate, there is more than meets the eye with this article. Roger plays many roles in North America, Racing is a side line and an extension of his business model.
Look for this chacksooker to pull some sheeit here in the very near future
Im worried about the money to run OWRS. I know the thoughts of many on this board, "Ziggy, you dont know what your talking about, GF has bales of money" etc. GF did not get bales of money by making bad decisions about how and where to spend it. At some point in time some hard decisions are going to have to be made. That crowd at Mexico last week did not look that strong to me, and I would imagine that a night race at Milwaukee (which Im going to) is not going to be that well attended either. (dont get me started, a night race at this time of year is a sure fire turkey, too cold)
Still tilting @ windmills, Don....errr, I mean Rog? <sigh>
-Kevin
Just how out of touch is Penske? He only sees this because it would be good for his sponsors and his back account. Not necessarily good for racing.
Freudian slip there, huh Steve? :rofl:
I agree fully tho'. :thumbup:
Mike Kellner
06-01-04, 12:22 AM
OK, I'm going to make a more reasoned relpy than the one finger one I offered up earlier, not to say that the finger didn't convey my heartfelt emotional response.
I read Roger's words again, and what he doesn't say, is as important as what he does. It's all about Indy, he speaks of nothing else, as if there was no other race, and no other issues. He talks as if the split just happened, perhaps a transporter accident, and presto, chango, there were two open wheel series where there once was one. No mention of Tony, other than to say that Tony was sure to find a great series sponsor soon, just like NASCAR, and that would solve everything. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember the lack of a series sponsor being one of the issues that led to the split. What are the benefits he offersfor ending the split? An improved climate for the bussiness that surround the sport? Now there's a reason we can all get behind, poor ol' Roger an Chip aren't making enough money yet, so let's end the split and help their bottom lines.
Since Roger is seemingly clueless, I will let him buy four for the price of reading 300 or so words.
1) There is a split in open wheel because Tony George started his own series when the CART board of directors, where Roger Penske was the biggest player, refused to annoint him Czar of Open Wheel Racing, because they were thinking more clearly in those days, and they realized what a total nitwit he was, and that he was far more likely to ruin everything, than to make anything better.
There wil not be a successful reconciliation as long as Tony George is in charge of Indy, or anything else in the sport.
2) Any reconciliation that works is going to involve compromise. I have yet to hear one word out of IMS, that they are in any mood to compromise with anyone on anything.
3) The fans have voted with their feet, wallets, and remote controls. What Tony is peddling ain't selling. The IRL is a giant flopperoo. It is so bad, it can't even sell out Indy. The rest of the races only have anyone in the stands, because NASCAR customers are forced to buy IRL tickets in a package to get their NASCAR tickets. Any combined series that actually is marketable is going to have to be something other than CrapWagons on ovals.
4) CrapWagons are dangerous. This is obvious to everyone but the people who have the power to change them. They are also ungodly ugly, and the stupid NASCAR style pack racing they create is as contrived and boring as NASCAR. NASCAR already has rounded up all the fans for good ol' boy spec car pack racing. Back in the 90s, when the stands were full, there were different types of cars, doing a different type of racing. I know this sounds crazy to the brain trust that runs the sport, but since the new way is a market failure that is injuring people at an alarming rate, what about returning to what worked not all that long ago?
mk
Kiwifan
06-01-04, 06:29 AM
Well said Mike. :thumbup: Although I like your one fingered salute I have to admit I liked your last post better. For some of us who aren't so eloquent I think you summed up how a lot of us feel but don't have the right words to say.
As an optimist I'm ever hopeful that common sense will prevail but after Rahal and Fernandez jumped ship I'm starting to think that it's a commodity in short supply. :mad:
I used to admire the Captain once for his dedication and love of the sport but these days I just get so mad listening/reading what he has to say. He had it all once, a leader in the premier racing series (for me) in the World but he let greed take over. Ya blew it Rog, I see the old gravy train slowing down mate and then what will ya do? Retire?
Rusty.
scanman
06-01-04, 07:02 AM
But you will NEVER get our fans. And without the fans you have no reason to have a series.
This says it all for me... :thumbup:
Penske: Time To Repair The Rift
Don't you love his arogance.
