Robin Miller on Penkse's agenda [Archive]

rabbit

06-05-04, 07:04 PM

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/11392/

Penske's recent editorial in the New York Times that he's decided to roll up his sleeves and save open wheel racing would almost be humorous if it wasn't so self-serving and hypocritical.
"What took him so long?," chuckled Derrick Walker, who worked for Penske for 20 years before starting his own team. "I mean if anybody in this sport can help put this thing back together it's always been Penske. He's the guy who made CART and he's the guy who broke CART.
Added Neil Mickelwright, team manager for Forsythe Racing: "Why does Roger suddenly feel the need to reunite when he's been telling us the IRL is the greatest thing since sliced bread? I'd like to know what prompted it. Maybe there's a little trouble in paradise."
"Look, I enjoy Champ Car racing and I enjoyed competing at the Indy 500 and the split never did make any sense," said Forsythe, who won the last united Indy 500 in 1995 with Jacques Villeneuve. "It was all about one person wanting control and now he's devastated the Indy 500.

"I would listen if he or Roger wanted to sit down but we're not going to lay down and let the competition make the rules and dictate the tracks. Especially when we have the best series and more fans." :thumbup:

DaveL

06-05-04, 08:01 PM

Another emperor has no clothes.

The CCWS paddock is as trusting of Pimpske as we are and I view that as a good thing. They aren't about to go hop into bed with some whore who would sell his mother if he could get a margin on the profit.

Insomniac

06-05-04, 08:23 PM

You left off:

"I'm not sure why he (Penske) suddenly feels like becoming a peacemaker," said the 2003 CART champion. "But I do know that he's one captain who won't be going down with the ship."

Which is very true.

scanman

06-05-04, 09:16 PM

Screw the merger Roger, spend the next few months getting gas prices under control... :D
I would not trust this man, or any other dork in that leeeeegh... :thumdown:

GOFAST1

06-06-04, 12:20 AM

Screw the merger Roger, spend the next few months getting gas prices under control... :D
I would not trust this man, or any other dork in that leeeeegh... :thumdown:

AGREE!!!

Dave99

06-06-04, 12:31 AM

I don't trust anyone in the IRL as far as I could throw em. :shakehead

Let em chew off each others limbs over there. Couldn't happen to a nice group of fellers. :gomer:

FanofMario

06-06-04, 12:50 AM

Another great article by Robin. :thumbup: How can anybody think that anything with the words Penske or George in has any creditability? :rolleyes:

06-06-04, 06:49 AM

Message for Roger: Solve world peace and world hunger instead. OW racing in America doesn't need salvation, especially the way you retards would save it! Bite me!

sundaydriver2

06-06-04, 09:30 AM

Why is Peniske all of a sudden coming out and talking up reunification?

This is why:

"As for Penske's stance, some Champ Car owners believe Toyota and Honda are going to bail unless IRL and Champ Car are united so The Captain is getting involved."

He's nervous as hell that Yoda and Hondai are going to take a walk. The series has no fans that go to their races or watch on TV.

How can they justify the kind of money they are pissing down the toilet to shareholders? The Idiotgrandson has noone to answer to, but Hondai and FToyota do.

Say good night Rog, you got on the wrong boat. Hope you have a big life preserver. :thumbup:

gjc2

06-06-04, 09:40 AM

There indeed seems to be trouble in paradise. As Mr. George is pitching his series to potential sponsors, Mr. Penske is talking about the need for “unification”. Will potential sponsors realize that maybe Mr. George is exaggerating, just a bit, when he tells them how great the IRL is?

Mr. Penske should be trying to convince Mr. George (or maybe Mrs. Mari Hulman George) finish the 2004 season then pull the plug on the IRL.

George

Dave99

06-06-04, 11:26 AM

sundaydriver2

06-06-04, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=Dave99]
Not sure how sales have been for both Toyota and Honda over the last two years but at least they have Indy 500 Winner posters hanging in their dealer's part dept now. That's gotta be worth something. :gomer:[/QUOTE

Spend somewhere around 50 million dollars so your part departments can hang a poster of a Crapwagon winning a race that gets a whooping 4.1 TV rating.

