View Full Version : Did Kalkhoven and Forsthye make an error?
Lot of the usual IRL drivel here, but down near the bottom news that Paul Tracy was denied the chance to do a NASCAR race. Robin thinks it was a mistake. I have to agree; what do you think?
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/oval/11693/
Lot of the usual IRL drivel here...
Not to take this off-topic, but I don't see the IRL drivel. :confused:
Back on topic, yes, I think they should have let him.
Railbird
06-22-04, 05:58 PM
quality short track stuff on the top of that article imo.
Did Forsythe make a mistake?
of course.
Putting Tracy out in front of an actual audience might just stir a little interest outside of the dwindling number of American openwheel fans.
I am going to say RM may not have enough information to second guess those two businessman....
Railbird
06-22-04, 06:08 PM
Miller has been in and around racing way longer than GF and KK combined.
Now if he was advising them on fiber optics, power generation or selling out at the right time I would think he was in a little over his head.
FCYTravis
06-22-04, 06:17 PM
PT in a NASCAR?
If they thought Kevin Harvick was a bad boy, they're just lucky PT didn't get the ride... :eek:
Seriously, big miscalculation. Let him run - show him what Champ Car drivers can do.
By “drivel” I meant the notes at the bottom. That was not well written. Sorry.
Seemed like a good enough piece to me. The 'drivel' confirms Spicoli's claim from last week about the for funding for the last seven cars @ Indy, and the Penske mention confirms there was a discussion w/OWRS owners. But enough with that stuff....
IMHO, PT's racing in a tintop would only help CCWS with additional exposure (as would IROC, but to a lesser extent). Just like when C^RT returned to Indy, I would have rootin' for PT and CCWS this weekend. Other than risking injury, PT racing wouldn't have hurt the cause. It wouldn't have been a stunt like Stewart on Fill Day. Just my $.02....
-Kevin
Sean O'Gorman
06-22-04, 07:23 PM
Who wouldn't want to see PT in a Nextel Cup race? Even NASCAR would've benefitted, as they could promote the fact that an Indy 500 winner is participating.
Who wouldn't want to see PT in a Nextel Cup race? Even NASCAR would've benefitted, as they could promote the fact that an Indy 500 winner is participating.
:rofl:
I’m dating myself, but I remember, as a young champ car fan, when I had to listen to NASCAR races on far away radio stations, being thrilled to death to hear of A. J. Foyt beating the NASCAR regulars, and I remember the respect Foyt got from the NASCAR-types when he beat them.
I’m dating myself, but I remember, as a young champ car fan, when I had to listen to NASCAR races on far away radio stations, being thrilled to death to hear of A. J. Foyt beating the NASCAR regulars, and I remember the respect Foyt got from the NASCAR-types when he beat them.
Those instances were far outweighed by all the times the NASCAR drivers whooped the pointycar champ from Texas.
Railbird
06-22-04, 08:57 PM
Foyt picked up seven Nascar wins, not bad for a part timer.
mueber, guys like Foyt, Gurney and Andretti made racing for me back then.
of course the great Jim Clark also impressed me even though he was "whooped" more often than not in F1.
must have been that versitility thing again ;)
GOFAST1
06-22-04, 09:58 PM
letting Paul drive in something that is manufactured just for the sake of a pr stunt on the other side it would ber a terrible mistake. Obviously Robin Miller doesn't have any other bs to write about and if this is the best he's got, he pretty much has nothing. Writing about racing is one thing paying someone expensive sallary and taking chance of being hurt is an other. :shakehead
Railbird
06-22-04, 10:11 PM
IMO
If letting the defending champ climb into a Childress car at a roadcourse is just a pr stunt I would judge it to be a good one.
And this series needs all the pr they can generate.
At least it might make for a better mid-race sidebar piece than watching some young dude cruising around in his floatable family riches.
Might as well stick Vasser, Bourdais and Wilson in there too with a big CHAMPCAR logo on the hood too...Bird's right, we need PR.
fourrunner
06-22-04, 10:18 PM
All I can see is Tracy being a target for some of the dumber drivers in NASCAR, which doesn't start to far from the top ...
You know for sure his reputation would preceed him.
I would give him 3 laps before he was coveniently side lined.... NOT because he isn't talented ... I would bet on a level playing field Tracy would cover the field in NASCAR ... BUT that would not be allowed to happen.
Would it be good PR for Champ Car ... Up to the Green Flag, absolutely ... once the race starts now matter how he's taken out, it would be blamed on him .... And the Dolts that live for that type of racing would believe it!
I'd definitely watch, I like Paul Tracy, but Champ Cars already has me as a Fan!
Yeah, it sucks. Childress had a one off sponsor lined up and everything, Wolo Mfg.
racer2c
06-22-04, 11:15 PM
Putting Paul (I refuse to use initials anymore, it's driving me crazy) in a tin top is not Champ Car PR. NASCAR has elevated self importance to an art form. NASCAR fans would never know where he came from or care for that matter.
