InevitableTime Comparisons (Milwaukee)

[Brickman]

"Early times
Castroneves 162.987
Hornish 162.195
Dixon 157.852
Scheckter 157.619
Sharp 156.955
Manning 153.143
Unser Jr 149.887
Giaffone 149.890"

"10:10 a.m. top speeds
Hornish 163.913
Sharp 163.707
Castroneves 162.987
Dixon 160.531
Scheckter 159.724
Fernandez 158.269
Manning 157.767
Barron 155.859
Unser Jr 153.330
Giaffone 152.555
Takagi 151.616"

1st Practice:

1 P. Carpentier 7 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 174.973
2 R. Hunter-Reay 4 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 174.669
3 B. Junqueira 6 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 173.106

Qualify:

1 R. Hunter-Reay 4 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 181.150
2 S. Bourdais 2 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 179.765
3 P. Carpentier 7 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 179.132

[Wally]

Holy shat! Not even close.... :eek:

[Brickman]

Holy shat! Not even close.... :eek:

That conclusion was inevitable too. ;)

[Methanolandbrats]

Did some of those guys get into Atlantics Cars by mistake?

[Brickman]

Track measurements

IRL: 1.015 mile mile oval
Champ Car: 1.032 mile oval

[Wheel-Nut]

Looks like the Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone is the package to have!

[racer2c]

That conclusion was inevitable too. ;)

Not really considering the Phoenix times a few years ago. Wink.

The real discussion should be, why is the IRL even there. Or better yet, why do they even exist.

[Railbird]

How about lap times brick?

or is this another of your under cover trolls?

[Turn7]

How about lap times brick?

or is this another of your under cover trolls?
That would only cloud this thread with the truth and leave the whole saga of different measurements out of the story.

Geez Railbird, get with the program. :D

[Brickman]

How about lap times brick?

or is this another of your under cover trolls?

Boo hiss. {I can boo & hiss you can't I?} ;)

Obviously I would have included them IF I had them. Just passing along the speeds, the Champ Car speeds & times are at www.cart.com the other just arrives that way in my mailbox. As noted the track measurements are different.

[RichK]

With the speeds and different series' measurements, the calculated lap times are:

Hornish: 22.292 sec
Hunter-Reay: 20.509 sec

Not that I really give a ****, because neither series strives for outright speed anymore, the whole goal of racing these days is to slow the cars down.

The difference between the IRL and ChampCar is that it takes a hell of alot more skill to drive a ChampCar at 180mph than a crapwagon at 180mph.

[Brickman]

That would only cloud this thread with the truth and leave the whole saga of different measurements out of the story.

Geez Railbird, get with the program. :D

Oh and they will give out the lap times after the "lunch break", theirs not mine. I am truthful :eek: and pointed out twice the track was measured differently.

[Chaos]

How about lap times brick?

or is this another of your under cover trolls?

how would the times tell a different story from the speeds?

[sundaydriver2]

With the speeds and different series' measurements, the calculated lap times are:

Hornish: 22.292 sec
Hunter-Reay: 20.509 sec

Not that I really give a ****, because neither series strives for outright speed anymore, the whole goal of racing these days is to slow the cars down.

The difference between the IRL and ChampCar is that it takes a hell of alot more skill to drive a ChampCar at 180mph than a crapwagon at 180mph.


At that rate the Crapwagon would be about 17 laps down at the end of a 200 lap race.
:shakehead

[Brickman]

how would the times tell a different story from the speeds?

They formulate the track distance into the time to come up with the speed. The two series uses different measurment distances. Three if you count NASCAR. ;)

[cartmanoz]

Just goes to prove: Crapwagons are sssssssslllllllloooooooowwwwwwww.....

[Brickman]

Time for those clock watchers.

Hornish 22.2923 - 163.913

R. Hunter-Reay 20.509 - 181.150

(Kudos to RichK math skills)

[Chaos]

They formulate the track distance into the time to come up with the speed. The two series uses different measurment distances. Three if you count NASCAR. ;)

But in this case it doesnt matter since ChampCar's measurement is greater than that of the IRL, and they posted faster times in spite of it.

[Brickman]

But in this case it doesnt matter since ChampCar's measurement is greater than that of the IRL, and they posted faster times in spite of it.

Indeed

[Turn7]

But in this case it doesn't matter since Champ Car's measurement is greater than that of the IRL, and they posted faster times in spite of it.