Whats he expect us to do.... "Alright guys, time to nice. Roger says so" :rolleyes:
I think this has more to do with him getting shown the door when he has tried to secure a replacement for Marlboro. He has 2 more years before United Auto becomes his primary sponsor. The Indy 500 isn't a good enough draw to have folks begging Captn. Liverspots to put their company logo on his crapwagons. Reality is setting in that the sport is in a deep pile of **** man. Sponsors are not going to jump on a sinking ship no matter if you have won one or 13 Indy 500's.
Go to Florsheims and buy you a couple of pairs Rog, your going to be wearing out the leather.
4wheeldrifter
06-01-04, 07:53 AM
If you ask any driver from any racing series — a Formula One driver, or an Indy-car driver or, yes, even a Nascar driver — which race he or she would most like to win, I'd bet he or she would say the Indy 500.
Living in the past and forgetting the past all in the same article. You're clutch is slipping, Roger.
Roger: Bare aluminum, like a picture, speaks a thousand words. I don't remember bare aluminum in 1995. Or '94, or '93, or '92..... :shakehead
Insomniac
06-01-04, 08:09 AM
It would benefit not only Tony George, the president of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
Was there more to this sentence? Either that, or he forgot to take out the "not".
Madmaxfan2
06-01-04, 08:32 AM
Dear Roger,
You had your chance to make things right. It was called the US 500. Had you made the sacarfice for a 97and 98 US 500 during the Memoral Day weekends at your track, Tony would have been brought to his knees, and his negotiating position would have been zilch. I know you made a last minute deal with Tony in 96 to modify 28/5 to be 28/11, and the other CART owners said no way. Yes, you made have lost face, and you lost money on your July CART race due to market saturation. But, in war sacarfice is needed to win. But you thought you could negotiate your way out fo it. History should have taught you that idiots don't negotiate for the common good, they want thier way, or no way at all. But when the choice became personal, you caved in completely to your business interests and followed George. You turned your back on road racing, the genre that made you better than anybody else. Now even you realize that sport is in trouble. You followed your self interests instead of the common good, made a deal with someone you earlier judged to be not worthy. Now you must save face and negotiate with a egomaniac.
BTW, you also have some farily smart fans who have turned thier back on you too. I wish you luck, but even I understand the using failed tactics like negotiation will not work now. TG has everything to lose in comprismising because his recent statements seem indicate he is perfectely willing to accept a diminished Indy 500 as the price for him to be leader for life.
Roger, kiss my skinny butt! I'll quit supporting open wheel all together if you get your way.
edit: Doesn't he say this same crap every year?
fourrunner
06-01-04, 09:30 AM
edit: Doesn't he say this same crap every year?
Like Clockwork !
Every year he looks around at what he helped do to open wheel, plus the fact that the IRL is not working at all, and that each year it's getting worse...
Then he realizes that it might cost him money out of pocket for it to work, and he snaps out of it!
Until Next Year !!
Bottom Line .... Champ Car has no where to go but up....
IRL has done nothing each year but go down.... and they've got everything they wanted !
Hard Driver
06-01-04, 10:11 AM
Hey Roger,
Glad you enjoyed the 500. What are you going to do until next May? Oh that's right, you are going to race around on ovals in front of small crowds.
Personally I would rather be doing some real road/street racing in front of hundreds of thousands of people than racing crapwagons in front of almost empty stands.
Hey Rog, get FTG on WindTunnel and have him proclaim to open wheel fans worldwide that the EArL was a mistake. Have him tell the world that 25/8 was a foolish move that severed the sport and ruined the 500, and that he FTG wants to do what ever is necessary to heal the sport. Nothing short of this will do otherwise (of course dropping dead or banishment from the sport would be considered).
All of you traitorious greedy b@stards are responsible and the more you take the high road and ingore the past, and the fans, you are screwed. We'll see to it.
Paul Newman said in his WindTunnel interview that the fans are pissed. Why does it appear IMS/FTG and you FRP can't get that through your stupid heads?
Skater_36
06-01-04, 10:47 AM
Everyone is right that the IRL is a resounding failure and even the Indy 500 isn't bulletproof as the empty seats and free tickets will confirm. None the less, the Indy 500 does still have some value as an event and RP may be trying to grab it up before it is lost completely. Penske has been instrumental in bringing his CART buddies and engine manufacturers to the IRL, he's even got TG planning on road racing and now he floats an article about stepping in to make one series. I think RP is looking at running it all and giving TG a voting seat on the BOD (a voting seat that can be easily out voted) which is what TG was looking for in the first place. If RP can bring all of the parties together so that they can save face it may happen. RP knows he has to do it soon before TG runs everything in to the ground.