Paul has said on numerous occasions that once he is too old for formula race cars he wouldn't mind prolonging his retirement in a tank, I mean "stock car". He'll have his chance, why push him?
:thumdown: :thumdown:
FCYTravis
06-22-04, 11:23 PM
Yeah, it sucks. Childress had a one off sponsor lined up and everything, Wolo Mfg.
:rofl: :D :rofl:
(for those who don't get it yet, google search it... I won't spoil the fun)
RaceGrrl
06-22-04, 11:33 PM
Putting Paul (I refuse to use initials anymore, it's driving me crazy) in a tin top is not Champ Car PR. NASCAR has elevated self importance to an art form. NASCAR fans would never know where he came from or care for that matter.
r2c, gotta agree with you on this one (except for the initials part :p ) Nascrap fans don't really care where their one-off road racing drivers come from, and Forsythe risks the injury of his defending champion driver. It just isn't worth it- not during the regular ChampCar season. After the season is over, I'd think it would be Paul's choice.
gurneyfan
06-22-04, 11:36 PM
Did Kalkhoven and Forsthye make an error?
No.
if it helps bring exposure to the series by way of racing, then it's a good thing.
This thread reminds me of the reoccuring lemming fantasy that their drivers are going win over a bunch of NASCAR fans by running in IROC or some other gomer-fest. It ain't happening unless you hand out free teeth with every race ticket, folks.
Tracy running a NASCAR race would just stir up the "Tracy bolts for NASCAR" rumors and the net benefit for CART would be nil.
Mr. Vengeance
06-23-04, 12:37 AM
Probably has more to do with Forsythe protecting his investment than anything else. The bubbas would see to it that it'd be a big ugly DNF...
Still, it would have been fun, but we'll be seeing Paul in a wally-wagon before too long, anyway.
Dr. Corkski
06-23-04, 02:54 AM
The answer is obviously no, because the OWRS god squad can never do anything wrong. :gomer:
My guess is that PT running around in a NASCAR race will probably generate more publicity for CCWS than dropping a real racing circuit for MotoCRock on some go-kart circuit in downtown Podunk. You think PT is gonna hold back if the one of the good ol' boys give him a love tap? If he makes himself a hated figure in NASCAR, which he has far too much talent in that department not to, maybe he can get a real sponsor so that Mr. Indeck wouldn't have to sell his rides to guys with learner's permits. Then again, PT should probably worry about beating the #3 driver on his own team on a regular basis first, so I can see why some people would be afraid to let him go.
KobySon
06-23-04, 03:00 AM
quality short track stuff on the top of that article imo.
Did Forsythe make a mistake?
of course.
Putting Tracy out in front of an actual audience might just stir a little interest outside of the dwindling number of American openwheel fans.
I totally agree. I don't think Tracy would have said anything controversial in that setting, but the announcers sure would have or at least should have mentioned that he is the bad boy of Champ Cars. Who knows with the fra- mafia involved... I seem to remember them dwelling on Boris Said plenty last year.
On the short track stuff, I need some educating! I loved reading that article.
:rofl: :D :rofl:
(for those who don't get it yet, google search it... I won't spoil the fun)
Thanks, I know now that at least somebody got it. ;)
rosawendel
06-23-04, 08:03 AM
sorry, bad post.
scanman
06-23-04, 09:40 AM
It ain't happening unless you hand out free teeth with every race ticket, folks.
:rofl:
Andrew Longman
06-23-04, 09:52 AM
Being in a Childress car suggests he'd have a competitive ride. That would have been good.
Being a road racing yankee ringer, the fans would automatically hate him, even if they never heard of him. They'd assume he'd taking some fan favorite's ride, or might beat a fan favorite.
3-4 years ago, I'd expect a regular to give him a punt, but the road racers seem more accepted by the drivers these days. I would have kept an eye out for Jimmy Spencer though.
There is no assumption anymore that these ringers will automatically be out in front. Many more NASCAR drivers are also good road racers, and the drivers and teams do more to prepare for the road races.
Add that Tracy would have had verry little practice time in the 3400# sled.
So,
Few would know or care who he was, and he would not likely have grabbed new fans, even if he had a surprise win. WE'D have loved it though.
I think it would have been great fun for Champcar fans. Forsythe et al denied us an extra chance to see a popular driver do what he does best. Would he have won or been competitive? Not likely, given the circumstances, but it would have been fun.
And if he had been punted off the course it would have only confirmed that we are fans of the right series.
Napoleon
06-23-04, 10:43 AM
My vote, it was a mistake. There is no such thing as bad PR.
MAXAR RE
06-23-04, 12:52 PM
GF made the correct decision. PT would have gotten 'Bodine-d' like Jeemy did when he ran that Busch race, and ended up finishing mid-pack or DNF. It was also an opportunity for Childress to sink his hooks into PT and continue his ongoign attempts to woo him into a car w/ fenders.
