View Full Version : The last 7 cars at Indy
Spicoli
06-13-04, 08:50 PM
From a very reliable source -
The final 7 cars at Indy were paid for by "Contibutions" from team winnings. This came out 2 days after Indy. Many team owners - and especially team members - whose salary relies on winnings - got the shaft. The figure I heard was that IMS/EARL retained over 30% of everyone's winnings, and that the final 7 got paid nothing but token expenses. Pile that on top of the mandatory "Contributions" teams make to the year end "MIllion Dollar Series Prize...." and the checks from Indy were about half of what they should have been. Also mentioned were mandatory "contributions" from Driver's personal appearance money. too.
I waited a while - didn't see this anywhere, so there it is.
Pretty sad, huh? You run a race for what you thought was going to be a certain payout - and BLAM - you helped get Greg Ray :gomer: a ride. :shakehead
Methanolandbrats
06-13-04, 08:53 PM
Damn, give the shaftees a few months to chew on that one.
Railbird
06-13-04, 09:22 PM
I was waiting for this to break.
Of all the back door charges IMS levies this one is complete BS. It amounts to a payroll deduction to support the inept.
Of all the back door charges IMS levies this one is complete BS. It amounts to a payroll deduction to support the inept.
... track owner.
GOFAST1
06-13-04, 10:57 PM
Indy and real Indy car has died after 1995.This irl bs is garbage from day one. Thank God for Champcar and Champcar fans.
how fast was this denied?
From a very reliable source -
The final 7 cars at Indy were paid for by "Contibutions" from team winnings.
The upshot of that (for Tony, anyway) is that is no one can accuse him of subsidizing 25% of the field for a full grid. And the vision continues on... :gomer:
vision + evolution = visilution
pineapple
06-13-04, 11:22 PM
I'm trying to come up with those last 7 off the top of my head:
Ray, Lazier, Simmons, Jones, McGeehee...
Gives new meaning to that race winning$ list they so proudly publish after the race.
pineapple
06-13-04, 11:25 PM
vision + evolution = visilution
Dissolution would be a lot better.
Everybody got money sans Gweggie Wray is what Im hearing. This is nothing new. IRL has been holding some of the money (10% is what I learned) for the season ending point fun since the league's inception
Spicoli
06-13-04, 11:38 PM
how fast was this denied?
As far as I know - this has not been published anywhere. Feel free to post it on TrackForum. I'd like to see what the Gomerati have to say about it.
Might make for a good RM or Cave-in question as well. :saywhat:
Spicoli
06-13-04, 11:40 PM
Everybody got money sans Gweggie Wray is what Im hearing. This is nothing new. IRL has been holding some of the money (10% is what I learned) for the season ending point fun since the league's inception
But payting for the last 7 cars with others "earnings" is new. And doing it - notifying the teams AFTER the fact - is immoral, bad business, and underhanded. :thumdown:
Nothing those maggots do surprises me anymore.
Jag_Warrior
06-13-04, 11:58 PM
From each according to his ability. To each according to his need.
TG's heroes would be proud.
And this did? HAHAHA. Dude, that entire thing is a major sham. Nothing surprises me. Not even Tony George getting the Old Timers highest award, The Louis Meyer award for the person who is most responsible for the advancement of autoracing in the past 12 months.
Thats right racefans, Our boy Tony wonned it! Dont that just take the cake? Freakin' Mexican Laundry's in Beech Grove selling tickets to Indy, 8 thousand (maybe) there for poleday and they give him an award for "doing a good job"!
Nothing, and I mean Nothing, surprises me anymore.
Did you notice how fast Sam Whorish's car was in the middle stint of that "Little Ole' Race from Texas" Saturday night? Wow, even Captain Liverspots is down with the little button on the dash. Guess it's OK seeing how he does not have the big bad Honda engine. So what, next year He will probobly buy Honda, and lock everybody else out! Then the Lemmings at TurdForum will think its a brilliant idea! He's the Captain! He's the Man!