Just my theory, I may be wrong but crazier things have happened.
I wonder how much influence Penske really has? FTG wanted to be top banana and now he is. His recent statements indicate he doesn't seem to care about the fallout of the split. I'm sure he's still making money off the race.
Brickman
06-01-04, 11:14 AM
It's obvious Roger isn't talking to the fans, but to the auto racing sponsors and press. I suspect PR and nothing more.
My $.02... notice this line in Penske's interview:
If you make a mistake, you have to wait 12 months.
I was watching some of those "Legends of the Brickyard" 80's Indy races off-and-on throughout the weekend on ESPN, and noticed that whenever someone didn't qualify or dropped out of the race, the announcers usually said something like "Oh well, another year gone" or "They'll have to wait until next year." What about *next week* at Milwaukee? What about the points chase for the Championship?
The point is that there seems to be no acknowledgement of a separate National Championship series. Indy is the only race that exists. There seems to be relatively little interest in any kind of overall Championship which involves *other races*. Or if there is any interest in a Championship Series, it's mainly for the purpose of being of benefit to The 500.
sundaydriver2
06-01-04, 12:04 PM
What's going on behind closed doors between the heavy hitters? What's the inside scoop? That is the question. Is there some kind of scenario all ready on the board and both parties know it?
We all know that Lola tried to enter the IRL and was rebuffed. And if the rumors are true that Haas is most likely gone after this year with his Lola distributorship, where does that leave OWRS?
Ok, I may be wrong here but what if this is Rogers way of saying to OWRS, get over here now, because the Idiotgrandson is prepard to out spend you. And, since Boy George has copied everything that CART was, he will go the final step: road racing and Champ cars (Lola chassis and V8 Turbos)
Will it matter in the end?
Not to this fan. See DaveL's comments.
Madmaxfan2
06-01-04, 12:22 PM
What's going on behind closed doors between the heavy hitters? What's the inside scoop? That is the question. Is there some kind of scenario all ready on the board and both parties know it?
We all know that Lola tried to enter the IRL and was rebuffed. And if the rumors are true that Haas is most likely gone after this year with his Lola distributionship, where does that leave OWRS?
Ok, I may be wrong here but what if this is Rogers way of saying to OWRS, get over here now, because the Idiotgrandson is prepard to out spend you. And, since Boy George has copied everything that CART was, he will go the final step: road racing and Champ cars (Lola chassis and V8 Turbos)
Will it matter in the end?
Not to this fan. See DaveL's comments.
You might be right.We shall see.
Anytime Pimpske talks about doing something "for the good of the sport" I have to treat it like Terrell Owens talking about the value of being a team player.
This is the same person who hand picked who got to have his Illmore Chevy engines, while at the same time making sure that the Buicks would never get a single inch of extra boost-to give just one example.
Pimpske's only concern is how whatever happens can benefit him, and that's always been his concern. He'd set scuttling charges on the Queen Mary II if he knew he could sell seats on the lifeboats. The greater good never extends farther than how Pimpske can benefit, and let no one here forget that. And the same can be said for Rahole, Fatassi and the rest of the Fifth Column.
Insomniac
06-01-04, 01:32 PM
Roger, kiss my skinny butt! I'll quit supporting open wheel all together if you get your way.
edit: Doesn't he say this same crap every year?
This year he decided to take a different tone from his annual "I predict there will be one series in 12-18 months" line.
Napoleon
06-01-04, 01:40 PM
F Pimpski
Dead-on DaveL. The stink of failure is now approaching dangerous levels for the EArL. They are fighting for survival, the tact used to be from a point of strength....now it's from desperation. You made your bed Roger, lay in it. To us it was like a "punch in the nose". We're not forgetting it either....
Don't you love his arogance.