Yeah, that's a smart business move. :rolleyes:

Toyo and Fonda are leaving the Wrecking League to go Nascab racing in '06.

Racewriter

06-06-04, 01:37 PM

Penske's agenda is Penske. It always has been, it always was, and it always will be.

Of course, a lot of you guys loved him a few years ago...

JT265

06-06-04, 01:42 PM

Of course, a lot of you guys loved him a few years ago...

Of course, you didn't include me in that broad brush did ya?

Didn't think so. ;)

SteveH

06-06-04, 02:42 PM

Penske's agenda is Penske. It always has been, it always was, and it always will be.

Of course, a lot of you guys loved him a few years ago...

I certainly did. Was my favorite team. But things change. Roger changed, I didn't. Just as you were a big proponent of the early IRL. It changed, you didn't. Right?

Chaos

06-06-04, 02:51 PM

Penske's agenda is Penske. It always has been, it always was, and it always will be.

Of course, a lot of you guys loved him a few years ago...

You're right. Penske's agenda is Penske. It was evident then too, but his agenda coincided with ChampCar fans (well, with respect to running in the series)

Penske is a business man first. I don't fault him for that. At this point, a unification/merger/whatever is good for business.

Winston Wolfe

06-06-04, 02:57 PM

How can they (T&H) justify the kind of money they are pissing down the toilet to shareholders?

Not sure how sales have been for both Toyota and Honda over the last two years but at least they have Indy 500 Winner posters hanging in their dealer's part dept now. That's gotta be worth something. :gomer:

Dave, I can tell you that Honda CAR sales have been flat, or down marginally, over the last two years. Truck and Van sales have been keeping the company on the plus side with the addition of new models (Pilot, ELEMENT, updated Odyssey) AND Truck and Van sales will be enhanced when they add the completely redesigned Odyssey and an SUT in early '05.
But I digress...
I can also tell you that there is LITTLE to basically NO support for the EARL at the Honda HQ out here... There used to be all employee meetings in the Main Cafeteria each time Honda powered drivers won a CART race (from when I started in '98 through '02), and during the LB race and Fontana race, ALL of the drivers would make an appearance in the Main Lobby and the employees and vendor support was HUGE... the place was packed!!!
NOW, when the irl teams come to town (for Fontana ONLY, in Sept), even though there are many of the same drivers, there are about 1/3 of the folks gathered to "celebrate"... It really took the wind out of Honda's sails last year when TRD won the i500..... from a public relations standpoint, Toy was on a roll, winning the last CART title in '02, and then, the i500 in '03.... It was HIGHLY important that H win the i500, the Motegi race, and the EARL Championship, in order to get back ahead of Toyota. The fact that they did it this year, gets them back on somewhat even footing...
I know a few of the folks at Toyota as well, and I can tell you that not many of them are talking openly about being in the EARL.... Its more like "well, at least we are still in some form of racing" type of thing.... But they are talking more about the NCTS effort than the EARL deal.... They ask me if I know when we are getting into NCTS, since we have a "truck" coming out in early '05....
I really hope we dont. Unless that means the $$$ for the EARL dries up, and we quit that silly roundy-round wreckin' league :gomer:

Winston Wolfe

06-06-04, 03:07 PM

You're right. Penske's agenda is Penske. It was evident then too, but his agenda coincided with ChampCar fans (well, with respect to running in the series)

Penske is a business man first. I don't fault him for that. At this point, a unification/merger/whatever is good for business.

I've got to wonder what Penske's agenda REALLY is... I mean, c'mon, this guy is no dummy, and have built up a HUGE fortune through aquisition, merger and is successful in virtually everything that he does. In general, and in most of his business ventures that I am aware of, he expects alot of his people and they are compensated well...
Roger may be getting older now, and I believe he is still on the BoD for some other companies. I dont think that for a minute that he is being sentimental, or looking to mend fences at all... this is purely a business deal that he sees has the HUGE potential to not work out in his favor, and I believe he knows the IRL is not going to prosper. It will certainly survive, with little to no fan support, marginal TV ratings, and contrived racing. Now the EARL500 is over, there is nothing to look forward to except travelling across the various cookie cutter 1.5 mi D shaped oval tracks, where his drivers plant their foot on the floor and drone around for 2 hours, hoping to avoid the inevitable "big one" in front of thousands and thousands of UNSOLD seats, and grandstands covered in aluminum.... sounds GREAT doesn't it...
Welcome to the dark side, Rog..... you made your decision because that was what the sponsors wanted, right ?????
First, you have to get Tony George fired. With all of your years of Corporate dealings, I am sure you could get that handled.