Guys bumping wheels at 200 mph and the announcers calling it "good racing". Thats just stupid, anybody who ever saw any driver take a tumble in a sprint car will tell you bumping wheels with an open wheeled racecar is just a recipe for disaster. It is not anymore, repeat after me, IT'S GOOD RACIN'
PS - Miller know's about the Tonybucks. Im sure his golf buddies were bitching about it. It would be a good question to mail into the truth tomorrow, night, along with the gofast button for Toyota now that they are sucking fumes. All this crooked **** is old news, like 1996 old!
Jag_Warrior
06-14-04, 12:55 AM
I don't watch IRL races but now I'm really curious. What Toyota button? What's the function? Do all runners have it, all Toyotas or just Penske Toyotas????????
Why is all this underhanded, fly-by-night sh... stuff not spoken about in the media???
Napoleon
06-14-04, 06:53 AM
Might make for a good RM or Cave-in question as well. :saywhat:
Somebody do it and post the reply here!
Railbird
06-14-04, 07:05 AM
Why is all this underhanded, fly-by-night sh... stuff not spoken about in the media???
Other than Indy there just isn't a lot of media pressure. Most of the folks on that "beat" are lapdogs more worried about retaining credentials than breaking a story.
Spicoli
06-14-04, 08:05 AM
Why is all this underhanded, fly-by-night sh... stuff not spoken about in the media???
Other than Indy there just isn't a lot of media pressure. Most of the folks on that "beat" are lapdogs more worried about retaining credentials than breaking a story.
Rail is absolutley right on this one.
The free suite tickets, garage passes, and loaner pace cars are enough to keep all the shills quiet around here. The rest of the folks are either ignorant by design, or just don;t care anymore.
Rail is absolutley right on this one.
The free suite tickets, garage passes, and loaner pace cars are enough to keep all the shills quiet around here. The rest of the folks are either ignorant by design, or just don;t care anymore.
Remember the first year of the split, HBO did a special on the hows and whys of the CART/irl split and there being two 500 races Memorial Day weekend. I'd love to see an in depth follow up, especially interviews with some of the original irl followers and what they think now. It's going on 10 years,it's about time the true story came out.
eiregosod
06-14-04, 08:47 AM
if Robin Miller could get witness protection, he should write a book!
Racewriter
06-14-04, 09:30 AM
Why is all this underhanded, fly-by-night sh... stuff not spoken about in the media???
Other than Indy there just isn't a lot of media pressure. Most of the folks on that "beat" are lapdogs more worried about retaining credentials than breaking a story.
Yep.
And for a freelancer, the two questions would be:
1. Who could I get to go on the record about this? For a story like this, it wouldn't be good enough to say, "I heard," you'd have to have Owner of ABC Racing saying, "Those dirty SOB's deducted this from my check and didn't warn me."
2. To whom would I sell the story? These days, there aren't enough people out there who care about the sport to make a buck on a story like this.
Yes, the 10% Tony Tax has been part of the IRL's deal since its inception. Four years ago, when I was working on a story about purse money in big time racing, I asked an IMS official about this deduction. See, when they report the "total awards" for each year, they add all the purse money plus all the point money - yet the Tony Tax feeds the point money. Thus, they report about 1.5 million dollars twice. The response I got was very short and very angry.
For the most part, you're not going to see the daily paper guys take on an actual issue like this - they just print what they can find out easily.
I had to twist arms to get approval for mileage expenses to go to the 500. There was nooo way I was getting a hotel or any of my meals paid for, and I don't make enough to do it out of my own pocket. You can imagine what the look on my editors face would be if I told him I needed to go to Indianapolis for a week to chase down a conspiracy story about prize money being taken from teams. His response would be something like, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. However, if you know someone who is well connected and is willing to talk, PM me and I'll get you a phone number for them to call.
sundaydriver2
06-14-04, 11:08 AM
Sounds like the Idiotgrandson is either running out of cash or is tried of giving out the Tony bucks.