Whats he expect us to do.... "Alright guys, time to nice. Roger says so" :rolleyes:
Sounds a lot like Tony George predicting champcar fans would arrive in droves at IRL races once CART was dead.
oddlycalm
06-01-04, 02:20 PM
Look for this chacksooker to pull some sheeit here in the very near future
Im worried about the money to run OWRS. I know the thoughts of many on this board
It's already started right here in River City Zig. Penske is the one behind Bob Ames and Peter Jacobson's efforts to scuttle the Portland CWS race and replace it with an EARL event. TG doesn't know Ames & Jacobson, but Penske does, and he's been breathing in their ears. Count on seeing this played out at whatever other venues they are interested in.
I think this has more to do with him getting shown the door when he has tried to secure a replacement for Marlboro.
Bingo. He has finally figured out that his gravy train is being threatened and he's trying to fix it by proclamation. He just hasn't figured out that without the fans, none of it matters. He needs to listen to Richard Petty.
It's obvious Roger isn't talking to the fans, but to the auto racing sponsors and press.
Exactly right Brick. He still doesn't get that it's about the fans, not about who he knows.
The point is that there seems to be no acknowledgement of a separate National Championship series. Indy is the only race that exists.
Yup, not only is Roger among the most Indycentric guys still active, but his realization is also that the sponsers are losing interest. The 500 isn't what it once was, and the EARL "series" never was.
By simple definition, you can't develop a successful series without developing other successful events. Exactly how do you do that when the name is Indycar, and everyone's focus, from the the sponsors on down to the last lowliest mechanic, is on one big race? The folks in Long Beach, Toronto, Portland, RA and all of the other CWS venues should think about that when Roger's buddies come knocking.
The history of the IRL mirrors the history of the USAC Trail. The only purpose the other venues serve is as a minor supporting cast for the Indy 500 and all it cheesy traditions. It's a different world out there, and these idiots are stuck in the past.
oc
Andrew Longman
06-01-04, 04:01 PM
I'm not happy with Roger's comments either and I can't agree more with everyone's comments here, but I remember a time when for one day a year everyone was a race fan. As a kid even my Mom would wonder at Memorial Day BBQs in NJ who won the 500 and if anyone was hurt. It was just part of Memorial Day.
For the racer that was a once a year opportunity
That is long gone.
I'm not going to bother to read it.
Hey Roger, my name's Mark; I'm a fan. I have email; I accept apologies. That would be a small start toward the Repair of the Riff, which I might add, you, in no small part, have sustained by propping up the IRL.
Cheers.
The Indianapolis 500, in my mind, is still the greatest auto race in..
That's almost as funny as the NASCAR CEO on Kilborne last night claiming that at Sears Point "NASCAR puts on the best road course show in the country, i mean, the world even"
Racewriter
06-01-04, 08:22 PM
Anytime Pimpske talks about doing something "for the good of the sport" I have to treat it like Terrell Owens talking about the value of being a team player.
This is the same person who hand picked who got to have his Illmore Chevy engines, while at the same time making sure that the Buicks would never get a single inch of extra boost-to give just one example.
Pimpske's only concern is how whatever happens can benefit him, and that's always been his concern. He'd set scuttling charges on the Queen Mary II if he knew he could sell seats on the lifeboats. The greater good never extends farther than how Pimpske can benefit, and let no one here forget that. And the same can be said for Rahole, Fatassi and the rest of the Fifth Column.
Well said, Dave. Bunch of crack whores IMO...
fourrunner
06-01-04, 09:46 PM
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
OWRS = King Arthur
IRL / Penske = The Black Knight
Right now Penske (as the Black Knight ) is Hopping around Armless and on One Leg still trying to dictate the terms of the fight....
while Champ Car (as King Arthur) is looking at him in his pathetic condition saying "What are you going to do Bleed On Me" ? ;)
racer2c
06-01-04, 09:52 PM
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
OWRS = King Arthur
IRL / Penske = The Black Knight
Right now Penske (as the Black Knight ) is Hopping around Armless and on One Leg still trying to dictate the terms of the fight....
while Champ Car (as King Arthur) is looking at him saying "What are you going to do Bleed On Me" ? ;)
I was more of a Benny Hill guy. ;) :gomer:
Roger is the little old bald guy.
OWRS is Benny chasing the girls. No wait a sec, that's me. ah, forget about it.
4wheeldrifter
06-02-04, 08:29 AM
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
OWRS = King Arthur
IRL / Penske = The Black Knight
Right now Penske (as the Black Knight ) is Hopping around Armless and on One Leg still trying to dictate the terms of the fight....
while Champ Car (as King Arthur) is looking at him in his pathetic condition saying "What are you going to do Bleed On Me" ? ;)
Arthur: "But you've got no aaarms left!"
