Just how bad is the track surface at Pocono?

[pchall]

Wow.

The pits look like a really bad road course and the oval itself is an ad for computer controlled suspensions.

Will NASCAR leave this dump for a track that ISC builds in the VERY near future?

[Riverside]

Will NASCAR leave this dump for a track that ISC builds in the VERY near future?
yup, probably for another 1.5 mile D oval. :shakehead

[Sean O'Gorman]

Why do they insist on running 500 miles here? Who has the patience for a race like this? I think its wierd looking at the walls and seeing how uneven they are as they go down the straightaway. :saywhat:

[fourrunner]

One of the risks of racing in the Northeast, especially in area's where it can be 95 degrees in summer, and 10 degrees in winter...

[Sean O'Gorman]

That was an ugly ending. Hope that flagman doesn't have a headache now from some redneck moron's dumb decision.

[fourrunner]

The old saying here is

"Pennsylvania is Philadelphia & Pittsburgh, with Alabama in between"

As long as the intent of the event to fans is to get as drunk as you can get, and act as obnoxious as you can, then throwing incidents will continue... adding fuel to the fire is poor officiating, finishing a race under yellow, and drivers acting out Road Rage on the track, then the Fans will react like this.

I would love to see the idiot announcers telling the rowdy drunks in person that they're not NASCAR Fans ... That IS the NASCAR Fan, no matter how hard you try to clean them up!! ;)

[Jag_Warrior]

Did the IRL ever run at Pocono? Or am I thinking about Dover?

CART used to run Pocono. Is it the track surface or the banking (or the attendance) that would be a problem for formula cars now?

[Hot Rod Otis]

Did the IRL ever run at Pocono? Or am I thinking about Dover?

CART used to run Pocono. Is it the track surface or the banking (or the attendance) that would be a problem for formula cars now?


The IRL never ran Pocono. Anton went to Pocono during a Cup weekend in 96 looking for an IRL date but was told "don't call us, we'll call you".

CART left in 89(?) because the place was a dump. Rotting boilerplate walls(John Andrettis rear got stuck in the pit wall after a nasty crash). The track itself was settling and there was a gap between the track and bottom of the wall and all kinds of garbage would get sucked out on the track. The washboard surface. It was either Tom Sneva or Bobby Rahal who said that at Pocono, on the front stretch, the track was so rough it made his glasses bounce around so much he couldn't even read his gauges.

I don't know what shape its in now, but I don't see CCWS or IRL going there.

[DaveL]

Pocono would have to be regraded before a formula car runs there. I love the layout of the track, and evergreens add beauty to the facility, but there is no way a formula car can run there right now.

Besides, the track isn't what IRL fans like. Drivers can't simply floor the throttle and steer a little. There goes the "side by side racing"-which is really 2 cars that can't get out of each others way, but that's a different thread.

[fourrunner]

The IRL never ran Pocono. Anton went to Pocono during a Cup weekend in 96 looking for an IRL date but was told "don't call us, we'll call you".

CART left in 89(?) because the place was a dump. Rotting boilerplate walls(John Andrettis rear got stuck in the pit wall after a nasty crash). The track itself was settling and there was a gap between the track and bottom of the wall and all kinds of garbage would get sucked out on the track. The washboard surface. It was either Tom Sneva or Bobby Rahal who said that at Pocono, on the front stretch, the track was so rough it made his glasses bounce around so much he couldn't even read his gauges.

I don't know what shape its in now, but I don't see CCWS or IRL going there.


All True ... I used to sit in the 'Winners Circle Club" which was in the "Tower" on the start finish line ... our seats were directly in front of Paul Newman & Joanne Woodward who had nice easy going conversations with my partners wife! Paul was friendly enough just not real chatty - but would say hi & goodbye!

We would go every year from the beginnings of CART ...

I witnessed the accident where the boilerplate walls supported by vertical "I" beams tore John Andretti's car apart ... all that remained in one piece was the cockpit ... I never heard so many people so quiet. Thankfully John escaped with a broken leg, and bruises . but it looked much worse.

CART as a condition of it's contract renewal with Pocono demanded improvements . The Mattioli's who own the track refused (kind of a you can't push us around attitude) and CART left.

Of course for spite, the Mattioli's immediately paved the track and went to concrete walls for NASCAR. Virtually everything CART requested.

The changing weather in the Pocono Mountains precludes any improvement to the walls and racing surface to last very long, so there is little chance that Champ Cars or the IRL could realisticly Race there considering todays safety demands.