Either way that's good news for me. The more the Idiotgrandson relies on Yoyo and Hondai, the harder the fall will be when they dump the Wreckin' for Nascar.
:thumbup:
TravelGal
06-14-04, 11:45 AM
Dissolution would be a lot better.
Exactly what popped into my mind.
If this deduction happened without any prior notification, it's either theft or fraud. Pathetic that none of the teams/owners/drivers complain publicly. No wonder the writers don't do if the ones being shafted don't even speak up. Do you suppose any of them ever look back and see how long ago they crossed the itegrity line?
Madmaxfan2
06-14-04, 12:54 PM
16th and Georgetown, the red light district for OW racing.
RacinM3
06-14-04, 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave99
vision + evolution = visilution
Dissolution would be a lot better.
Disillusion could also be substituted.
rjohnson999
06-14-04, 02:08 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The specifics may not match, but this is getting really close to what created CART in the first place. Then we'll probably see the greed of the owners cycle back. Sanctioning bodies need to be independent of both the team owners and the track owners/promoters, but I don't see any other constituency willing to take on the role so we'll just have to live through these cycles at an ever quickening rate.
Exactly what popped into my mind.
If this deduction happened without any prior notification, it's either theft or fraud. Pathetic that none of the teams/owners/drivers complain publicly. No wonder the writers don't do if the ones being shafted don't even speak up. Do you suppose any of them ever look back and see how long ago they crossed the itegrity line?
There is a thread at TF on this now (thanks Brickman).
Spicoli, you're not very popular over there. :laugh:
Brickman
06-14-04, 02:22 PM
There is a thread at TF on this now (thanks Brickman).
Spicoli, you're not very popular over there. :laugh:
Shhhh
Quiet we are hunting wabbits.
{Oh god, now this will become a spelling thread} ;)
Spicoli
06-14-04, 02:33 PM
Thanks Brickman. I think its hilarious over there "the re si no one with more hate for IMS and TG..." **** those *******s.
They are already saying - "So What", "What about ChampCar". Well, now the tables are turned, and it sucks to be them.
I stand by my story 100%.
Ferdman
06-14-04, 03:21 PM
So we can add Socialist Racing League or Communist Racing League as another term for the Earl. There may have been disbursements made to the Champ Car teams to keep them going, but I don't believe there's been a situation where funds are taken away from one to give to another. :shakehead
Involuntary titheing at the High Church of the Pagoda and Pylon. TFF :rofl:
Will they put an alms box on the corner of 16th and Georgetown next?
Ed_Severson
06-14-04, 04:04 PM
Don't know about an alms box, but they do have a ticket office in that location, and you'd have to have pity on somebody to give them any money.
Spicoli
06-14-04, 08:48 PM
Man, those guys REALLY hate me over there. Good.
I too am amazed that nobody in the media is picking up on this. But then again, 'bird thinks I am wierd anyway. Maybe Wilke IS right, I'm just a hater with a mission.
Hey = maybe Fred will call me this year and we can talk about all this. :shakehead
everyone is on the KoolAid over there.
stroker
06-14-04, 09:07 PM
From a very reliable source -
The final 7 cars at Indy were paid for by "Contibutions" from team winnings. This came out 2 days after Indy. Many team owners - and especially team members - whose salary relies on winnings - got the shaft. The figure I heard was that IMS/EARL retained over 30% of everyone's winnings, and that the final 7 got paid nothing but token expenses. Pile that on top of the mandatory "Contributions" teams make to the year end "MIllion Dollar Series Prize...." and the checks from Indy were about half of what they should have been. Also mentioned were mandatory "contributions" from Driver's personal appearance money. too.
I waited a while - didn't see this anywhere, so there it is.
Pretty sad, huh? You run a race for what you thought was going to be a certain payout - and BLAM - you helped get Greg Ray :gomer: a ride. :shakehead
Spicoli, I don't doubt you, but this doesn't make sense to me. I must be naive. If I were a member of a crew and got bent over in the manner you just describe, I'd never go back to that event. If it meant losing my job, so be it. How do the teams rationalize getting cornholed like this--that it's the only game in town?