BK: "Yes I have. Looooook! Merely a flesh wound". :laugh:
Denial. Roger needs a good 12 step program.
Interesting gossip from Champweb.net ....
Silent talk had Mario Andretti and Roger Penske sitting down in the Penske Motorhome during the rain delay with both very disappointed in what the Indy 500 has become (lack of fan and media interest).
Some type of agreement between the two has Penske and Andretti sitting down for some serious discussions between them and coming up with a plan to unify the two series in the next few months. Penske will use his muscle on George, and Mario the respect he has around the Champcar series. Word is that they both agree that in order for the series to unify, George has to give up the helm and just own the series but appoint someone else to run the series, the schedule will have to be a compromise of oval/street and road races etc.
They plan on coming up with a potential leader, set of guidelines, schedule, engine, chassis etc . and present it to the two groups in private and then make it known public. Goal is to have a unified Indy 500 in 2005 (coming up with a set of rules so that both series can use their equipment) and be unified in 2006, but they hope that both sides realize that it really all should be done for 2005
racer2c
06-02-04, 10:34 AM
Interesting gossip from Champweb.net ....
Silent talk had Mario Andretti and Roger Penske sitting down in the Penske Motorhome during the rain delay with both very disappointed in what the Indy 500 has become (lack of fan and media interest).
Some type of agreement between the two has Penske and Andretti sitting down for some serious discussions between them and coming up with a plan to unify the two series in the next few months. Penske will use his muscle on George, and Mario the respect he has around the Champcar series. Word is that they both agree that in order for the series to unify, George has to give up the helm and just own the series but appoint someone else to run the series, the schedule will have to be a compromise of oval/street and road races etc.
They plan on coming up with a potential leader, set of guidelines, schedule, engine, chassis etc . and present it to the two groups in private and then make it known public. Goal is to have a unified Indy 500 in 2005 (coming up with a set of rules so that both series can use their equipment) and be unified in 2006, but they hope that both sides realize that it really all should be done for 2005
Or it could have been jovial conversation over a beer and a fish sandwich. Or it could have been Rog asking Mario if he could convince any of the CCWS teams to defect. Or it could have been that Mario had to use the bathroom and couldn't wait until he got to his own motor-home. Or it could have been...
Methanolandbrats
06-02-04, 10:47 AM
Mario was just trying to get out of the rain. Mario knows the 500 has been flushed. Penske is still in denial because he worships the bricks. Those two coming up with a plan during a rain delay is absurd. And the only way FTG will give up control is if he's dead. He's an egomaniac with an endless supply of cash and he has no motivation to compromise. He'll ride that sucker down to a live gate of 50k and a pay-per-view broadcast before he'll admit his incompetence. Indy is done, it's over, everyone should just forget about it and quit mentioning the goddamn thing. It's time to move forward and try to build something new. Will it work? Only time will tell.
If FTG is anything more then a track owner, I'll take my business elsewhere.
RacinM3
06-02-04, 11:34 AM
Or it could have been jovial conversation over a beer and a fish sandwich. Or it could have been Rog asking Mario if he could convince any of the CCWS teams to defect. Or it could have been that Mario had to use the bathroom and couldn't wait until he got to his own motor-home. Or it could have been...
Or maybe it could be that the 'meeting' never happened at all. Did anybody actually see Andretti (the good one) enter the Pimpski motorhome? Like on video (not some jackass who says he saw it)? If I don't get multiple confirmations that people saw it on the telecast or something, then to me it's just more internet bulls****.
Madmaxfan2
06-02-04, 12:25 PM
Or maybe it could be that the 'meeting' never happened at all. Did anybody actually see Andretti (the good one) enter the Pimpski motorhome? Like on video (not some jackass who says he saw it)? If I don't get multiple confirmations that people saw it on the telecast or something, then to me it's just more internet bulls****.
I agree. The actions have yet to match the gossip. We shall see.
Skater_36
06-02-04, 12:33 PM
It's not that far fetched. Anyone can see that the race is greatly diminished from what it once was. Both of these men are linked to the Indy 500 through history and would hate to see it go down the tubes but know that will happen if the current leadership continues.
One thing is certain, Tony George will have to step aside before anything can happen.