Lizzerd

06-06-04, 03:55 PM

Penske's agenda is Penske. It always has been, it always was, and it always will be.

Of course, a lot of you guys loved him a few years ago...

Not being political here, but the late Ronald Reagan said when he switched from the Democrat party to the Republican party, "I didn't leave the Democrats, they left me." Same with Penske for me. I never was a fan of his, I was always in the anybody-but-Penske crowd. I did admire and respect him though. The last three years and his recent and past comments put him in the same class as FAF, FBR, FTG, and others of their ilk.

Madmaxfan2

06-06-04, 06:36 PM

Roger's first task is to get Tony George to say I am sorry, and to admit that the IRL was a failure, and relinquishes any future leadership in leading a top level open wheel series. Tony will be busy rebuilding the Indy 500.

oddlycalm

06-06-04, 06:55 PM

My only interest in Penske was due to my interest in Mark Donohue. After Mark's death, I've never been a Penske supporter. Penske didn't all of a sudden change during the last few years, he only became more overt in his actions. He's behavior is right in synch with what it's been all along.

I suspect that finding a replacement for Marlboro sponsorship has been a humbling process, and TG's struggle to find a series sponsor has just added to that concern. He knows that the handwriting is on the wall when it comes to Toyoda and Honda unless there is a big change, and the I500 is certainly not what it was. If he didn't already know that, the potential sponsors that turned him down no doubt made it quite clear.

On the other hand, CCWS has the advantage of being a small closely held company that owns the engines it needs to power the series, and which it bought for a song in the CART bankruptcy. Due to the enhanced reliability the rebuild charges from Cosworth are quite affordable, yet they still sound like a turbo charged champ car. It has strong attendence figures, which is a major issue for sponsors, and it has a management team that is concerned with the kind of experience the fans have, which may be the most important factor of all. We all know that Champ Car racing at it's best is a very compelling sport, and these guys are making moves to restore it to that status. Costs are under control, and the foundation is in the process of being laid for a first rate series.

A strong CCWS will take the wind out of any significat EARL expansion into road racing, which effectively kills their expansion plans, and which makes Honda and Toyoda's future participation even more questionable. Meanwhile, the hardcore EARL fans have had to swallow foreign drivers replacing their local favorites, the evil of factory engine leases, favoring of CART washout teams, and a slow but steady death spiral for their one big race. One wonders what it is they have to look forward to and how long they will stick it out. Rest assured that Penske won't wait around to see.

oc

Hot Rod Otis

06-06-04, 07:44 PM

After reading that article I was reminded of Danny Sullivan's quote about "The Captain". I think it was "When the music stops, Roger always has a chair." Could this be Roger trying to make sure the chairs are aligned properly?

RTKar

06-06-04, 07:52 PM

scanman

06-07-04, 07:33 AM

I'm sure that they were rubbing their hands with glee before the bankruptcy
thinking they would kill ChampCars so they couldn't answer the bell...with the last 2 defections and 2 races (now 3) ChampCars are still standing..
and just this morning I was watching another crown jewel of ChampCars tracks getting ready for the Race...TORONTO MOLSON INDY
The crown jewel of the twirl leeegue is now like last weeks garbage (in the dump) and flags are being raised...I'm sure there are more the the craptan
wanting a seat...
DON'T ever trust them...F'em all.. :thumdown:

Rogue Leader

06-07-04, 07:58 AM

Penske is out for the Dollar bills... I doubt its even about racing for him anymore. Now hes all "lets make up" because he realizes the Marlboro money he counted on is gone. Marlboro is one of the reasons hes in the IRL in the first place (IRL had a better TV deal and racing/sports is the ONLY way tobacco companies can get their name on TV), amongst other reasons that we've discussed here. So the sponsors are like screw the IRL, Marlboro is gone (which sucks, because no matter how much penske is a sellout thats still one of the greatest racing paint schemes ever), so Penske has to think about number one (him) and make sure the cash flow doesnt stop. IRL is tanking, and Champ Car is on the way back up, so ol' Rog got his kneepads out and is headed back to the street corner.