Hot Rod Otis
06-14-04, 09:38 PM
I too am amazed that nobody in the media is picking up on this. But then again, 'bird thinks I am wierd anyway.
everyone is on the KoolAid over there.
My guess is that nobody in the "media" gives a rats @ss about American open-wheel racing anymore. Outside of Indianapolis, who cares about IRL/CCWS anymore?
Is it any surprise now that Penske and Andretti the lesser are beating the drum for unification now? As long as TG is subsidizing the field he'll continue to strong arm the teams. And as long as Champ Car continues to race, TG will continue to shake down the IRL teams. There's a certain amount of poetic justice here, and I like it.
Long live Champ Car. :thumbup:
Spicoli
06-14-04, 10:22 PM
Spicoli, I don't doubt you, but this doesn't make sense to me. I must be naive. If I were a member of a crew and got bent over in the manner you just describe, I'd never go back to that event. If it meant losing my job, so be it. How do the teams rationalize getting cornholed like this--that it's the only game in town?
Yes - if you work in racing in Indy, get in line for a job - any job. Champ is about 1/4 the size it used to be. Many teams have folded. Existing teams are doing more with half the staff. Suppliers are living hand to mouth. Go down to Gasoline Alley (the street) and inquire about space to rent - you'll have 50 guys handing you business cards inside of 5 minutes. Its THAT bad, dood.
The IMS May race doesn;t sell out. Both series are seeing decreasing ratings and crappy attendance - Yeah its THAT bad.
If you bitch about having to do more work for less pay? There are 20 guys lined up behind you that will rake your job for 5k less a year.
From what I know here in Indy - the only shops paying close to anything they were 5-10 years ago are AGR and maybe Ganasty. Guys put up with the crap b/c they get paid.
stroker
06-15-04, 10:43 AM
Yes - if you work in racing in Indy, get in line for a job - any job. Champ is about 1/4 the size it used to be. Many teams have folded. Existing teams are doing more with half the staff. Suppliers are living hand to mouth. Go down to Gasoline Alley (the street) and inquire about space to rent - you'll have 50 guys handing you business cards inside of 5 minutes. Its THAT bad, dood.
The IMS May race doesn;t sell out. Both series are seeing decreasing ratings and crappy attendance - Yeah its THAT bad.
If you bitch about having to do more work for less pay? There are 20 guys lined up behind you that will rake your job for 5k less a year.
From what I know here in Indy - the only shops paying close to anything they were 5-10 years ago are AGR and maybe Ganasty. Guys put up with the crap b/c they get paid.
Man, that's low... They need to get some lawyers working on that situation, unless all these guys sign a contract allowing for it.
What a load of crap. :flame:
Rogue Leader
06-15-04, 12:02 PM
Someone should call into Windtunnel and blurt out this story and see what happens!
Andrew Longman
06-15-04, 02:05 PM
Someone should call into Windtunnel and blurt out this story and see what happens!
I just sent Dave an email. Tune in tonight
Chiphead_Dave
06-15-04, 03:39 PM
Does anyone have a link to Spicoli's thread at TF.
Does anyone have a link to Spicoli's thread at TF.
Link (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=45214)
Wheel-Nut
06-15-04, 03:46 PM
Does anyone have a link to Spicoli's thread at TF.
TRY THIS. (http://www.trackforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45214)
Rogue Leader
06-15-04, 04:24 PM
I just sent Dave an email. Tune in tonight
Its possible that they could put the squeeze on him. But if youre on the phone and say it live they wont catch you!
Napoleon
06-15-04, 05:02 PM
What a bunch of knobs in the TF thread (present company excepted).
I sure do not miss some of the old Speedvision Board days with some of those yahoos.