Brickman
06-02-04, 12:44 PM
Or maybe it could be that the 'meeting' never happened at all. Did anybody actually see Andretti (the good one) enter the Pimpski motorhome? Like on video (not some jackass who says he saw it)? If I don't get multiple confirmations that people saw it on the telecast or something, then to me it's just more internet bulls****.
Yep.
The only thing Penske could do is go to the manufacturers and attempt to get them to use some muscle on TG. If Ford, Toyota, Honda, and Chevy could make it happen, create crossover engine specs for Champ Car and Indy Cars. The probblem is that Tony thinks the next domino to create a successful series is road courses, the reality is that 2/3* of open wheel fans won't embrace anything with his signature on it. He is the only domino that could create unity.
*per attendance numbers.
Or it could have been jovial conversation over a beer and a fish sandwich. Or it could have been Rog asking Mario if he could convince any of the CCWS teams to defect. Or it could have been that Mario had to use the bathroom and couldn't wait until he got to his own motor-home. Or it could have been...
Exactly. I love it when people are seen going into a motorcoach and their conversation becomes public knowledge. Maybe they were watching Girls Gone Wild - Snoop Dog Style.
To date, merging the two series has been nothing short of an exercise in futility. Not sure why things would be any different now as long as TG is still alive.
sundaydriver2
06-02-04, 12:49 PM
I would recommend to the powers at be at Champcar to avoid a merger at all costs. The Idiotgrandson is doing a fine job of hammering the Gomer 450 down the ****ter.
In a few short years, nobody will have to worry about it because it will be a cab race.
Champcar needs to move on and forge their own destiny.
I would recommend to the powers at be at Champcar to avoid a merger at all costs. The Idiotgrandson is doing a fine job of hammering the Gomer 450 down the ****ter.
In a few short years, nobody will have to worry about it because it will be a cab race.
Champcar needs to move on and forge their own destiny.
Perfect.
Napoleon
06-02-04, 01:41 PM
To add fuel to the fire this quote appears in todays Cleveland Plain Dealer from Mario which was characterized as a comment “ . . on how the split between the IRL and CART affected attendance at the Indianapolis 500”:
“It goes back to the political situation. It did not need to happen, and I think the split of the two leagues caused some emotions among the fans that hurt both sides. That is the part I hate to see.”
racer2c
06-02-04, 02:28 PM
To add fuel to the fire this quote appears in todays Cleveland Plain Dealer from Mario which was characterized as a comment “ . . on how the split between the IRL and CART affected attendance at the Indianapolis 500”:
“It goes back to the political situation. It did not need to happen, and I think the split of the two leagues caused some emotions among the fans that hurt both sides. That is the part I hate to see.”
Eww Mario, careful there, don't start blaming us fans. You think attedance is poor now...
Madmaxfan2
06-02-04, 03:00 PM
Well Mario, you of all people should know of the chasim between Dirt car vs, road racing fans, not to mention the egos of the players. As one of the few drivers all sides respect, you of all should know the preceeding actions was going to hurt. Fallout is inevitable, and if the unification ever takes place, it will take time to heal the wounds. The civil war has not lasted as long as this split has. If you count the first split in 1979 and the interim period as a cease fire, like I do, it has lasted 25 years. Hard feelings indeed.
jcollins28
06-02-04, 03:35 PM
Interesting gossip from Champweb.net ....
Silent talk had Mario Andretti and Roger Penske sitting down in the Penske Motorhome during the rain delay with both very disappointed in what the Indy 500 has become (lack of fan and media interest).
Some type of agreement between the two has Penske and Andretti sitting down for some serious discussions between them and coming up with a plan to unify the two series in the next few months. Penske will use his muscle on George, and Mario the respect he has around the Champcar series. Word is that they both agree that in order for the series to unify, George has to give up the helm and just own the series but appoint someone else to run the series, the schedule will have to be a compromise of oval/street and road races etc.
They plan on coming up with a potential leader, set of guidelines, schedule, engine, chassis etc . and present it to the two groups in private and then make it known public. Goal is to have a unified Indy 500 in 2005 (coming up with a set of rules so that both series can use their equipment) and be unified in 2006, but they hope that both sides realize that it really all should be done for 2005
Havent we heard this before? I just hope Rog did not slip Mario the kool aid.