Mistake. Great drivers should race whenever they can, so their fans can enjoy what they do.
I would've sat in that hellacious Sears Point traffic to see Paul race.
Maybe my Laguna Seca ChampCar traffic would be a little tougher if more people found out about ChampCar? As it stands now, I can scoot right into the parking lot like it's a test day.
(for those who don't get it yet, google search it... I won't spoil the fun)
:laugh: Thank goodness for Google.
http://www.wolo-mfg.com/837.jpg
Chiphead_Dave
06-23-04, 02:26 PM
:rofl: :D :rofl:
(for those who don't get it yet, google search it... I won't spoil the fun)
That is to damm funny.
racer2c
06-23-04, 02:41 PM
The answer is obviously no, because the OWRS god squad can never do anything wrong. :gomer:
My guess is that PT running around in a NASCAR race will probably generate more publicity for CCWS than dropping a real racing circuit for MotoCRock on some go-kart circuit in downtown Podunk. You think PT is gonna hold back if the one of the good ol' boys give him a love tap? If he makes himself a hated figure in NASCAR, which he has far too much talent in that department not to, maybe he can get a real sponsor so that Mr. Indeck wouldn't have to sell his rides to guys with learner's permits. Then again, PT should probably worry about beating the #3 driver on his own team on a regular basis first, so I can see why some people would be afraid to let him go.
The same way it did for Lil'Al in IROC? Or John Andretti? Of course we've seen how Tony Stewart coming from the IRL has made the IRL rating soar! To the moon and beyond!
How's that Christian Fittipaldi's career going? :thumdown:
PT (Paul Tracy) one-off would have fueled only one rumor: ChampCar is dead and PT is looking for a sanctuary. That wouldn't be positive PR and neither was Bruno running the 500.
Bring Harvick over for a race in CCWS, send Tracy for a race there, fine. Otherwise they have everything to gain from it, period. This ain't the 60's and 70's anymore....
Sean O'Gorman
06-23-04, 04:05 PM
This ain't the 60's and 70's anymore....
You say that like its a good thing.
Wheel-Nut
06-23-04, 04:09 PM
Robin Miller said on WindTunnel that Richard Childress offerd PT a ride for the NASCAR race at Sonoma this weekend. Robin goes on to say Forsythe said no way.
Why would Forsythe not want to bring some exposure to ChampCars? This would have generated as much or more press than the trading paint deal!
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4845
Wheel-Nut
06-23-04, 04:24 PM
That's what I get for showing up to work after lunch!
Thanks
I would really like to see Paul run in a good car. I think he could do well, heck, I know he could! I have mixed feelings about this. Tracy could no doubt bring a Canadian company into NASCAR racing, and be set to run until he was in his mid 50's. The guy puts fans in the seat. So as a Champcar fan, I dont want him to open the pandora's box of the France controlled world (and I dont think they would do him any favors anyway) He would for sure be a guy to break down barriers for Way Northerners to get into TinTops.
On the other hand...... it would do Champcar good service for Paul to show just how great of a racer he is. He got snubbed from the "IROC" series. NASCAR is just like the IROC series, just with a couple of more cars!
A cameo would be cool, and I dont fear Paul Tracy jumping to NASCAR
Its an easy lesson, one that Champ Car should have learned a long time ago:
It is a waste of time to market Champ Cars to a NASCAR crowd, plain and simple. Were NASCAR crowds and viewers attracted to the EARL since it races at many NASCAR venues? Absolutely not. Now tell me with a straight face that it will happen with a Canadian Champ Car driver doing a one-off in one NASCAR race.
Railbird
06-23-04, 08:43 PM
I'm still gonna bang that drum for PR.
Do you realize how many folks (casual fans, not Nascar hardcores) think that CART/Champcar is out of business? Does anybody think tape delayed events on Spike will change that perception?
Give PT a shot and make sure someone mentions he is the defending Champ of an ongoing series.
If PT wanted to be in Nascar right now I don't think he would have a hard time finding a seat so I see no need to worry about the effects of a one-off with him.
Madmaxfan2
06-23-04, 08:53 PM
NO mistake has been made here. The goobers of NASCAR will wreck him, and do anything to make Tracy look bed. I remember a story that Dale Earnhardt Senior feared Little Al, and efforts were made to make sure that in the lone Daytona 500 he competed that he did not have a good car. AJ got by with it because AJ at that time was no nonsense guy who would slug you if he thought he was wronged, and NASCAR was just a fledling series compared to the USAC Championship trail. AJ was king. Mario cetainly humbled them in 67 at Daytona too, and that was remembered too. Gerry Forseyth knows how ambushes get started. Paul just wanted to compete and show em, but it doesn't work that way in NASCAR today.
This ain't the 60's and 70's anymore....
It's not like we'd want the golden years of racing back... that'd be a horrible thing!!
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