Just read the TF thread. Had this come up in CART or OWRS, Wilke would have been all over it. There would be a dozen threads about how CART/OWRS has corrupted the racing scene, blah blah blah, ad infinitum. But since its the IRL, attack the messenger, ignore the message. :shakehead
oddlycalm
06-15-04, 08:00 PM
What is evident from reading both this thread, and the one 'elsewhere', is that the Tony Tax has always existed, and was manipulated this year to fill the field. While the exact details are unclear, the fact that it happened is not.
As someone else correctly mentioned, this is the sort of thing that occasioned the formation of CART in the first place. When the track CEO and the series CEO is the same guy, the temptation mess with the final count to satisfy his own ends will eventually be impossible to resist.
There is a simple reason the US government has been successful for the relatively short period in history it has been, and that is checks and balances between the branches. That's what OW racing needs as well. The IRL's fundamental flaw is that the track owner of the largest event controls the series, and CART's fundamental flaw was that the team owners controlled the series. The temptation in either case was to be self-serving, albeit in different ways. It's too early to know what path CCWS will take, but having three team owners calling the shots has inherent problems.
In the event there is ever to be a reconcilliation (doubtful), any long term success would depend on the sanctioning body being independent of both the owners and the track management and promoters. I don't see this happening, yet it should be evident to all concerned by now that this is the only possible way forward. The fact that it isn't is the fundemental problem, and the rest are just symptoms. The fans and the sponsors are voting with their wallets in droves. It's anyone's guess when we reach the point of no return, and we may have already passed it for all we know. Whether Humpty Dumpty can be reassembled from spare parts is no longer the issue, but rather how many will be left who actually care.
Sorry to wander off topic so far, but this topic, the Penske comments in the NYT and several other recent events are most decidedly interelated.
oc
Railbird
06-15-04, 08:53 PM
Someone should call into Windtunnel and blurt out this story and see what happens!
Off the top of my head I would guess that you would get an eyeroll and the bums rush just like every other bone head who blurts things out rather than slipping the issue in as a side bar to an "acceptable" question.
act a fool, get treated as such.
Railbird
06-15-04, 08:58 PM
Great post OC
The "benevolant dicatator" and "the inmates running the asylum" are both approaches too full of easily understood but seldom avoided pitfalls to be depended on to save the sport.
OC - great response, excellant analysis of what is wrong
'bird - you gonna tell us the second part of the story that you alluded to on TF?
Rogue Leader
06-15-04, 09:01 PM
Someone should call into Windtunnel and blurt out this story and see what happens!
Off the top of my head I would guess that you would get an eyeroll and the bums rush just like every other bone head who blurts things out rather than slipping the issue in as a side bar to an "acceptable" question.
act a fool, get treated as such.
Well like i said they may be looking to put the squash on it, since it hasnt come out yet. That may be the ONLY way to get it on there...
Andrew Longman
06-16-04, 09:27 AM
Great post OC
The "benevolant dicatator" and "the inmates running the asylum" are both approaches too full of easily understood but seldom avoided pitfalls to be depended on to save the sport.
True, enlightened self interest so rarely happens.
The only meaningful example in sport I can think of is the Mara family of the NY Football Giants deciding in the late 50s or abouts to share TV revenue with the Green Bay Packers and other "lesser" teams in the NFL. They didn't have to do that but they did. Combined with turning genuine power to Pete Rozelle to make business and competition decisions, it brought the NFL to what it is.
Compared to MLB and each team striking its own TV deal, a powerless commisioner and a union running the league, and you wind up with a $200 million Yanks payroll
Racing needs one function interested only with returning value to teams, tracks and sponsors by maintaining credible competition and caring for the ultimate customer; the fans who pay the bills.
That's how NASCAR has done it, though, especially of late, they've done poorly on the "credibility" objective. And unless we're talking an ISC track, the track owners might have a complaint or two. ;)
Madmaxfan2
06-16-04, 10:59 AM
The problem with NASCAR is it is run like the southern family business it is. That means that employee loyality is often more valuable that the knowledge base of that employee. That in my opinion is why technology is eschewed in NASCAR. Also not widely known is that most NASCAR officials on the track are largely volunteers. This works for SCCA, but given the $$$ involved, NASCAR needs to have career officials if it wants consistant decisions by the officials. So be careful of the NASCAR business model when you compare governing structures.
FanofMario
06-16-04, 11:45 AM
I got a kick out of this response at my favorite comedy site, TF....
Registered: Nov 2000
Location: The fields I used to roam
Posts: 7410
OK, I will. As interpreted by those known to be hostile toward the IRL, it's utter and complete bullsh**. This troll got tossed out there by an imbecile, repeated by someone who gets 'scoops' from a bar stool, then drooled over by the 'I've known this all along' gang.
Here's a novel idea: PROVE IT.
If you can't, find something a little more creative.
God forbid those frothing at the mouth over this concocted non-issue should ever discover sportsmanship.
I sure like to see Depender upset. :)
Pretender, Smackie and Truth Deflector can come up with some doozies.
Pretender, Smackie and Truth Deflector can come up with some doozies.
It is difficult not to laugh at Dependser when he cruises up and down the pits at IMS pretending to ride an invisible Segway:
http://home.comcast.net/~kahauna_dreamer/milestone3.jpg
:rofl:
It looks like he is runnin' for the short bus.
:rofl: :rofl:
oddlycalm
06-16-04, 03:38 PM
Pretender, Smackie and Truth Deflector can come up with some doozies.
There is no more telling indicator regarding the true character of a racing series than it's most devoted fans.... :eek: :gomer: :laugh:
oc
Mr. Pink Shirt, getting in touch with his inner woman. :gomer:
Peter Venkman
06-16-04, 05:50 PM
"see what the Gomerati have to say about it..."
So hard, my ribs hurt.
After reading the thread(s) it occurs to me that perhaps there's a bit of truth to be found in several different places.
1) It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that there were some deals made to get to 33.
2) It wouldn't surprise me to learn that some cash-strapped teams were the beneficiaries of such deals.
3) The beneficiaries of such deals, as a result of the nature of the deals, would not be the real winners, but rather, the guys who came in under the wire.
4) Cash strapped team-owners might be inclined to,...um, share the 'risk' with the workers. "Well, the good news is that we'll all be at Indy this year...."
From the thread in the CCWS forum:
**There was a lot of discussion about who paid for the last few starters in this year's Indianapolis 500. Most figured it was Tony George but, according to various IRL teams, it was a community contribution that they didn't endorse. Seems as though the IRL Leader's Circle Club may have been the largest donor. Members of the Leader's Circle get seasonal benefits for full-time participation and that includes money. The check for Indy, which had been $100,000 the past few years according to one owner, only amounted to $20,000 last month and that missing chunk of change likely paid for Robby McGeehee, Jeff Simmons and Richie Hearn, among others. Evidently, a promised sponsorship of $1 million to spread among the owners who helped out to make sure the usual lineup of 33 was secured didn't materialize. So the IRL fulltimers anted up to preserve tradition, although nobody at IMS bothered to ask their permission. And it probably hurt the mechanics most since they get a percentage of the action. Despite what the official payoff stated, it's also believed the final seven spots got paid nothing but expenses. Of course I'm sure IMS will clear all this up if my information is erroneous.
linky (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/oval/11693/)
Lends credence Spicoli's claim (not that I was a doubter). Let's see how long it takes FFN to put the kybosh on this..... :rolleyes:
-Kevin
Spicoli
06-22-04, 09:17 PM
From the thread in the CCWS forum:
linky (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/oval/11693/)
Lends credence Spicoli's claim (not that I was a doubter). Let's see how long it takes FFN to the kybosh on this..... :rolleyes:
-Kevin
I can tell you it came directly from a team, and this person would have no reason to lie. The people affected were crew and all other team members.
CONTRARY TO WHAT THE GOMERATI SPEW - ALOT OF CREW MAKE BONUSES OFF OF POINTS AND WINNINGS.