Kinda reminds me of when Rahal and Leo Mehl, among others, came to terms on unification only to have TG "change his mind" while the press release was being written.
This has as much cred as an Elvis sighting at a trailer park.
Gomerville is the past. Let's move forward.
Madmaxfan2
06-02-04, 04:11 PM
There is one difference this time. There seems to be a whispering campaign that suggests that TG was not up to the challenge, and it is coming from the IRL side. The recent Fort Wayne Journal Gazette article plus the Road & Track article hint at a TG that may have not been all the confident and ready to take the helm of IMS. His bold move to create the IRL according to these stories were driven by others, and TG took up the Cudgel and started swinging. There seems to be an effort to indicate that the attempt was not together all that sucessfull. The shy , quiet TG portrayed in these pieces paint him as misunderstood, and that he had not burning desire to run open whee, racing, and that in his own words he is not a very good manager. That he really wants to be in the shadows. Something suggests to me that someone is starting a "TG might just be preparing to step down" type of rumor, but after the racing world gives him the "You did your best TG" routine so face can be saved. This reasoning has not been out before by anyone, so is real change taking place? Everything the IRL has done recently has been preceeded by rampant rumor. It is happening again and it somehow involves Penske as a driving force. I will not be so naive to state unification is around the corner, but this time and effort to portray as a reluctant leader is cetainly a new tact.
Methanolandbrats
06-02-04, 05:19 PM
Screw Indy. Forget about it.
FanofMario
06-02-04, 05:51 PM
I am all for a "whispering campaign" for the simple fact that ALL of open wheel is a nonidentity as of late, but how can anybody take TG for any sort of creditability? The Rahal-Mehl meetings (and who knows of other behind the scenes reproachments that have occured over the years), the "hammer" statement, the many "vision" changes and the recent court actions are all enough indication that TGs speaks with a forked tongue. With that said, maybe a strong nudge by Mario, Penske and others is what is going to get the job done. A palace coup would be good for all of open wheel at the moment.
Talk is cheap, I got that here we go again feeling.
Talk is cheap, I got that here we go again feeling.
In the end, I think all Penske wants is an Indy 500 he feels is worth winning again. Well, eff him on that. What I (and seemingly many other fans) is a series worth following.
eiregosod
06-02-04, 09:16 PM
A little bit of damage control here by RP.
The NYT (as well as other papers) is only going to devote a single column to the I499. What better than Roger himself write the piece than a stick n' ball reporter who would only report on the real issues concerning IMS (waning attendance & TV ratings, 20 or so real entries....)
Roger's move to the EARL was to boost the stature of his chassis design/engine(ilmor) companies , why would he want reunification? Also very few could give 2 hoots for what RP thinks these days, the power is NOT in his hands, by writing these op/ed pieces he assumes some leel of authority (at least in his mind)
In the end, I think all Penske wants is an Indy 500 he feels is worth winning again.
Pete, Wouldn't you like to see that? A 500 that matters that isnt covered in tin?
/me playing devils advocate :)
pineapple
06-03-04, 12:37 AM
Penske's primary concern is the 500 - or 450 if you're not really concerned with numbers :gomer: - and he's trying to spin it to shift the blame for that race's failure on CART. These annual calls for reunification make it appear that CART was the sole guilty party in the downfall of Indy when anyone with an ounce of sense can see that TG and his 25/8 lockout was the dynamite that precipitated this avalanche.
Why should anyone give a moment's care about anything these players spout when they don't even have the stones to at least admit their fault in this trainwreck?
WTF is all this yadda about reunification? CART didn't initiate the divorce so why should it be the one who has to bring the flowers, hire the musicians, and pay for another wedding - at their expense? If the program calls for the IRL (read TG) to be the retread bride, attended by those traitorous crack whores as the bridesmaids, then OWRS needs to stay divorced - and as far away as possible from any church ministered by Roger Penske.
Mike Kellner
06-03-04, 12:58 AM
"Silent talk had Mario Andretti and Roger Penske sitting down in the Penske Motorhome during the rain delay with both very disappointed in what the Indy 500 has become (lack of fan and media interest)."
My take on this one. Mario is walking down motorhome row and the rain picks up. Roger's motorhome is at hand, and Mario sez to himself, "I bet Rog ain't servin that catered crap everyone else is stuck with.", invites himself in, stuffs down a plateful, and washes it down with a nice Italian wine.