The question is, do we really wanna see Helio and Sham behind the wheel of a Champ Car? Its Possible they could make Mazzacane look good... :D

nrc

06-07-04, 08:40 AM

The question is, do we really wanna see Helio and Sham behind the wheel of a Champ Car? Its Possible they could make Mazzacane look good... :D

Helio had 6 wins in a Champ car before he took his act to the IRL. I think he would do fine.

Madmaxfan2

06-07-04, 09:33 AM

I think that Hornish is the real question mark here.

cart7

06-07-04, 09:37 AM

I think that Hornish is the real question mark here.
No question mark at all. Hornish excels at the foot to the floor cookie cutters but has much more difficulty navigating any track that might require the use of more than one pedal a lap.

scanman

06-07-04, 09:43 AM

Smilie..:guywhopizzeson:....castrowneves/whornish :gomer:

datachicane

06-07-04, 04:33 PM

Helio had 6 wins in a Champ car before he took his act to the IRL. I think he would do fine.

Bingo.
Helio's got his faults, no doubt.
While he's probably more than a bit rusty, not being able to drive just ain't one of them.
Doesn't anbody else remember him hustling Hogan's POS token Lola?

Used to be the lemmings had a near-monopoly on rating drivers based solely on politics, loyalty, "knowing what Indy means", and all sorts of other off-track distractions.

oddlycalm

06-07-04, 05:31 PM

"When the music stops, Roger always has a chair." Could this be Roger trying to make sure the chairs are aligned properly?

In a word, yes. The fact that he's making such overt moves tells us volumes about the true state of the EARL with serious potential sponsors, and how secure he feels with the Japanese engine suppliers holding all the cards.

Penske has also come to the realization that if CCWS keeps all the top road and street race dates tied up, which is looking increasingly likely, the EARL has no where to go. It remains to be seen if the EARL is able to get a date at Mid-Ohio and maybe wrestle Portland and another race or two away from CCWS, but unless they can pick up big events like Long Beach, one of the Canadian races or Mexico City (controlled by Forsythe) and which are all extremely unlikely, it will all boil down to spending huge money for all new cars in return for almost no payoff in expanded audiences.

The full court press is on, and you can count on the fact that the organizers of all of the most successful CCWS road racing dates are receiving the same full court press, with whatever local business big dogs Penske knows being pressed into action to twist arms. The NYT spot is simply another pressure point to use with business people.

The big question in my mind is what Penske is going to demand from TG in order to deliver (assuming he can). Any agreement to consolidate the series would have to make the Three Amigos whole financially, and we can assume it would also require TG to step aside from any day to day involvement. I don't see either happening unless perhaps Penske can leverage several major sponsors into making long term sponsorship commitments contingent on a reconcilliation.

oc

JoeBob

06-07-04, 05:38 PM

Penske is looking for a sponsor to replace Marlboro. Perhaps he's not having much luck.

Wally

06-07-04, 06:14 PM

BINGO OC!! And well said at that. :thumbup:

Racewriter

06-07-04, 06:58 PM

Bingo.
Helio's got his faults, no doubt.
While he's probably more than a bit rusty, not being able to drive just ain't one of them.
Doesn't anbody else remember him hustling Hogan's POS token Lola?

Used to be the lemmings had a near-monopoly on rating drivers based solely on politics, loyalty, "knowing what Indy means", and all sorts of other off-track distractions.

You're not supposed to remember that, dc...

RaceGrrl

06-07-04, 09:00 PM

oddlycalm- I think that is post of the day. Spot on.

Racewriter: In spite of how much I hate Helio's antics since he defected, some of us haven't forgotten that he was a good road racer. That's what made his enthusiastic koolaid-drinking so crappy.

dando

06-07-04, 10:03 PM

oc, nice post. IMHO, the other point to be made is that ol' Rog was counting on C^RT to be dead by now (18 mos. proclamation and the bankruptcy proceedings). That didn't happen, so now it's back to the drawing board, and time for a new vision.

-Kevin

sundaydriver2

06-07-04, 10:58 PM

With every successful race that CCWS has, the harder it will be for the Idiotgrandson to convince potential race venues that they should have an Indy car race. If Portland can get a race day attendance bump like Milwaukee, I think the IRL is doomed. A decent or better size crowd at PIR will show a definite trend upwards for Champ Car and could snowball for the rest of the year. It would think it would be incredibly difficult for the Crapwagons to persuade a promoter/track owner that they can do better. The only way the Crapwagons race is if the write a huge check.

The full court press will be on indeed.

I'm sure that the three guys in charge at Champ Car will be doubling up on there efforts as well.

JohnHKart

06-08-04, 06:17 AM

"said Forsythe, who won the 1995 Indy 500."

Team Green won the 1995 Indy 500. Forsythe-Green split up after 1994, and Forsythye and Green ran separate teams in 1995. I'm surprised Miller said that, since he always talks about 1995 alot. EDIT: The error has already been fixed on the Speed page.

John

eiregosod

06-08-04, 07:32 AM

the earl expansion is complete, they arent going to add any more races on oval tracks they dont race on already. to keep growing they need road courses.

With their cars being dog-awful slow on road courses and ovals like Nazareth going under.

Was it just luck that CART left Nazareth, Gateway etc.. & ditched the plan for the earl spec 3.5l engine?

Madmaxfan2

06-08-04, 09:34 AM

oddlycalm

06-09-04, 08:52 PM

You are right OC about the conditions for a merger, but economics have a way of forcing team owners and series leader agenda aside if survival is key.
What is the result is a merger might be more likey than you think, and it will not be to everybody's total satisfaction.

Economics have't caused TG to come up for air yet, so I remain skeptical. He's the only player left in the game that was interested in a new series. Nobody knows what his pain threshold is, or at least nobody willing to talk. From what I have seen so far from this guy, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see him ride it all the way into the ground.

Penske is clearly feeling the squeeze though, and if he is with his connections you can pretty well imagine how it looks for the rest of the teams. Tobacco companies aside, a list of all of the sponsors that have departed since 1995 sends the most powerful message of all. My guess is that's the list that Penske is focused on most intently at the moment.

I'm sure you're right about any accommodation not being to everyone's total satisfaction, but anything that happens next had better meet with complete race fan and sponsor satisfaction, or the end may arrive much sooner and more suddenly than anyone anticipated.

oc

Chiphead_Dave

06-09-04, 09:10 PM

I personally think that FTG will ride it to the end. Or until someone ends it for
him. The only other posibility is Taxicabs at the indy 500.

Heard over an loudspeaker in 2010
Goodday lady's and gentlemen welcome to the I500 fire sale. Get your seats your bricks from the track and the urinal from Tony Georges office. Of course the urinal has never been used because he couldn't stand up to pee.

No offense intended to readers who genetically can't stand up to pee.

JohnHKart

06-10-04, 05:21 AM

Bingo.
Helio's got his faults, no doubt.
Doesn't anbody else remember him hustling Hogan's POS token Lola?

That 99 Hogan Lola was a great car that looked good and was fast. The only thing about it that was S was the Mercedes bomb of a motor. How many 1999 races did Helio drop out of in the lead because of that Mercedes POS motor??? The lola was definitely not a POS...Helio joked that Lola owed him royalties when everyone rushed out to get one for the 2000 season.

John

http://www.theautochannel.com/callahan/99laguna/castro_neves01.jpg

cart7

06-10-04, 05:47 AM

I'm sure Rog has figured out that over half the earl field is funded by T or H money and NOT by legitimate sponsor $$'s. Add in the feedback he's getting due to talking with potential sponsors to replace Marlboro and he's looking at a very shaky house of Cards far worse than Cart ever was and all based on the whims of a couple of whorish engine manufacturers who are already casting their eyes on a couple other series far bigger than the earl could ever dream to become.

mueber

06-10-04, 08:42 AM

Penske’s editorial in the New York Times is simply a measure of how ridiculous his ego has become. The typical reader of the New York Times don’t know were the city of Indianapolis is, and he has accomplished nothing among those who care except to look like a self-serving SOB.

We would all like to think that the participants in open wheel racing are good stewards of the sport. Penske, Ganassi, George, Honda, Toyota, Target, Marlboro all proved that stewardship is the furthest thing from their minds. Perhaps some of them will look beyond greed and selfishness soon, but Rahal and Fernandez make that look unlikely.

So it is up to you. Here is my proposal for “unifying” open wheel racing: You know how you were planning to go to one OWRS race this year? Go to two instead. If you were planning on going to two, go to three, and take a friend. Watch the races on Spike, support the sponsors, and boycott those who do business with Tony George. It’s a slow process, but it will work in the long run.

datachicane

06-10-04, 11:34 AM

That 99 Hogan Lola was a great car...

I don't know about a great car- after all, IIRC it was the only Lola in the field that year after the 98 Lola fiasco, and was supposedly a freebie given to Hogan at that. Hard to say whether the bad memories of the '98 chassis alone were enough to dissuade other teams from running them.

I agree that Helio pulled some decent performances out of the car, and I think he's got a strong argument for having earned a commission on each '00 Lola sale...

Hot Rod Otis

06-10-04, 11:46 AM

Rob

06-10-04, 12:42 PM

There was 1 other Lola on the grid in 99. Peyton-Coyne ran a Lola for Jourdain. It was 1998 that Arnd Meier and Davis Racing ran the only Lola following Lola's 1997 debacle. But it was Helio's preformances in the Lola that made people sit up and take notice, of him and the car. He was quick @ Nazareth, was really the only one that had anything for Montoya that day, till he crashed. Luiz Garcia Jr ran a 2nd Hogan Lola at some later races.
Also in the middle of '99 Penske switched to Lolas when he realized what a horrible car the PC27 was.

devilmaster

06-10-04, 01:08 PM

So it is up to you. Here is my proposal for “unifying” open wheel racing: You know how you were planning to go to one OWRS race this year? Go to two instead. If you were planning on going to two, go to three, and take a friend. Watch the races on Spike, support the sponsors, and boycott those who do business with Tony George. It’s a slow process, but it will work in the long run.

And vote for me as Prime Minister of Canada. As the PM, I will ensure Canadian companies that constantly recieve tax write offs and loans from this government (read: Bombardier) will not use those funds to sponsor series and races that are not in Canada.

Steve

Easy

06-10-04, 01:34 PM

There was 1 other Lola on the grid in 99. Peyton-Coyne ran a Lola for Jourdain. It was 1998 that Arnd Meier and Davis Racing ran the only Lola following Lola's 1997 debacle. But it was Helio's preformances in the Lola that made people sit up and take notice, of him and the car. He was quick @ Nazareth, was really the only one that had anything for Montoya that day, till he crashed. Luiz Garcia Jr ran a 2nd Hogan Lola at some later races.

Payton-Coyne ran a second Herdez Lola in a few rounds for Memo Gidley as well (as seen in the photo above).

That 97 Lola was silly looking. The half-azzed high nose did not look right. Being slow didn't help its cause either.

Ziggy

06-10-04, 05:43 PM

and Castro Neves was out of a job until Greg flipped at Fontana.........

I didnt forget racewriter. I never liked Penske. I was a Ganassi fan! Had buds working there, liked Jimmy and Alex, thought Juan was an excellent choice. Even if they had not jumped ship, Renna and Dixon do nothing for me, Tomas either. Manning I think has talent. Still dont do the Earl

which is a concept Brickman cant grasp. Here is the deal ace. IRL Indy 500 = drone fest. I had people tell me "its still about being the bravest" to which I say horsefeathers. Its about track position, and missing the blocker cars. Everyone goes the same speed. Bruno was walking away in clean air. Adrian was walking away in clean air. While Rice had the fastest car..... its like saying your sister has the finest Tits. Something all Gomers can relate too

Ziggy