Did it affect every team? I don't know for sure, but it sure sounded like it was an across the board deal. Was the owner pizzed? YES. Nobody knew about it until they were informed Tuesday after the EARL497.5
Now - as to was the informacione revealed over a Tecate? If it pizzes off Dependser - then YES! lmfao.....
And a message to my biggest fans: Dependser and IglooBoy -
TOLD YA SO! :gomer:
Racewriter
06-22-04, 09:33 PM
It's very telling that no one has actually DENIED this rumor to this point - the constant "Hey, Tony wouldn't do that" doesn't count as a denial.
There are people who post on TF who would be in position to deny or confirm. Perhaps here, too.
Spicoli
06-22-04, 10:02 PM
It's very telling that no one has actually DENIED this rumor to this point - the constant "Hey, Tony wouldn't do that" doesn't count as a denial.
There are people who post on TF who would be in position to deny or confirm. Perhaps here, too.
Well, some Alpha Gomerati says his buddy sweeps the floor at PDM or some other UberGomer team and says he checked with him about it and said it was untrue.
So you know what that means, right? :rolleyes:
There are people who post on TF who would be in position to deny or confirm.
i'm not convinced.
Racewriter
06-22-04, 10:06 PM
Well, some Alpha Gomerati says his buddy sweeps the floor at PDM or some other UberGomer team and says he checked with him about it and said it was untrue.
So you know what that means, right? :rolleyes:
Means he's full of it.
Spook has been quiet on the issue.
stroker
06-22-04, 11:29 PM
ah, crap. Saw it was already posted.
Spook has been quiet on the issue.
I think that says a lot.
Didn't cleanupcrew investigate and declare it a non-issue? :rolleyes:
Spicoli
06-23-04, 08:56 AM
I think that says a lot.
Didn't cleanupcrew investigate and declare it a non-issue? :rolleyes:
Do you REALLY expect those Jacktards to come clean with ANYTHING that puts their series in a bad light? :shakehead
Do you REALLY expect those Jacktards to come clean with ANYTHING that puts their series in a bad light? :shakehead
Absolutely not. I see someone started a new thread but reved closed saying the issue had already been debunked. :shakehead
oddlycalm
06-24-04, 04:45 PM
the issue had already been debunked.
Translation = it's true, but it's an unpleasent fact nobody wishes to discuss.
oc
It's so funny how the bootlickers over there claim an issue "has already been debunked" when in fact it wasn't. They tried real hard to run everyone off of speednet and get them posting on their forum so they could control content like that.
Amen to that brutha! How you doing TroyM?????
The most hated man at SpeedNet. Been to traffic court of late!!!
Ziggy
funny, watching em squirm after Miller printed it.
The ones that amuse me most are the ones who finally figured out Tony George for all his false promises. :gomer: They kind of remind me of the town whore suddenly finding religion.
JohnHKart
06-25-04, 06:26 AM
funny, watching em squirm after Miller printed it.
The ones that amuse me most are the ones who finally figured out Tony George for all his false promises. :gomer: They kind of remind me of the town whore suddenly finding religion.
Reminds me of the Jim Jones followers trying to make a run for it after finding out what a monster he was as he's telling them to drink the Kool Aid.
John
Spicoli
06-25-04, 09:19 AM
Translation = it's true, but it's an unpleasent fact nobody wishes to discuss.
oc
True dat bro.
Kahauna Dreamer
06-25-04, 11:43 PM
Mr. Pink Shirt, getting in touch with his inner woman. :gomer:
There is a whole series of companion images that go with the one that was posted. I have not posted any of them here because I did not want to cause any trouble.
Amen to that brutha! How you doing TroyM?????
The most hated man at SpeedNet. Been to traffic court of late!!!
Ziggy
I'm doing pretty good Ziggy. I was pretty hated at speednet. I wonder if the old traffic judge still posts somewhere. He kind of disappeared after I posted his "lawsuit" on speednet.
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