Since Champ Car measures the track at a greater distance than the IRL, that would mean that if both series ran identical lap times, then the champ car would post a "faster" speed. That being derived from the given variables that it went farther in the same time. The Champ Car times are going to be inherently faster due to the measurement differences although the really would be covering the same distance at the same rate. Therefore a faster speed doesn't indicate a faster car unless you calculate the cars running utilizing the same variables.

The time will tell you which one is really going the fastest without recalculating the speed utilizing the others distance variable. :saywhat:

[Insomniac]

Time is the only accurate number since the cars have to complete one lap around the same course regardless of how it is measured.

RHR would've lapped the field four times before the first pit stop. :) (And probably the majority five times). Plus you take acceleration into account on restarts, it's really sad. :)

[cart7]

Hurry over to TF and post this Brick, make sure you toss 'birds name around again. ;)

[KobySon]

Are we comparing apples to apples here?

Are those just top speeds (as in fastest speed clocked in the straight), or top lap speeds?

[pchall]

Why times are important:

Hunter-Reay is about 1.7 seconds faster than Hornish around the same mile oval. The measured length of the track is immaterial to this comparison.

[pchall]

Are we comparing apples to apples here?

Are those just top speeds (as in fastest speed clocked in the straight), or top lap speeds?


Apples to Crapapples... :gomer:

Those are lap speeds.

[Brickman]

Apples to Crapapples... :gomer:

Those are lap speeds.

http://www.singlespeed.org/asia1/crapapples.jpg

"crapapples were called "the king of fruits"..."

[B3RACER1a]

Not only are the champ cars faster in total lap time, but the difference in speed between the end of the straight and the middle of the corner is greater...thats what makes them so much cooler to watch. Gateway was always cool to see this, especially with the speedway wings.

Look at the speed differential between the IRL cars! Almost 163mph to 149 mph average. Thats got to be embarrasing to be one of those backmarkers! :o

[pchall]

http://www.singlespeed.org/asia1/crapapples.jpg

"crapapples were called "the king of fruits"..."

I knew this would turn into a spelling thread. :p Are you vertically dyslexic, by any chance? It is very interesting that your linked graphic is about the 'crab apple' tree.

Now I will go back and edit my original to "horseapples" and see what your come up with from the reference section

[Brickman]

I knew this would turn into a spelling thread. :p Are you vertically dyslexic, by any chance? It is very interesting that your linked graphic is about the 'crab apple' tree.

Now I will go back and edit my original to "horseapples" and see what your come up with from the reference section

Third line from the bottom my reading comprehension friend. :p

Darn you I even quoted it so as to not be misunderstood. ;)

It was actually an interesting article.

http://www.singlespeed.org/asia1/asia33.html

http://www.thecandygram.com/picHorseApples2.jpg

Candygram! ;)

http://www.thecandygram.com/saratoga.htm

[JT265]

"crapapples were called "the king of fruits"..."

Ya mean that earl and Helio have stooped so low as to steal a crabapple's claim to fame?

:D

[Rogue Leader]

So that means that Nelson Phillipe could be competitive!!

[pchall]

FASTEST SPEEDS OF THE DAY
Pos. Car Name C/E/T Speed

1 6 Sam Hornish Jr. D/T/F 164.868 mph
2 3 Helio Castroneves D/T/F 164.582 mph
3 8 Scott Sharp D/T/F 163.707 mph
4 1 Scott Dixon D/T/F 163.332 mph
5 5 Adrian Fernandez G/H/F 162.025 mph


This is all they are showing over at the IRL site.

[FCYTravis]

So that means that Nelson Phillipe could be competitive!!
Heck, GASTON MAZZACANE would be sitting pole :rofl:

[SurfaceUnits]

FYI - The speed retardation in the eYE aRE eLL is intended to allow the sponsors' names to remain in view for a longer period of time. Of course, by the time they make it around on another lap, so much time has passed that fans have forgotten just what it was they saw last lap. :gomer:

[FRANKY]

FASTEST SPEEDS OF THE DAY
Pos. Car Name C/E/T Speed

1 6 Sam Hornish Jr. D/T/F 164.868 mph
2 3 Helio Castroneves D/T/F 164.582 mph
3 8 Scott Sharp D/T/F 163.707 mph
4 1 Scott Dixon D/T/F 163.332 mph
5 5 Adrian Fernandez G/H/F 162.025 mph


This is all they are showing over at the IRL site.

That's two more than was posted here, I can see why you wanted to check.
:D

[Railbird]

I wish I hadn't lost my old description of the first time I saw the IRL race at Gateway, but I did.