If you watched any of the front straight shots on the TV today, you'd realize that those "Wavy" walls were once straight.

But I enjoyed EVERY Race at Pocono when CART raced there !

[fourrunner]

Pocono would have to be regraded before a formula car runs there. I love the layout of the track, and evergreens add beauty to the facility, but there is no way a formula car can run there right now.

Besides, the track isn't what IRL fans like. Drivers can't simply floor the throttle and steer a little. There goes the "side by side racing"-which is really 2 cars that can't get out of each others way, but that's a different thread.

:thumbup:

A Tri Oval requires some thought and considerable ability by the driver, but the Crapwagon once the peddle is lifted must regain momentum which takes a half a lap on this type of track!

Last nights IRL race was a bore ... 4 hours of it would be like sticking needles in your eyes! ;)

[Rogue Leader]

Pocono is a good NASCAR track because its as they say a "R-oval" They have to actually shift. Its beat up but its an exciting race.

I'm going there in early july to run Formula Dodges (Skip Barber is doing a one-off there for this summer, Bertil Roos usually runs there) on the South Course, I'll give eveyrone a better prospective on how crappy it is, but from what I saw today I hope skippy doesnt dip into my damage deposit when that track surface rips up the underside of my race car....

[Hink]

Pocono could be a really cool track but instead it's like the neighbor who hasn't painted his wooden house in 30 years.

[Brickman]

All True ... I used to sit in the 'Winners Circle Club" which was in the "Tower" on the start finish line ... our seats were directly in front of Paul Newman & Joanne Woodward who had nice easy going conversations with my partners wife! Paul was friendly enough just not real chatty - but would say hi & goodbye!

We would go every year from the beginnings of CART ...

I witnessed the accident where the boilerplate walls supported by vertical "I" beams tore John Andretti's car apart ... all that remained in one piece was the cockpit ... I never heard so many people so quiet. Thankfully John escaped with a broken leg, and bruises . but it looked much worse.

CART as a condition of it's contract renewal with Pocono demanded improvements . The Mattioli's who own the track refused (kind of a you can't push us around attitude) and CART left.

Of course for spite, the Mattioli's immediately paved the track and went to concrete walls for NASCAR. Virtually everything CART requested.

The changing weather in the Pocono Mountains precludes any improvement to the walls and racing surface to last very long, so there is little chance that Champ Cars or the IRL could realisticly Race there considering todays safety demands.

If you watched any of the front straight shots on the TV today, you'd realize that those "Wavy" walls were once straight.

But I enjoyed EVERY Race at Pocono when CART raced there !

I was there for the last race, always enjoyed the races. Always hated the stands. With the money they make on Cup the place should shine now.

[Andrew Longman]

Pocono is a good NASCAR track because its as they say a "R-oval" They have to actually shift. Its beat up but its an exciting race.

I'm going there in early july to run Formula Dodges (Skip Barber is doing a one-off there for this summer, Bertil Roos usually runs there) on the South Course, I'll give eveyrone a better prospective on how crappy it is, but from what I saw today I hope skippy doesnt dip into my damage deposit when that track surface rips up the underside of my race car....


I did Bertle Roos on the South Course on 16 Sept 2001 (then morning after Zanardi's crash in Germany... Not a great day to take a racing class, but it certainly got my attention).

At that time the track was not too bad at 130mph. The portion of the track that runs "backwards" through Nascar T1 was a little bumpy with sealant-filled crack frost heave cracks. The infield was fine.

My complaint about Pocono for the 3-4 CART events I saw there was that the front stretch was so long you couldn't see much from the stands. I actually preferred a cheap infield ticket where I could wander from turn to turn.

I have NASCAR friends that used to rent a big box truck and sit on top in the infield. That worked really well but not they don't allow them. You can bring a half million dollar camper in and sit on top but not a $50/day Ryder. Snobs. What's NASCAR coming to? :)

[cart7]

Besides the crappy track surface, is there still no catch fencing along the back tunnel turn other than pine tree's? That guardrail along the inside of the back stretches that tore S. Parks car up so bad a couple years ago would have to go as well.

[Chief]

The roadcourse version of Pocono is just up Route 81, it's called "Watkins Glen".

The IRL is a lock at the Glen, so why not race Pocono too??? Heck, they've got SAFER now and combined with the body wicker, no way anyone can get hurt.....