While Mario is chowing down at the royal buffet line, Rog is telling him how he needs reunification, because the B2B opportunities at Indy suck these days. Mario nods, smiles, says I hear ya, and has a piece of french chocolate cake imported from Paris, France at $17/tiny slice, and a real expresso, made by the coffee chef.
After Mario leaves, he says to himself, Rog always did serve a good lunch.
Roger's minions put out the above story.
mk
stroker
06-03-04, 01:12 AM
Lots of good analysis previously.
My $.02--
Roger has all but admitted that in his opinion, any open wheel series in the US which doesn't include the 500 faces a financial "glass ceiling". It appears to me that he's saying if you're smart and run a racing team with a decent sponsor, you can make $X without Indy and if you run a series with Indy you can make $3X. It's like the 500 operates on the series like a turbocharger--free boost.
I think FRP feels that he's given FTG a chance and FTG has blown it, in every conceivable manner. The 500 is circling in the toilet and it's not coming back unless somebody does something drastic. I think FRP is trying to solve the problem by appealing to everybody but the fans because he knows that talking to the fans is a waste of time. If he can get the everybody but the fans to agree to unification then he thinks we fans will have nowhere else to go but back to the fold, so that's what he's trying to do.
I think he's tired of making $X (especially facing the loss of Marlboro and Toyota) and he wants to make $3X. I don't think he gives a FF for TG or anyone else--I think he wants to make money and he's tired of not making as much as he could.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Team Penske bail out on open wheel after the tobacco ban kicks in if unification hasn't happened by then.
Not that I'm complaining, mind you... :D
Madmaxfan2
06-03-04, 10:27 AM
There is no reunfication. The sport was never fully unified from the USAC-CART split in '79. It was that leftover unfinished business that kept the hopes of the anti-Cart crowd up, and allowed them to influence TG to show that world he was a man, and start the IRL. What is being rumored is a hopefully clean unification of the sport with no strings attached, such as co-sancitioning bodies, twin series promoters, seperate oval vs road racing series with a common Indy 500, etc. Anyway, the talk has yet to prove itself, and I can't blame the skeptism here, based on the past. Unfortunately, a dsyfunctional young man coming from a single parent home, albiet a rich one., cannot lead a business entity and has insecurity problems. Therefore Open Wheel racing suffers. Tony, if your past demons have truely been dealt with, then recognize your mistakes and step aside. Then you will prove you are a man.
There is no reunfication. The sport was never fully unified from the USAC-CART split in '79. It was that leftover unfinished business that kept the hopes of the anti-Cart crowd up, and allowed them to influence TG to show that world he was a man, and start the IRL. What is being rumored is a hopefully clean unification of the sport with no strings attached, such as co-sancitioning bodies, twin series promoters, seperate oval vs road racing series with a common Indy 500, etc. Anyway, the talk has yet to prove itself, and I can't blame the skeptism here, based on the past. Unfortunately, a dsyfunctional young man coming from a single parent home, albiet a rich one., cannot lead a business entity and has insecurity problems. Therefore Open Wheel racing suffers. Tony, if your past demons have truely been dealt with, then recognize your mistakes and step aside. Then you will prove you are a man.
Your point is very well made. I've attended the I500 twice, 1983 and 1989. even as far back as 83 "CART," was a dirty word on the IMS premises.
George
Andrew Longman
06-04-04, 10:25 AM
If TG decides he's not up to the task and just wants to be as anonymous as most track owners, then I could have some interest in this.
I also actually don't care if the "wounds" heal. The rift between IRL and Champcar teams, between Forsythe and Penske/Ganassi, between Gomer and road racing fans are all good for the sport, so long as there is an outlet on the track. The sport always benefits from villians. I'd LOVE to watch the quality road racers beat their brains out. I also did and always will hate watching an Unser win.
I'd LOVE to watch the quality road racers beat their brains out.
Um.... have you watched the IRL lately :laugh:
Andrew Longman
06-04-04, 12:43 PM
Um.... have you watched the IRL lately :laugh:
27 laps of Indy, that's been it, but I know your point.
I loved watching Montoya and other CARTers dominate Indy. But when many of those same drivers and teams went there to run slow, ugly cars in circles full time I lost all interest. Its like watching the Yankees play wiffle ball.
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