My kid and I and "racewknd" were Gateway regulars only missing the first CART race, so the first year the IRL ran there we decided to go check them out.

ALMS ran a race at Mid Ohio that weekend on Saturday so we went over there and then headed to St Louis Sunday morning. Showing up just before the start we had seen no practice or quals but we knew they were lapping about a half second slower so we didn't figure to see that much difference.

we were wrong.

After a bumbled green flag caused by one of the front row guys having a problem we watched them tip toe through one/two and then start "gathering speed" onto the back stretch. Honest to God at the halfway point on the backstretch we all three turned toward the flagstand thinking the start had been called off.

Nope, that's all they had.

The barn door wings were carrying them through three/four without lifting which was helping their lap time but the same thing was acting like a parachute on the straightaways. Add that to an abysmal acceleration rate and you had nothing more than a noisier version of Indy Lights.

These things will suck so bad at Milwaukee it will make your ears pop.

[Methanolandbrats]

These things will suck so bad at Milwaukee it will make your ears pop. :thumbup: That would make great advertising copy :D

[Chaos]

Since Champ Car measures the track at a greater distance than the IRL, that would mean that if both series ran identical lap times, then the champ car would post a "faster" speed. That being derived from the given variables that it went farther in the same time. The Champ Car times are going to be inherently faster due to the measurement differences although the really would be covering the same distance at the same rate. Therefore a faster speed doesn't indicate a faster car unless you calculate the cars running utilizing the same variables.

The time will tell you which one is really going the fastest without recalculating the speed utilizing the others distance variable. :saywhat:

you're right...i didnt think it through when i posted it. i was studying for a business class...and as you know, you make up the numbers as you go along :p

[L1P1]

Some while back I suggested a slogan for CART - "Too fast for Indy".

The IRL now has one of their own - "Slow enough for Texas".

[Spicoli]

A couple comments:

1. Why does this surprise anyone? >>Including the Gomerati Elite @ TF? They are already spinning it as though they knew it all along (much like the relevations about Tonee-Ola pay-to-play winning's skimming @ IMS)....We were supposed to already know this and besides,...

2. ...speeds and times aren't important, manufactured pack-racing IS.

3. Its all about "The Show"

4. You think this is bad? I too was told about Penske's secret test at MidO last fall, and the road course times are nightmare. No wonder they are keeping it under the doormat.

5. That speed in the straights is gonna be SLLooooooowwwwww.....while the folks hitting the exits will be Faaaaaassstttt.....

6. Fred Nation, in all his dorkiness, will find SOME way to spin this "With the EARL's new committment to safety and blah blah ****in blah..."

7. Wilke will blame OWRS/ChampCar

8. Depender will blame me

9. Rail will be dposed and seriously questioned about his "historical perspective"...

10. ChampCar will sell more tickets. :)

[fourrunner]

There are other things that are measured much shorter in the IRL, or so Helio says with a giggle ! ;)

[DaveL]

A Lola/Ford Cosworth is faster on any type of track, in any configuration than a Crapwagon. Throw the safety of the Champcar being at least the equal to the Crapwagaon, but probably superior in that regard too and there is only one conclusion: The Champcar is the superior machine, period.

[Easy]

IPS top speed in the 144 mph range, about 8 mph slower than Atlantics. Atlantics are quite fast at Milwaukee considering they have only 250hp. I remember a couple years ago hearing that the Atlantics have greater cornering speeds at Milwaukee than Champ Cars.

[B3RACER1a]

Railbird,

I missed the first Champ Car race also, but saw every other one. The differential in speed between the straights and corners was fantastic. So, I venture over to watch some IRL practice to see if its worth going to the race...its not. It was basically Indy Lights and I had no desire to watch em.

P.S. Remember that huge storm after the 98 race?


Easy,
With the old speedway wing configuration, yes they were. Not anymore.

[pchall]

Day two of the IRL experience at MKE got rained out.

Even Mother Nature needs to was away the stench of this series in a hurry. ;)

[Car-B-Q]

Milwaukee Qualifying for the Toyota Atlantics (from their website):

"On lap one, FOGARTY sets a new track record at 24.676 seconds or 150.559 mph and grabs the pole."

Just for reference.

[SurfaceUnits]

Woohoo!! New Article From Curt Cavin

ChampCar World Series Goes Back to The Drawing Board in Effort to Compete with the Dominant Indy Racing League

http://www.indybooks.net/Data/Soap4066_172.jpg

:laugh: